| Hello the Trust 11:13 - Jul 19 with 7555 views | DafyddHuw |
I sent you the following question last week, and although you say you'll repond within 48 hrs, I'm still waiting.
So I'll try to get your attention on here -
The candidates for election to the Trust board - how do I find out what their ttitude are to the deal/litigate situation?
I don'r care if they speak Welsh, are MDs of companies or have supporteed the Swans since they were foetuses. But I do want to know what their attitude to our owners is.
Surely in any other type of election we'd have some concept of what candidates stood for. How can I vote for someone when I know feck all about their attitude to the club?
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| Hello the Trust on 10:17 - Jul 20 with 798 views | Uxbridge |
| Hello the Trust on 10:14 - Jul 20 by E20Jack |
Because I know what similar cases cost. It will not exceed 700k, as I said of that I am certain.
Nope, again you can say its fantasy but it is clearly not, you just don't like the outcome. Conceding the drag rights make it entirely possible. There is absolutely no reason the Americans can not decide to acquire all of The Trusts shares for pennies. none.
Again the irony being your response to that is that there is protection via a court case based on prejudice... you know, like the one the QC said we have a good chance of winning now... the one you claim we may not be able to afford.
You are blowing smoke up the memberships behinds in weighted language, selective explanations and very unhelpful heavy recommendations.
Again, a complete blank on the obvious elephant in the room regarding the current lack of any sort of influence. no surprise there. |
I think I'll bow out here. You're wrong. |  |
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| Hello the Trust on 10:18 - Jul 20 with 795 views | costalotta |
| Hello the Trust on 10:14 - Jul 20 by Nookiejack |
I don't understand why fan ownership is outdated?
Isn't most of the Bundesliga fan ownership?
Aren't Real Madrid and Barcelona fan owned?
Wouldn't we also be different?
We don't currently know who stands behind the Yanks Delaware investment vehicle?
We don't know who they might eventually sell to? What happens if they decide to sell to a Vincent Tan type character? |
Committees are outdated. I didn't say fan ownership was.
Sorry, it's very sunny here and I'm having breakfast by my pool and my iPad sometimes goes into meltdown and I words I type go missing n all this sunlight! Lol. |  | | |
| Hello the Trust on 10:19 - Jul 20 with 792 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 10:07 - Jul 20 by Uxbridge |
Why would someone be willing to sell a controlling stake, keeping a minority stake for themselves?
£18m may be enough. £5m may be enough. £10m may be enough. £30m may be enough. Who knows. This idea that £18m is a magic amount that will allow the Trust to achieve the aim of total ownership in the future really should be challenged. |
Then challenge it.
The answer to any challenge is obvious however. The higher the amount The Trust has, the more chance it has of acquiring the club in a healthy state. £18m isnt a 'magic number', it is a number that other clubs are being sold for that still remain relatively healthy that would not need a mammoth fall from grace.
As for why would someone want to sell a majority stake and keep a minority stake - this happens all the time in business. It really is nothing out of the ordinary. If the Americans dont feel they can rejuvenate the club then recouping £18m (lets not forget they would already have had the opportunity to exploit massive consultancy fees and salaries) - keeping a minority stake with protections in their favour could prove a very wise thing to do if we ever find ourselves back in the PL. |  |
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| Hello the Trust on 10:22 - Jul 20 with 780 views | Swanseajill |
| Hello the Trust on 11:56 - Jul 19 by Uxbridge |
Out of interest, why on earth would you think it was the Trust's responsibility to dictate what is in the candidate statements, or go out and find answers for you on your particular questions? Does the Electoral commission set out what has to be included in MP candidates leaflets? Your question makes no sense.
Someone should have answered it I agree, assuming you sent it to via the Trust Contact Us form on the website, not in some post on here.
I've got a pretty simplistic view on this. There's nothing compelling a Trust member to a) vote at all or b) vote for 6 people - you could vote just for 1 if you so choose.
