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Evertons Owner 16:17 - Feb 15 with 4348 viewsButty101

@Solent Toffee - is your owner loading your club with debt? Or is he using his own cash.

Nick constantly referers to your owner and critises his ambition, suggesting hes not really bank rolling it, just lending the club money. The club hasnt progressed etc.

Personally i would assume Everton's fans must be pinching themselves at the ambitions the club have.


Poll: Has the Ross Stewart deal already paid off as Nick says?

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Evertons Owner on 16:37 - Feb 15 with 2312 viewssolent_toffee

I can’t really fault Moshiri in his generosity to be honest. He’s constantly put his hand in his pocket. The only criticism that could be aimed at him is his appointment of managers.

I appreciate Koeman was liked at Saints, but he was dreadful at Everton, backed fantastically by Moshiri, he had a scattergun approach to recruitment and set the club back years with rubbish players on massive contracts. Silva was also a strange appointment not really matching his own ambition although again he backed him financially and his signings were much better than Koeman.

Getting Ancellotti in has been greats far. He’s ruthless and has binned off lots of the dross. All the players he’s bought in so far are quality (James, Doucoure, Allan, Godfrey) and he doesn’t seem to throw money around for the sake of it like his predecessors.

Moshiri has also backed Everton In The Community and is pushing on with the ground move. So yes, it’s all relatively positive and the fans are starting to see progress definitely.
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Evertons Owner on 16:44 - Feb 15 with 2281 viewsSaintsforeverj

Evertons Owner on 16:37 - Feb 15 by solent_toffee

I can’t really fault Moshiri in his generosity to be honest. He’s constantly put his hand in his pocket. The only criticism that could be aimed at him is his appointment of managers.

I appreciate Koeman was liked at Saints, but he was dreadful at Everton, backed fantastically by Moshiri, he had a scattergun approach to recruitment and set the club back years with rubbish players on massive contracts. Silva was also a strange appointment not really matching his own ambition although again he backed him financially and his signings were much better than Koeman.

Getting Ancellotti in has been greats far. He’s ruthless and has binned off lots of the dross. All the players he’s bought in so far are quality (James, Doucoure, Allan, Godfrey) and he doesn’t seem to throw money around for the sake of it like his predecessors.

Moshiri has also backed Everton In The Community and is pushing on with the ground move. So yes, it’s all relatively positive and the fans are starting to see progress definitely.


He sounds like a really ambitious, generous and excellent owner.

Poll: Would you like Ings to come back?

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Evertons Owner on 16:47 - Feb 15 with 2277 viewssaintwizzler

Gao said very early on he would be putting no money in.

Fatting the pig rings a bell.

At least he was up front.

We thought that we had the answers, It was the questions we had wrong.
Poll: Knowing what we know now, should we have sacked Hasenhüttl?

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Evertons Owner on 16:53 - Feb 15 with 2268 viewsRon11

Evertons Owner on 16:44 - Feb 15 by Saintsforeverj

He sounds like a really ambitious, generous and excellent owner.


They do exist then...
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Evertons Owner on 16:55 - Feb 15 with 2262 viewsDorsetIan

When an owner of a business (and bearing in mind that Nick wants Saints to be run as a business) wants to grow a business, it is entirely normal for them to lend money to it, rather than simply donating it. The other common option is for them to put money in in exchange for more share capital. Either way, they are hoping to get their money back (usually at the time of a future sale).

Nick characterises everyone who doesn't share his benevolent view of Gao, as wanting an owner who will 'throw money' at the Club.

He's got that wrong. It's not about having a generous owner who is going to fund our passion with gifts of his own money. It's simply about having an owner who can ensure sensible/necessary investment in the club.

Our current owner doesn't seem able to do that. To coin a phrase, he is 'not fit for purpose'.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

1
Evertons Owner on 16:57 - Feb 15 with 2263 viewsSaintsforeverj

Evertons Owner on 16:53 - Feb 15 by Ron11

They do exist then...


And at Wolves, Villa, Leeds, Leicester, Brighton too, apparently! And even at Burnley, WBA, Fulham with much smaller grounds, their owners have all spent net, more on the team in the last few years than us.
[Post edited 15 Feb 2021 16:58]

Poll: Would you like Ings to come back?

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Evertons Owner on 17:11 - Feb 15 with 2234 viewssolent_toffee

Evertons Owner on 16:44 - Feb 15 by Saintsforeverj

He sounds like a really ambitious, generous and excellent owner.


I’ve literally just received this from the Everton chief executive. Honestly I can’t find fault for how the club conducts itself and the relationship and communication it has with the fans.

Dear
I am writing to provide you with an important update on our plans to deliver a new home for Everton at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Today (Monday, 15 February) we received confirmation that the Liverpool City Council hearing to decide on our planning application for the stadium - and our plans for a legacy project on the site of Goodison Park - will take place next week (Tuesday, 23 February).

