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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 13:40 - Mar 1 by Kerouac
No I am not. Northern Irish UK citizens wouldn't have a new border to cross under my proposals , ROI citizens (and other citizens from the EU and the rest of the World) would
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 15:58 - Mar 1 by Highjack
Is there a big smugglers market in chlorinated chickens then? Big cash to be made I imagine. Huge demand.
The EU customs checks as they are are far from robust when you consider the thousands of tons of heroin and cocaine that hit our streets from Central America and the Middle East every year.
What a strange riddle.
I was interested to read that it is not the washing of chicken in chlorinated water that is the problem, but rather the lower standards of animal welfare (such as crowded pens, droppings and infection risks) that this practice is intended to compensate for.
At the risk of exposing my ignorance, I wondered if chlorine is really such an unknown chemical in the UK. It struck me that in my own kitchen we also wash supermarket chicken in chlorinated water - when we run it under the tap. As far as I can work out the 4 parts per million in our tap water is lower than the 20-50 ppm typically found in the chicken wash, but it is perhaps just a matter of degree. Much higher concentrations are routinely used to sterilise babies' bottles. I'm not expert enough to know whether in general there are differences in the chlorine source, but think sodium hypochlorite and calcium hypochlorite are used in both tap water and some washes. I guess the point I'm driving at is that if we are so worried about chlorine then there are risks all around us, from tap water to infant bottle wash solution to the water in the swimming pool, that might concern us.
I accept that high animal welfare standards are the way to go, and that is where the bigger risk with US meat lies At the same time though I've eaten a lot of chicken in the US and Canada and never had a problem. Would the people who are expressing concern on this thread say that KFC is a definite 'no no' if they go on holiday to Florida? If so then Mexico, South Africa and quite a few other non-EU countries will also be KFC-free zones for you.
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 18:43 - Mar 1 with 974 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 18:13 - Mar 1 by AnotherJohn
I was interested to read that it is not the washing of chicken in chlorinated water that is the problem, but rather the lower standards of animal welfare (such as crowded pens, droppings and infection risks) that this practice is intended to compensate for.
At the risk of exposing my ignorance, I wondered if chlorine is really such an unknown chemical in the UK. It struck me that in my own kitchen we also wash supermarket chicken in chlorinated water - when we run it under the tap. As far as I can work out the 4 parts per million in our tap water is lower than the 20-50 ppm typically found in the chicken wash, but it is perhaps just a matter of degree. Much higher concentrations are routinely used to sterilise babies' bottles. I'm not expert enough to know whether in general there are differences in the chlorine source, but think sodium hypochlorite and calcium hypochlorite are used in both tap water and some washes. I guess the point I'm driving at is that if we are so worried about chlorine then there are risks all around us, from tap water to infant bottle wash solution to the water in the swimming pool, that might concern us.
I accept that high animal welfare standards are the way to go, and that is where the bigger risk with US meat lies At the same time though I've eaten a lot of chicken in the US and Canada and never had a problem. Would the people who are expressing concern on this thread say that KFC is a definite 'no no' if they go on holiday to Florida? If so then Mexico, South Africa and quite a few other non-EU countries will also be KFC-free zones for you.
UK tapwater has a chlorine content of .5 ppm or less.
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 18:47 - Mar 1 by Humpty
Pardon?
I misread your post and re-edited incorrectly. But I will recheck my source. The other thing that i chanced upon is that about 99% of teh average Brit's chlorine intake comes from drinking water.
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 18:53 - Mar 1 with 941 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 18:50 - Mar 1 by AnotherJohn
I misread your post and re-edited incorrectly. But I will recheck my source. The other thing that i chanced upon is that about 99% of teh average Brit's chlorine intake comes from drinking water.
I've provided you with a source. It's from Defra.
The WHO sets an upper limit of 5 ppm for tapwater but the UK keeps it at .5 ppm.
