| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? 10:20 - Jan 31 with 4142 views | johnlangy |
I was wondering if anyone would post this. But no-one did so I will.
Since they started talking about the Metro the only reference i've seen as to the cost is £2 billion. Then, all of a sudden last week Walesonline started referring to it as the £5 billion Metro. Estimates of developments like this invariably end up costing far more than originally suggested so any bets as to the eventual cost of this almost purely Cardiff benefiting scheme ? I'll start the ball rolling and suggest double ie £10 billion.
And, on a slightly smaller scale, were any of you aware that the WAG was in the process of getting a Welsh ICC (International Convention Centre) built ? Given that it's virtually impossible to get WAG funding for developments in Swansea (a measly £20 million toward what is going to be the biggest redevelopment of Swansea for 70 years - if it happens at all that is) aren't you amazed, proud even, that our WAG is going to have a 50% stake in this development by investing £42 million of our money in this single scheme at Celtic Manor.
Isn't it amazing that, given the pace at which things happen in Swansea, this Welsh ICC is not going to happen next year or 2019 or 2020 but is actually going start next month.
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 10:57 - Jan 31 with 3519 views | Landore_Jack |
Celtic Manor Resort chair Sir Terry Matthews said: "This International Convention Centre has been many years in the planning and I am delighted that we are now in a position to build and deliver this facility that will be such an asset to Wales."
"In the past, we've been forced to turn away hundreds of millions of pounds of business because we did not have the capacity to hold the largest conferences. Not any longer." |  |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 11:30 - Jan 31 with 3467 views | CopperJack |
You are, of course, right. But nothing will ever change. I've been meaning to post this for a while, an email I drafted to Ken Skates -
I live in Swansea and, despite being a 'Remainer', I am friends and colleagues with many people for whom a growing economy and internationalisation has not made a single scrap of difference to their lives. Indeed, the Brexit vote was a reminder that the disparity in our society is growing ever-more acute, and this manifest in a 'Leave' vote in the election. A cursory glance at the map of remainers and brexiters in Wales further illustrates this point, with the most affluent areas in Wales, such as Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan, voting to stay, whilst others, who feel let down by successive governments (both here, and in Westminster) voted out.
I'm not writing to discuss Brexit, but rather, what it portrayed; investment has been centralised far too long. Since devolution, Cardiff has received an astoundingly disproportionate amount of public investment. When these points are raised with Welsh Labour, we are repeatedly told 'We love Swansea, we built a museum there (EU funds), bus station there (EU funds), the Bay Campus (EU funds) and Morriston Hospital's expansion'. The only thing, that I'm aware has been solely funded by the Welsh Government, is the expansion of Morriston Hospital and, whilst vital, I think you'll agree has hardly helped improve Swansea's economy or acted as a beacon for tourism.
Investment in Cardiff has been plentiful and has led to growing resentment across the city, and across Wales I'm sure. The government has spent billions on Cardiff Bay, St Davids, the Millenium Centre, the new City Deal that has been promised for Cardiff (£500m of Welsh public money), along with vanity projects like paying £15m for Cardiff to host the Ashes, whilst outlandishly claiming that it's 'Good for Wales'. I'm sure very few businesses outside of Cardiff benefitted from this.
It's not just the big capital expenditures; it's the way that the government repeatedly goes above and beyond to attract global, well- paying firms to Cardiff with financial incentives. I have attached a few examples of such instances:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/new-financial-services-compa
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/deloitte-opens-new-delivery-
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/story/2014-02-17/pinewood-to-create-film-studio-in
What the Welsh Government has essentially done, is create an economic bubble in the capital - similar to policies of the UK Conservative Government which is often lamented this side of the bridge. Had these jobs been encouraged into other Welsh cities, like Swansea, then they would've encouraged people to live there, work there, buy houses there, and improve the economy there. But, sadly, this opportunity is always missed.
Swansea city centre is on the cusp of hopefully being regenerated, but where is the hundreds of millions that was spent on Cardiff's centre? The Welsh Government stopped spending money in SA1 about a decade ago - how can this be when the mere upkeep of Cardiff Bay costs near £20m pa? How can the Welsh Government afford to spend £500m on backing a city deal for the most affluent area of the country, when an economically deprived second-city stagnates? If these policies were enacted with England being the beneficiary, then uproar would ensue.
The sad thing about this is that, it's challenging Welsh Labour's stronghold of Wales. Yes, you've always been in government, and many argue, always will be. But, with Labour being wiped out in Scotland, threatened in the North of England by the accession of the working-class leader of UKIP, can you really afford to take Wales for granted, like it has been for so many years? If good jobs had been distributed around the country, would cities like my own have voted out? I think not.
In doubt this email will make a difference, but I felt like I needed to say something. Wales needs a distribution of wealth; and Labour needs to display it's the party of the working class.
Response -
Thank you for your email of 10th December to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure regarding investment and the economy in Wales. I have been asked to reply. The Welsh Government has set out its priorities in Taking Wales Forward. It is committed to delivering more and better jobs, through a stronger and fairer economy and working with a broad range of partners to take the whole of Wales forward.
Agreeing the Cardiff Capital Region City Deal was crucial to unlocking city deals in other parts of Wales. City Deals provide an opportunity for local partnerships to identify the opportunities for economic growth and to work with the Welsh and UK Governments to unlock those opportunities. The Welsh Government is supportive of the proposals in the Swansea Bay Region and is committed to providing support for the Deal. The Welsh Government is working with local partners to determine exactly what form that support should take. The final shape of the Deal depends also on the UK Government, but the Welsh Government is confident that the emerging Deal is one that it can support.
