| This is Brexit on 18:44 - Jan 19 with 1056 views | 1885_SFC |
| This is Brexit on 16:34 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
Well said, allsaint.
Brexit will and has divided the Union.
The Scottish people voted to remain part of the union when we were part of the EU,now we have left (the majority there voted to remain) we have handed the SNP the perfect argument to be independent.
N. Ireland feel cut off and will consider the for and against an united Ireland.
As people have said we now have to get on with it, but its the young I feel for tho. |
We might have handed the Scots a perfect argument for independence - but they won't be getting another vote anytime soon. And even if they had another vote, there's no clear evidence that the next result would be any different. |  |
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| This is Brexit on 18:53 - Jan 19 with 1043 views | grumpy |
| This is Brexit on 18:44 - Jan 19 by 1885_SFC |
We might have handed the Scots a perfect argument for independence - but they won't be getting another vote anytime soon. And even if they had another vote, there's no clear evidence that the next result would be any different. |
I think the majority that voted to remain in the EU should be evidence enough. |  | | |
| This is Brexit on 19:07 - Jan 19 with 1032 views | 1885_SFC |
| This is Brexit on 18:53 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
I think the majority that voted to remain in the EU should be evidence enough. |
Nobody wants oil anymore. We're all switching to electric cars a decade from now. Besides, the Scots oil revenue issue is/was a farce in the first place. There isn't any revenue.
Sturgeon has said the Navy's nuclear subs can go from Faslane. I don't think she's done her sums on how much money - directly & indirectly - that brings the region and local community.
And then there's the pandemic. An independent Scotland would never have been able to afford the economic support that a United Kingdom has managed thus far.
The Scottish people will see through all of that next time around... just like they did last time. | |
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| This is Brexit on 19:16 - Jan 19 with 1019 views | Saintsforeverj |
| This is Brexit on 19:07 - Jan 19 by 1885_SFC |
Nobody wants oil anymore. We're all switching to electric cars a decade from now. Besides, the Scots oil revenue issue is/was a farce in the first place. There isn't any revenue.
Sturgeon has said the Navy's nuclear subs can go from Faslane. I don't think she's done her sums on how much money - directly & indirectly - that brings the region and local community.
And then there's the pandemic. An independent Scotland would never have been able to afford the economic support that a United Kingdom has managed thus far.
The Scottish people will see through all of that next time around... just like they did last time. |
And what's the point of Scotland leaving the union in order to stay in the EU now that England is out of the EU? Free movement in and out of Scotland would be a bit difficult with England out of bounds. Trade boats would have to travel a long way to reach Scottish shores, without entering our waters. They voted in the Brexit referendum at a time when England was also still part of the EU. Like you say there is no evidence that the Scottish people are so desperate to be part of the EU (that would be very difficult with England no longer a part), that they vote to be independent. And as has been said, the SNP wanted independence before the Brexit vote. It is now a nice excuse. [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 19:19]
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| This is Brexit on 21:15 - Jan 19 with 985 views | grumpy |
| This is Brexit on 19:16 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
And what's the point of Scotland leaving the union in order to stay in the EU now that England is out of the EU? Free movement in and out of Scotland would be a bit difficult with England out of bounds. Trade boats would have to travel a long way to reach Scottish shores, without entering our waters. They voted in the Brexit referendum at a time when England was also still part of the EU. Like you say there is no evidence that the Scottish people are so desperate to be part of the EU (that would be very difficult with England no longer a part), that they vote to be independent. And as has been said, the SNP wanted independence before the Brexit vote. It is now a nice excuse. [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 19:19]
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'Free movement in and out of Scotland would be a bit difficult with England out of bounds'
How will we be out of bounds? | | | |
| This is Brexit on 21:26 - Jan 19 with 976 views | Saintsforeverj |
| This is Brexit on 21:15 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
'Free movement in and out of Scotland would be a bit difficult with England out of bounds'
How will we be out of bounds? |