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 18:13 - Mar 1 by AnotherJohn
I was interested to read that it is not the washing of chicken in chlorinated water that is the problem, but rather the lower standards of animal welfare (such as crowded pens, droppings and infection risks) that this practice is intended to compensate for.
At the risk of exposing my ignorance, I wondered if chlorine is really such an unknown chemical in the UK. It struck me that in my own kitchen we also wash supermarket chicken in chlorinated water - when we run it under the tap. As far as I can work out the 4 parts per million in our tap water is lower than the 20-50 ppm typically found in the chicken wash, but it is perhaps just a matter of degree. Much higher concentrations are routinely used to sterilise babies' bottles. I'm not expert enough to know whether in general there are differences in the chlorine source, but think sodium hypochlorite and calcium hypochlorite are used in both tap water and some washes. I guess the point I'm driving at is that if we are so worried about chlorine then there are risks all around us, from tap water to infant bottle wash solution to the water in the swimming pool, that might concern us.
I accept that high animal welfare standards are the way to go, and that is where the bigger risk with US meat lies At the same time though I've eaten a lot of chicken in the US and Canada and never had a problem. Would the people who are expressing concern on this thread say that KFC is a definite 'no no' if they go on holiday to Florida? If so then Mexico, South Africa and quite a few other non-EU countries will also be KFC-free zones for you.
You are basically right.
Chlorinated chicken poses no health risks per se, but the practice is specifically designed to gloss over shortcomings in food safety in part related to animal welfare further up the production chain.
Did you know that in China it is common practice to bulk boil - typically male - ducklings alive prior to reclaiming the feather and down for various purposes?
Nothing wrong with the feather and down produced in this way whatsoever.
It is purely a question of ethics whether we would be agreeable to adopting such practices in this country freed from burdensome EU red tape. How far are we prepared to stoop in pursuit of profits?
But accepting imports of chlorinated chicken is almost certainly a precondition of entering into any post-Brexit free trade agreement with the US.
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:03 - Mar 1 by AnotherJohn
What you didn't say is whether you've ever had a KFC in the United States.
Why is that remotely relevant?
Doing something once or twice isn't equivalent to standard practice.
I'm rather glad that we have significantly higher food standards than the US. And significantly higher standards for animal welfare as well. Aren't you?
As an aside, anyone that routinely eats KFC isn't best placed to talk health, whichever country they live in.
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:11 - Mar 1 with 894 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 18:55 - Mar 1 by Shaky
You are basically right.
Chlorinated chicken poses no health risks per se, but the practice is specifically designed to gloss over shortcomings in food safety in part related to animal welfare further up the production chain.
Did you know that in China it is common practice to bulk boil - typically male - ducklings alive prior to reclaiming the feather and down for various purposes?
Nothing wrong with the feather and down produced in this way whatsoever.
It is purely a question of ethics whether we would be agreeable to adopting such practices in this country freed from burdensome EU red tape. How far are we prepared to stoop in pursuit of profits?
But accepting imports of chlorinated chicken is almost certainly a precondition of entering into any post-Brexit free trade agreement with the US.
. . .On second thoughts poor animal welfare standards can pose significant threats to humans by providing fertile breeding grounds for diseases like Avian flu, prior to the cholorination process.
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:05 - Mar 1 by Humpty
No I didn't as that would have been irrelevant.
I haven't BTW.
We won't belabour this discussion too much, but my take was that the difference between 5 ppm and 0.5 ppm in just one example that I provided (and with an uncertainty marker in the sentence at that) did nothing to invalidate my wider argument. I rather thought that your response picked on a detail to deliberately miss the wider point. Many of us use sterilisation products and public swimming pools . There is quite a lot of chlorine in our environment as it is a common disinfectant. As Shaky said the real issue is animal welfare standards not chlorine.
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:21 - Mar 1 with 875 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:08 - Mar 1 by londonlisa2001
Why is that remotely relevant?
Doing something once or twice isn't equivalent to standard practice.