The Welsh Government has offered financial support to Swansea Council in respect of its regeneration proposals for the St. David’s and Civic Centre regeneration proposals in the City Centre, and officials are currently discussing the detailed delivery plans with officers of the Council. The regeneration of Swansea city centre is one of the key pillars of the City Region Board’s vision for the future of the region. This is highlighted in the Board’s City Deal proposal submitted to the UK Government in February 2016, which emphasises the need to 11 January 2017 deliver an improved commercial, residential and leisure offer in the region’s capital as part of the wider strategic approach. The Welsh Government has also continued to invest in the SA1 Swansea Waterfront Regeneration project since the late 1990's. To date, it has invested around £23m that has seen the former brownfield dockland site transformed into a modern mixed use development on the gateway to the city of Swansea. This has seen the development of new high quality residential homes; grade A office space, a new campus for the University of Wales Trinity St. David and other developments for the benefit of the local and wider community.
My response -
Richard,
In your email you referenced the £23m that the Welsh Government has spent on the SA1 development. To put this value into context, the Welsh Labour Party spent more on the Wales Millenium Centre, which is one project, than the entire regeneration of an area - which has substantially slowed down following the drying up of this investment, and, indeed, the failure of Welsh Labour to make good on its promise to create a second marina in the SA1 development. The Welsh Government spends £20m per annum merely maintaining Cardiff Bay; how can a figure of £23m be a source of pride for Welsh Labour?
Regarding Welsh Labour's commitment to the Swansea Bay City Deal, I was wondering whether you could elaborate on what sort of support this bid shall receive? The Cardiff City region bid received roughly £500m in Welsh tax payer money (not including the billions which the government has spent on St Davids, Cardiff Bay, the Millenium Centre, bringing the Ashes to Cardiff, offering favourable rates and financial incentives to companies to open businesses in Cardiff etc), so I was wondering whether the Swansea Bay City Deal could expect similar financial backing?
None of the points I mentioned have really been addressed. Since devolution, Cardiff has seen a vastly disproportionate amount of investment, in much the same way Welsh Labour laments the Tory Government for doing in the south-east of England. What is the current Welsh Government doing except for centralising wealth in a Conservative-styled economic policy? Surely, the flaw in this economic plan became abundantly clear when the Brexit vote happened, illustrating the disparity between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' in Welsh society?
Small investments into road building schemes, or £23m spent on an entire area is a drop in the ocean for what Wales' second city needs to survive and thrive if we are not to become a city state. With Labour becoming marginalised across the UK and voted out of Swansea West for the first time in 100 years during the General Election, can Welsh Labour really afford to neglect areas like Swansea any more?
Can Welsh Labour honestly not see the folly of continuing to encourage companies to open offices with well-paying jobs in already-affluent Cardiff, whilst areas like Swansea continue to get the low-paying, dead-end jobs that just continue to create a cycle of poverty and austerity?
Sadly, I doubt my email will make a difference, and I fear that Welsh Labour will continue to enact the policies it so abhors when conducted by the Tories, but I long for the day that the government promotes genuine equality across Wales, where wealth and investment can be distributed to the areas that are most in need. | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:29 - Jan 31 with 3373 views | johnlangy |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 11:30 - Jan 31 by CopperJack |
You are, of course, right. But nothing will ever change. I've been meaning to post this for a while, an email I drafted to Ken Skates -
I live in Swansea and, despite being a 'Remainer', I am friends and colleagues with many people for whom a growing economy and internationalisation has not made a single scrap of difference to their lives. Indeed, the Brexit vote was a reminder that the disparity in our society is growing ever-more acute, and this manifest in a 'Leave' vote in the election. A cursory glance at the map of remainers and brexiters in Wales further illustrates this point, with the most affluent areas in Wales, such as Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan, voting to stay, whilst others, who feel let down by successive governments (both here, and in Westminster) voted out.
I'm not writing to discuss Brexit, but rather, what it portrayed; investment has been centralised far too long. Since devolution, Cardiff has received an astoundingly disproportionate amount of public investment. When these points are raised with Welsh Labour, we are repeatedly told 'We love Swansea, we built a museum there (EU funds), bus station there (EU funds), the Bay Campus (EU funds) and Morriston Hospital's expansion'. The only thing, that I'm aware has been solely funded by the Welsh Government, is the expansion of Morriston Hospital and, whilst vital, I think you'll agree has hardly helped improve Swansea's economy or acted as a beacon for tourism.
Investment in Cardiff has been plentiful and has led to growing resentment across the city, and across Wales I'm sure. The government has spent billions on Cardiff Bay, St Davids, the Millenium Centre, the new City Deal that has been promised for Cardiff (£500m of Welsh public money), along with vanity projects like paying £15m for Cardiff to host the Ashes, whilst outlandishly claiming that it's 'Good for Wales'. I'm sure very few businesses outside of Cardiff benefitted from this.
It's not just the big capital expenditures; it's the way that the government repeatedly goes above and beyond to attract global, well- paying firms to Cardiff with financial incentives. I have attached a few examples of such instances:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/new-financial-services-compa
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/deloitte-opens-new-delivery-
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/story/2014-02-17/pinewood-to-create-film-studio-in
What the Welsh Government has essentially done, is create an economic bubble in the capital - similar to policies of the UK Conservative Government which is often lamented this side of the bridge. Had these jobs been encouraged into other Welsh cities, like Swansea, then they would've encouraged people to live there, work there, buy houses there, and improve the economy there. But, sadly, this opportunity is always missed.
Swansea city centre is on the cusp of hopefully being regenerated, but where is the hundreds of millions that was spent on Cardiff's centre? The Welsh Government stopped spending money in SA1 about a decade ago - how can this be when the mere upkeep of Cardiff Bay costs near £20m pa? How can the Welsh Government afford to spend £500m on backing a city deal for the most affluent area of the country, when an economically deprived second-city stagnates? If these policies were enacted with England being the beneficiary, then uproar would ensue.
