| Does anyone else need a manager 22:06 - Jun 30 with 4014 views | guthrieintherain |
Where will Cooper get linked next? |  |
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 10:59 - Jul 1 with 1045 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 10:52 - Jul 1 by ItchySphincter |
So should the fans recalibrate the reason why they watch football in the first place and put the interests of the owners ahead of everything else? It's a pragmatic way of thinking which matches our style of play on the pitch, but if we all thought like that there wouldn't be so much love and joy for the beautiful game. As fans it's not our job to put the dollar signs before enjoyment and being that it the fans that create those dollars we have every right to have a voice, regardless that it will be ignored. |
I would imagine many fans go for the love of the club, as opposed to a form of entertainment (entertainment in the form of great football anyway). If entertainment was the simple pre-requisite then I doubt Swansea would be the first port of call. But yes is the answer, if people aren’t entertained by the football and that is their only reason for going then maybe they shouldn’t if they aren’t enjoying. It’s not a form of national service.
I started going in the early 90’s, mud bath pitches, teams consisting of Michael Howard and Julian Alsop, the beautiful game it most certainly was not, there was applause if we managed to pass it 5 times from one side to the other without losing it. Loved it.
But what we are discussing here is what the club wants, not what the fans want. The club will want Cooper to stay simply because he represents someone who can give them value on minimal squad investment. They know this, and it is not easy to find. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 11:02]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 11:15 - Jul 1 with 1004 views | ItchySphincter |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 10:59 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I would imagine many fans go for the love of the club, as opposed to a form of entertainment (entertainment in the form of great football anyway). If entertainment was the simple pre-requisite then I doubt Swansea would be the first port of call. But yes is the answer, if people aren’t entertained by the football and that is their only reason for going then maybe they shouldn’t if they aren’t enjoying. It’s not a form of national service.
I started going in the early 90’s, mud bath pitches, teams consisting of Michael Howard and Julian Alsop, the beautiful game it most certainly was not, there was applause if we managed to pass it 5 times from one side to the other without losing it. Loved it.
But what we are discussing here is what the club wants, not what the fans want. The club will want Cooper to stay simply because he represents someone who can give them value on minimal squad investment. They know this, and it is not easy to find. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 11:02]
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I don't disagree. I do think the fans have a right to want what they want to.
I loved the 80's and 90's down the Vetch too. The football might not have been the prettiest but it's not strictly true to say it wasn't entertaining, in fact there was a lot more emotion and enthusiasm than there is now.
The only thing we fundamentally don't agree on is the importance of feelings. As a fan it's not about the spreadsheets, it's all about the feelings baby. Positive vibes, positive results. |  |
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 11:40 - Jul 1 with 982 views | guthrieintherain |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 08:57 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Indeed. |
Indeed seconded I would be delighted if he had gone as the football is a hard watch and negative.
But yes points wise and positions can't argue with facts. | |
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 11:50 - Jul 1 with 960 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 10:48 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I haven’t heard any reports of any attempted negotiation, only that they wouldn’t pay the compensation. It’s a similar situation to Brendan to Liverpool had Liverpool baulked at the clause value.
Fortunately, or unfortunately (depending on your view), we were dealing with Fulham and not Liverpool and a £3.5m fee is a mammoth amount in the Championship. If we wanted him to go, we would have offered him for free which I very much doubt we did, or would entertain.
I believe Cooper will be offered a new deal in the coming months, there was talks of one for him in April. But Cooper may want the clause lowered or altered in his contract.
That seems the most likely course of events from here on in. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 10:49]
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This is it, we’re down to what we all think is the most plausible explanation of what has happened so far and what will going forward.
In my view, purely supposition, Winter had lined up a replacement he wanted to bring in and was happy for Cooper to go. Cooper, understandably, was open to a PL club or a club more likely than us to get back there. Palace and Fulham both found managers they’d rather appoint, so the merry go round stops.
If there was no negotiation, Fulham would have been told that up front and if they had decided against it, would not have interviewed Cooper. We’d have also put out a statement saying he is our manager and will remain so unless his release clause is met.
As far as I’m aware, neither Vieira nor Silva have been confirmed yet, so there could still be twists.
