| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread 15:02 - Oct 24 with 90784 views | kingsburyR |
(Delete if someone has already started one)
First away game of the season for me, the wife and my youngest daughter.
I haven't travelled to see a loss.
Mighty R's to win 3-1
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| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 00:13 - Oct 26 with 2210 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 19:04 - Oct 25 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Well, according to Clive, part of the reason Stephan got the job was how he'd cope with three-game weeks... [Post edited 25 Oct 19:04]
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That's already worn well then! |  |
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| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 04:36 - Oct 26 with 2004 views | QPROslo |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 21:23 - Oct 25 by BrianMcCarthy |
Naturally. I completely agree, Oslo.
Advantage to Derby.
But we played on Wednesday and then again on Saturday.
Teams have coped with that for decades.
And the only thing I was wondering about was this: we didn't tire in a way that tired teams do - as the game wore on.
We were chasing shadows from the off.
That's why I'm wondering if the problem was mental - lack of belief, lack of focus, lack of effort, lack of cohesion, lack of care, who knows.
But we were off it from the off.
edit - tidied up the grammar. [Post edited 25 Oct 21:30]
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It didn't help that Vale was very poor again and rightly hooked at HT, should have been earlier. Kone, Frey, and Dembele all had poor games too for me. I did think Varane was better than he has been, improved as the game went on and managed a couple of decent forward passes. Chair looked lively when he came on but faded quickly, but he's probably not 100% fit yet. |  | | |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 06:08 - Oct 26 with 1925 views | NorthantsHoop |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 04:36 - Oct 26 by QPROslo |
It didn't help that Vale was very poor again and rightly hooked at HT, should have been earlier. Kone, Frey, and Dembele all had poor games too for me. I did think Varane was better than he has been, improved as the game went on and managed a couple of decent forward passes. Chair looked lively when he came on but faded quickly, but he's probably not 100% fit yet. |
Yep agree, also thought far too much of our play was held up down the right in 1st half, when Norrington- Davies and Saito were being much more effective down the left, there were massive gaps to be exploited on the left. Thought we struggled with Derby's no.7 and no.18 all game, especially in the 1st half. In a way the performance looked laboured i.e. we got the 3 points at Swansea and sort of see how we go at Derby and if get a draw that would be Ok type of performance. |  | | |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 06:19 - Oct 26 with 1879 views | nix |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 04:36 - Oct 26 by QPROslo |
It didn't help that Vale was very poor again and rightly hooked at HT, should have been earlier. Kone, Frey, and Dembele all had poor games too for me. I did think Varane was better than he has been, improved as the game went on and managed a couple of decent forward passes. Chair looked lively when he came on but faded quickly, but he's probably not 100% fit yet. |
I agree Vale was poor again. I understand he’s learning to play in a much more physical, pressurised kind of match than he’s used to but it’s also something Stephan needs to adapt to: what are his horses for courses. Also I was completely mystified by the Dembele sub. The game was crying out for Smyth’s ratting, annoying in-your-face kind of play rather than Dembele’s flashes of genius but too lax with the ball and lesser than physical presence. Alternatively bring Morgan on: what he brings is intensity and energy which we could desperately have done with given how limp our overall display was.
I think Kone maybe needs a break. He looks absolutely knackered. He gets an absolute battering day in day out. Madsen also looked tired but a week’s break should help that plus Chair coming on to provide some creativity.
Burrell also needs to adapt to the Championship. You have better defenders and less time on the ball so you need to make the most of good opportunities. He had two golden chances: one when he was in acres of space on the right hand side near the half way line and he just hesitated for a couple of seconds before taking off with the ball which are the fine margins that allow their defenders to get back in time. The other was on the left just outside the penalty area in the first half when someone did a run, space opened up and he inexplicably turned back and passed behind him. Not slagging him off as I think he was one of our best players yesterday but noting some things he could improve on that are perfectly understandable given his lack of experience at this level.