The sad thing about this is that, it's challenging Welsh Labour's stronghold of Wales. Yes, you've always been in government, and many argue, always will be. But, with Labour being wiped out in Scotland, threatened in the North of England by the accession of the working-class leader of UKIP, can you really afford to take Wales for granted, like it has been for so many years? If good jobs had been distributed around the country, would cities like my own have voted out? I think not.
In doubt this email will make a difference, but I felt like I needed to say something. Wales needs a distribution of wealth; and Labour needs to display it's the party of the working class.
Response -
Thank you for your email of 10th December to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure regarding investment and the economy in Wales. I have been asked to reply. The Welsh Government has set out its priorities in Taking Wales Forward. It is committed to delivering more and better jobs, through a stronger and fairer economy and working with a broad range of partners to take the whole of Wales forward.
Agreeing the Cardiff Capital Region City Deal was crucial to unlocking city deals in other parts of Wales. City Deals provide an opportunity for local partnerships to identify the opportunities for economic growth and to work with the Welsh and UK Governments to unlock those opportunities. The Welsh Government is supportive of the proposals in the Swansea Bay Region and is committed to providing support for the Deal. The Welsh Government is working with local partners to determine exactly what form that support should take. The final shape of the Deal depends also on the UK Government, but the Welsh Government is confident that the emerging Deal is one that it can support.
The Welsh Government has offered financial support to Swansea Council in respect of its regeneration proposals for the St. David’s and Civic Centre regeneration proposals in the City Centre, and officials are currently discussing the detailed delivery plans with officers of the Council. The regeneration of Swansea city centre is one of the key pillars of the City Region Board’s vision for the future of the region. This is highlighted in the Board’s City Deal proposal submitted to the UK Government in February 2016, which emphasises the need to 11 January 2017 deliver an improved commercial, residential and leisure offer in the region’s capital as part of the wider strategic approach. The Welsh Government has also continued to invest in the SA1 Swansea Waterfront Regeneration project since the late 1990's. To date, it has invested around £23m that has seen the former brownfield dockland site transformed into a modern mixed use development on the gateway to the city of Swansea. This has seen the development of new high quality residential homes; grade A office space, a new campus for the University of Wales Trinity St. David and other developments for the benefit of the local and wider community.
My response -
Richard,
In your email you referenced the £23m that the Welsh Government has spent on the SA1 development. To put this value into context, the Welsh Labour Party spent more on the Wales Millenium Centre, which is one project, than the entire regeneration of an area - which has substantially slowed down following the drying up of this investment, and, indeed, the failure of Welsh Labour to make good on its promise to create a second marina in the SA1 development. The Welsh Government spends £20m per annum merely maintaining Cardiff Bay; how can a figure of £23m be a source of pride for Welsh Labour?
Regarding Welsh Labour's commitment to the Swansea Bay City Deal, I was wondering whether you could elaborate on what sort of support this bid shall receive? The Cardiff City region bid received roughly £500m in Welsh tax payer money (not including the billions which the government has spent on St Davids, Cardiff Bay, the Millenium Centre, bringing the Ashes to Cardiff, offering favourable rates and financial incentives to companies to open businesses in Cardiff etc), so I was wondering whether the Swansea Bay City Deal could expect similar financial backing?
None of the points I mentioned have really been addressed. Since devolution, Cardiff has seen a vastly disproportionate amount of investment, in much the same way Welsh Labour laments the Tory Government for doing in the south-east of England. What is the current Welsh Government doing except for centralising wealth in a Conservative-styled economic policy? Surely, the flaw in this economic plan became abundantly clear when the Brexit vote happened, illustrating the disparity between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' in Welsh society?
Small investments into road building schemes, or £23m spent on an entire area is a drop in the ocean for what Wales' second city needs to survive and thrive if we are not to become a city state. With Labour becoming marginalised across the UK and voted out of Swansea West for the first time in 100 years during the General Election, can Welsh Labour really afford to neglect areas like Swansea any more?
Can Welsh Labour honestly not see the folly of continuing to encourage companies to open offices with well-paying jobs in already-affluent Cardiff, whilst areas like Swansea continue to get the low-paying, dead-end jobs that just continue to create a cycle of poverty and austerity?
Sadly, I doubt my email will make a difference, and I fear that Welsh Labour will continue to enact the policies it so abhors when conducted by the Tories, but I long for the day that the government promotes genuine equality across Wales, where wealth and investment can be distributed to the areas that are most in need. |
VERY well said CJ. Unfortunately, they (Welsh Labour) can argue that they are doing a great job governing ALL of Wales, including Swansea, because people continue to vote them in.
I really don't understand it. The points you make and that I and many others have made in the past re the disparity in investment are so blindingly obvious, the results of which can be read daily in Walesonline and other places, that I can't understand why Labour voters continue to vote for them.
It's incredibly sad that The Party of Wales is not considered a serious enough party for Welsh people to elect. | | | |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:55 - Jan 31 with 3338 views | union_jack |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:29 - Jan 31 by johnlangy |
VERY well said CJ. Unfortunately, they (Welsh Labour) can argue that they are doing a great job governing ALL of Wales, including Swansea, because people continue to vote them in.
I really don't understand it. The points you make and that I and many others have made in the past re the disparity in investment are so blindingly obvious, the results of which can be read daily in Walesonline and other places, that I can't understand why Labour voters continue to vote for them.
It's incredibly sad that The Party of Wales is not considered a serious enough party for Welsh people to elect. |
Agreed. Fantastic post by CopperJack.
Maybe our citizens should get their placards out and rage, rage against our own regime rather than what Trump is doing. Sounds sensible to me. |  |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:31 - Jan 31 with 3302 views | waynekerr55 |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:55 - Jan 31 by union_jack |
Agreed. Fantastic post by CopperJack.