Edit - let me rephrase to ‘if there was no room for negotiation’. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 11:56]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 12:25 - Jul 1 with 929 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 11:15 - Jul 1 by ItchySphincter |
I don't disagree. I do think the fans have a right to want what they want to.
I loved the 80's and 90's down the Vetch too. The football might not have been the prettiest but it's not strictly true to say it wasn't entertaining, in fact there was a lot more emotion and enthusiasm than there is now.
The only thing we fundamentally don't agree on is the importance of feelings. As a fan it's not about the spreadsheets, it's all about the feelings baby. Positive vibes, positive results. |
I was careful to say entertainment in terms of great football. The occasion is always entertaining for me regardless how the team plays, last season was one of the most enjoyable for me in many years. I much preferred last season to the last couple in the Premier League for example.
We seem to be having two different discussions, it stemmed from the view that the club do not want Cooper. My point was that the club and fans don’t have an aligned goal, so just because one group are perceived to not want him (although I’m not convinced the fans don’t want him at all, just *some* fans), it doesn’t mean the other group doesn’t.
It looked at it logically, I can’t see very many reasons the club wouldn’t want Cooper, and if we look at the clause they inserted and the fact that they appear to have no budget from that, it’s hard to make a case that they don’t.
Fans are welcome to have their view on if they enjoy the style of play, of course. But what one fan dislikes, another likes so it’s not a unanimous voice. | |
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 12:30 - Jul 1 with 919 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 11:50 - Jul 1 by jack247 |
This is it, we’re down to what we all think is the most plausible explanation of what has happened so far and what will going forward.
In my view, purely supposition, Winter had lined up a replacement he wanted to bring in and was happy for Cooper to go. Cooper, understandably, was open to a PL club or a club more likely than us to get back there. Palace and Fulham both found managers they’d rather appoint, so the merry go round stops.
If there was no negotiation, Fulham would have been told that up front and if they had decided against it, would not have interviewed Cooper. We’d have also put out a statement saying he is our manager and will remain so unless his release clause is met.
As far as I’m aware, neither Vieira nor Silva have been confirmed yet, so there could still be twists.
Edit - let me rephrase to ‘if there was no room for negotiation’. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 11:56]
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That’s not strictly true. Often personal terms get agreed first before the clubs reach an agreement in terms of management. It’s what happened in both Martinez and Rodgers cases, can’t remember what happened with Potter.
Presumably they were confident we would budge and they could get him for cheaper. The speed of which they moved on suggests we held firm on that and there was no negotiation to be had.
There could still be twists yes, but it’s my feeling that unless they hit the clause (which I don’t for one second think they will) he should still be here. | |
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 12:45 - Jul 1 with 903 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 12:30 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
That’s not strictly true. Often personal terms get agreed first before the clubs reach an agreement in terms of management. It’s what happened in both Martinez and Rodgers cases, can’t remember what happened with Potter.
Presumably they were confident we would budge and they could get him for cheaper. The speed of which they moved on suggests we held firm on that and there was no negotiation to be had.
There could still be twists yes, but it’s my feeling that unless they hit the clause (which I don’t for one second think they will) he should still be here. |
Yes of course, but I was replying to you saying you hadn’t heard any reports of attempted negotiation, only that they wouldn’t pay the compensation.
If we weren’t prepared to negotiate, interested clubs would have been fully aware of that from the outset. | | | |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 12:55 - Jul 1 with 886 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 12:45 - Jul 1 by jack247 |
Yes of course, but I was replying to you saying you hadn’t heard any reports of attempted negotiation, only that they wouldn’t pay the compensation.
If we weren’t prepared to negotiate, interested clubs would have been fully aware of that from the outset. |
Not if they initially approached the manager and not started discussing the financial side with the club with the belief that once Cooper agrees to the terms it would be within every bodies interests to get the deal done... which for me it appears we didn’t. It was simply the clause or he stays.
It was intentionally inserted for a reason. It didn’t appear in there by chance. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 12:57]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:02 - Jul 1 with 872 views | ItchySphincter |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 12:25 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I was careful to say entertainment in terms of great football. The occasion is always entertaining for me regardless how the team plays, last season was one of the most enjoyable for me in many years. I much preferred last season to the last couple in the Premier League for example.
We seem to be having two different discussions, it stemmed from the view that the club do not want Cooper. My point was that the club and fans don’t have an aligned goal, so just because one group are perceived to not want him (although I’m not convinced the fans don’t want him at all, just *some* fans), it doesn’t mean the other group doesn’t.