The report by the City Council’s Planning Officer, which will be reviewed at the meeting next week, has also been published today.

I am pleased to let you know that the Planning Officer, following a very thorough review of our application, is recommending that the Committee approves our plans.

Our Stadium Director Colin Chong and I will be presenting the Club’s case at the meeting next week to underline how important this stadium is - not only to our football club but also to our city, our region and our country at such an unprecedented time in our history.

If the Planning Committee agree with the recommendations of the report at the meeting next week, then the next step will be for the application to be referred to the Secretary of State - a standard procedure for an application of such scale.

So, as we enter what is a crucial stage in our new stadium project, I would like to thank you for your ongoing support and patience on this journey so far.

As always, I will ensure that you are kept informed with all the relevant updates over the coming weeks — and I know you will be thinking of us and wishing us well at our important meeting with the Council next week.

NSNO

Denise
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Evertons Owner on 17:32 - Feb 15 with 2205 viewskingslandstand1

Evertons Owner on 16:57 - Feb 15 by Saintsforeverj

And at Wolves, Villa, Leeds, Leicester, Brighton too, apparently! And even at Burnley, WBA, Fulham with much smaller grounds, their owners have all spent net, more on the team in the last few years than us.
[Post edited 15 Feb 2021 16:58]


SFJ, as much as we'd love a Moshiri or similar, particularly the Leicester guy (not even going to attempt that spelling!), we ain't gonna get that until Chairman Gao is a bit more realistic with his asking price

Who says he's not? Well he's been trying to sell for a long time now (not as long as the Geordies I know) so the chances are those in the know re the actual value of the club and looking for a buyer, obviously don't think so
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Evertons Owner on 17:40 - Feb 15 with 2185 viewscocklebreath

Evertons Owner on 17:32 - Feb 15 by kingslandstand1

SFJ, as much as we'd love a Moshiri or similar, particularly the Leicester guy (not even going to attempt that spelling!), we ain't gonna get that until Chairman Gao is a bit more realistic with his asking price

Who says he's not? Well he's been trying to sell for a long time now (not as long as the Geordies I know) so the chances are those in the know re the actual value of the club and looking for a buyer, obviously don't think so


When you see how much Burnley went for our price seems more than reasonable

Poll: Who is the biggest c*nt?

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Evertons Owner on 17:52 - Feb 15 with 2171 viewsdirk_doone

Evertons Owner on 17:40 - Feb 15 by cocklebreath

When you see how much Burnley went for our price seems more than reasonable


The problem is that Kat will still be there. New owners want to own 100% of a club. My guess is that, based on how much money she has made already out of the club, even if she does want to sell, she will hold out for a ridiculously high price for her 20%, which will put buyers off.

Poll: Who will win the Premier League this season?

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Evertons Owner on 18:06 - Feb 15 with 2150 viewsDorsetIan

Evertons Owner on 17:52 - Feb 15 by dirk_doone

The problem is that Kat will still be there. New owners want to own 100% of a club. My guess is that, based on how much money she has made already out of the club, even if she does want to sell, she will hold out for a ridiculously high price for her 20%, which will put buyers off.


There's more than likely a 'drag' provision in the arrangement between her and Gao that above a certain sale price, she would be obliged to sell if he does. But what we don't know is what the hurdle for that is.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Evertons Owner on 18:17 - Feb 15 with 2139 viewsSaintsforeverj

Evertons Owner on 17:11 - Feb 15 by solent_toffee

I’ve literally just received this from the Everton chief executive. Honestly I can’t find fault for how the club conducts itself and the relationship and communication it has with the fans.

Dear
I am writing to provide you with an important update on our plans to deliver a new home for Everton at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Today (Monday, 15 February) we received confirmation that the Liverpool City Council hearing to decide on our planning application for the stadium - and our plans for a legacy project on the site of Goodison Park - will take place next week (Tuesday, 23 February).

The report by the City Council’s Planning Officer, which will be reviewed at the meeting next week, has also been published today.

I am pleased to let you know that the Planning Officer, following a very thorough review of our application, is recommending that the Committee approves our plans.

Our Stadium Director Colin Chong and I will be presenting the Club’s case at the meeting next week to underline how important this stadium is - not only to our football club but also to our city, our region and our country at such an unprecedented time in our history.

If the Planning Committee agree with the recommendations of the report at the meeting next week, then the next step will be for the application to be referred to the Secretary of State - a standard procedure for an application of such scale.

So, as we enter what is a crucial stage in our new stadium project, I would like to thank you for your ongoing support and patience on this journey so far.

As always, I will ensure that you are kept informed with all the relevant updates over the coming weeks — and I know you will be thinking of us and wishing us well at our important meeting with the Council next week.

NSNO

Denise


Great to see that Everton are communicating with their fans about an exciting and ambitious project, an owner who is excited about serious future success. It must be very exciting to be an Everton fan. Good luck to you.
[Post edited 15 Feb 2021 18:17]

Poll: Would you like Ings to come back?

