| Cooper on Contracts on 20:35 - Dec 7 with 749 views | thornabyswan |
| Cooper on Contracts on 20:21 - Dec 7 by Dr_Winston |
Yay, more experts in body language.
We've always been late in opening contract negotiations. That part goes as far back as the last time we were at this level. To a certain extent Birch's hands are tied as we simply don't know what level of income there will be in six months time. |
Pretty safe to assume we will be playing in the Championship next season I think.
Our first season after relegation was funded by parachute money and sales in excess of 40 million.
The second was funded by lower parachute payments and the sales of Mcburnie and James 35 million approximately.
Now we have little in the way of assets to sell bar the training facilities and maybe 1 or 2 players of value.
The owners have not invested a dollar in the team since they arrived
Birch needs to find a buyer or we are in for a very bumpy ride. [Post edited 7 Dec 2019 20:38]
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| Cooper on Contracts on 20:40 - Dec 7 with 743 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cooper on Contracts on 20:35 - Dec 7 by thornabyswan |
Pretty safe to assume we will be playing in the Championship next season I think.
Our first season after relegation was funded by parachute money and sales in excess of 40 million.
The second was funded by lower parachute payments and the sales of Mcburnie and James 35 million approximately.
Now we have little in the way of assets to sell bar the training facilities and maybe 1 or 2 players of value.
The owners have not invested a dollar in the team since they arrived
Birch needs to find a buyer or we are in for a very bumpy ride. [Post edited 7 Dec 2019 20:38]
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In a division this unpredictable it's somewhat foolish to assume anything.
The club is on a fairly stable financial footing in the short term. If we weren't then neither Baston or Ayew would still be here this season. If we don't go up then both will depart in the summer (Baston might even go next month). The sales of McBurnie and James enabled the club to take the risk of keeping them, a risk which may or may not pay off.
As many players as we've moved out, we've still got plenty on PL wages (Carroll, Naughton, one or two others) which is unsustainable on Championship income in the long run. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 21:00 - Dec 7 with 714 views | thornabyswan |
| Cooper on Contracts on 20:40 - Dec 7 by Dr_Winston |
In a division this unpredictable it's somewhat foolish to assume anything.
The club is on a fairly stable financial footing in the short term. If we weren't then neither Baston or Ayew would still be here this season. If we don't go up then both will depart in the summer (Baston might even go next month). The sales of McBurnie and James enabled the club to take the risk of keeping them, a risk which may or may not pay off.
As many players as we've moved out, we've still got plenty on PL wages (Carroll, Naughton, one or two others) which is unsustainable on Championship income in the long run. |
Once the Sky revenue dries up we will need some investment into the club.
Income streams will be significantly lower next season and with 16 players out of contract or returning to their parent clubs I fear for next season with the current owners.
Hope I am wrong but thats how I see it. | |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 21:14 - Dec 7 with 707 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:00 - Dec 7 by thornabyswan |
Once the Sky revenue dries up we will need some investment into the club.
Income streams will be significantly lower next season and with 16 players out of contract or returning to their parent clubs I fear for next season with the current owners.
Hope I am wrong but thats how I see it. |
We didn't need "investment" into the club last time we got promoted, we don't need it now. What we need is for the club to be run sustainably within it's own income streams and a decent recruitment strategy.
"Investment" is either debt, or subsidy. Neither of which is particularly palatable. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 21:28 - Dec 7 with 682 views | Luther27 |
| Cooper on Contracts on 20:21 - Dec 7 by Dr_Winston |
Yay, more experts in body language.
We've always been late in opening contract negotiations. That part goes as far back as the last time we were at this level. To a certain extent Birch's hands are tied as we simply don't know what level of income there will be in six months time. |
The current reality is that in six months we are 14 contracted players I believe. That's based loosely on what I've read on PS. I've not heard rumours positive or negative from the club to counteract this. | | | |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:47 - Dec 7 with 670 views | thornabyswan |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:14 - Dec 7 by Dr_Winston |
We didn't need "investment" into the club last time we got promoted, we don't need it now. What we need is for the club to be run sustainably within it's own income streams and a decent recruitment strategy.
"Investment" is either debt, or subsidy. Neither of which is particularly palatable. |
We were not being run by hedge funders last time we got promoted either.
Also we were never in a position where we could lose so many players.
The lack of communication from the owners says plenty for me.