Maybe our citizens should get their placards out and rage, rage against our own regime rather than what Trump is doing. Sounds sensible to me. |
But, but, but - Labour care about Wales. They give us free prescriptions, init!
You could put a traffic cone up for election and the idiots would still vote them in. |  |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:34 - Jan 31 with 3298 views | trampie |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 11:30 - Jan 31 by CopperJack |
You are, of course, right. But nothing will ever change. I've been meaning to post this for a while, an email I drafted to Ken Skates -
I live in Swansea and, despite being a 'Remainer', I am friends and colleagues with many people for whom a growing economy and internationalisation has not made a single scrap of difference to their lives. Indeed, the Brexit vote was a reminder that the disparity in our society is growing ever-more acute, and this manifest in a 'Leave' vote in the election. A cursory glance at the map of remainers and brexiters in Wales further illustrates this point, with the most affluent areas in Wales, such as Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan, voting to stay, whilst others, who feel let down by successive governments (both here, and in Westminster) voted out.
I'm not writing to discuss Brexit, but rather, what it portrayed; investment has been centralised far too long. Since devolution, Cardiff has received an astoundingly disproportionate amount of public investment. When these points are raised with Welsh Labour, we are repeatedly told 'We love Swansea, we built a museum there (EU funds), bus station there (EU funds), the Bay Campus (EU funds) and Morriston Hospital's expansion'. The only thing, that I'm aware has been solely funded by the Welsh Government, is the expansion of Morriston Hospital and, whilst vital, I think you'll agree has hardly helped improve Swansea's economy or acted as a beacon for tourism.
Investment in Cardiff has been plentiful and has led to growing resentment across the city, and across Wales I'm sure. The government has spent billions on Cardiff Bay, St Davids, the Millenium Centre, the new City Deal that has been promised for Cardiff (£500m of Welsh public money), along with vanity projects like paying £15m for Cardiff to host the Ashes, whilst outlandishly claiming that it's 'Good for Wales'. I'm sure very few businesses outside of Cardiff benefitted from this.
It's not just the big capital expenditures; it's the way that the government repeatedly goes above and beyond to attract global, well- paying firms to Cardiff with financial incentives. I have attached a few examples of such instances:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/new-financial-services-compa
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/deloitte-opens-new-delivery-
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/story/2014-02-17/pinewood-to-create-film-studio-in
What the Welsh Government has essentially done, is create an economic bubble in the capital - similar to policies of the UK Conservative Government which is often lamented this side of the bridge. Had these jobs been encouraged into other Welsh cities, like Swansea, then they would've encouraged people to live there, work there, buy houses there, and improve the economy there. But, sadly, this opportunity is always missed.
Swansea city centre is on the cusp of hopefully being regenerated, but where is the hundreds of millions that was spent on Cardiff's centre? The Welsh Government stopped spending money in SA1 about a decade ago - how can this be when the mere upkeep of Cardiff Bay costs near £20m pa? How can the Welsh Government afford to spend £500m on backing a city deal for the most affluent area of the country, when an economically deprived second-city stagnates? If these policies were enacted with England being the beneficiary, then uproar would ensue.
The sad thing about this is that, it's challenging Welsh Labour's stronghold of Wales. Yes, you've always been in government, and many argue, always will be. But, with Labour being wiped out in Scotland, threatened in the North of England by the accession of the working-class leader of UKIP, can you really afford to take Wales for granted, like it has been for so many years? If good jobs had been distributed around the country, would cities like my own have voted out? I think not.
In doubt this email will make a difference, but I felt like I needed to say something. Wales needs a distribution of wealth; and Labour needs to display it's the party of the working class.
Response -
Thank you for your email of 10th December to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure regarding investment and the economy in Wales. I have been asked to reply. The Welsh Government has set out its priorities in Taking Wales Forward. It is committed to delivering more and better jobs, through a stronger and fairer economy and working with a broad range of partners to take the whole of Wales forward.
Agreeing the Cardiff Capital Region City Deal was crucial to unlocking city deals in other parts of Wales. City Deals provide an opportunity for local partnerships to identify the opportunities for economic growth and to work with the Welsh and UK Governments to unlock those opportunities. The Welsh Government is supportive of the proposals in the Swansea Bay Region and is committed to providing support for the Deal. The Welsh Government is working with local partners to determine exactly what form that support should take. The final shape of the Deal depends also on the UK Government, but the Welsh Government is confident that the emerging Deal is one that it can support.
The Welsh Government has offered financial support to Swansea Council in respect of its regeneration proposals for the St. David’s and Civic Centre regeneration proposals in the City Centre, and officials are currently discussing the detailed delivery plans with officers of the Council. The regeneration of Swansea city centre is one of the key pillars of the City Region Board’s vision for the future of the region. This is highlighted in the Board’s City Deal proposal submitted to the UK Government in February 2016, which emphasises the need to 11 January 2017 deliver an improved commercial, residential and leisure offer in the region’s capital as part of the wider strategic approach. The Welsh Government has also continued to invest in the SA1 Swansea Waterfront Regeneration project since the late 1990's. To date, it has invested around £23m that has seen the former brownfield dockland site transformed into a modern mixed use development on the gateway to the city of Swansea. This has seen the development of new high quality residential homes; grade A office space, a new campus for the University of Wales Trinity St. David and other developments for the benefit of the local and wider community.
My response -
Richard,
In your email you referenced the £23m that the Welsh Government has spent on the SA1 development. To put this value into context, the Welsh Labour Party spent more on the Wales Millenium Centre, which is one project, than the entire regeneration of an area - which has substantially slowed down following the drying up of this investment, and, indeed, the failure of Welsh Labour to make good on its promise to create a second marina in the SA1 development. The Welsh Government spends £20m per annum merely maintaining Cardiff Bay; how can a figure of £23m be a source of pride for Welsh Labour?
