| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... 09:25 - Apr 21 with 2713 views | Chief |
And a few others like Bournemouth are just better than us?
They both have essentially premier league squads. No one could argue we do. We've got some good players so on our day, we have beaten the big boys (at opportune times, albeit when they were weakened), but have been unable to sustain it over a whole season, which is what actually counts.
Do we really need to look for blame amongst the playing /coaching staff? Can't we just accept our position? [Post edited 21 Apr 2021 9:25]
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 12:01 - Apr 23 with 467 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:21 - Apr 23 by onehunglow |
"no" managers eh.
I cant beat that. |
“Almost no” I said.
There may well be exceptions. I highly doubt Cooper is one of those exceptions though.
He clearly makes suggestions, such as the young loanees. But doubt the more expensive ones will be much to do with him, just as player sales won’t be much to do with him. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 12:20 - Apr 23 with 454 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:50 - Apr 23 by Thornburyswan |
Interesting debate & I suspect if any of us had spent this season to date on Mars with no access to satellite sport or social media & had just returned to see the league with 3 games to go we’d be very pleased with progress from last season.
Unfortunately we weren’t on Mars & have had to suffer through the 43 games to date, where I suspect - before anyone gets excited this is a gut feel - we’ve have not played well & won on more than 6/7 of those 43 games. So whilst I am a fully paid up member of the league doesn’t lie & come season end you finish where you deserve too (give or take a place or two) let’s just say our results & points collected are well ahead of our quality of both play & squad - not in itself a huge issue but will always make you vulnerable to a more significant decline in future seasons e.g. Premiership decline once we changed style under Monk’s tenure.
As long as we either avoid defeat on Sunday or pick something up mid-week against Derby we will make the play-offs, probably 6th or at best 5th, but I would give us a at best 1 in 10 chance of succeeding vs Bournemouth or Brentford in a two leg semi (that improves to a 1 in 4/5 in a one off match) so for me the ‘manager issue’ is more about next season once we exit the play-offs. |
Fantastic post.
The only thing I disagree with is the manager issue part. Next season we will struggle because we will be losing key members of the squad and will not have the funds to invest in replacements. If playing wonderful football was as easy and telling the players to - then everyone would.
We will have funds for other loans and free/low fee transfers. But someone like Andre Ayew can’t really be adequately replaced by those, it’s a very tough task and next season will be tough.
We finished 6th last year and will be there or there abouts this season largely due to Cooper being an attraction for these loans who he has had success with before. Would we have finished anywhere near the play-offs without them, and instead relying on other free transfers? I just can’t see it.
I’m all for any change that has more than a good chance of improving us, be that on field or in management. But I just don’t see anyone who fits the bill who can operate on our budgets (including their own cost) that harbours a better record.
At this stage it feels more of a vendetta than accurate and valid appraisals. [Post edited 23 Apr 2021 13:57]
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 12:43 - Apr 23 with 435 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 12:20 - Apr 23 by Dr_Parnassus |
Fantastic post.
The only thing I disagree with is the manager issue part. Next season we will struggle because we will be losing key members of the squad and will not have the funds to invest in replacements. If playing wonderful football was as easy and telling the players to - then everyone would.
We will have funds for other loans and free/low fee transfers. But someone like Andre Ayew can’t really be adequately replaced by those, it’s a very tough task and next season will be tough.
We finished 6th last year and will be there or there abouts this season largely due to Cooper being an attraction for these loans who he has had success with before. Would we have finished anywhere near the play-offs without them, and instead relying on other free transfers? I just can’t see it.
I’m all for any change that has more than a good chance of improving us, be that on field or in management. But I just don’t see anyone who fits the bill who can operate on our budgets (including their own cost) that harbours a better record.
At this stage it feels more of a vendetta than accurate and valid appraisals. [Post edited 23 Apr 2021 13:57]
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There is certainly an argument based on the points you've made there that having Cooper and his contacts will be more important for us next season. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:06 - Apr 23 with 433 views | monmouth |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:47 - Apr 23 by Chief |
1 win in 9 for them now (which i believe coincides with them giving Mccarthy a permanent contract). 3 games left against teams fighting relegation all on good form and Mccarthys made noises about playing youngsters now they've got nothing to play for...... |
I'd LOVE to see them lose those last three. It would be highly amusing indeed. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:10 - Apr 23 with 405 views | jack247 |
There are elements of both here.
Our squad isn’t as strong as the three that came down and kept the bulk of their squads together. We couldn’t sign a £5m striker like Toney and pay him £5m player wages.
At the same time, we’ve dropped 14 points to Preston, Birmingham, Wycombe, Cardiff and QPR over the last few weeks. Even an average points tally against those 5 very average teams would have seen us there or thereabouts with Watford. Cooper has to take the flak there, just as he took the credit earlier on in the season.
However strong we are compared to the top teams, we’ve blown a huge chance at automatic promotion since the Cardiff game. |  | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:40 - Apr 23 with 399 views | Thornburyswan |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 12:20 - Apr 23 by Dr_Parnassus |
Fantastic post.
The only thing I disagree with is the manager issue part. Next season we will struggle because we will be losing key members of the squad and will not have the funds to invest in replacements. If playing wonderful football was as easy and telling the players to - then everyone would.
We will have funds for other loans and free/low fee transfers. But someone like Andre Ayew can’t really be adequately replaced by those, it’s a very tough task and next season will be tough.
We finished 6th last year and will be there or there abouts this season largely due to Cooper being an attraction for these loans who he has had success with before. Would we have finished anywhere near the play-offs without them, and instead relying on other free transfers? I just can’t see it.
I’m all for any change that has more than a good chance of improving us, be that on field or in management. But I just don’t see anyone who fits the bill who can operate on our budgets (including their own cost) that harbours a better record.