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Evertons Owner on 20:13 - Feb 15 with 2042 viewsTripleNiemi

Evertons Owner on 17:52 - Feb 15 by dirk_doone

The problem is that Kat will still be there. New owners want to own 100% of a club. My guess is that, based on how much money she has made already out of the club, even if she does want to sell, she will hold out for a ridiculously high price for her 20%, which will put buyers off.


Would have all been a piece of pīss of pīss had Gao of only bought SFC outright.......mmmmm, wonder why he didn't.........

Is he still alive?

Ready and waiting to mop up those European places......

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Evertons Owner on 22:06 - Feb 15 with 1940 viewsBlue

Evertons Owner on 16:53 - Feb 15 by Ron11

They do exist then...


*cough cough*

Still stood in the Kippax

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Evertons Owner on 22:07 - Feb 15 with 1937 viewsBlue

Evertons Owner on 17:11 - Feb 15 by solent_toffee

I’ve literally just received this from the Everton chief executive. Honestly I can’t find fault for how the club conducts itself and the relationship and communication it has with the fans.

Dear
I am writing to provide you with an important update on our plans to deliver a new home for Everton at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Today (Monday, 15 February) we received confirmation that the Liverpool City Council hearing to decide on our planning application for the stadium - and our plans for a legacy project on the site of Goodison Park - will take place next week (Tuesday, 23 February).

The report by the City Council’s Planning Officer, which will be reviewed at the meeting next week, has also been published today.

I am pleased to let you know that the Planning Officer, following a very thorough review of our application, is recommending that the Committee approves our plans.

Our Stadium Director Colin Chong and I will be presenting the Club’s case at the meeting next week to underline how important this stadium is - not only to our football club but also to our city, our region and our country at such an unprecedented time in our history.

If the Planning Committee agree with the recommendations of the report at the meeting next week, then the next step will be for the application to be referred to the Secretary of State - a standard procedure for an application of such scale.

So, as we enter what is a crucial stage in our new stadium project, I would like to thank you for your ongoing support and patience on this journey so far.

As always, I will ensure that you are kept informed with all the relevant updates over the coming weeks — and I know you will be thinking of us and wishing us well at our important meeting with the Council next week.

NSNO

Denise


That's fantastic news, really pleased for you.

I might even go to an away at Everton again, when you move!

Still stood in the Kippax

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Evertons Owner on 09:45 - Feb 16 with 1796 viewsSaintNick

Evertons Owner on 16:55 - Feb 15 by DorsetIan

When an owner of a business (and bearing in mind that Nick wants Saints to be run as a business) wants to grow a business, it is entirely normal for them to lend money to it, rather than simply donating it. The other common option is for them to put money in in exchange for more share capital. Either way, they are hoping to get their money back (usually at the time of a future sale).

Nick characterises everyone who doesn't share his benevolent view of Gao, as wanting an owner who will 'throw money' at the Club.

He's got that wrong. It's not about having a generous owner who is going to fund our passion with gifts of his own money. It's simply about having an owner who can ensure sensible/necessary investment in the club.

Our current owner doesn't seem able to do that. To coin a phrase, he is 'not fit for purpose'.


You are quite right Ian I agree with your views here, it is entirely normal for owners to put money in as a loan and it is also common for them to write off that loan at some stage or exchange it for share capital.

I dont have a benevolent view of Gao, I just have an understanding of what has happened since he bought the club, from speaking to a lot of Saints supporters both via social media and in day to day life I find that most don't understand this, they just see an owner as putting his own money in they don't consider that it has to be paid back.

There is nothing wrong with that, most fans I know aren't interested in the finances they just want the team to do well.

So you are perhaps characterising supporters, you clearly understand money more than the average supporter and you are right it is about having an owner who can ensure sensible/neccessary investment into the club.

But what is neccessary investment ? using Everton as the example they have averaged around £90-95 million of player transfer fees in each of the last 5 summers since Moshiri too over, his stated aim was Champions League and to challenge Liverpool, his first season saw them finish 7th, 4 places higher than they finished the previous year, so he spent £100 million to move up 4 places earning around £8 million in Premier League prize money, good business ?

Since then he has spent nearly £500 million, most of which as you say will be either loaned to the club or share capital etc to see the club drop to 7th, 7th & last season 12th and now sit 7th.

At this moment in time no one knows whether Moshiri will turn out to be a good owner or a millionaire using the club as his plaything and at some stage he will leave and then they will find out after all he left Arsenal why would he not leave Everton. I believe he only owns 70% of the club so the money is probably not buying share capital it is a loan, a quick google shows that after buying his shareholding he loaned the club £104 million to repay debts'

Solent Toffee is right he has invested in local community projects etc and is planning to build a new stadium, but he has interfered with the management, to blame Koeman or poor signings is not entirely true, there was one stage when Everton bought 3 players in the same position including Wayne Rooney, only one signing was wanted by Koeman.