Regarding Welsh Labour's commitment to the Swansea Bay City Deal, I was wondering whether you could elaborate on what sort of support this bid shall receive? The Cardiff City region bid received roughly £500m in Welsh tax payer money (not including the billions which the government has spent on St Davids, Cardiff Bay, the Millenium Centre, bringing the Ashes to Cardiff, offering favourable rates and financial incentives to companies to open businesses in Cardiff etc), so I was wondering whether the Swansea Bay City Deal could expect similar financial backing?
None of the points I mentioned have really been addressed. Since devolution, Cardiff has seen a vastly disproportionate amount of investment, in much the same way Welsh Labour laments the Tory Government for doing in the south-east of England. What is the current Welsh Government doing except for centralising wealth in a Conservative-styled economic policy? Surely, the flaw in this economic plan became abundantly clear when the Brexit vote happened, illustrating the disparity between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' in Welsh society?
Small investments into road building schemes, or £23m spent on an entire area is a drop in the ocean for what Wales' second city needs to survive and thrive if we are not to become a city state. With Labour becoming marginalised across the UK and voted out of Swansea West for the first time in 100 years during the General Election, can Welsh Labour really afford to neglect areas like Swansea any more?
Can Welsh Labour honestly not see the folly of continuing to encourage companies to open offices with well-paying jobs in already-affluent Cardiff, whilst areas like Swansea continue to get the low-paying, dead-end jobs that just continue to create a cycle of poverty and austerity?
Sadly, I doubt my email will make a difference, and I fear that Welsh Labour will continue to enact the policies it so abhors when conducted by the Tories, but I long for the day that the government promotes genuine equality across Wales, where wealth and investment can be distributed to the areas that are most in need. |
Lets cut to the chase here butt, why don't you vote Plaid and encourage others to do so ???
I'm not a member or know anybody involved with them or have Porthcawl to do with them but their policies are for investment across Wales unlike the unionist parties who are all to varying degrees centralist. |  |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:42 - Jan 31 with 3286 views | union_jack |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:34 - Jan 31 by trampie |
Lets cut to the chase here butt, why don't you vote Plaid and encourage others to do so ???
I'm not a member or know anybody involved with them or have Porthcawl to do with them but their policies are for investment across Wales unlike the unionist parties who are all to varying degrees centralist. |
And what do you think is the main underlying agenda of Plaid then Trampie? | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:46 - Jan 31 with 3277 views | trampie |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:42 - Jan 31 by union_jack |
And what do you think is the main underlying agenda of Plaid then Trampie? |
They want what's best for all of Wales not just regional capitals or London. | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:51 - Jan 31 with 3268 views | Lord_Bony |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:42 - Jan 31 by union_jack |
And what do you think is the main underlying agenda of Plaid then Trampie? |
The agenda is the same as all parties...
https://goo.gl/images/ePO96Y
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 16:07 - Jan 31 with 3247 views | trampie |
There are good and bad politicians and people in all parties but Plaid don't fit the profile of all parties whether historically or now.
Look at their leader who has not accepted pay rises, leaders pay etc who lives in the same ordinary street as she was brought up in, who catches public transport to work, she used to catch the bus. | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 17:02 - Jan 31 with 3208 views | johnlangy |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:42 - Jan 31 by union_jack |
And what do you think is the main underlying agenda of Plaid then Trampie? |
I'm presuming from your question that you are referring to independence UJ. If i'm wrong then apologies.
If you are then why are you diverting the thread from it's original argument. It was about fairness of investment. Nothing to do with anything else. If you agree that investment should be fairly spread around Wales then give us your thoughts on how that might be achieved.
By the way Trampie, i'm a Plaid member. | | | |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 17:21 - Jan 31 with 3195 views | union_jack |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 17:02 - Jan 31 by johnlangy |
I'm presuming from your question that you are referring to independence UJ. If i'm wrong then apologies.
If you are then why are you diverting the thread from it's original argument. It was about fairness of investment. Nothing to do with anything else. If you agree that investment should be fairly spread around Wales then give us your thoughts on how that might be achieved.
By the way Trampie, i'm a Plaid member. |
You are indeed correct. And I'm 'diverting' the thread because Trampie asked why we don't vote for Plaid.
They could build me and everybody else a house out of gold but not at the expense of independence. I think it's a relevant reply. | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 17:47 - Jan 31 with 3178 views | trampie |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 17:02 - Jan 31 by johnlangy |
I'm presuming from your question that you are referring to independence UJ. If i'm wrong then apologies.
If you are then why are you diverting the thread from it's original argument. It was about fairness of investment. Nothing to do with anything else. If you agree that investment should be fairly spread around Wales then give us your thoughts on how that might be achieved.
By the way Trampie, i'm a Plaid member. |
People can vote for who they like, if they want to vote for GSTQ, union jack waving capitalist right wing parties that is their choice, I know that the establishment and press are disingenuous towards Plaid, but it is the internet age now, propaganda from state education and state media can be challenged and bypassed via the worldwide web.
Why do people moan about Labour in Cardiff and the Conservatives in London not fairly allocating money and resources around the country and then when they have a party like Plaid who would invest more equally around Wales they still vote for the same old, same old, I would not say I'm a negative person but they really do deserve the Government they get, that is why I'm interested if CooperJack will vote Plaid, he obviously feels strongly about the unfairness of a disproportional amount of money going to Cardiff, one thing he can do is vote for a party who's policy is for what he wants but will he ?
The area he comes from/lives, the scaremongering and falsehoods over decades, will he, that is what I'm wondering.