Erm for example I guess a Polish worker who could freely move to Scotland to work, if Scotland was in the EU, wouldn't be able to enter England to travel there. They could fly direct but it would make it harder for free movement as they wouldn't be able to get into England unless they have the required points. Most economic immigrants come over by ship I would imagine. I suppose they could sail to Scotland, but it would all be much harder. [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 21:29]
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| This is Brexit on 21:33 - Jan 19 with 971 views | grumpy |
| This is Brexit on 21:26 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
Erm for example I guess a Polish worker who could freely move to Scotland to work, if Scotland was in the EU, wouldn't be able to enter England to travel there. They could fly direct but it would make it harder for free movement as they wouldn't be able to get into England unless they have the required points. Most economic immigrants come over by ship I would imagine. I suppose they could sail to Scotland, but it would all be much harder. [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 21:29]
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Are you telling me that a foreign national wouldn't be able to enter England to travel to Scotland? | | | |
| This is Brexit on 21:38 - Jan 19 with 968 views | Saintsforeverj |
| This is Brexit on 21:33 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
Are you telling me that a foreign national wouldn't be able to enter England to travel to Scotland? |
Who knows, but I'm sure we would have great fun watching them all travel up the country with "just passing through" signs. Anyway, we should be watching the football. It's getting nervy now, entering the last 10 minutes. [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 21:41]
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| This is Brexit on 21:40 - Jan 19 with 964 views | grumpy |
| This is Brexit on 21:38 - Jan 19 by Saintsforeverj |
Who knows, but I'm sure we would have great fun watching them all travel up the country with "just passing through" signs. Anyway, we should be watching the football. It's getting nervy now, entering the last 10 minutes. [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 21:41]
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This has just got ridiculous now. | | | |
| This is Brexit on 21:50 - Jan 19 with 955 views | Saintsforeverj |
| This is Brexit on 21:40 - Jan 19 by grumpy |
This has just got ridiculous now. |
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| This is Brexit on 08:08 - Jan 20 with 902 views | Bicester_North |
Were you able to figure out how to cancel a Sky subscription in the end Lauren? [Post edited 20 Jan 2021 8:09]
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| This is Brexit on 11:11 - Jan 20 with 849 views | Bison |
| This is Brexit on 11:10 - Jan 19 by kernow |
Johnson was elected on 40 % of the vote.
If that's democracy it's flawed. |
Was the referendum 'stolen' from you ?
perhaps you should camp outside the Capital building, sorry I mean parliament Square demanding its overturned ?
Sounds familiar that...... |  |
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| This is Brexit on 11:52 - Jan 20 with 823 views | grumpy |
| This is Brexit on 11:11 - Jan 20 by Bison |
Was the referendum 'stolen' from you ?
perhaps you should camp outside the Capital building, sorry I mean parliament Square demanding its overturned ?
Sounds familiar that...... |
To compare the riot at the Capitol Building with the protest in London is ridiculous. | | | |
| This is Brexit on 11:56 - Jan 20 with 818 views | Bison |
| This is Brexit on 11:52 - Jan 20 by grumpy |
To compare the riot at the Capitol Building with the protest in London is ridiculous. |
Its the same underlying sentiment though , one side thought the other side won unfairly and refused to accept the result. | |
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| This is Brexit on 12:38 - Jan 20 with 799 views | kernow |
| This is Brexit on 11:11 - Jan 20 by Bison |
Was the referendum 'stolen' from you ?
perhaps you should camp outside the Capital building, sorry I mean parliament Square demanding its overturned ?
Sounds familiar that...... |
I knew the moment that Cameron called for a referendum that he was going to lose it on a simple majority , so no surprises when it happened and no I didn't like it, but who cares? Tough luck, live with it or bugger off was the general sentiment, which is fair enough.
So from that you might conclude that no, I wouldn't, indeed couldn' t, spare the time effort or money marching in the capital or demonstrating on Parliament Square draped in a flag shouting tired, futile slogans through a megaphone. I' ve only one life and intend to get on with it.
No the referendum wasn't stolen from me. The general election however, like many in my lifetime, was won on a minority of the votes cast. That is the nature of the voting system, which to my mind, is undemocratic but another argument altogether from Brexit. A nfait accompli, with fallout long foreseen by this poster.