So you clearly understand football clubs and the way they run , but then you try to skew this view of the club and Gao by calling him not fit for purpose.

You are right Gao currently cannot get money out of China and into the club, this is not his fault shortly after he joined China changed it's policy in investing in Western sport, you conveniently forget to mention this to give the impression he either doesn't want to or hasn't got the money.

So yes perhaps he is not fit for purpose, but he is not doing us any wrong, it's common knowledge that he will step aside if the right offer comes in, but it is not his fault if the right offer doesn't come along, he is only looking to recuperate his outlay, so is not being unreasonable.

There is not a queue of potential owners out there, I see some fans demanding an owner that has an affinity with the club and city, it's dreamworld.

Gao to his credit is not trying to get his money out of the club, he could have taken some out last summer when we sold Hojbjerg but he put it back into the club to buy KWP, Diallo & Salisu.

So you say Gao is not fit for purpose as the club he is running are mid table and in a good position in the FA Cup, a couple of weeks ago neck and neck with Everton who have an owner who is fit for purpose because he has bought all these player, but the club owe him most of this money in one way or another.

I don't particularly think Gao is a great owner for Saints, but he is not a bad one in that he has done us no harm, we are not loaded with debt, we can run as a business without his financial input and we can compete.

Moshiri is finding out that it is not just a question of spending money and success will come, hopefully he will not lose interest and decide to stop funding them, because if he does then they will struggle to pay the wage bill.

We could have used Burnley as an example in this thread, a club that a month or so ago were free from debt and seen as well run, now they are American Owned and the club has a loan it now needs to repay secured against the ground taken out by the new owners to get their money back.

We have to be careful what we wish for, investing in a football club outside of what is the Big Six is a sure fire way to throw away money

Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime

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Evertons Owner on 10:18 - Feb 16 with 1777 viewsDorsetIan

Evertons Owner on 09:45 - Feb 16 by SaintNick

You are quite right Ian I agree with your views here, it is entirely normal for owners to put money in as a loan and it is also common for them to write off that loan at some stage or exchange it for share capital.

I dont have a benevolent view of Gao, I just have an understanding of what has happened since he bought the club, from speaking to a lot of Saints supporters both via social media and in day to day life I find that most don't understand this, they just see an owner as putting his own money in they don't consider that it has to be paid back.

There is nothing wrong with that, most fans I know aren't interested in the finances they just want the team to do well.

So you are perhaps characterising supporters, you clearly understand money more than the average supporter and you are right it is about having an owner who can ensure sensible/neccessary investment into the club.

But what is neccessary investment ? using Everton as the example they have averaged around £90-95 million of player transfer fees in each of the last 5 summers since Moshiri too over, his stated aim was Champions League and to challenge Liverpool, his first season saw them finish 7th, 4 places higher than they finished the previous year, so he spent £100 million to move up 4 places earning around £8 million in Premier League prize money, good business ?

Since then he has spent nearly £500 million, most of which as you say will be either loaned to the club or share capital etc to see the club drop to 7th, 7th & last season 12th and now sit 7th.

At this moment in time no one knows whether Moshiri will turn out to be a good owner or a millionaire using the club as his plaything and at some stage he will leave and then they will find out after all he left Arsenal why would he not leave Everton. I believe he only owns 70% of the club so the money is probably not buying share capital it is a loan, a quick google shows that after buying his shareholding he loaned the club £104 million to repay debts'

Solent Toffee is right he has invested in local community projects etc and is planning to build a new stadium, but he has interfered with the management, to blame Koeman or poor signings is not entirely true, there was one stage when Everton bought 3 players in the same position including Wayne Rooney, only one signing was wanted by Koeman.

So you clearly understand football clubs and the way they run , but then you try to skew this view of the club and Gao by calling him not fit for purpose.

You are right Gao currently cannot get money out of China and into the club, this is not his fault shortly after he joined China changed it's policy in investing in Western sport, you conveniently forget to mention this to give the impression he either doesn't want to or hasn't got the money.

So yes perhaps he is not fit for purpose, but he is not doing us any wrong, it's common knowledge that he will step aside if the right offer comes in, but it is not his fault if the right offer doesn't come along, he is only looking to recuperate his outlay, so is not being unreasonable.

There is not a queue of potential owners out there, I see some fans demanding an owner that has an affinity with the club and city, it's dreamworld.

Gao to his credit is not trying to get his money out of the club, he could have taken some out last summer when we sold Hojbjerg but he put it back into the club to buy KWP, Diallo & Salisu.

So you say Gao is not fit for purpose as the club he is running are mid table and in a good position in the FA Cup, a couple of weeks ago neck and neck with Everton who have an owner who is fit for purpose because he has bought all these player, but the club owe him most of this money in one way or another.

