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How do you see it ending up? Personally can see labour loosing quite a few votes to plaid not enough to make a significant difference though. Can see the tories doing better than expected but abolish taking votes off them. Odds on labour plaid coalition. Constituency changes can't see many. Plaid to take llanelli and maybe Carmarthen west and south pembs with outside chance Caerphilly, Cardiff west Tories to take Bridgend and maybe one or two up north east Wales. Labour not to win any new seats
'The UK is stuffed, the only way forward is independence'.
Well said again Tenby.
Put another way, if the UK govt had spent at the same rate as the Welsh govt on these aspects of T&T/PPE (and remember there's a lot more that's reserved UK govt spending) it would have saved itself a staggering £8.9B
Put another way, if the UK govt had spent at the same rate as the Welsh govt on these aspects of T&T/PPE (and remember there's a lot more that's reserved UK govt spending) it would have saved itself a staggering £8.9B
An M4 relief road is fine, but nobody will ever convince me that driving at least four lanes of tarmac between North and South Wales, desecrating some of the prettiest landscape in the country would be worthwhile.
Anyway, at this point I'm willing to vote for whatever party promises to abolish minimum unit pricing, as long as it's not Plaid. I do still have some standards.
[Post edited 9 Apr 2021 7:06]
1 litre bottle of Famous Grouse Whiskey on offer in ASDA this week £15.98.
Put another way, if the UK govt had spent at the same rate as the Welsh govt on these aspects of T&T/PPE (and remember there's a lot more that's reserved UK govt spending) it would have saved itself a staggering £8.9B
Certainly can't afford to leave thereby suffering the loss of the annual UK taxpayers subsidy of over £ 9 billion a year. Can those if favour of welsh independence of the UK but in favour of giving up independence to the EU please explain how they will replace the funding.
If you click the post it will take you to the link and you can read it for yourself.
What a lazy fecker you are ...!
Nah, I prefer to trigger you
Edit, so I clicked on the link and it still didn't tell me anything useful. We ll know T&T has been a disaster, we all know PPE was a disaster but Wales was hardly in a better position.
That means voting Plaid, John. What I have seen and read (including my email exchange with Rhun ap Iorwerth) leads me to believe they are a bunch of clowns.
How will they pay for all their promises? That's before you realise that many of those promises, even if fully funded, cannot be carried out unless Westmisnter transfers powers. That isn't going to happen.
Answer me this John, how will Plaid afford cutting £200 of EVERY council tax bill? There are around 1.4 million households in Wales, that's £280 million less the Welsh government would have to spend. Then the promise for a job for every 16-24 year old, how much will that cost? They promise the Welsh economy will pay high wages, how is that possible? One of my favourites this, Racism, misogyny and other forms of discrimination and intolerance will be eradicated, as desirable as this is how can he promise that by 2030? People will live longer, fitter lives? How, is he going to make being overweight a crime? Is he going to force people to eat healthily and get exercise?
Raed this, John, and tell me which bits of it are actually deliverable,
At every turn he is promising to cut costs and spend more, it's completely cuckoo. Even if he put all council tax bills up by £200 he couldn't pay for all his promises. Then of course, the promise for an indyref in the first 5 years, as if any Westminster government is going to agree to that unless a huge majority in Wales want it.
When I see manifesto pledges I take it all with a hefty dose of scepticism. That applies to ALL parties. It's like being in a sweet shop where all the sweets are free.
But they all do the same. The Tories have pledged 65,000 new jobs, 3000 more nurses, 1200 doctors, new hospitals (they don't say how many but very expensive). I didn't see it during the quick check I did but i'm sure they said 100,000 new houses.
Labour promised the REAL living wage (£9.50 an hour - very expensive because it would apply to a huge percentage of the working population), 20,000 low carbon social rent homes (never mind the non social rent ones), 12000 new medical staff, a young persons guarantee (job, training etc) for all under 25's.
I didn't bother with the others.