It looked at it logically, I can’t see very many reasons the club wouldn’t want Cooper, and if we look at the clause they inserted and the fact that they appear to have no budget from that, it’s hard to make a case that they don’t.
Fans are welcome to have their view on if they enjoy the style of play, of course. But what one fan dislikes, another likes so it’s not a unanimous voice. |
I've seen nothing from the club saying they don't want Cooper, likewise nothing from Cooper stating that he wants out. I also understand that from the club's perspective there's a business case for keeping him on. I also understand, from a fans perspective, why there is an eagerness to move on and try something different. My read of it from the fans point of view is that no one is angry or disappointed with Cooper for not getting promotion - it's purely down to the way he sends out his team to play, and that is why people are harking back to Potter. It might not have been as 'successful' under Potter but at least there was a little bit of joy on the way to failure. | |
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:05 - Jul 1 with 864 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 12:55 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not if they initially approached the manager and not started discussing the financial side with the club with the belief that once Cooper agrees to the terms it would be within every bodies interests to get the deal done... which for me it appears we didn’t. It was simply the clause or he stays.
It was intentionally inserted for a reason. It didn’t appear in there by chance. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 12:57]
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We’ve consented to an interview. We wouldn’t have done that without at the very least giving clubs a ballpark of what it would take, or if it would take the full amount.
These deals don’t often fall down over compensation, after the manager has been interviewed, as both clubs invariably know more or less what it would take.
If they weren’t prepared to pay £3.5m, or we weren’t prepared to accept less than that, it wouldn’t have got as far as it did.
Far more plausible, is they interviewed Cooper, interviewed others and decided on Silva. | | | |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:15 - Jul 1 with 846 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:05 - Jul 1 by jack247 |
We’ve consented to an interview. We wouldn’t have done that without at the very least giving clubs a ballpark of what it would take, or if it would take the full amount.
These deals don’t often fall down over compensation, after the manager has been interviewed, as both clubs invariably know more or less what it would take.
If they weren’t prepared to pay £3.5m, or we weren’t prepared to accept less than that, it wouldn’t have got as far as it did.
Far more plausible, is they interviewed Cooper, interviewed others and decided on Silva. |
I disagree, I think negotiation with club comes after negotiation with manager in case of managerial appointments as it’s not a bid as such like it is with a player, it’s a compensation agreement, not to mention the fact that the club cannot know how many backroom staff they are also going to have to pay compensation for until they speak with that manager. That can only happen once a manager has agreed terms.
It was widely reported that Cooper was number 1 choice but didn’t want to pay the £3.5m fee. I said even before the saga started that it was all down to whether we would budge and we presumably haven’t, like I said, that clause didn’t happen to find its way in there by chance, it was intentionally inserted for a reason.
The Fulham forum think it was additional payment for the backroom staff that scuppered the deal so they moved on as it was too costly. There is nothing within this sequence of events that has led me to believe anything other than that scenario.
As I said previously, the natural next step now would be a new contract and should he stay I fully expect that to materialise, which obviously wouldn’t be the case if we didn’t want him. I can’t think of a single reason the board wouldn’t, we just got to within 90 mins of their company doubling in value.
With that in mind, I think it’s the least plausible scenario that we want to get rid of a manager who can get us into such positions just to completely gamble on someone else. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 13:31]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:32 - Jul 1 with 818 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:15 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I disagree, I think negotiation with club comes after negotiation with manager in case of managerial appointments as it’s not a bid as such like it is with a player, it’s a compensation agreement, not to mention the fact that the club cannot know how many backroom staff they are also going to have to pay compensation for until they speak with that manager. That can only happen once a manager has agreed terms.
It was widely reported that Cooper was number 1 choice but didn’t want to pay the £3.5m fee. I said even before the saga started that it was all down to whether we would budge and we presumably haven’t, like I said, that clause didn’t happen to find its way in there by chance, it was intentionally inserted for a reason.
The Fulham forum think it was additional payment for the backroom staff that scuppered the deal so they moved on as it was too costly. There is nothing within this sequence of events that has led me to believe anything other than that scenario.