I don't particularly think Gao is a great owner for Saints, but he is not a bad one in that he has done us no harm, we are not loaded with debt, we can run as a business without his financial input and we can compete.

Moshiri is finding out that it is not just a question of spending money and success will come, hopefully he will not lose interest and decide to stop funding them, because if he does then they will struggle to pay the wage bill.

We could have used Burnley as an example in this thread, a club that a month or so ago were free from debt and seen as well run, now they are American Owned and the club has a loan it now needs to repay secured against the ground taken out by the new owners to get their money back.

We have to be careful what we wish for, investing in a football club outside of what is the Big Six is a sure fire way to throw away money


Thanks Nick. It's odd that we seem to be at logggerheads when it comes to Gao and yet when we get down to the basic points we perhaps agree on a lot of things about him.

If I'm being honest, I think it's your repeated statement that Gao has done us no harm that winds me up.

I take the point that he hasn't done us harm to the extent that he hasn't asset stripped, nor has he geared up and gone on a mad spending spreed which will come back to bankrupt us in the future. And I can also take the point that maybe this isn't his fault personally - because his hands were tied by the Chinese govt changing their policy on getting money out.

So I'll say that 'the period of Gao's ownership' has done us harm, rather than Gao personally.

But you'll not persuade me that the period of Gao's ownership has not done us harm. To me, there is very direct link between the cumulative effect of very very little transfer activity in recent years, the failure to strengthen (particularly in areas where cover is/was obviously needed), the decline in the overall qualify of the squad beyond the first 11, and the inconsistent (and sometimes absolutely disastrous) performances on the pitch. Injuries and bad decisions don't help, but you have to look at things in the round and, to me, the obvious problem is a lack of strength in depth - and that's down to a lack of investment in the team.

That's really all I'm saying: under this owner, it seems obvious to me that investment in the team has not matched what is needed. And that's why I say he isn't 'fit for purpose'.

When Nigel Clough was doing well at Burton he's only ambition in terms of improving the team was to finish at least one place higher each season. Not promotion, not play-offs, just doing better than last year. Incremental increases. Seems like that should be the reasonable hope of every fan. And I don't feel like that's happening at Saints under Gao's ownership.

But anyway, I am going to declare a truce. If you still think Gao has done us no harm and you want to keep using that phrase in your pieces, then I am not going to contradict you from now on. Hopefully you can accept that those of us with the opposite view are not all chasing rainbows. It would be a boring forum if we all agreed.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Evertons Owner on 10:57 - Feb 16 with 1759 viewsSaintNick

Evertons Owner on 10:18 - Feb 16 by DorsetIan

Thanks Nick. It's odd that we seem to be at logggerheads when it comes to Gao and yet when we get down to the basic points we perhaps agree on a lot of things about him.

If I'm being honest, I think it's your repeated statement that Gao has done us no harm that winds me up.

I take the point that he hasn't done us harm to the extent that he hasn't asset stripped, nor has he geared up and gone on a mad spending spreed which will come back to bankrupt us in the future. And I can also take the point that maybe this isn't his fault personally - because his hands were tied by the Chinese govt changing their policy on getting money out.

So I'll say that 'the period of Gao's ownership' has done us harm, rather than Gao personally.

But you'll not persuade me that the period of Gao's ownership has not done us harm. To me, there is very direct link between the cumulative effect of very very little transfer activity in recent years, the failure to strengthen (particularly in areas where cover is/was obviously needed), the decline in the overall qualify of the squad beyond the first 11, and the inconsistent (and sometimes absolutely disastrous) performances on the pitch. Injuries and bad decisions don't help, but you have to look at things in the round and, to me, the obvious problem is a lack of strength in depth - and that's down to a lack of investment in the team.

That's really all I'm saying: under this owner, it seems obvious to me that investment in the team has not matched what is needed. And that's why I say he isn't 'fit for purpose'.

When Nigel Clough was doing well at Burton he's only ambition in terms of improving the team was to finish at least one place higher each season. Not promotion, not play-offs, just doing better than last year. Incremental increases. Seems like that should be the reasonable hope of every fan. And I don't feel like that's happening at Saints under Gao's ownership.

But anyway, I am going to declare a truce. If you still think Gao has done us no harm and you want to keep using that phrase in your pieces, then I am not going to contradict you from now on. Hopefully you can accept that those of us with the opposite view are not all chasing rainbows. It would be a boring forum if we all agreed.


I always respect opinions, I just like to challenge them and it is good when people look at their opinion and think about it, sometimes change it but if not respect others.

I agree with you that the team needs investment, but to say the period of Gao's ownership has not seen us move forward is wrong.

He joined in August 2017 to a club in turmoil a new manager who was not up to it, and a central defender in Virgil Van Dijk who wanted away , we stood up to him and that was probably a mistake, but we tried to show the fans that the club wouldnt roll over.