There is that guy with the scruffy long hair on here, a bit of a luvvie [likes pop music and arts from what I can tell], he bothers a Plaid am on social media thinks she great but does he vote for Plaid in General Elections ?, if not why not if he thinks his local am does good work in the community.
If people keep voting for the same old parties they are going to get the same old results, its not rocket science.
Good on you johnlangy for doing something positive, highlighting what you think is right on this board and being a member of a social justice party that has equality and fairplay at its heart, supporting such a party in this area can lead to ridicule and attacks fuelled by lies and misinformation, good on you for being prepared to stand up for what you think is right, I might join when I'm retired and have time to go to a conference or something, have you been to a conference ?, have you said hello to the lovely Leanne or heard her give a speech ? [Post edited 31 Jan 2017 18:05]
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 18:16 - Jan 31 with 3145 views | trampie |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 17:21 - Jan 31 by union_jack |
You are indeed correct. And I'm 'diverting' the thread because Trampie asked why we don't vote for Plaid.
They could build me and everybody else a house out of gold but not at the expense of independence. I think it's a relevant reply. |
''They could build me and everybody else a house out of gold but not at the expense of independence'', you say union_jack - why ?
Plaid will let everybody in, if people want to live in Wales then they are Welsh [if they want to be], they don't have to be born here or have Welsh parents or speak the Welsh language, they would not stop people visiting here or people living here leaving, so it makes little difference if Wales was independent or not as there would be little restrictions through Wales being a sovereign country.
So if they built everybody a house made of gold, what would be the problem ? | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 10:27 - Feb 1 with 3036 views | johnlangy |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 17:21 - Jan 31 by union_jack |
You are indeed correct. And I'm 'diverting' the thread because Trampie asked why we don't vote for Plaid.
They could build me and everybody else a house out of gold but not at the expense of independence. I think it's a relevant reply. |
What you've said there UJ is that you wouldn't vote Plaid because they would be elected (if many others voted for them as well) 'at the expense of independence'.
Well that's not correct is it. If Plaid's manifesto at the next WAG election says we will spread investment around Wales fairly and, by the way, as soon as we're elected we'll call for a referendum you should still vote for them in my opinion.
Why ? The answer's simple. It's not up to them to decide if Wales becomes independent. It's down to us. They can put it in their manifesto if they want but the Welsh people would say no. I'm a Plaid member and i'd vote no. Definitely.
If Plaid want Independence for Wales first they have to be elected to government. The way they can achieve that is by showing that they have the interests of ALL the people of Wales at the core of their policies and, once elected, to prove that by what they do and achieve.
If they DO achieve that and Wales begins to thrive again perhaps people will start to think Independence would be a good thing. But it would be a long time before we are anywhere near that situation. The job they'd be taking on is monumental. I read a few days ago that over the last 30 years Welsh GDP has dropped from 90% of the UK average to 72%.
Welsh Labour have been running the country for most of that time so, bearing in mind the complete disaster they've been it baffles me why people still vote for them. | | | |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 11:03 - Feb 1 with 3017 views | CopperJack |
Replying to the questions on here. I did vote Plaid during the last Assembly Elections, but, to be honest, I fear them pushing for independence like the SNP have. I'd like to think people would vote no, but the Welsh people are so insanely stupid (twenty years of a Labour Government who have driven down standards in education, healthcare and created a city state), that I fear they'd vote yes. We blame all our problems on Westminster and England but our problems lie at home in Cardiff Bay. The problem is, they rely on bigotry (hatred of england) and ignorance to keep voting them in. We blame our problems on England (easy to tap into nationalism for a vote) and they say they love Swansea and the donkeys swallow it. When you actually confront them with facts, they have literally nothing to respond with - as demonstrated above by my email.
I despair for Wales, but you get the government you deserve, and evidently, we deserve to be neglected. I know tonnes of people who vote for Labour because they always have, yet lament the fact that Cardiff gets everything. Couldn't make it up | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 13:13 - Feb 1 with 2976 views | trampie |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 11:03 - Feb 1 by CopperJack |
Replying to the questions on here. I did vote Plaid during the last Assembly Elections, but, to be honest, I fear them pushing for independence like the SNP have. I'd like to think people would vote no, but the Welsh people are so insanely stupid (twenty years of a Labour Government who have driven down standards in education, healthcare and created a city state), that I fear they'd vote yes. We blame all our problems on Westminster and England but our problems lie at home in Cardiff Bay. The problem is, they rely on bigotry (hatred of england) and ignorance to keep voting them in. We blame our problems on England (easy to tap into nationalism for a vote) and they say they love Swansea and the donkeys swallow it. When you actually confront them with facts, they have literally nothing to respond with - as demonstrated above by my email.
I despair for Wales, but you get the government you deserve, and evidently, we deserve to be neglected. I know tonnes of people who vote for Labour because they always have, yet lament the fact that Cardiff gets everything. Couldn't make it up |
Plaid would not push for independence, they rarely mention the 'i' word, independence to them is decades away [if at all], I have heard of polls of Plaid members and virtually none of them would vote for independence [and that's Plaid members] Wales would have to be able to stand on its own two feet first to even entertain it.
Wales is overrun by English immigrants [its just an observation of fact], many have been here for centuries, Wales is not going to vote for independence anytime soon, Wales does not dislike England, Wales loves England, people that live in Wales love GB and the Queen and the union jack, Swansea love all those things as much as anyway in Wales.
Plaid offer social justice policies, the spreading of wealth throughout Wales, equality and non centralisation of power.
Why people in Swansea don't vote for that is a case of more fool them as far as I'm concerned, its Swansea people that are thick as f*ck and not Welsh people per se as many parts of Wales do vote for Plaid unlike Swansea.