PC say, as all parties always do, that their manifesto is 'fully costed', and that they'd have different priorities from the other parties to pay for it. I can't argue because I don't know how ANY of them would achieve what they promise.
Re a job for 16-24 year olds. Perhaps they'll use the benefits saved by creating the job to subsidise the cost to the employer who gives them the job. That's just a random thought of mine. I haven't a clue how they'll do it. But with Rishi in charge I somehow can't imagine he'd pass the money on to Plaid to allow them to do that.
In the end it all comes down to who do you trust to do the best for Wales. I trust Welsh people to do the best for Wales. I fail to understand how anyone can argue that point.
When Wales is Independent we will elect the Government we want. And if they fail we will vote them out and elect someone else. The choice will be ours. No one elses.
When I see manifesto pledges I take it all with a hefty dose of scepticism. That applies to ALL parties. It's like being in a sweet shop where all the sweets are free.
But they all do the same. The Tories have pledged 65,000 new jobs, 3000 more nurses, 1200 doctors, new hospitals (they don't say how many but very expensive). I didn't see it during the quick check I did but i'm sure they said 100,000 new houses.
Labour promised the REAL living wage (£9.50 an hour - very expensive because it would apply to a huge percentage of the working population), 20,000 low carbon social rent homes (never mind the non social rent ones), 12000 new medical staff, a young persons guarantee (job, training etc) for all under 25's.
I didn't bother with the others.
PC say, as all parties always do, that their manifesto is 'fully costed', and that they'd have different priorities from the other parties to pay for it. I can't argue because I don't know how ANY of them would achieve what they promise.
Re a job for 16-24 year olds. Perhaps they'll use the benefits saved by creating the job to subsidise the cost to the employer who gives them the job. That's just a random thought of mine. I haven't a clue how they'll do it. But with Rishi in charge I somehow can't imagine he'd pass the money on to Plaid to allow them to do that.
In the end it all comes down to who do you trust to do the best for Wales. I trust Welsh people to do the best for Wales. I fail to understand how anyone can argue that point.
When Wales is Independent we will elect the Government we want. And if they fail we will vote them out and elect someone else. The choice will be ours. No one elses.
" When Wales is independent" you will have a long long wait John, the Welsh people are not that gullible.
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
1 litre bottle of Famous Grouse Whiskey on offer in ASDA this week £15.98.
But in Wales £20, a difference of £4.02, crazy.
Interfering, nannying shite that will do nothing to stop problem drinking, but will inconvenience anyone who likes a tipple at the weekend.
An ill thought out policy nicked from the Jocks, where it's had absolutely no impact. Even worse, we knew it had had no impact there when they brought it in.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
Interfering, nannying shite that will do nothing to stop problem drinking, but will inconvenience anyone who likes a tipple at the weekend.
An ill thought out policy nicked from the Jocks, where it's had absolutely no impact. Even worse, we knew it had had no impact there when they brought it in.
Absolutely no impact at all, the sooner him and his circus of clowns are booted out the better.
I only hope that his sneaky plan of giving votes to kids is a spectacular own goal.
Absolutely no impact at all, the sooner him and his circus of clowns are booted out the better.
I only hope that his sneaky plan of giving votes to kids is a spectacular own goal.
There's a fairly strong argument to be made for increasing the voting age. Lowering it is a clear attempt to rake in votes from children with no idea how the world actually works yet.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
" When Wales is independent" you will have a long long wait John, the Welsh people are not that gullible.
what is it,80% against Indy. I reckon in working cla english speaking Wales it's more like 99%.
Plaid seen as nutters or language fascists
Thankfully most english people are welcomed by welsh people especially when their money provides work for a local workforce and their money goes straight in the tills of welsh people,wo apparently don't want them there. Confusing innit
There's a fairly strong argument to be made for increasing the voting age. Lowering it is a clear attempt to rake in votes from children with no idea how the world actually works yet.