As I said previously, the natural next step now would be a new contract and should he stay I fully expect that to materialise, which obviously wouldn’t be the case if we didn’t want him. I can’t think of a single reason the board wouldn’t, we just got to within 90 mins of their company doubling in value.
With that in mind, I think it’s the least plausible scenario that we want to get rid of a manager who can get us into such positions just to completely gamble on someone else. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 13:31]
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Here’s how I believe it works.
Cooper/his agent get approached and asked if he’s interested in the Fulham job
Informal chat regarding wages, transfer budget, back room staff, expectations and anything else
Fulham ask us for permission to interview him
We give consent, tell them approximately how much he and his team will cost
Formal interview
It would be a complete waste of everyones time, not to mention destabilising for all parties, to go through the formal interview process with no indication of whether the clubs would reach a compensation agreement. It would be a crazy way to do business.
As far as I can see here, Fulham have just preferred someone else. | | | |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:39 - Jul 1 with 814 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:32 - Jul 1 by jack247 |
Here’s how I believe it works.
Cooper/his agent get approached and asked if he’s interested in the Fulham job
Informal chat regarding wages, transfer budget, back room staff, expectations and anything else
Fulham ask us for permission to interview him
We give consent, tell them approximately how much he and his team will cost
Formal interview
It would be a complete waste of everyones time, not to mention destabilising for all parties, to go through the formal interview process with no indication of whether the clubs would reach a compensation agreement. It would be a crazy way to do business.
As far as I can see here, Fulham have just preferred someone else. |
They have preferred someone else, but that appears because Cooper plus his backroom staff is going to be too expensive.
That’s what was reported in the media and that’s what has been reported on the Fulham site, straying from that to create another scenario that doesn’t really fit with logic is something I just can’t get on board with. There isn’t a single logical reason we would want a manager to leave that we ensured we had a large release fee in his contract that just got us to within 90 mins of the premier league against all (most sensible) pre season expectations.
What you have pointed out there in terms of sequence of events is also my understanding of how it works, I believe it got all the way down to them asking us for permission and what the fees are. I don’t think any formal interview ever took place, only an informal discussion regarding terms. Which is why it has now moved relatively quickly from getting rid of Parker to being close to appointing another manager.
That would also back up what is being reported today where they state no formal interview took place with Cooper (although struggling to find that article again, I’m sure it was on Sky Sports Twitter). [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 13:47]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:47 - Jul 1 with 809 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:39 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
They have preferred someone else, but that appears because Cooper plus his backroom staff is going to be too expensive.
That’s what was reported in the media and that’s what has been reported on the Fulham site, straying from that to create another scenario that doesn’t really fit with logic is something I just can’t get on board with. There isn’t a single logical reason we would want a manager to leave that we ensured we had a large release fee in his contract that just got us to within 90 mins of the premier league against all (most sensible) pre season expectations.
What you have pointed out there in terms of sequence of events is also my understanding of how it works, I believe it got all the way down to them asking us for permission and what the fees are. I don’t think any formal interview ever took place, only an informal discussion regarding terms. Which is why it has now moved relatively quickly from getting rid of Parker to being close to appointing another manager.
That would also back up what is being reported today where they state no formal interview took place with Cooper (although struggling to find that article again, I’m sure it was on Sky Sports Twitter). [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 13:47]
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There’s always the possibility that they were prepared to pay £3.5m or we were prepared to meet them in the middle, but then the option of Silva with no compensation presented itself and they saw that as a better deal.
His interview with Fulham was widely reported on SSN, WOL and other reputable sources at the time. We’ve consented to it and both clubs would have had a reasonable idea over compensation at that point. | | | |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:50 - Jul 1 with 806 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:47 - Jul 1 by jack247 |
There’s always the possibility that they were prepared to pay £3.5m or we were prepared to meet them in the middle, but then the option of Silva with no compensation presented itself and they saw that as a better deal.
His interview with Fulham was widely reported on SSN, WOL and other reputable sources at the time. We’ve consented to it and both clubs would have had a reasonable idea over compensation at that point. |
I’m sure they would have been aware of Silva and his availability long before Parker even left.
Sky Sports are reporting Silva was the only manager officially interviewed for the role and no official approach was made for Cooper.
Which again ties in with the initial series of events, or of course that Fulham never wanted Cooper and the whole Cooper is talking to Fulham and touting himself to them was nonsense? Hence the lack of communication as there was nothing to communicate.