If Wales was able to economically stand on its own two feet and had national institutions like banking, justice system, independent press etc then Wales would still not vote for independence because people would say we are doing ok as we are, but to get to that stage of being able to stand on our own two feet people need to vote Plaid in to achieve that, plus like I say the demographics in Wales are such that Wales would be unlikely to vote for independence as something like a quarter of all people living here were not born here, they were nearly all born in England.
The press and opponents scaremonger about Plaid when in fact they are the most middle of the road, nicey nice party unwilling to upset anybody going.
Its a shame as the alternative to the middle of the road Plaid are right wing parties in the shape of Labour and the Conservatives, as regards the Assembly they have limited powers, they need greater powers but with Plaid in charge spreading the wealth, Labour in charge just means more money spent in Cardiff. | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 13:41 - Feb 1 with 2949 views | trampie |
Kaardiff and M4 corridor types East of Bridgend voting Labour/Tory because they are doing ok compared to the rest of Wales - I can see that, I don't like it and I vote for what I think is best for Wales as opposed to myself but I can see that.
Areas in West and North Wales that vote Plaid that don't think they are doing well by having a Tory Government in London and a Labour one in Cardiff [or people in mid Wales voting Lib-Dem] - I can see that
But areas that are not doing well out of having a Tory Government in London and a Labour Government in Cardiff just like Swansea but still voting Conservative and Labour - what the f*ck is that all about ?
Can Swansea people on here say why they are voting either Labour or Conservative when the place is in such a bad state, it does make Swansea people seem dull as f*ck. [Post edited 1 Feb 2017 14:01]
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:25 - Feb 1 with 2912 views | nice_to_michu |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 13:41 - Feb 1 by trampie |
Kaardiff and M4 corridor types East of Bridgend voting Labour/Tory because they are doing ok compared to the rest of Wales - I can see that, I don't like it and I vote for what I think is best for Wales as opposed to myself but I can see that.
Areas in West and North Wales that vote Plaid that don't think they are doing well by having a Tory Government in London and a Labour one in Cardiff [or people in mid Wales voting Lib-Dem] - I can see that
But areas that are not doing well out of having a Tory Government in London and a Labour Government in Cardiff just like Swansea but still voting Conservative and Labour - what the f*ck is that all about ?
Can Swansea people on here say why they are voting either Labour or Conservative when the place is in such a bad state, it does make Swansea people seem dull as f*ck. [Post edited 1 Feb 2017 14:01]
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Easy answer. I vote Labour because it's the party which reflects most of ideas re the domestic economy, workers rights etc (I'm not on board with Corbyn and the far left at all, however). I believe in a unified, United Kingdom and do not want to give any support for nationalist parties, at any level.
I will vote Labour at Assembly level because I think there are a number of policies which I believe have been good for Wales. I don't buy into this idea of "everything goes to Cardiff" thing. Is it a little unbalanced? Sure. But I don't think it's as extreme as people on here make out that it is.
As ever, the devil is always in the detail. The other party of the "left", Plaid, consistently cry foul and say things like "give West Wales more money" etc etc. Then you look at their manifesto in the last election and the only discernible difference to Labour in terms of major projects/funding was the M4 relief road. And when it comes to that road I fully support the investment in it anyway.
A left of centre government is only achievable with Labour representation at all levels. As soon as people start splitting their votes at different levels, then it will just increase the likelihood of perpetual Tory governments in Westminster.
Although you may disagree, Trampie, I don't think it's that "stupid" at all. [Post edited 1 Feb 2017 14:34]
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:50 - Feb 1 with 2891 views | trampie |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:25 - Feb 1 by nice_to_michu |
Easy answer. I vote Labour because it's the party which reflects most of ideas re the domestic economy, workers rights etc (I'm not on board with Corbyn and the far left at all, however). I believe in a unified, United Kingdom and do not want to give any support for nationalist parties, at any level.
I will vote Labour at Assembly level because I think there are a number of policies which I believe have been good for Wales. I don't buy into this idea of "everything goes to Cardiff" thing. Is it a little unbalanced? Sure. But I don't think it's as extreme as people on here make out that it is.
As ever, the devil is always in the detail. The other party of the "left", Plaid, consistently cry foul and say things like "give West Wales more money" etc etc. Then you look at their manifesto in the last election and the only discernible difference to Labour in terms of major projects/funding was the M4 relief road. And when it comes to that road I fully support the investment in it anyway.
A left of centre government is only achievable with Labour representation at all levels. As soon as people start splitting their votes at different levels, then it will just increase the likelihood of perpetual Tory governments in Westminster.
Although you may disagree, Trampie, I don't think it's that "stupid" at all. [Post edited 1 Feb 2017 14:34]
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Labour is a nationalist party, it believes in borders, it was in Government when it took us to war in the Middle East telling us that a country out there was hostile to us and had weapons of mass destruction that was a danger to us, when in fact I did not, you cant get more imperialist and nationalistic than that.
Labour is not left of centre, its right wing, check out the political compass site to see where Labour is on a political left/right graph, Labour has right wing policies that is why its plotted out on the right hand side, compare that to Plaid or SNP they are in the centre/slight left of centre, Plaid are very much middle of the road, Labour are right wing. | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:47 - Feb 1 with 2853 views | union_jack |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:50 - Feb 1 by trampie |
Labour is a nationalist party, it believes in borders, it was in Government when it took us to war in the Middle East telling us that a country out there was hostile to us and had weapons of mass destruction that was a danger to us, when in fact I did not, you cant get more imperialist and nationalistic than that.
Labour is not left of centre, its right wing, check out the political compass site to see where Labour is on a political left/right graph, Labour has right wing policies that is why its plotted out on the right hand side, compare that to Plaid or SNP they are in the centre/slight left of centre, Plaid are very much middle of the road, Labour are right wing. |
Both you and John have put your side well in the above posts.