If it was me, if someone's pitch didn't meet the requirements I set out to vote for them, then I wouldn't vote for them. Simple really.
If you want to ask anyone standing who also posts on here for their view then that's up to them if they answer. You can judge their answer or silence as you so wish.
Seeing as you asked, I'll be voting in favour of the offer. Can't say I'm a fan of the offer but it's the better of the three alternatives. I don't trust the Americans but , to be blunt, they're over here and they own the majority of the shareholding. They ain't going anywhere. The decision is either to work with them or not. I choose the former, rightly or wrongly. I wouldn't vote for me if that's a problem for you, and that's fine by me. People should vote for who they want to take things forward. |
Thanks for the reply Ux, you blagged my vote days ago. |  | | |
| Hello the Trust on 10:22 - Jul 20 with 780 views | Nookiejack |
| Hello the Trust on 09:35 - Jul 20 by Dewi1jack |
Got to agree Monny.
I can only see the downside to accepting what I believe to be a bad deal.
I am fairly sure, maybe to about 85-90% that the Merrycans will come back with a much improved offer if the vote came back for litigation.
The Trust should be using every media outlet, even the Clubs owned journo (Wathan/ wales on line and the SWEP) if they can, to publicise the sh1te they and us have been stitched up with and the shenanigans of the sellout vermin.
Legal action won't take down the sellers. I think everyone with half a brain accepts that point now.
Only way to get back at them is to make it too uncomfy for them in the ground so they just walk away.
But being offered crumbs compared to the vermin sellers stinks.
Drag rights?
What if the club is sold at a £1 plus debt again?
"We'll give you a bit of cash for your shares providing we stay up in the PL"
What happens once we're relegated? Nothing?
No extra cash and still no voice.
Personally, I've been accepting that we're possibly relegated every season. Saw 2 under Tosh then a collapse and have sort of been accepting that the same would happen again.
I love watching us beat the likes of Liverpool, Utd etc but will still be there if we're struggling against the likes of Newport, Halifax, Wrexham or whoever is in the bottom division
"We'll give you a meaningful voice"
Showed that when challenged about the friendly ticket prices (providing we accept that the Trust challenged them- I do.)
No voice that's going to be listened and a crap deal with it loaded so heavily in the Yanks favour.
"We sell the club- you have no say but have to sell your shares by agreement. But we'll give you a few quid to make up for it"
That seems to me to be the offer on the table.
I too am baffled at the rush and what seems a very heavy push by the wording used to accept it |
Wholeheartedly agree
The Trust will have much more a voice if it takes 2 years to go to court with the threat of legal action.
Supporters of the Yanks on here argue that Trust will then run out of funds.
Shaky suggested (if i understood his post correctly)Trust would not incur large fees until it actually went to court in 2 years time.
However during that time would mean that it would then be difficult for Yanks to make strategic decisions with the threat of legal action over the club. For example if a buyer suddenly was thinking of making an offer for the Yanks shares. Would they do this with threat of legal action? |  | | |
| Hello the Trust on 10:23 - Jul 20 with 773 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 10:04 - Jul 20 by costalotta |
Er...no. I didn't say the trust couldnt buy the club for 21m in the future. I said if that happens it won't be good IMO as it likely means we'd have failed and have dropped leagues. I also said I'd rather there was not 100% fan ownership you cannot run anything by committee and that model is outdated and frankly doesn't work. But that's just my view.
I never mentioned drag rights nor did I comment on them as they not relevant to the point I was making.
I don't think it's viable because we do not have a big enough fan base for it be viable. Think of the gene pool not being big enough to produce the talent needed to run as you state. |
Right, but what does that have to do with anything? You seem to be saying that we can only drop down the leagues if the Trust leave and bank the cash? This is a scenario that can happen anyway, and if it is going to happen then it will happen regardless.
What position would you rather the Trust be in if that were to happen? Have £6m in the bank and stand by and watch as the club get sold to the first bidder (may be Petty for all we know). Or have enough to take over itself?