I think Eustace outthought us yesterday. He managed to neutralise our strengths. It was also a demonstration of how to play inexperienced referees. How often did they win dubious free kicks while under pressure by screaming every time we did any kind of tackle. One in particular near us in our left hand corner by the penalty area where the huge blond fella went down screaming while under pressure, won a very soft free kick and turned to us and gave a massive grin. They were pushing us and holding on to our shirts but they did it much more subtly and really he was going to let a lot go in front of a massive home crowd.
It was also a demonstration of how you can’t be too ‘nice’ in football whether you like it or not because other teams will just use it against you. There are such fine margins between teams in terms of quality so it doesn’t take much to gain a competitive advantage. Playing the ref is one of those ways teams do it, we can’t be the only team that doesn’t. |  | | |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 06:39 - Oct 26 with 1841 views | Rsole |
“I think Eustace outthought us yesterday. He managed to neutralise our strengths” Nix.
….yes, he certainly did. He out QPR’d us with the directness and they made the most of their physicality and experience with the ref.
I’m ok with Dembele as a sub, but if he’s not going to cross with his right foot from the right wing, stick him on the left. Same with Smyth, just swap them over.
Madsen could have stayed on and I don’t think swapping him for Chair was the right move. He could have played Chair on the left and kept Madsen on. Frey for Kone just killed it off. Game was drying out for someone like Kollli.
Not a great watch all round.
Edited to make it clearer that I was concurring and replying to you, Nix. [Post edited 26 Oct 8:58]
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| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 07:49 - Oct 26 with 1722 views | CamberleyR |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 21:35 - Oct 25 by BushRanger82 |
A lot of people are banging on about us having played 3 games this week, and how we look tired and jaded.
Didn't Derby play 3 games this week as well, then?
How come they didn't look tired or jaded? |
1. They had 24 hours extra recovery time.
2. In midweek, they were playing at home and not doing a 450 mile round trip like we did. [Post edited 26 Oct 7:50]
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| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 09:07 - Oct 26 with 1557 views | davman |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 06:19 - Oct 26 by nix |
I agree Vale was poor again. I understand he’s learning to play in a much more physical, pressurised kind of match than he’s used to but it’s also something Stephan needs to adapt to: what are his horses for courses. Also I was completely mystified by the Dembele sub. The game was crying out for Smyth’s ratting, annoying in-your-face kind of play rather than Dembele’s flashes of genius but too lax with the ball and lesser than physical presence. Alternatively bring Morgan on: what he brings is intensity and energy which we could desperately have done with given how limp our overall display was.
I think Kone maybe needs a break. He looks absolutely knackered. He gets an absolute battering day in day out. Madsen also looked tired but a week’s break should help that plus Chair coming on to provide some creativity.
Burrell also needs to adapt to the Championship. You have better defenders and less time on the ball so you need to make the most of good opportunities. He had two golden chances: one when he was in acres of space on the right hand side near the half way line and he just hesitated for a couple of seconds before taking off with the ball which are the fine margins that allow their defenders to get back in time. The other was on the left just outside the penalty area in the first half when someone did a run, space opened up and he inexplicably turned back and passed behind him. Not slagging him off as I think he was one of our best players yesterday but noting some things he could improve on that are perfectly understandable given his lack of experience at this level.
I think Eustace outthought us yesterday. He managed to neutralise our strengths. It was also a demonstration of how to play inexperienced referees. How often did they win dubious free kicks while under pressure by screaming every time we did any kind of tackle. One in particular near us in our left hand corner by the penalty area where the huge blond fella went down screaming while under pressure, won a very soft free kick and turned to us and gave a massive grin. They were pushing us and holding on to our shirts but they did it much more subtly and really he was going to let a lot go in front of a massive home crowd.
It was also a demonstration of how you can’t be too ‘nice’ in football whether you like it or not because other teams will just use it against you. There are such fine margins between teams in terms of quality so it doesn’t take much to gain a competitive advantage. Playing the ref is one of those ways teams do it, we can’t be the only team that doesn’t. |
That's one view, but the simple version is that they wanted it more than we did. We lost individual battles all over the pitch, notably up front where Kone was anonymous not for the first time this week.