He certainly wouldn't have lowered the voting age if he thought it wouldn't benefit him, as I say, he might have a surprise, as most of the youngsters I've spoken to can't stand the man.
He certainly wouldn't have lowered the voting age if he thought it wouldn't benefit him, as I say, he might have a surprise, as most of the youngsters I've spoken to can't stand the man.
You may be right. Most youngsters have been unnecessarily cooped up at home for the last year courtesy of the pointless "stay at home" restrictions. Be quite entertaining if there was a backlash.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
When I see manifesto pledges I take it all with a hefty dose of scepticism. That applies to ALL parties. It's like being in a sweet shop where all the sweets are free.
But they all do the same. The Tories have pledged 65,000 new jobs, 3000 more nurses, 1200 doctors, new hospitals (they don't say how many but very expensive). I didn't see it during the quick check I did but i'm sure they said 100,000 new houses.
Labour promised the REAL living wage (£9.50 an hour - very expensive because it would apply to a huge percentage of the working population), 20,000 low carbon social rent homes (never mind the non social rent ones), 12000 new medical staff, a young persons guarantee (job, training etc) for all under 25's.
I didn't bother with the others.
PC say, as all parties always do, that their manifesto is 'fully costed', and that they'd have different priorities from the other parties to pay for it. I can't argue because I don't know how ANY of them would achieve what they promise.
Re a job for 16-24 year olds. Perhaps they'll use the benefits saved by creating the job to subsidise the cost to the employer who gives them the job. That's just a random thought of mine. I haven't a clue how they'll do it. But with Rishi in charge I somehow can't imagine he'd pass the money on to Plaid to allow them to do that.
In the end it all comes down to who do you trust to do the best for Wales. I trust Welsh people to do the best for Wales. I fail to understand how anyone can argue that point.
When Wales is Independent we will elect the Government we want. And if they fail we will vote them out and elect someone else. The choice will be ours. No one elses.
I totally agree that all manifestos are rubbish, lies dressed up as intent. So why believe PC over indy? Tey cannot guarantee it either as they need Westminsters approvl before a legally binding vote. We can hold an advisory referendum of course.
It seems only Labour haven't pledged very much, that could be reality or a lack of ambition.
Isn't any government elected in Wales that is made up of residents of Wales duty bound to do the best they can, for ALL of Wales?
Don't we elect the government we want now? If not, just what do we elect? Whoever we elect is the choice of the electorate of Wales, indy doesn't change that. What you say about trusting Welsh people.....that could read badly to some people, do we only want Welsh people or do we want the BEST eligible people? Price, Drakeford and RT Davies are all Welsh and I don't trust any of them nor believe them capable. Price for example, I've seen him interviewd on TV by Felicity Evans and she ripped him apart. Then the answers I got from his deputy leader, Ap Iorwerth, they weren't good enough and he couldn't even answer all my questions, the deputy leader and he doesn't have a clue about some very important stuff. it's not good enough, none of them are.
If we are stuck with useless politicians we can at least have as few idiots in charge as possible.
Put another way, if the UK govt had spent at the same rate as the Welsh govt on these aspects of T&T/PPE (and remember there's a lot more that's reserved UK govt spending) it would have saved itself a staggering £8.9B
Where do we get our funding from? What will our economy be built around? What will our currency be? What would happen if the 'English' government put huge tariffs on our imports/exports to/from Wales/England? We need them more than they need us...crossing into England, what if they started charging to go into England? What about the Armed Forces, police service, NHS Fire service and so on...all of these are British, if we were 'indy' we'd have to start up our own interpretation of these services. Where would we get the funding to do it?
There are many many many more huge questions beyond these, have you and your lot really thought about it all?
PS Did you see the Plaid 'leader' getting schooled and humiliated in his interview last week ...he's the one I presume you want to lead us out of the UK
Where do we get our funding from? What will our economy be built around? What will our currency be? What would happen if the 'English' government put huge tariffs on our imports/exports to/from Wales/England? We need them more than they need us...crossing into England, what if they started charging to go into England? What about the Armed Forces, police service, NHS Fire service and so on...all of these are British, if we were 'indy' we'd have to start up our own interpretation of these services. Where would we get the funding to do it?