As for never mentioning drag rights, then I was correct and you were not making the same points as I was.
I still dont understand your comment regarding the viability of the Trust taking over. It has absolutely nothing to do with the size of a fanbase? You can employ a world class MD that isnt a Swansea fan you know? | |
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| Hello the Trust on 10:24 - Jul 20 with 766 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 10:17 - Jul 20 by Uxbridge |
I think I'll bow out here. You're wrong. |
Feel free. We both know I'm not though, you just dont like it and know that it makes your stance look utterly ridiculous as a member of the Trust... which it is of course.
You concede drag rights, you can be pulled into any deal. If the Americans feel it is appropriate to get out of the club and sell a loss making club for a nominal fee, they can whether you choose to accept that or not. | |
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| Hello the Trust on 10:30 - Jul 20 with 753 views | Nookiejack |
| Hello the Trust on 09:28 - Jul 20 by E20Jack |
I read it a few times yesterday, couldnt make head nor tail of what you were trying to say on the point I highlighted I am afraid.
Of course complete fan ownership would be extremely good news. I doubt anybody is advocating current Trust members being key figures in the running of the club. However if allows the Trust to employ a world class sporting MD and pay a competitive salary, same goes for marketing manager, social media team, promotions team etc etc (basically just what any other owners do).
The 100% fan ownership model stops us getting owned by tycoons, wanting to profit off the club and make decisions based on return rather than the prosperity of the club. |
All returns are also reinvested back into the club.
Over time this should make the club far more competitive. | | | |
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| Hello the Trust on 10:31 - Jul 20 with 746 views | Uxbridge |
| Hello the Trust on 10:24 - Jul 20 by E20Jack |
Feel free. We both know I'm not though, you just dont like it and know that it makes your stance look utterly ridiculous as a member of the Trust... which it is of course.
You concede drag rights, you can be pulled into any deal. If the Americans feel it is appropriate to get out of the club and sell a loss making club for a nominal fee, they can whether you choose to accept that or not. |
I really don't. I think you're making it up, and have no clue how much the legal case would cost, particularly if lost. Hence why there's no point me attempting to argue either way on it. So I won't. | |
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| Hello the Trust on 10:37 - Jul 20 with 727 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 10:31 - Jul 20 by Uxbridge |
I really don't. I think you're making it up, and have no clue how much the legal case would cost, particularly if lost. Hence why there's no point me attempting to argue either way on it. So I won't. |
You think I am making up the fact (not opinion mind, fact) that the Americans can sell their shares for whatever they deem acceptable?
If you genuinely dont know this is the case and you are heavily involved in the trust then that is utterly terrifying. | |
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| Hello the Trust on 10:41 - Jul 20 with 718 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 10:30 - Jul 20 by Nookiejack |
All returns are also reinvested back into the club.
Over time this should make the club far more competitive. |
Indeed. It is the ultimate goal for any Trust organisation set up to protect the football club. Conceding any chance of that to maintain a voice that cant even change a friendly ticket price - is truly a pathetic situation.
What makes it worse is the clear manipulation to the members to push that decision through.
Unfathomable, unethical and completely irresponsible. [Post edited 20 Jul 2017 10:42]
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| Hello the Trust on 10:54 - Jul 20 with 706 views | Nookiejack |
| Hello the Trust on 10:31 - Jul 20 by Uxbridge |
I really don't. I think you're making it up, and have no clue how much the legal case would cost, particularly if lost. Hence why there's no point me attempting to argue either way on it. So I won't. |
It's the lack of self respect that galls me.
How the Yanks will get away with not offering the same deal as the other selling shareholders received - if members vote for your recommended option.
The Supporters will have been treated with contempt.