Seems one of the two is the truth. I haven’t seen the alternative reported by anyone at all. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 13:57]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:57 - Jul 1 with 798 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:50 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m sure they would have been aware of Silva and his availability long before Parker even left.
Sky Sports are reporting Silva was the only manager officially interviewed for the role and no official approach was made for Cooper.
Which again ties in with the initial series of events, or of course that Fulham never wanted Cooper and the whole Cooper is talking to Fulham and touting himself to them was nonsense? Hence the lack of communication as there was nothing to communicate.
Seems one of the two is the truth. I haven’t seen the alternative reported by anyone at all. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 13:57]
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I don’t think they could have officially interviewed Cooper? Parker was still there at that point.
They knew he was going and would have had discussions with all candidates, albeit informally. I’m sure they had a pretty good steer of which way they were going by the time he left and they officially had a vacancy. | | | |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:03 - Jul 1 with 793 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 13:57 - Jul 1 by jack247 |
I don’t think they could have officially interviewed Cooper? Parker was still there at that point.
They knew he was going and would have had discussions with all candidates, albeit informally. I’m sure they had a pretty good steer of which way they were going by the time he left and they officially had a vacancy. |
Then they wouldn’t have bothered asking our permission and us giving consent as is required for an official interview and approach then? Which would contradict:-
“His interview with Fulham was widely reported on SSN, WOL and other reputable sources at the time. We’ve consented to it...”
It just doesn’t add up for me, it’s a theory that isn’t backed up by any reporting of the situation by any outlet at all, be that reputable or not so.
The overwhelming likelihood for me is that we just wouldn’t budge and they quickly moved on, without making an official approach or conducting an interview, that aligns with reporting. And of course can then say Silva was the only one officially interviewed and he was our number 1 man.
A left field but also possible scenario is that they just wanted Silva and Cooper was never in the equation, again probably because of the clause in place, which has also been reported by some. But it had been widely understood for a long time they wanted Coops so not too sure I give that one much legs.
It would be one or the other for me. Again, I can’t think of a single reason the club would want him to leave after what he has done here, also seems incredibly unlikely that if we did want him to leave and offered him out for any amount possible, then there would be no takers.
It seems the most likely scenarios are being ignored by those that wish to paint a different picture. As I said on the other thread, these scenarios aren’t unique, they have happened to our club before yet is being shaped in a completely different way. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 14:07]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:15 - Jul 1 with 774 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:03 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Then they wouldn’t have bothered asking our permission and us giving consent as is required for an official interview and approach then? Which would contradict:-
“His interview with Fulham was widely reported on SSN, WOL and other reputable sources at the time. We’ve consented to it...”
It just doesn’t add up for me, it’s a theory that isn’t backed up by any reporting of the situation by any outlet at all, be that reputable or not so.
The overwhelming likelihood for me is that we just wouldn’t budge and they quickly moved on, without making an official approach or conducting an interview, that aligns with reporting. And of course can then say Silva was the only one officially interviewed and he was our number 1 man.
A left field but also possible scenario is that they just wanted Silva and Cooper was never in the equation, again probably because of the clause in place, which has also been reported by some. But it had been widely understood for a long time they wanted Coops so not too sure I give that one much legs.
It would be one or the other for me. Again, I can’t think of a single reason the club would want him to leave after what he has done here, also seems incredibly unlikely that if we did want him to leave and offered him out for any amount possible, then there would be no takers.
It seems the most likely scenarios are being ignored by those that wish to paint a different picture. As I said on the other thread, these scenarios aren’t unique, they have happened to our club before yet is being shaped in a completely different way. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 14:07]
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It’s not a case of asking for permission. It’s a case of knowing there’s a £3.5m buy out clause. They would have had to speak to us to know if it was worth their time. Unless of course, they were prepared to pay it in full.
If they had gone behind our back and his interview, albeit unofficial, was all over the media, the club wouldn’t have sat back silently.
The only reason I can see that the club would be prepared to let him go, is that they’ve got what they consider a better replacement lined up. | | | |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:25 - Jul 1 with 770 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:15 - Jul 1 by jack247 |
It’s not a case of asking for permission. It’s a case of knowing there’s a £3.5m buy out clause. They would have had to speak to us to know if it was worth their time. Unless of course, they were prepared to pay it in full.