But we did invest, Carrillo in the january for £20 million then another £50 million in the summer most funded from the sale of Van Dijk

The problem wasn't the investment it was who we bought.

Since then we have been sidled with poor signings like Lemina & Elyounoussi on big wages etc, we didn't have the money for wages

Since late 2018 things have started to change out went Krueger and Reed and in came new men and since then things are improving.

Gaos first full season saw us in 16th after recovering from a poor start under Mark Hughes, last season saw us finish 11th and this season we are still just 5 points from the top 10 and still in with a chance .

You say under Gao you dont see the improvement each season, with respect you haven't looked at the League tables then because it is there in black & white.

The problem is yes we need to improve the depth of the squad, the issue for the last few years is that we have had to pay players like Bouffal emina& Elyounoussi etc to play elsewhere, if they had knuckled down and shown they could play we would have a squad with real depth, but their recruitment has cost us dearly we cant afford to be paying them and a player to relace them of the same quality.

Now we are starting to get them of the books comes the problem, no one in football has any money, this January no one could afford to spend any money only 20 players joined Premier League clubs only 1 or 2 for transfer fees.

So we have to deal with the situation we have not just historically with the loaned out players but the fact we have no income from supporters in the gate and the knock on affect with sponsorship and advertising dropping.

Hopefully this summer we will be able to buy in players in key positions to bolster the squad, when everyone is fit we have 18 experienced pros and half a dozen promising youngsters, if we get to 20 experienced pros that is probably the right balance for a club our size to run on.

This season though we have to just bite the bullet, we can't invest because no one is investing, but we have made two good loan signings and the two players we signed last the summer look to be good signings, so things are bright.

So yes we agree that there should be investment in the team, but there are reasons for that, the legacy of poor signings under an old management and the financial crisis in football at the moment.

In the summer we like every other club will have debt due to that crisis, but we have battened down the hatches whilst some like Spurs have borrowed £170 million from the government as they believed that this season would be back to normal by Xmas and now that has cost them a lot of income.

Look around and you will see what is happening, Liverpool are having similar problems to us, in normal times they would have bought a big signing in, they got a centre half from Preston for 2 million.

My feeling is that we have to just take this season for what it is, we tread water, but come next season we might just be in a stronger position than many

Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime

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Evertons Owner on 11:20 - Feb 16 with 1751 viewsDorsetIan

Evertons Owner on 10:57 - Feb 16 by SaintNick

I always respect opinions, I just like to challenge them and it is good when people look at their opinion and think about it, sometimes change it but if not respect others.

I agree with you that the team needs investment, but to say the period of Gao's ownership has not seen us move forward is wrong.

He joined in August 2017 to a club in turmoil a new manager who was not up to it, and a central defender in Virgil Van Dijk who wanted away , we stood up to him and that was probably a mistake, but we tried to show the fans that the club wouldnt roll over.

But we did invest, Carrillo in the january for £20 million then another £50 million in the summer most funded from the sale of Van Dijk

The problem wasn't the investment it was who we bought.

Since then we have been sidled with poor signings like Lemina & Elyounoussi on big wages etc, we didn't have the money for wages

Since late 2018 things have started to change out went Krueger and Reed and in came new men and since then things are improving.

Gaos first full season saw us in 16th after recovering from a poor start under Mark Hughes, last season saw us finish 11th and this season we are still just 5 points from the top 10 and still in with a chance .

You say under Gao you dont see the improvement each season, with respect you haven't looked at the League tables then because it is there in black & white.

The problem is yes we need to improve the depth of the squad, the issue for the last few years is that we have had to pay players like Bouffal emina& Elyounoussi etc to play elsewhere, if they had knuckled down and shown they could play we would have a squad with real depth, but their recruitment has cost us dearly we cant afford to be paying them and a player to relace them of the same quality.

Now we are starting to get them of the books comes the problem, no one in football has any money, this January no one could afford to spend any money only 20 players joined Premier League clubs only 1 or 2 for transfer fees.

So we have to deal with the situation we have not just historically with the loaned out players but the fact we have no income from supporters in the gate and the knock on affect with sponsorship and advertising dropping.

Hopefully this summer we will be able to buy in players in key positions to bolster the squad, when everyone is fit we have 18 experienced pros and half a dozen promising youngsters, if we get to 20 experienced pros that is probably the right balance for a club our size to run on.

This season though we have to just bite the bullet, we can't invest because no one is investing, but we have made two good loan signings and the two players we signed last the summer look to be good signings, so things are bright.

So yes we agree that there should be investment in the team, but there are reasons for that, the legacy of poor signings under an old management and the financial crisis in football at the moment.

In the summer we like every other club will have debt due to that crisis, but we have battened down the hatches whilst some like Spurs have borrowed £170 million from the government as they believed that this season would be back to normal by Xmas and now that has cost them a lot of income.