What would Jenkins, Morgan, Katzen have done if the situation was reversed - if they had been ganged up on by other selling shareholders and isolated? Would they have accepted low ball offer? Or showed some fight? | | | |
| Hello the Trust on 11:00 - Jul 20 with 698 views | DafyddHuw |
| Hello the Trust on 09:50 - Jul 20 by Uxbridge |
If we lose the legal case, the Trust wouldn't have £700k in the bank. It probably wouldn't have anything. In fact, there's every chance legal fees would wipe out any existing Trust funds or worse. In fact what happens if the legal fees stretch beyond the money the Trust has?
That second paragraph, whilst being largely fantasy and introducing several theories that are, if not outright illegal (which I'd leave to the lawyers, but I suspect would be), at the very least are so outrageously prejudicial to the other minority shareholders (not just the Trust) that would never stand up in court. However you have brought up an interesting point regarding why the Trust keeping a stake is a good thing ... while it retains that stake, such actions would not be open to the Americans without being unfairly prejudicial to those minority shareholders. |
"...at the very least are so outrageously prejudicial to the other minority shareholders (not just the Trust) that would never stand up in court."
Like buying/selling the club behinf the back of a director who owns 21% of the club, you mean? That'll never stand up in court either - and that's according to 2 QCs - but you're still bottling it. | | | |
| Hello the Trust on 11:04 - Jul 20 with 695 views | DafyddHuw |
| Hello the Trust on 09:42 - Jul 20 by Uxbridge |
Of course they do.
There are two rights here, whilst Nookie is focusing only on one of them.
Under this deal, the Trust will gain tag along rights. This means the Trust have the right to be involved in any future sale. If the Americans sell in the future, then the Trust can sell at the exact same share price. We don't have that today. That's a big deal, as has been pointed out a lot in the past, the Trust's shareholding is its own little island without this ... it could be passed over in perpetuity. Without that, you would have to question what the Trust shareholding is worth, or for.
On the flip side, this deal will give drag along rights to the Americans. That means that, if a future buyer wants to buy out the Trust, the Trust could be forced to sell. Few points to note here - again, that sale would be at the same price as the Americans. What that price would be we can't know now, we can only speculate. We also don't know what a future buyer would want to do. Given the last 12 months, would a future buyer want to take the PR hit of jettisoning the fans? It's far from guaranteed, but it is entirely possible? Also, we have no idea when that could take place - this may be 3, 5 or 10 years time. Somewhere in the middle I'd suspect. In the meantime, the Trust retains its influence and access ... however you judge the worth of that.
For me, the benefits of the tag along rights far exceed the potential downside of the drag along rights. |
"as has been pointed out a lot in the past, the Trust's shareholding is its own little island without this ... it could be passed over in perpetuity"
Exactly. And people have been telling you this for weeks, but you've been saying that they weretalking nonsense.
When did you see the light? | | | |
| Hello the Trust on 11:10 - Jul 20 with 685 views | Shaky |
I see E20 has elected to skip breakfast in favour of heading straight for the crack pipe again.
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| Hello the Trust on 11:20 - Jul 20 with 673 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 11:10 - Jul 20 by Shaky |
I see E20 has elected to skip breakfast in favour of heading straight for the crack pipe again.
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Oh look who it is, its the resident troll.
Welcome.  | |
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| Hello the Trust on 11:25 - Jul 20 with 663 views | Nookiejack |
If legal action is taken it is going to cause considerable press coverage.
TV Shows like the Sunday Supplement will definitely discuss why the Swansea City Supporters Trust think they have such a strong case and have been unfairly prejudiced.
Spotlight will be really shone on last year's deal and the actions of various parties.
Maybe some good will also come out of all this in respect of the protection of other Supporters Trusts across the country. | | | |
| Hello the Trust on 11:30 - Jul 20 with 655 views | Shaky |
| Hello the Trust on 11:20 - Jul 20 by E20Jack |
Oh look who it is, its the resident troll.
Welcome. |
Bookmaker to the stars, financial expert and trader extraordinaire, close confidante of legal billing clerks, official greeter of Planet Swans; there's simply nothing you can't do when you're freebasing.