At this time Britain is a one party state, an elected dictatorship. I stand by it, democracy is flawed and electoral reform is needed. I won't ever see it though. | | | |
| This is Brexit on 12:44 - Jan 20 with 796 views | Bison |
| This is Brexit on 12:38 - Jan 20 by kernow |
I knew the moment that Cameron called for a referendum that he was going to lose it on a simple majority , so no surprises when it happened and no I didn't like it, but who cares? Tough luck, live with it or bugger off was the general sentiment, which is fair enough.
So from that you might conclude that no, I wouldn't, indeed couldn' t, spare the time effort or money marching in the capital or demonstrating on Parliament Square draped in a flag shouting tired, futile slogans through a megaphone. I' ve only one life and intend to get on with it.
No the referendum wasn't stolen from me. The general election however, like many in my lifetime, was won on a minority of the votes cast. That is the nature of the voting system, which to my mind, is undemocratic but another argument altogether from Brexit. A nfait accompli, with fallout long foreseen by this poster.
At this time Britain is a one party state, an elected dictatorship. I stand by it, democracy is flawed and electoral reform is needed. I won't ever see it though. |
So who should be Prime Minister then ?
one Party got 40% of the vote which is the highest of any party who competed the rest got 60% . So are you saying that the Tories govern for 2 years , Labour get a year and a half , the Lib Dems get a year and the Monster raving looney Party get a Thursday afternoon? | |
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| This is Brexit on 12:50 - Jan 20 with 791 views | kernow |
| This is Brexit on 12:44 - Jan 20 by Bison |
So who should be Prime Minister then ?
one Party got 40% of the vote which is the highest of any party who competed the rest got 60% . So are you saying that the Tories govern for 2 years , Labour get a year and a half , the Lib Dems get a year and the Monster raving looney Party get a Thursday afternoon? |
I don't mind or care.
How about you go for it? | | | |
| This is Brexit on 11:47 - Jan 21 with 727 views | Berber |
| This is Brexit on 11:50 - Jan 19 by dirk_doone |
You are very naive about how and why propaganda campaigns operate. Most elections and referendums are determined by a very small number of swing/undecided voters and they are heavily influenced by well-timed, effective propaganda.
This is a compilation of all of the opinion polls and it is used by government departments:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-on-britains-memb [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 11:53]
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The only problem with this argument, is that for a small proportion of swing voters to have any effect, they has to be a large block of support for the viewpoint anyway, otherwise you have to be talking about large blocks of swing voters, and there the propaganda argument starts to falter. |  | | |
| This is Brexit on 18:22 - Jan 21 with 688 views | dirk_doone |
| This is Brexit on 11:47 - Jan 21 by Berber |
The only problem with this argument, is that for a small proportion of swing voters to have any effect, they has to be a large block of support for the viewpoint anyway, otherwise you have to be talking about large blocks of swing voters, and there the propaganda argument starts to falter. |
You are being a bit obtuse there, Berber. It goes without saying that there were two big blocks of voters on both sides, roughly equal in size. It was the small undecided block, however, which could have swung the referendum in either side's favour and that is fairly typical of most referendums and elections, and, as I said, those are the ones that propagandists target.
As for the argument (not from you) that everybody should always accept the result of a referendum or election without questioning what methods and propaganda were used to influence the vote, you only have to look at what happened after the German federal election of 1933 to see where that can lead. [Post edited 21 Jan 2021 18:31]
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| This is Brexit on 19:03 - Jan 21 with 658 views | Berber |
| This is Brexit on 18:22 - Jan 21 by dirk_doone |
You are being a bit obtuse there, Berber. It goes without saying that there were two big blocks of voters on both sides, roughly equal in size. It was the small undecided block, however, which could have swung the referendum in either side's favour and that is fairly typical of most referendums and elections, and, as I said, those are the ones that propagandists target.
As for the argument (not from you) that everybody should always accept the result of a referendum or election without questioning what methods and propaganda were used to influence the vote, you only have to look at what happened after the German federal election of 1933 to see where that can lead. [Post edited 21 Jan 2021 18:31]
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Point taken. That is something that Cummings latched onto before the Brexit referendum. A small number of people may swing a result one way or another, but who is to say they take any notice of the propaganda? | | | |
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