There are many many many more huge questions beyond these, have you and your lot really thought about it all?
PS Did you see the Plaid 'leader' getting schooled and humiliated in his interview last week ...he's the one I presume you want to lead us out of the UK
Where do we get our funding from? What will our economy be built around? What will our currency be? What would happen if the 'English' government put huge tariffs on our imports/exports to/from Wales/England? We need them more than they need us...crossing into England, what if they started charging to go into England? What about the Armed Forces, police service, NHS Fire service and so on...all of these are British, if we were 'indy' we'd have to start up our own interpretation of these services. Where would we get the funding to do it?
There are many many many more huge questions beyond these, have you and your lot really thought about it all?
PS Did you see the Plaid 'leader' getting schooled and humiliated in his interview last week ...he's the one I presume you want to lead us out of the UK
An interesting one I have asked previously is about Welsh NHS reliance on specialised English service providers.
Welsh patients are flown by RAF (where's the Welsh RAF?) Sea King to Elizabeth II Hospital in Birmingham for emergency liver surgery, have eye surgery at Moorfields Eye Hospital London, have heart surgery at Royal Papworth Hospital Cambridge and have cancer service provision at Clatterbridge Hospital Wirral etc, etc, etc.
With full independance the Welsh and English NHS will become two seperate organisations no longer under the same unbrella....Total disconnect! ....The Welsh NHS will then have to become totally self reliant!
Bear in mind major Welsh NHS reorganisation from English service loss would have to be overseen by a bunch of Yokels that cannot even get round to building desperately required roads after 22 years in power.
So I asked one of the 'cloud-cuckoo-land' man-child student activist minded Welsh Nats what is to happen in an event of full devolution? The reply to my answer was Welsh patients will be sent over to FRANCE!
Where do we get our funding from? What will our economy be built around? What will our currency be? What would happen if the 'English' government put huge tariffs on our imports/exports to/from Wales/England? We need them more than they need us...crossing into England, what if they started charging to go into England? What about the Armed Forces, police service, NHS Fire service and so on...all of these are British, if we were 'indy' we'd have to start up our own interpretation of these services. Where would we get the funding to do it?
There are many many many more huge questions beyond these, have you and your lot really thought about it all?
PS Did you see the Plaid 'leader' getting schooled and humiliated in his interview last week ...he's the one I presume you want to lead us out of the UK
They can never answer these important questions that is why less than 25% of us Welsh don't want independence. The same thing applies on Scotland when it dawns on them what the consequences are they change their minds. In the last independence referendum in Scotland they were ahead in all the polls until the day they had to vote then enough changed their minds to give the people who wanted to remain in the UK a significant majority.
Come on John, answer my questions please, plus, if you don't really believe manifestos why do you vote Plaid? Is it purely an Indy thing? As I already said without Qestminsters approval Wales cannot hold a legally binding referendum so what is the point really? Until Plaid have an SNP sized support they have no hope of a referendum so promising one within 5 years is just more lies.
Politicians, lying ot us since.......well, forever!
Put another way, if the UK govt had spent at the same rate as the Welsh govt on these aspects of T&T/PPE (and remember there's a lot more that's reserved UK govt spending) it would have saved itself a staggering £8.9B
An interesting one I have asked previously is about Welsh NHS reliance on specialised English service providers.
Welsh patients are flown by RAF (where's the Welsh RAF?) Sea King to Elizabeth II Hospital in Birmingham for emergency liver surgery, have eye surgery at Moorfields Eye Hospital London, have heart surgery at Royal Papworth Hospital Cambridge and have cancer service provision at Clatterbridge Hospital Wirral etc, etc, etc.
With full independance the Welsh and English NHS will become two seperate organisations no longer under the same unbrella....Total disconnect! ....The Welsh NHS will then have to become totally self reliant!