Am I right? | |
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| Hello the Trust on 11:32 - Jul 20 with 651 views | costalotta |
| Hello the Trust on 10:23 - Jul 20 by E20Jack |
Right, but what does that have to do with anything? You seem to be saying that we can only drop down the leagues if the Trust leave and bank the cash? This is a scenario that can happen anyway, and if it is going to happen then it will happen regardless.
What position would you rather the Trust be in if that were to happen? Have £6m in the bank and stand by and watch as the club get sold to the first bidder (may be Petty for all we know). Or have enough to take over itself?
As for never mentioning drag rights, then I was correct and you were not making the same points as I was.
I still dont understand your comment regarding the viability of the Trust taking over. It has absolutely nothing to do with the size of a fanbase? You can employ a world class MD that isnt a Swansea fan you know? |
God your thick! A post with many paragraphs made up of Mandy sentences may attempt to respond to more than one point in the original post. Like I said I never discussed nor mentioned drag rights in any of my posts / reponses to you.
You seem so set in your way that you hav difficulty reading what's actually there. To make matters worse you also seem to have troubl conversing and thinking out of the box.
The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear! | | | |
| Hello the Trust on 11:34 - Jul 20 with 646 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 11:30 - Jul 20 by Shaky |
Bookmaker to the stars, financial expert and trader extraordinaire, close confidante of legal billing clerks, official greeter of Planet Swans; there's simply nothing you can't do when you're freebasing.
Am I right? |
Bookmaker to the stars? What do you know about our clientele, do tell? (nothing clearly). I am not a bookmaker, I am a risk analyst for a billion pound organisation which includes the largest bookmaker globally. Thanks for asking troll.  | |
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| Hello the Trust on 11:36 - Jul 20 with 639 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 11:32 - Jul 20 by costalotta |
God your thick! A post with many paragraphs made up of Mandy sentences may attempt to respond to more than one point in the original post. Like I said I never discussed nor mentioned drag rights in any of my posts / reponses to you.
You seem so set in your way that you hav difficulty reading what's actually there. To make matters worse you also seem to have troubl conversing and thinking out of the box.
The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear! |
I think you mean ''you're'' thick? Don't you?
Listen moron. You claimed you said pretty much exactly the same as me - I replied with the observation that you couldn't have because the majority of the theme of my post was surrounding drag rights and the possible implications - yet you didnt even realise what they were.
Now read the replies again before you continue to make a complete idiot of yourself.
The fact is, your post makes little sense and you most certainly are not saying anything like I was. I feel this discussion may be out of your range of comprehension. [Post edited 20 Jul 2017 11:37]
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| Hello the Trust on 11:42 - Jul 20 with 621 views | costalotta |
| Hello the Trust on 11:10 - Jul 20 by Shaky |
I see E20 has elected to skip breakfast in favour of heading straight for the crack pipe again.
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha. | | | |
| Hello the Trust on 11:44 - Jul 20 with 613 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 11:42 - Jul 20 by costalotta |
Hahahahahahahahahahaha. |
too thick to reply and explain your waffling, lets post a sound instead  | |
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| Hello the Trust on 11:46 - Jul 20 with 603 views | costalotta |
| Hello the Trust on 11:44 - Jul 20 by E20Jack |
too thick to reply and explain your waffling, lets post a sound instead |
Sorry anal yst. I'm still laughing!!! I'll get back to you. | | | |
| Hello the Trust on 11:49 - Jul 20 with 591 views | E20Jack |
| Hello the Trust on 11:46 - Jul 20 by costalotta |
Sorry anal yst. I'm still laughing!!! I'll get back to you. |
I accept your apology.
When you feel the discussion is over your head in the future, just admit it. It reflects far better on you than talking gibberish and posting like a 5 year old. We have enough of those on here, some just joined the thread ironically.
Feel free to explain your witterings when you have calmed down. I will read with interest in the hope of furthering what was a fruitful debate prior. [Post edited 20 Jul 2017 11:50]
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