Look around and you will see what is happening, Liverpool are having similar problems to us, in normal times they would have bought a big signing in, they got a centre half from Preston for 2 million.

My feeling is that we have to just take this season for what it is, we tread water, but come next season we might just be in a stronger position than many


I hear all that, but I look at the state of our bench and, for example, the fact that we are relying on someone as ineffective as Djenepo as one of our most experienced players. And I'm sorry but the quality of our squad has fallen off a cliff. That's down to underinvestment and that's why we are so inconsistent.

Points lost from winning positions; 9-0; 6 on the bounce - the long term reason is the same in every case. Squad too weak.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Evertons Owner on 11:30 - Feb 16 with 1745 viewsSaintNick

Evertons Owner on 11:20 - Feb 16 by DorsetIan

I hear all that, but I look at the state of our bench and, for example, the fact that we are relying on someone as ineffective as Djenepo as one of our most experienced players. And I'm sorry but the quality of our squad has fallen off a cliff. That's down to underinvestment and that's why we are so inconsistent.

Points lost from winning positions; 9-0; 6 on the bounce - the long term reason is the same in every case. Squad too weak.


I think we are reaching the position where we have to agree to disagree, the squad is weak at he moment because it has so many injuries, for it to have still put out a strong bench over the last month we would have needed to have had 25 experienced professionals on the books and we can't do that both from a financial point of view and the fact that we cant keep 12 players happy when they are not playing.

Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime

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Evertons Owner on 13:48 - Feb 16 with 1708 viewsDorsetIan

Evertons Owner on 11:30 - Feb 16 by SaintNick

I think we are reaching the position where we have to agree to disagree, the squad is weak at he moment because it has so many injuries, for it to have still put out a strong bench over the last month we would have needed to have had 25 experienced professionals on the books and we can't do that both from a financial point of view and the fact that we cant keep 12 players happy when they are not playing.


It's not just injuries. Look at the bench on Saturday. Apart from Forster, our only 'experienced' premier league players were Adams, Stephens and Djenepo and there are questions marks over the latter two as to whether they are good enough for the premier league. Salisu there too - and he looks OK, but only on the basis of one game.

Who was injured? Walcott - experienced player. Diallo - looks good but hardly any experience. Obafemi - has never really impressed.

The rest were academy players.

But if you think it's a strong squad, I can agree to differ on that.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Evertons Owner on 21:40 - Feb 16 with 1633 viewsSaintNick

Evertons Owner on 13:48 - Feb 16 by DorsetIan

It's not just injuries. Look at the bench on Saturday. Apart from Forster, our only 'experienced' premier league players were Adams, Stephens and Djenepo and there are questions marks over the latter two as to whether they are good enough for the premier league. Salisu there too - and he looks OK, but only on the basis of one game.

Who was injured? Walcott - experienced player. Diallo - looks good but hardly any experience. Obafemi - has never really impressed.

The rest were academy players.

But if you think it's a strong squad, I can agree to differ on that.


I didnt say it was a strong squad, I said it was a work in progress and we needed about two players just when most fit we can put out a decent squad.

A bench of Salisu, Diallo, Adams, Stephens &Walcott is experienced albeit the first two have mostly played abroad, add the likes of Obafemi & Valery who have performed in the Premier League. just not consistently then Smalbone & Vokins who are promising and Tella, N'Lundulu, Watts & Jankewitz who are rated as having potential and as I say without any injuries it has the just about enough.

As a squad we are two short, probably four when Minamino goes back and assuming Walcott didn't sign.

As I said there are extenuating circumstances as to why we are short, hopefully by the summer we will find out if Valery & Vokins have what it takes., we will get a big earner or two off the books and continue rebuilding

Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime

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Evertons Owner on 22:32 - Feb 16 with 1607 viewsDorsetIan

Evertons Owner on 21:40 - Feb 16 by SaintNick

I didnt say it was a strong squad, I said it was a work in progress and we needed about two players just when most fit we can put out a decent squad.

A bench of Salisu, Diallo, Adams, Stephens &Walcott is experienced albeit the first two have mostly played abroad, add the likes of Obafemi & Valery who have performed in the Premier League. just not consistently then Smalbone & Vokins who are promising and Tella, N'Lundulu, Watts & Jankewitz who are rated as having potential and as I say without any injuries it has the just about enough.

As a squad we are two short, probably four when Minamino goes back and assuming Walcott didn't sign.

As I said there are extenuating circumstances as to why we are short, hopefully by the summer we will find out if Valery & Vokins have what it takes., we will get a big earner or two off the books and continue rebuilding


Fair play for your optimism.

Work in progress hopefully, but currently weak is my point.

Personally I think Stephens, Djenepo, Obafemi and Valery are not going to improve enough to make the grade for us. And they've all had enough chances already.

Salisu, Diallo and Adams look the part and should keep improving.