They could not give a toss for the club or its supporters. | |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 21:54 - Dec 7 with 661 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:47 - Dec 7 by thornabyswan |
We were not being run by hedge funders last time we got promoted either.
Also we were never in a position where we could lose so many players.
The lack of communication from the owners says plenty for me.
They could not give a toss for the club or its supporters. |
We were being run by people whose only interest was making a profit. What's changed?
I'm sorry, but I'll never get on board with the demands for "investment". The club can only be sensibly run in the long term within its own ability to generate income. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 21:57 - Dec 7 with 656 views | monmouth |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:54 - Dec 7 by Dr_Winston |
We were being run by people whose only interest was making a profit. What's changed?
I'm sorry, but I'll never get on board with the demands for "investment". The club can only be sensibly run in the long term within its own ability to generate income. |
After Bolton, you'd think people might have more sense. |  |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 21:59 - Dec 7 with 645 views | Luther27 |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:47 - Dec 7 by thornabyswan |
We were not being run by hedge funders last time we got promoted either.
Also we were never in a position where we could lose so many players.
The lack of communication from the owners says plenty for me.
They could not give a toss for the club or its supporters. |
They don't want to lose money being a hedge fund or, more importantly their reputation. They've drawn a line in the sand to see how far they can push, and put a barrier between themselves and the fans in the shape of Birch who in turn brought Leon on board. | | | |
| Cooper on Contracts on 22:02 - Dec 7 with 647 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:57 - Dec 7 by monmouth |
After Bolton, you'd think people might have more sense. |
Football supporters gonna football support.
All most of them are interested in is how much their clubs spend. Whether or not those clubs can afford it is largely irrelevant in their thinking. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 22:06 - Dec 7 with 641 views | thornabyswan |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:57 - Dec 7 by monmouth |
After Bolton, you'd think people might have more sense. |
The last thing I want is for us to spend what we cant afford.
But with the numbers potentially leaving the club and the revenue streams so low we need some help.
No other club in the EFL has received the kind of fees we have over the last 2 seasons.
The club needs a total overhaul in the summer hopefully with new owners. | |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 04:10 - Dec 8 with 579 views | TimTtam |
| Cooper on Contracts on 15:21 - Dec 7 by pencoedjack |
Why would he sign a new contract with us when he can negotiate a signing on fee for himself & bigger wages due to signing for his new club on a free?
Ramsey did the same when he signed for Juve |
It's very likely this will happen, I know. But the club need to offer the contract anyway. He's probably going to walk for free anyway, but we should at least try to get a fee. Why did he sign the contract last season and not walk? |  |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 07:26 - Dec 8 with 502 views | glanmORJa_k |
Can we get the facts straight.
Swans had a Year option last May on Hoorn's contract and took it up. The player refused to sign a new contract during last season and has repeatedly turned down a new contract this season, so unless the club get a cash offer for him during January, and the player decides to take it, Hoorn will be off next May on a Bosman free transfer. | | | |
| Cooper on Contracts on 07:34 - Dec 8 with 529 views | TimTtam |
| Cooper on Contracts on 07:26 - Dec 8 by glanmORJa_k |
Can we get the facts straight.
Swans had a Year option last May on Hoorn's contract and took it up. The player refused to sign a new contract during last season and has repeatedly turned down a new contract this season, so unless the club get a cash offer for him during January, and the player decides to take it, Hoorn will be off next May on a Bosman free transfer. |
I genuinely forgot about the clause. Thanks.
If we go into freefall, and I mean bad as in 15th or lower by mid January, we should try offload him for some sort of fee. It seems there is no chance he'll sign any sort of contract. | |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 08:35 - Dec 8 with 513 views | thornabyswan |
| Cooper on Contracts on 21:14 - Dec 7 by Dr_Winston |
We didn't need "investment" into the club last time we got promoted, we don't need it now. What we need is for the club to be run sustainably within it's own income streams and a decent recruitment strategy.
"Investment" is either debt, or subsidy. Neither of which is particularly palatable. |
Yes we dont want unsustainable debt.
But since relegation we have received a net profit over 90 million in transfer fees and received 75 million in parachute payments another 15 million due.
Yet we are still plugging gaps.
Next to go will be the training facilities Joe Rodon Conor Roberts and the microwave and kettle.
Come on yes we needed savings but this lot are taking the pi$$.