Ball retention remains a massive issue with this team and that creativity to break down a low block is just not there.
I di not buy "Kone needs a rest". He is what he is; a young man stepping up and needs to learn. He is cursed with a languid run that makes it look like he is not putting a shift in, but overall he WILL come good.
Burrell's choices when free were very limited because of the lack of movement in front and around him.
For me, the GK lost that game (again) - they weren't going to score another - but the missed opportunity is around our full backs. Esquidinha would have been best suited to that game and Dunne is having a poor season so far.
They played well, but we let them by standing off; cimpare the space and time they had to what we had.
.. and Varane. How Hayden was dropped for him I will never know. That £5m offer will look more tempting in January if he carries on like this. Poor. |  |
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| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 09:48 - Oct 26 with 1463 views | SW_Ranger |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 07:49 - Oct 26 by CamberleyR |
1. They had 24 hours extra recovery time.
2. In midweek, they were playing at home and not doing a 450 mile round trip like we did. [Post edited 26 Oct 7:50]
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Interestingly, three of the four teams that played away on Weds had to travel away AGAIN on Saturday. Only Oxford got anything, ‘boro could only get a draw at home. A quick look at the fans comments and plenty of fans for the four teams were calling them out for lack of energy and creativity. All were, obviously, playing teams with an extra days rest.
JS is right, we have a young squad - some of who are tasting their first full season in this competitive and physical league as well; then take on three-game week. I think it got to our boys. Derby (Eustace) played a good game and let us (tiredly) play inefficiently with the ball with over 60% possession. One mistake from Nardi was enough to lose. We were poor and a spark could have changed it, sadly … no spark.
A week to go again. We rest and come back to fight another day. |  | | |
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| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 09:53 - Oct 26 with 1451 views | OldPedro |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 06:19 - Oct 26 by nix |
I agree Vale was poor again. I understand he’s learning to play in a much more physical, pressurised kind of match than he’s used to but it’s also something Stephan needs to adapt to: what are his horses for courses. Also I was completely mystified by the Dembele sub. The game was crying out for Smyth’s ratting, annoying in-your-face kind of play rather than Dembele’s flashes of genius but too lax with the ball and lesser than physical presence. Alternatively bring Morgan on: what he brings is intensity and energy which we could desperately have done with given how limp our overall display was.
I think Kone maybe needs a break. He looks absolutely knackered. He gets an absolute battering day in day out. Madsen also looked tired but a week’s break should help that plus Chair coming on to provide some creativity.
Burrell also needs to adapt to the Championship. You have better defenders and less time on the ball so you need to make the most of good opportunities. He had two golden chances: one when he was in acres of space on the right hand side near the half way line and he just hesitated for a couple of seconds before taking off with the ball which are the fine margins that allow their defenders to get back in time. The other was on the left just outside the penalty area in the first half when someone did a run, space opened up and he inexplicably turned back and passed behind him. Not slagging him off as I think he was one of our best players yesterday but noting some things he could improve on that are perfectly understandable given his lack of experience at this level.
I think Eustace outthought us yesterday. He managed to neutralise our strengths. It was also a demonstration of how to play inexperienced referees. How often did they win dubious free kicks while under pressure by screaming every time we did any kind of tackle. One in particular near us in our left hand corner by the penalty area where the huge blond fella went down screaming while under pressure, won a very soft free kick and turned to us and gave a massive grin. They were pushing us and holding on to our shirts but they did it much more subtly and really he was going to let a lot go in front of a massive home crowd.