Jury's still out for me on Tella, N'Lundulu, Watts, Jankewitz, Ramsay, Vokins and Smallbone. But, yes, if a couple of them turn out to be good player things will be looking rosier.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Evertons Owner on 23:05 - Feb 16 with 1602 views1885_SFC

Spurs in the brown stuff & having to sell a star or two...

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2021/02/16/tottenham-could-be-forced-into-selling-

Old School is Cool

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Evertons Owner on 07:18 - Feb 17 with 1571 viewssolent_toffee

Evertons Owner on 09:45 - Feb 16 by SaintNick

You are quite right Ian I agree with your views here, it is entirely normal for owners to put money in as a loan and it is also common for them to write off that loan at some stage or exchange it for share capital.

I dont have a benevolent view of Gao, I just have an understanding of what has happened since he bought the club, from speaking to a lot of Saints supporters both via social media and in day to day life I find that most don't understand this, they just see an owner as putting his own money in they don't consider that it has to be paid back.

There is nothing wrong with that, most fans I know aren't interested in the finances they just want the team to do well.

So you are perhaps characterising supporters, you clearly understand money more than the average supporter and you are right it is about having an owner who can ensure sensible/neccessary investment into the club.

But what is neccessary investment ? using Everton as the example they have averaged around £90-95 million of player transfer fees in each of the last 5 summers since Moshiri too over, his stated aim was Champions League and to challenge Liverpool, his first season saw them finish 7th, 4 places higher than they finished the previous year, so he spent £100 million to move up 4 places earning around £8 million in Premier League prize money, good business ?

Since then he has spent nearly £500 million, most of which as you say will be either loaned to the club or share capital etc to see the club drop to 7th, 7th & last season 12th and now sit 7th.

At this moment in time no one knows whether Moshiri will turn out to be a good owner or a millionaire using the club as his plaything and at some stage he will leave and then they will find out after all he left Arsenal why would he not leave Everton. I believe he only owns 70% of the club so the money is probably not buying share capital it is a loan, a quick google shows that after buying his shareholding he loaned the club £104 million to repay debts'

Solent Toffee is right he has invested in local community projects etc and is planning to build a new stadium, but he has interfered with the management, to blame Koeman or poor signings is not entirely true, there was one stage when Everton bought 3 players in the same position including Wayne Rooney, only one signing was wanted by Koeman.

So you clearly understand football clubs and the way they run , but then you try to skew this view of the club and Gao by calling him not fit for purpose.

You are right Gao currently cannot get money out of China and into the club, this is not his fault shortly after he joined China changed it's policy in investing in Western sport, you conveniently forget to mention this to give the impression he either doesn't want to or hasn't got the money.

So yes perhaps he is not fit for purpose, but he is not doing us any wrong, it's common knowledge that he will step aside if the right offer comes in, but it is not his fault if the right offer doesn't come along, he is only looking to recuperate his outlay, so is not being unreasonable.

There is not a queue of potential owners out there, I see some fans demanding an owner that has an affinity with the club and city, it's dreamworld.

Gao to his credit is not trying to get his money out of the club, he could have taken some out last summer when we sold Hojbjerg but he put it back into the club to buy KWP, Diallo & Salisu.

So you say Gao is not fit for purpose as the club he is running are mid table and in a good position in the FA Cup, a couple of weeks ago neck and neck with Everton who have an owner who is fit for purpose because he has bought all these player, but the club owe him most of this money in one way or another.

I don't particularly think Gao is a great owner for Saints, but he is not a bad one in that he has done us no harm, we are not loaded with debt, we can run as a business without his financial input and we can compete.

Moshiri is finding out that it is not just a question of spending money and success will come, hopefully he will not lose interest and decide to stop funding them, because if he does then they will struggle to pay the wage bill.

We could have used Burnley as an example in this thread, a club that a month or so ago were free from debt and seen as well run, now they are American Owned and the club has a loan it now needs to repay secured against the ground taken out by the new owners to get their money back.

We have to be careful what we wish for, investing in a football club outside of what is the Big Six is a sure fire way to throw away money


I think we have very different opinions of Koeman’s tenure at Everton. The signing of four players in exactly the same position using the Lukaku money and not getting a striker whilst playing DCL at right back and having Niasse train with the under-23’s was on Koeman, although Walsh was partly to blame for the recruitment as it was joint enterprise with Koeman.

Moshiri’s mistake was not going big to get a manager better than Koeman, to match is own ambition. Instead he went for the flavour of the day. When he sacked Koeman it was the right thing to do but his appointment of Allardyce was knee jerk and unnecessary.

Silva was another Koeman, if not at least he looked like he cared and was interested.

Ancelotti is the the type of appointment he should have gone for when he got Koeman. There might be a few bumps in the round during these weird times but they are on the right path and most Evertonians are very optimistic about the future.

It’s a strange one in modern times, but Everton are probably one of a handful of clubs whose supporters trust the owners and the board to run the club.
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