If they had gone behind our back and his interview, albeit unofficial, was all over the media, the club wouldn’t have sat back silently.
The only reason I can see that the club would be prepared to let him go, is that they’ve got what they consider a better replacement lined up. |
Yes that’s what we are both saying. Our series of events of how a managerial approach is made is identical. We both get to the contact with the club and the sequence ends there, falls flat.
It would only get to that point if they wanted him after that initial informal chat that would happen long before any contact with the club.
That again aligns with reporting and the people on the Fulham forum in which they say it all fell apart when they were discussing a compensation package for Cooper and his backroom staff. So it never got to a formal interview which again aligns with what Sky Sports are reporting today.
I would consider it plausible that the club feel they have a better replacement lined up if we had underachieved and had finished mid table or such like. But we finished 6th and got to the play off semis against expectation, then bettered it and finished 4th while getting to the play off final against expectation.
So I don’t see that as particularly feasible that they would want to replace a manager who has proven he can maximise results vs expectations to gamble on someone else for no apparent reason? Just seems incredibly unlikely.
Like most things I will always lean to the most plausible series of events. From pre Parker sacking reporting, post Parker sacking reporting, the information on the fans forums and then the logic behind it - us pricing them out meaning the move was never really on the cards seems to be overwhelmingly the most likely scenario. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 14:26]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:32 - Jul 1 with 761 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:25 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes that’s what we are both saying. Our series of events of how a managerial approach is made is identical. We both get to the contact with the club and the sequence ends there, falls flat.
It would only get to that point if they wanted him after that initial informal chat that would happen long before any contact with the club.
That again aligns with reporting and the people on the Fulham forum in which they say it all fell apart when they were discussing a compensation package for Cooper and his backroom staff. So it never got to a formal interview which again aligns with what Sky Sports are reporting today.
I would consider it plausible that the club feel they have a better replacement lined up if we had underachieved and had finished mid table or such like. But we finished 6th and got to the play off semis against expectation, then bettered it and finished 4th while getting to the play off final against expectation.
So I don’t see that as particularly feasible that they would want to replace a manager who has proven he can maximise results vs expectations to gamble on someone else for no apparent reason? Just seems incredibly unlikely.
Like most things I will always lean to the most plausible series of events. From pre Parker sacking reporting, post Parker sacking reporting, the information on the fans forums and then the logic behind it - us pricing them out meaning the move was never really on the cards seems to be overwhelmingly the most likely scenario. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 14:26]
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Most of that I agree with.
Where we differ, is the point they realise the compensation is going to be a deal breaker, in my view, comes before he’s reported to be in discussions with them by several outlets. It’s normally done very quietly until all sides expect a deal to be reached.
I also find it staggering, that if a deal was unlikely be reached, there was no comment from the club when it was all over the media. | | | |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:34 - Jul 1 with 759 views | Dr_Parnassus |
They couldn’t know how much the deal would cost before they spoke to him informally as they wouldn’t know the number of staff he wanted to bring with him, and more importantly the costs of them.
This was what you stated the sequence of events were (copy and pasted), I agree entirely btw.
The arrows is where I think it got to before going no further:-
- Cooper/his agent get approached and asked if he’s interested in the Fulham job
- Informal chat regarding wages, transfer budget, back room staff, expectations and anything else
- Fulham ask us for permission to interview him
- We give consent, tell them approximately how much he and his team will cost <<<<<<<<<<<<
- Formal interview
So I think they spoke to him and his agent, agreed terms, found out who he wanted to also take with him. They go to the club and ask for permission to formally interview and get the price that it would cost to get the whole management team that he wants. We tell them...
They decline to go any further, due to it being pointless as they will not pay the money we want. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 14:42]
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:48 - Jul 1 with 735 views | jack247 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:34 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
They couldn’t know how much the deal would cost before they spoke to him informally as they wouldn’t know the number of staff he wanted to bring with him, and more importantly the costs of them.
This was what you stated the sequence of events were (copy and pasted), I agree entirely btw.