It was also a demonstration of how you can’t be too ‘nice’ in football whether you like it or not because other teams will just use it against you. There are such fine margins between teams in terms of quality so it doesn’t take much to gain a competitive advantage. Playing the ref is one of those ways teams do it, we can’t be the only team that doesn’t. |
Agree with all of this especially the bit about the ref. There was another occassion where the ball was played forward to towards the left corner and the defender just hauled Saito down about 15 yards from the ball, nothing given. In the 2nd half, the Nardi collected the ball and looked to release it quickly, the Derby number 6 basically shoulder charged him in the chest flooring Nardi. Ref did give a free kick, but it should have also been a yellow card, but none shown. Derby defender just jogged back with a big grin on his face.
The game reminded me of West Brom away last season where we went a goal behind and the home side just set about wasting time and taking people out knowing the ref wasn't up to it.
And the whole episode with Carlton Morris being subbed, ref told him to go off at the side of the pitch, Morris walked off and handed the armband over, then walked back on and despite then getting a yellow card, walked slowly across the whole pitch, high-fiving his teammates and wasting a load of time which surprise, surprise, didn't get added back on. |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 10:20 - Oct 26 with 1383 views | mart_Goblin |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 09:53 - Oct 26 by OldPedro |
Agree with all of this especially the bit about the ref. There was another occassion where the ball was played forward to towards the left corner and the defender just hauled Saito down about 15 yards from the ball, nothing given. In the 2nd half, the Nardi collected the ball and looked to release it quickly, the Derby number 6 basically shoulder charged him in the chest flooring Nardi. Ref did give a free kick, but it should have also been a yellow card, but none shown. Derby defender just jogged back with a big grin on his face.
The game reminded me of West Brom away last season where we went a goal behind and the home side just set about wasting time and taking people out knowing the ref wasn't up to it.
And the whole episode with Carlton Morris being subbed, ref told him to go off at the side of the pitch, Morris walked off and handed the armband over, then walked back on and despite then getting a yellow card, walked slowly across the whole pitch, high-fiving his teammates and wasting a load of time which surprise, surprise, didn't get added back on. |
That whole episode with Morris took 1 minute 40 seconds . I counted it as I couldn’t believe how long it was taking them to do everything yet only 5 minutes had been added . There were other delays in injury time too but of course he only added 45 seconds .
Don’t get me wrong, we were awful yesterday and could still be playing now and wouldn’t have scored. We didn’t lose because of the ref .
But he was incredibly weak yesterday . The shoulder charge on Nardi with no card when Burrell was left one on one if Nardi had released it, left me fuming .
But our players continually fell into their trap . Don’t give the ref a decision to make .
I said I felt uncomfortable with what Cook did on Wednesday , but then called myself hypocritical as I often call us too naive , and yesterday was a case in point .
Read the room. He was giving everything Derbys way (it seemed , probably not completely accurate but he did let them get away with anything they wanted in that second half especially ) so don’t go charging in . So many times we look so inexperienced.
They have to learn quick because they were given a bit of a lesson yesterday in more ways than one . |  | | |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 13:20 - Oct 26 with 1089 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Ramming up the M1 - Match Thread on 09:48 - Oct 26 by SW_Ranger |
Interestingly, three of the four teams that played away on Weds had to travel away AGAIN on Saturday. Only Oxford got anything, ‘boro could only get a draw at home. A quick look at the fans comments and plenty of fans for the four teams were calling them out for lack of energy and creativity. All were, obviously, playing teams with an extra days rest.
JS is right, we have a young squad - some of who are tasting their first full season in this competitive and physical league as well; then take on three-game week. I think it got to our boys. Derby (Eustace) played a good game and let us (tiredly) play inefficiently with the ball with over 60% possession. One mistake from Nardi was enough to lose. We were poor and a spark could have changed it, sadly … no spark.
A week to go again. We rest and come back to fight another day. |
I am surprised that the likes of Esquerdinha, Morgan and Kolli aren't getting more game time if we are supposedly knackered. Kolli wasn't even in the squad yesterday even though Frey has looked desperately off the pace this season.
Stephan is a C/C- so far for me. Started badly, recovered well but is making some odd calls. [Post edited 26 Oct 13:24]
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