At this stage it feels more of a vendetta than accurate and valid appraisals. [Post edited 23 Apr 2021 13:57]
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Good points on the Cooper loan attraction point & that aspect would be difficult to replace with a new gaffer, although as a club I believe we have a decent reputation in that regard - we should free up a decent amount of wages space with current loanees + Ayew, Nauts, Routs & Freeman all likely to exit but I suspect our budget for transfer fees will be limited & that’s even if we sell Roberts.
Plus with Fulham, WBA & Sheffield United to add into the mix next season will be a tough one. | | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:47 - Apr 23 with 394 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:10 - Apr 23 by jack247 |
There are elements of both here.
Our squad isn’t as strong as the three that came down and kept the bulk of their squads together. We couldn’t sign a £5m striker like Toney and pay him £5m player wages.
At the same time, we’ve dropped 14 points to Preston, Birmingham, Wycombe, Cardiff and QPR over the last few weeks. Even an average points tally against those 5 very average teams would have seen us there or thereabouts with Watford. Cooper has to take the flak there, just as he took the credit earlier on in the season.
However strong we are compared to the top teams, we’ve blown a huge chance at automatic promotion since the Cardiff game. |
I see it a bit like a track race, some middle of the road sprinter getting the early lead on the likes of Usain Bolt and co and then being run down towards the line and coming 4th.
Hard to put blame on the guy or say he’s blown it, when he shouldn’t really be in that company for a medal anyway. Did extremely well to give himself a chance.
As much as it’s annoying to say, we aren’t even in the same realm as some of these clubs at the moment. Their squad values are twice the size, salary budgets twice the size and spending power ten fold. We are all hoping we never get to meet Bournemouth in the playoffs... there is a reason for that.
Many of our fans are too used to the good life and forgot what it was like pre Premier League - because we are back there and those days are long gone.
I’m just wondering how many managers we will end up going through before people come to terms with it and accept it. [Post edited 23 Apr 2021 14:58]
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 17:22 - Apr 23 with 364 views | jack247 |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:47 - Apr 23 by Dr_Parnassus |
I see it a bit like a track race, some middle of the road sprinter getting the early lead on the likes of Usain Bolt and co and then being run down towards the line and coming 4th.
Hard to put blame on the guy or say he’s blown it, when he shouldn’t really be in that company for a medal anyway. Did extremely well to give himself a chance.
As much as it’s annoying to say, we aren’t even in the same realm as some of these clubs at the moment. Their squad values are twice the size, salary budgets twice the size and spending power ten fold. We are all hoping we never get to meet Bournemouth in the playoffs... there is a reason for that.
Many of our fans are too used to the good life and forgot what it was like pre Premier League - because we are back there and those days are long gone.
I’m just wondering how many managers we will end up going through before people come to terms with it and accept it. [Post edited 23 Apr 2021 14:58]
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To an extent yes.
At the same time, while I don’t think we’ve got the squads of the three above us, we’d put ourselves in a fantastic position. Cooper deserves credit for that. He had it at the time and he lapped it up.
Falling apart against the teams mentioned is more like a hurdler falling at the last hurdle, which is a foot lower than the ones he cleared. 1 point against those 5 teams, or 7 points from 7 since that sequence started is inexcusable. We should be beating Wycombe and QPR at home whatever Watford and Norwich do. The fact we’d done very well to be in the position we were doesn’t excuse it.
Won’t always go to plan, but 7 points from 7 games against predominantly weaker teams, at the business end of the season, is blowing it in my view. | | | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 18:13 - Apr 23 with 357 views | KeithHaynes |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 17:22 - Apr 23 by jack247 |
To an extent yes.
At the same time, while I don’t think we’ve got the squads of the three above us, we’d put ourselves in a fantastic position. Cooper deserves credit for that. He had it at the time and he lapped it up.
Falling apart against the teams mentioned is more like a hurdler falling at the last hurdle, which is a foot lower than the ones he cleared. 1 point against those 5 teams, or 7 points from 7 since that sequence started is inexcusable. We should be beating Wycombe and QPR at home whatever Watford and Norwich do. The fact we’d done very well to be in the position we were doesn’t excuse it.
Won’t always go to plan, but 7 points from 7 games against predominantly weaker teams, at the business end of the season, is blowing it in my view. |
Six more points from the games you refer to would have Watford seriously worried this weekend, not to be though. We have what we all expected. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 00:59 - Apr 24 with 332 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 17:22 - Apr 23 by jack247 |
To an extent yes.
At the same time, while I don’t think we’ve got the squads of the three above us, we’d put ourselves in a fantastic position. Cooper deserves credit for that. He had it at the time and he lapped it up.
Falling apart against the teams mentioned is more like a hurdler falling at the last hurdle, which is a foot lower than the ones he cleared. 1 point against those 5 teams, or 7 points from 7 since that sequence started is inexcusable. We should be beating Wycombe and QPR at home whatever Watford and Norwich do. The fact we’d done very well to be in the position we were doesn’t excuse it.
Won’t always go to plan, but 7 points from 7 games against predominantly weaker teams, at the business end of the season, is blowing it in my view. |
It all evens out though. While on paper yes we should be beating Wycombe, on paper we should also be losing to Norwich, Bournemouth and Watford - yet we took 7 points off them.
When looking back at the season fans often point out games their team “should” have won happily ignoring games they “shouldn’t”. That’s where the premise fails because if we are talking about “should” then it has to work both ways.
It is those highs and lows that season’s are comprised of. It’s natural.
As I said earlier, in our promotion season under Rodgers we lost against Wigan, QPR (4-0), Scunthorpe (bottom of the league) etc but we picked up wins where we were the underdog too. It’s nothing out of the ordinary. [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 2:21]
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