Bear in mind major Welsh NHS reorganisation from English service loss would have to be overseen by a bunch of Yokels that cannot even get round to building desperately required roads after 22 years in power.
So I asked one of the 'cloud-cuckoo-land' man-child student activist minded Welsh Nats what is to happen in an event of full devolution? The reply to my answer was Welsh patients will be sent over to FRANCE!
They live in a world like this....
[Post edited 10 Apr 2021 18:30]
Whilst having Chemo at Clatterbridge,my missus became quite chummy with a welsh lady from deepest welsh speaking north Wales on the next bed. Funnily enough ,she didnt mind speaking English which wouldnt have been the case if the said English doctor and nurses were in her home village renovating a house using local tradesmen and spending money on local products.
She was happy to be able to have her life saved by English doctors and nurses some of whom scousers too and on an English bed. Some of the anti English filth on here need to understand how their myopia will kill many lives should Wales be dumb enough to go Indy. Thankfully,it wont as most Welsh people are smart enough.
I totally agree that all manifestos are rubbish, lies dressed up as intent. So why believe PC over indy? Tey cannot guarantee it either as they need Westminsters approvl before a legally binding vote. We can hold an advisory referendum of course.
It seems only Labour haven't pledged very much, that could be reality or a lack of ambition.
Isn't any government elected in Wales that is made up of residents of Wales duty bound to do the best they can, for ALL of Wales?
Don't we elect the government we want now? If not, just what do we elect? Whoever we elect is the choice of the electorate of Wales, indy doesn't change that. What you say about trusting Welsh people.....that could read badly to some people, do we only want Welsh people or do we want the BEST eligible people? Price, Drakeford and RT Davies are all Welsh and I don't trust any of them nor believe them capable. Price for example, I've seen him interviewd on TV by Felicity Evans and she ripped him apart. Then the answers I got from his deputy leader, Ap Iorwerth, they weren't good enough and he couldn't even answer all my questions, the deputy leader and he doesn't have a clue about some very important stuff. it's not good enough, none of them are.
If we are stuck with useless politicians we can at least have as few idiots in charge as possible.
Why believe PC over indy ? I don't. I believe myself. I've made a reasonable effort to learn what I can. If others don't agree then that's their choice. And you're right in saying that they can't hold a referendum without Westminster's okay, similar to Scotland.
'Isn't any government elected in Wales that is made up of residents of Wales duty bound to do the best they can, for ALL of Wales?' - yes, albeit they are not all residents of Wales - Mark Reckless eg. How anyone votes for such a self serving person I don't know.
'Don't we elect the government we want now ?' Yes, we elect the Welsh Government but you know i'm talking about Westminster here. It doesn't matter what the people of Wales vote for in UK GE's we have virtually zero effect on that result. And whereas, rightly or wrongly, Wales elects a Labour Government we end up with no choice but to accept a Conservative Government in Westminster which holds almost all the levers of power over us.
'Don't we elect the government we want now? If not, just what do we elect? Whoever we elect is the choice of the electorate of Wales, indy doesn't change that'. Well of course Indy changes it. All of the power to run OUR country will be held in Wales.
Trusting only Welsh people to run the country - good point. Bad wording. If Wales was Independent whoever was elected to the Senedd, wherever they come from, would be answerable to the Welsh people. If they didn't perform they'd be voted out at the next election. And the best people for the job would hopefully be the ones elected.
'Price, Drakeford and RT Davies are all Welsh and I don't trust any of them nor believe them capable'. Many posters say things like this. Every single member of the Sennedd is useless. Let's have as few idiots in charge as possible you say. Westminster includes people like Gove, Raab, Patel and so on with Boris at the top of the pile. Are you saying you honestly believe those are the people who can/would do the best for Wales compared with Adam Price and Mark Drakeford ? Seriously ?
By the way, I didn't see the Adam Price interview. What programme was it ?
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...he's the one I presume you want to lead us out of the UK 