However, I think CopperJack has it spot on b=when he talks about the Welsh electorate. We can be too fickle for a referendum. Make it a 2/3 majority (as it should be in change to major policy) and I'd be ok with that.
Now you both say that the 'i' word is not on the agenda. It seems strange to me that Plaid have never made this well known. I can't pretend to know anything about their manifesto but I'm sure I would have heard about this if they'd made it known. Maybe they need to look at that between now and the next election. | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 16:08 - Feb 1 with 2844 views | nice_to_michu |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:50 - Feb 1 by trampie |
Labour is a nationalist party, it believes in borders, it was in Government when it took us to war in the Middle East telling us that a country out there was hostile to us and had weapons of mass destruction that was a danger to us, when in fact I did not, you cant get more imperialist and nationalistic than that.
Labour is not left of centre, its right wing, check out the political compass site to see where Labour is on a political left/right graph, Labour has right wing policies that is why its plotted out on the right hand side, compare that to Plaid or SNP they are in the centre/slight left of centre, Plaid are very much middle of the road, Labour are right wing. |
I'm not interested in the political compass site you mention in every other post. I'm interested in actual policies, not one website. The fact is that the Plaid manifesto was awfully similar in terms of "socialist policy" as was the Labour manifesto in the Welsh Assembly elections, and the major difference was the M4 relief road. In fact, Plaid's manifesto saw £300m less for the health service, so read into that what you will.
Stop trying to equate Labour's nationalism with that of Plaid's. it's disingenuous. Everyone with half a brain knows what Welsh nationalism is all about, and it's not the same as just believing in borders. Are you going to tell me that because because the Swedish people believe in borders they are therefore as "nationalistic" as Russians?
I don't see what the Iraq war has to do with nationalism, or imperialism for that matter, but let's try not to go down that route. | | | |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque on 16:23 - Feb 1 with 2827 views | nice_to_michu |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 15:47 - Feb 1 by union_jack |
Both you and John have put your side well in the above posts.
However, I think CopperJack has it spot on b=when he talks about the Welsh electorate. We can be too fickle for a referendum. Make it a 2/3 majority (as it should be in change to major policy) and I'd be ok with that.
Now you both say that the 'i' word is not on the agenda. It seems strange to me that Plaid have never made this well known. I can't pretend to know anything about their manifesto but I'm sure I would have heard about this if they'd made it known. Maybe they need to look at that between now and the next election. |
Plaid have not kicked independence to the long grass, it's still very much their intention. They know that bringing it up every five minutes will not win them any seats/elections.
Tactically, they are perusing the SNP route. Both Plaid and the SNP are just populist parties, going with wherever the anti-establishment wind will take them. The SNP successfully ousted Labour by saying they will offer something different, and what have the Scots got to show for it? Nothing. All they have is a leader who consistency blames everyone and everything except her own government. After years of battering Labour saying that taxes were too low in Scotland and they aren't socialist etc etc, the Scots were given tax-raising powers by Westminster. And what did Sturgeon's government do? Yep, lower taxes.
Plaid are interested in independence and will do anything to achieve that aim. That is the prism through which they view politics.
I will never support a party like that. | | | |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque on 16:26 - Feb 1 with 2820 views | union_jack |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque on 16:23 - Feb 1 by nice_to_michu |
Plaid have not kicked independence to the long grass, it's still very much their intention. They know that bringing it up every five minutes will not win them any seats/elections.
Tactically, they are perusing the SNP route. Both Plaid and the SNP are just populist parties, going with wherever the anti-establishment wind will take them. The SNP successfully ousted Labour by saying they will offer something different, and what have the Scots got to show for it? Nothing. All they have is a leader who consistency blames everyone and everything except her own government. After years of battering Labour saying that taxes were too low in Scotland and they aren't socialist etc etc, the Scots were given tax-raising powers by Westminster. And what did Sturgeon's government do? Yep, lower taxes.
Plaid are interested in independence and will do anything to achieve that aim. That is the prism through which they view politics.
I will never support a party like that. |
I suppose the lack of any denial speaks volumes. That's my fear. | |
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| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 16:28 - Feb 1 with 2815 views | CopperJack |
| Cardiff Metro - an open cheque ? on 14:25 - Feb 1 by nice_to_michu |
Easy answer. I vote Labour because it's the party which reflects most of ideas re the domestic economy, workers rights etc (I'm not on board with Corbyn and the far left at all, however). I believe in a unified, United Kingdom and do not want to give any support for nationalist parties, at any level.
I will vote Labour at Assembly level because I think there are a number of policies which I believe have been good for Wales. I don't buy into this idea of "everything goes to Cardiff" thing. Is it a little unbalanced? Sure. But I don't think it's as extreme as people on here make out that it is.
As ever, the devil is always in the detail. The other party of the "left", Plaid, consistently cry foul and say things like "give West Wales more money" etc etc. Then you look at their manifesto in the last election and the only discernible difference to Labour in terms of major projects/funding was the M4 relief road. And when it comes to that road I fully support the investment in it anyway.
A left of centre government is only achievable with Labour representation at all levels. As soon as people start splitting their votes at different levels, then it will just increase the likelihood of perpetual Tory governments in Westminster.
Although you may disagree, Trampie, I don't think it's that "stupid" at all. [Post edited 1 Feb 2017 14:34]
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A little unbalanced? They spend roughly the same pa on Cardiff Bay than they have in SA1, period. That's not including the cost of building it. They spent more on one bloody building. You'll vote labour and no doubt see everything good in Cardiff as 'good for wales', but dear me, don't underplay the disparity when the numbers are in black and white. Invalidates the rest of your argument | |
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