I'm rather glad that we have significantly higher food standards than the US. And significantly higher standards for animal welfare as well. Aren't you?
As an aside, anyone that routinely eats KFC isn't best placed to talk health, whichever country they live in.
I used KFC as a colloquial example, but the real point is that people do eat a great deal of chicken in various forms in North America (and many countries that accept US chicken imports) and don't seem to regard this as a big problem. I have lived for several months at a time in a few stints in both the US and Canada, and eating chicken is not considered a major health risk. Do you have any epidemiological data to suggest that it is?
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:23 - Mar 1 with 868 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:14 - Mar 1 by AnotherJohn
We won't belabour this discussion too much, but my take was that the difference between 5 ppm and 0.5 ppm in just one example that I provided (and with an uncertainty marker in the sentence at that) did nothing to invalidate my wider argument. I rather thought that your response picked on a detail to deliberately miss the wider point. Many of us use sterilisation products and public swimming pools . There is quite a lot of chlorine in our environment as it is a common disinfectant. As Shaky said the real issue is animal welfare standards not chlorine.
In general, there are many substances where there is a safe limit for consumption and yet it becomes more dangerous above that.
The difference between 5ppm and 50ppm is substantial. Being safe at the lower limit (which is WHO btw, and therefore much higher than we would expect here, as shown by our levels being routinely 10x less than that), doesn't mean it's safe at the higher level.
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:29 - Mar 1 with 857 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:21 - Mar 1 by AnotherJohn
I used KFC as a colloquial example, but the real point is that people do eat a great deal of chicken in various forms in North America (and many countries that accept US chicken imports) and don't seem to regard this as a big problem. I have lived for several months at a time in a few stints in both the US and Canada, and eating chicken is not considered a major health risk. Do you have any epidemiological data to suggest that it is?
I didn't say it was.
I said I was glad we had higher standards of food safety and animal welfare.
I also said that those that routinely eat KFC are not best placed to talk about health.
But it really is utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:30 - Mar 1 with 856 views
The EU have been consistent throughout. The UK have been an absolute joke.
It is going as it was always going to go. Leave politicians simply lied to the public with their 'we will have our cake and eat it' nonsense to gain popularity and power for themselves. At any normal time Boris Johnson would be nowhere near any public position. Unfortunately we don't live in normal times and this mess is going to keep costing billions which should have gone to our NHS until it probably dies an embarrassing death.
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:35 - Mar 1 with 845 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:23 - Mar 1 by londonlisa2001
In general, there are many substances where there is a safe limit for consumption and yet it becomes more dangerous above that.
The difference between 5ppm and 50ppm is substantial. Being safe at the lower limit (which is WHO btw, and therefore much higher than we would expect here, as shown by our levels being routinely 10x less than that), doesn't mean it's safe at the higher level.
There is also a difference between drinking a liquid and using a liquid as a wash. The sterilisation products for cleaning infants' bottles contain much higher concentrations. Disinfectants I believe often contain about 1%.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2018 19:51]
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:40 - Mar 1 with 838 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:35 - Mar 1 by AnotherJohn
There is also a difference between drinking a liquid and using a liquid as a wash. The sterilisation products for cleaning infants' bottles contain much higher concentrations. Disinfectants I believe often contain about 1%.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2018 19:51]
5 mg / l is the same as 5 ppm.
Edit: lol at your edit. Oops :-)
As we were,
[Post edited 1 Mar 2018 20:00]
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Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 20:12 - Mar 1 with 782 views
Is the EU trying to give the UK an agreement they can't accept? on 19:52 - Mar 1 by londonlisa2001
5 mg / l is the same as 5 ppm.
Edit: lol at your edit. Oops :-)
As we were,
[Post edited 1 Mar 2018 20:00]
Yes, I scrubbed my swimming pool example before I saw your post,, I must admit that you held your end up well. I still think though that the point about the concentration of disinfectants is valid. Water mains for example are cleaned out with high concentrations of chlorine.
In any event the animal welfare angle is the main point.
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