| NHS doomed still? 12:00 - Apr 27 with 4310 views | Professor |
As some of you may be aware, there have been some right-wing commentators bleating how the problems with the epidemic show the NHS is not fit-for-purpose. I genuinely worry in 18 months time this 'failure' will be highlighted as a way to change the structure to and insurance-based system entirely. Is this just my paranoia or anyone else worry about this. It will be sold as out hard working NHS professionals are let down by an archaic system. |  | | |  |
| NHS doomed still? on 12:45 - Apr 28 with 822 views | Catullus |
| NHS doomed still? on 10:00 - Apr 28 by monmouth |
The first step is to stop the denial and the myths and accept:
We do not have 'the best health service in the world'. There are better models now.
Choices on treatment have to be made (by doctors preferably)
There is risk to entering a hospital or surgery that should not be compensated by money
'Competition' is not necessary and neither are 'markets', internal or otherwise
health care and social care need to be joined again.
Excellent health and social care needs high (progressive) taxes
100bn is better spent on healthcare than things like rail vanity projects
Health (and education) are not for political gameplaying
Queue jumping through paying privately is unethical.
I guess the first decision is what it is actually for though. Safety net or everyman service for some things or everything.
Nothing will happen of course, except continuing the same trajectory that we are on and more and more bullshit from politicians, and bullying and silencing of staff. |
I think the EPL demonstrates perfectly what free market capitalism really does, it keeps the rich and powerful in their ivory towers and prevents most of us from ever getting close to them.
I always start to sound Communist when I get on this particular high horse!
The NHS spends many millions ecery year on compensation and hush money and that's wrong. If any medical staff do anything negligent then punish them. Giving massive payouts only encourages ever more claims but the root of the problem often gets left in place. | |
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| NHS doomed still? on 12:51 - Apr 28 with 812 views | longlostjack |
| NHS doomed still? on 10:00 - Apr 28 by monmouth |
The first step is to stop the denial and the myths and accept:
We do not have 'the best health service in the world'. There are better models now.
Choices on treatment have to be made (by doctors preferably)
There is risk to entering a hospital or surgery that should not be compensated by money
'Competition' is not necessary and neither are 'markets', internal or otherwise
health care and social care need to be joined again.
Excellent health and social care needs high (progressive) taxes
100bn is better spent on healthcare than things like rail vanity projects
Health (and education) are not for political gameplaying
Queue jumping through paying privately is unethical.
I guess the first decision is what it is actually for though. Safety net or everyman service for some things or everything.
Nothing will happen of course, except continuing the same trajectory that we are on and more and more bullshit from politicians, and bullying and silencing of staff. |
I agree with most of that. I‘d caution about rushing towards an insurance based system. There is also a great deal of waste within the German system with untold insurance administrations basically offering the same product. It‘s just a guess but I‘d wager that central procurement of medicines also means that the NHS gets a better deal in their negotiations with pharmaceutical companies and medical equipment suppliers. |  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 12:58 - Apr 28 with 804 views | Dr_Winston |
| NHS doomed still? on 12:51 - Apr 28 by longlostjack |
I agree with most of that. I‘d caution about rushing towards an insurance based system. There is also a great deal of waste within the German system with untold insurance administrations basically offering the same product. It‘s just a guess but I‘d wager that central procurement of medicines also means that the NHS gets a better deal in their negotiations with pharmaceutical companies and medical equipment suppliers. |
Good point.
I don't think any system as large and unwieldy as a nationwide healthcare system can ever be perfect no matter how much money gets thrown at it, but we can't be afraid of looking elsewhere at things that work better and look to see if they can be implemented here, no matter how unpalatable some may find it.
The absolute thing that must be avoided is a US style system where medical debt leads to so much misery for so many. As long as people aren't directly charged for vital treatment then any options should be on the table. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NHS doomed still? on 16:45 - Apr 28 with 753 views | ploppy |
| NHS doomed still? on 10:00 - Apr 28 by monmouth |
The first step is to stop the denial and the myths and accept:
We do not have 'the best health service in the world'. There are better models now.
Choices on treatment have to be made (by doctors preferably)
There is risk to entering a hospital or surgery that should not be compensated by money
'Competition' is not necessary and neither are 'markets', internal or otherwise
health care and social care need to be joined again.
Excellent health and social care needs high (progressive) taxes
100bn is better spent on healthcare than things like rail vanity projects
Health (and education) are not for political gameplaying
Queue jumping through paying privately is unethical.
I guess the first decision is what it is actually for though. Safety net or everyman service for some things or everything.