They put Birch in to appease the more gullible who then appointed Leon.
[Post edited 8 Dec 2019 8:41]
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| Cooper on Contracts on 10:00 - Dec 8 with 467 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Cooper on Contracts on 20:40 - Dec 7 by Dr_Winston |
In a division this unpredictable it's somewhat foolish to assume anything.
The club is on a fairly stable financial footing in the short term. If we weren't then neither Baston or Ayew would still be here this season. If we don't go up then both will depart in the summer (Baston might even go next month). The sales of McBurnie and James enabled the club to take the risk of keeping them, a risk which may or may not pay off.
As many players as we've moved out, we've still got plenty on PL wages (Carroll, Naughton, one or two others) which is unsustainable on Championship income in the long run. |
Stable financial footing? Doesn’t Birch say differently?
We didn’t get shot of Ayew or Borja because we couldn’t find anyone to take them, if we did they were gone and it’s as simple as that. [Post edited 8 Dec 2019 10:04]
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| Cooper on Contracts on 10:06 - Dec 8 with 453 views | monmouth |
| Cooper on Contracts on 07:34 - Dec 8 by TimTtam |
I genuinely forgot about the clause. Thanks.
If we go into freefall, and I mean bad as in 15th or lower by mid January, we should try offload him for some sort of fee. It seems there is no chance he'll sign any sort of contract. |
Look, we can’t ‘offload’ him. He is fully in control of getting the best deal for him. That will involve him getting a signing on fee instead of the club getting a transfer fee. He doesn’t want to be here and will walk at the end of the season unless someone offers HIM a sweeter deal in January and pays the club. But why would anyone with half a brain do that? Unless they think he’ll save them from PL relegation, in which case they don’t have half a brain anyway.
If we miraculously went up, he’d want to stay then, and we would hopefully tell him to sling his hook. | |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 10:11 - Dec 8 with 448 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cooper on Contracts on 10:00 - Dec 8 by 34dfgdf54 |
Stable financial footing? Doesn’t Birch say differently?
We didn’t get shot of Ayew or Borja because we couldn’t find anyone to take them, if we did they were gone and it’s as simple as that. [Post edited 8 Dec 2019 10:04]
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There's been plenty of reportage about opportunities for both to leave. Ayew in particular has been vocal about the offers he had. People can choose not to believe it if they wish.
Had we not sold McBurnie and James they'd both be gone, however the income we received lessened the need to get them off the wage bill. However, if we're still in this division come the summer both of them (and probably a few others) will be off to get the wage bill below our expected income, which will take another significant hit as the PP drops again. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 10:16 - Dec 8 with 446 views | thornabyswan |
| Cooper on Contracts on 10:11 - Dec 8 by Dr_Winston |
There's been plenty of reportage about opportunities for both to leave. Ayew in particular has been vocal about the offers he had. People can choose not to believe it if they wish.
Had we not sold McBurnie and James they'd both be gone, however the income we received lessened the need to get them off the wage bill. However, if we're still in this division come the summer both of them (and probably a few others) will be off to get the wage bill below our expected income, which will take another significant hit as the PP drops again. |
180 million in profit from transfers and parachute payments since relegation.
Still plugging are we | |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 10:26 - Dec 8 with 435 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cooper on Contracts on 10:16 - Dec 8 by thornabyswan |
180 million in profit from transfers and parachute payments since relegation.
Still plugging are we |
Profit is whats left once costs are covered. Do you have any idea what the costs are? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 10:44 - Dec 8 with 424 views | thornabyswan |
| Cooper on Contracts on 10:26 - Dec 8 by Dr_Winston |
Profit is whats left once costs are covered. Do you have any idea what the costs are? |
Well we offloaded 16 players after relegation.
So the wage bill will have dropped significantly.
Parachute payments are there to bridge the gap.
All I can say is no other football league club has received the transfer fees we have over the last 2 years and we are still in a difficult place according to Birch.
The trust had limited access to the books and could see no wrong doing but why were they not given full access if all is ok.
Yes Jenkins mis managed us but the transfer fees and parachute payments are huge.
All the owners need to do is give the Trust a look at the books with the detail they require.
That would remove the mis trust surrounding them. [Post edited 8 Dec 2019 10:46]
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| Cooper on Contracts on 11:12 - Dec 8 with 403 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cooper on Contracts on 10:44 - Dec 8 by thornabyswan |
Well we offloaded 16 players after relegation.
So the wage bill will have dropped significantly.
Parachute payments are there to bridge the gap.
All I can say is no other football league club has received the transfer fees we have over the last 2 years and we are still in a difficult place according to Birch.
The trust had limited access to the books and could see no wrong doing but why were they not given full access if all is ok.
Yes Jenkins mis managed us but the transfer fees and parachute payments are huge.
All the owners need to do is give the Trust a look at the books with the detail they require.
That would remove the mis trust surrounding them. [Post edited 8 Dec 2019 10:46]
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Our wage bill on relegation was around £100m. Our projected income was only just over half that. Even with the players who left I'd be surprised if our wage bill didn't exceed the PP. We've spent money out on some players, and no doubt still owed some out for players previously purchased.
Our projected income for this season is £30m of PP plus whatever else we can make. Odds are our wage bill is still significantly more than that. We'll still have players on good Prem contracts at the club. Players like VdH, Carroll & Naughton. Like I said earlier, the sales of McBurnie and James have given us a certain breathing space and the choice to not move Baston & Ayew on, but those wages are still on the clubs books and will still have to be dealt with at some point.
That PP will drop again next summer, so our wage bill will still have to. No other club might have received our transfer fees, but plenty will be up to the eyeballs in debt, reliant on subsidy or resorting to the kind of dodgy machinations seen in Sheffield and Derby.
Maybe I'm wrong and millions have been spirited away. I can't see that there are any spare millions mind, but it might have happened. There's a set of accounts due in April. Be interesting to see what's in them as the company doing the audit has recently changed. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cooper on Contracts on 11:48 - Dec 8 with 384 views | thornabyswan |
| Cooper on Contracts on 11:12 - Dec 8 by Dr_Winston |
Our wage bill on relegation was around £100m. Our projected income was only just over half that. Even with the players who left I'd be surprised if our wage bill didn't exceed the PP. We've spent money out on some players, and no doubt still owed some out for players previously purchased.
Our projected income for this season is £30m of PP plus whatever else we can make. Odds are our wage bill is still significantly more than that. We'll still have players on good Prem contracts at the club. Players like VdH, Carroll & Naughton. Like I said earlier, the sales of McBurnie and James have given us a certain breathing space and the choice to not move Baston & Ayew on, but those wages are still on the clubs books and will still have to be dealt with at some point.
That PP will drop again next summer, so our wage bill will still have to. No other club might have received our transfer fees, but plenty will be up to the eyeballs in debt, reliant on subsidy or resorting to the kind of dodgy machinations seen in Sheffield and Derby.
Maybe I'm wrong and millions have been spirited away. I can't see that there are any spare millions mind, but it might have happened. There's a set of accounts due in April. Be interesting to see what's in them as the company doing the audit has recently changed. |
Yes lets see what the next set of accounts show.
But scepticism and suspicion has engulfed them since they bought the club partly due to the way the sale was conducted.
A more open policy towards the trust and the fan base would go a long way to fixing that. [Post edited 8 Dec 2019 11:52]
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| Cooper on Contracts on 12:00 - Dec 8 with 374 views | BillyChong |
| Cooper on Contracts on 11:12 - Dec 8 by Dr_Winston |
Our wage bill on relegation was around £100m. Our projected income was only just over half that. Even with the players who left I'd be surprised if our wage bill didn't exceed the PP. We've spent money out on some players, and no doubt still owed some out for players previously purchased.
Our projected income for this season is £30m of PP plus whatever else we can make. Odds are our wage bill is still significantly more than that. We'll still have players on good Prem contracts at the club. Players like VdH, Carroll & Naughton. Like I said earlier, the sales of McBurnie and James have given us a certain breathing space and the choice to not move Baston & Ayew on, but those wages are still on the clubs books and will still have to be dealt with at some point.
That PP will drop again next summer, so our wage bill will still have to. No other club might have received our transfer fees, but plenty will be up to the eyeballs in debt, reliant on subsidy or resorting to the kind of dodgy machinations seen in Sheffield and Derby.
Maybe I'm wrong and millions have been spirited away. I can't see that there are any spare millions mind, but it might have happened. There's a set of accounts due in April. Be interesting to see what's in them as the company doing the audit has recently changed. |
What you mean by spent out on players? £500k during the summer? | | | |
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