Nothing will happen of course, except continuing the same trajectory that we are on and more and more bullshit from politicians, and bullying and silencing of staff. |
Absolutely agree on your first point, and until we get past that the NHS won't get fixed. I'm not sure where the "NHS is the envy of the world" mantra came from. When I lived abroad, the NHS certainly wasn't viewed that way - in fact it was often a source of ridicule, including for ex-pat Brits. And before anyone gets all political, I lived abroad during the Labour years. Personally, I don't think simply throwing more money at the NHS is going to fix it. It needs a complete re-think. Won't happen, no matter which party's in power. | | | |
| NHS doomed still? on 16:46 - Apr 28 with 753 views | Dr_Winston |
| NHS doomed still? on 20:43 - Apr 27 by Catullus |
My wife has worked in the NHS for over 20 years for 2 trusts and her most common complaint is the amount of waste. Then she moves onto why does a packet of paracetamol is asda cost 16p but it costs the NHS £7? This devolved NHS system is costing a fortune is all these different procurement depts, all the extra admin costs and of course, there's the postcode lottery for treatment. |
That seems to be the rule for Government purchasing in general. I've seen the price tag for things that have been bought that have cost 4/5 times as much as you could get them for by nipping to Argos.
Supposedly this is cheaper than giving each manager of each location a budget that they can spend themselves, but I'd love to see the rationale behind it. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NHS doomed still? on 17:16 - Apr 28 with 730 views | monmouth |
| NHS doomed still? on 16:45 - Apr 28 by ploppy |
Absolutely agree on your first point, and until we get past that the NHS won't get fixed. I'm not sure where the "NHS is the envy of the world" mantra came from. When I lived abroad, the NHS certainly wasn't viewed that way - in fact it was often a source of ridicule, including for ex-pat Brits. And before anyone gets all political, I lived abroad during the Labour years. Personally, I don't think simply throwing more money at the NHS is going to fix it. It needs a complete re-think. Won't happen, no matter which party's in power. |
It's because the doctors and nurses within it are generally magnificent in keeping the whole thing going, and some of the managers to be fair.
That said, I was quite shocked at some of the sloppiness I saw on the wards when my father was in hospital last year mind you, but when you have so many patients I suppose it is hard to be as individually caring. When the chips were down though and he was moved to IC, they were nothing short of magnificent.
They deserve far better than the hand they have been dealt by successive Governments failing to be honest about what such a service is for, can hope to achieve, and can be funded. Like many other things, it seems a grown up debate is impossible before it can even start. Drowned out by dogma, emotion, nostalgia and rose tinted shit. Ditto drugs, education, defence, Europe.....well just about anything really. We are a very juvenile country, or for those that prefer four very juvenile countries. it comes to something when Nicola Sturgeon looks like a grown up. |  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 19:39 - Apr 28 with 697 views | jack2jack |
I sincerely hope not. |  | | |
| NHS doomed still? on 21:06 - Apr 28 with 655 views | Catullus |
| NHS doomed still? on 17:16 - Apr 28 by monmouth |
It's because the doctors and nurses within it are generally magnificent in keeping the whole thing going, and some of the managers to be fair.
That said, I was quite shocked at some of the sloppiness I saw on the wards when my father was in hospital last year mind you, but when you have so many patients I suppose it is hard to be as individually caring. When the chips were down though and he was moved to IC, they were nothing short of magnificent.
They deserve far better than the hand they have been dealt by successive Governments failing to be honest about what such a service is for, can hope to achieve, and can be funded. Like many other things, it seems a grown up debate is impossible before it can even start. Drowned out by dogma, emotion, nostalgia and rose tinted shit. Ditto drugs, education, defence, Europe.....well just about anything really. We are a very juvenile country, or for those that prefer four very juvenile countries. it comes to something when Nicola Sturgeon looks like a grown up. |
That brings me back to my point about Trident. Our politicians are still behaving like we are a global power and we're not. I don't need or want Nukes, I'd rather they were binned and 2 billion extra per year given to the conventional army because they aren't just there to fight wars.
For our NHS I don't think it was intended (because it didn't exist) to be used for Cosmetic surgery. We need more (and more effective) mental health services. Likewise artificial insemination, I'm sorry but if you can't concieve that's just the way it is.
The NHS should also be looking more closely at prevention, like they do in Germany. Sorry to harp on about hip replacements again but why are people below a certain age refused them, or why are they given to 90 year olds first? If my hip had been done in the same time frame as in Germany, I'd still have a job. Now no one wants to give me a job, they can't say it but when they know I'll be taking t least 6-8 weeks off for an op and I can't tell them when it'll happen, they appoint a fit person. How many would still be in work if they could get their operation quickly?
There is so, so much that needs looking at and fixing and a lot of it could be quite controversial. We have to start thinking in a different way if the NHS is to be a world beater again. | |
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