The arrows is where I think it got to before going no further:-
- Cooper/his agent get approached and asked if he’s interested in the Fulham job
- Informal chat regarding wages, transfer budget, back room staff, expectations and anything else
- Fulham ask us for permission to interview him
- We give consent, tell them approximately how much he and his team will cost <<<<<<<<<<<<
- Formal interview
So I think they spoke to him and his agent, agreed terms, found out who he wanted to also take with him. They go to the club and ask for permission to formally interview and get the price that it would cost to get the whole management team that he wants. We tell them...
They decline to go any further, due to it being pointless as they will not pay the money we want. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 14:42]
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Yes, I think that’s entirely plausible.
None of that gets played out in the public domain though, which it did in this case. That comes when there’s a broad agreement between all parties with maybe fine details to sort out.
I think he’s effectively had a full interview with our consent (they can claim it wasn’t formal as Parker was in situ), Fulham have then decided that Silva is a better bet than Cooper plus whatever compensation we wanted, as well as anyone else they informally interviewed. Parker leaves and they formally interview the candidate who already has the job.
I also believe we would have been pretty confident of a deal to let it happen so publicly. | | | |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:56 - Jul 1 with 719 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:48 - Jul 1 by jack247 |
Yes, I think that’s entirely plausible.
None of that gets played out in the public domain though, which it did in this case. That comes when there’s a broad agreement between all parties with maybe fine details to sort out.
I think he’s effectively had a full interview with our consent (they can claim it wasn’t formal as Parker was in situ), Fulham have then decided that Silva is a better bet than Cooper plus whatever compensation we wanted, as well as anyone else they informally interviewed. Parker leaves and they formally interview the candidate who already has the job.
I also believe we would have been pretty confident of a deal to let it happen so publicly. |
Did it though? I think the press were just hearing snippets and piecing it together.
It had been long reported that Cooper was number 1 target but the clause may be a stumbling block. Maybe they heard that Cooper and Fulham had agreed terms and reported that as an interview, when it wasn’t an official interview at all and was very much the opening gambit in the process.
If they had no intention of taking him on then they wouldn’t have asked the club about the compensation package cost, which the Fulham forum have said categorically is where the deal collapsed, and of course also aligns with what the reports say.
They have certainly now decided Silva is a better option because he is so much cheaper and is a very good manager himself.
I don’t think we let anything happen publicly, quite the opposite, we haven’t said anything about it at all. It didn’t get to the formal interview so we would have largely been kept out of the loop until an official approach/request for a price of the management team was made.
I think both Cooper and the club are being bashed a bit on all this needlessly when neither really had much say in anything. Cooper went for a chat to a bigger club as is normal, they asked how much for him, we told them, they said no.
That is essentially what has been reported thus far if you take the before, middle and after reporting and knit it together. I haven’t seen anything that suggests that wouldn’t have been the case. For me anything else is a bit of a reach. | |
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 10:10 - Jul 2 with 582 views | guthrieintherain |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:56 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Did it though? I think the press were just hearing snippets and piecing it together.
It had been long reported that Cooper was number 1 target but the clause may be a stumbling block. Maybe they heard that Cooper and Fulham had agreed terms and reported that as an interview, when it wasn’t an official interview at all and was very much the opening gambit in the process.
If they had no intention of taking him on then they wouldn’t have asked the club about the compensation package cost, which the Fulham forum have said categorically is where the deal collapsed, and of course also aligns with what the reports say.
They have certainly now decided Silva is a better option because he is so much cheaper and is a very good manager himself.
I don’t think we let anything happen publicly, quite the opposite, we haven’t said anything about it at all. It didn’t get to the formal interview so we would have largely been kept out of the loop until an official approach/request for a price of the management team was made.
I think both Cooper and the club are being bashed a bit on all this needlessly when neither really had much say in anything. Cooper went for a chat to a bigger club as is normal, they asked how much for him, we told them, they said no.
That is essentially what has been reported thus far if you take the before, middle and after reporting and knit it together. I haven’t seen anything that suggests that wouldn’t have been the case. For me anything else is a bit of a reach. |
Just seen on sky sports exclusive that Cooper is interested in the Abergavenny Thursdays job.
They are prepared to treat all our players and backroom staff to rissole and chips.
But the big sticking point is we are holding out for beans and dandelion and burdock as well.
Fingers crossed a deal can be agreed. | |
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| Does anyone else need a manager on 14:18 - Jul 2 with 522 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Does anyone else need a manager on 10:52 - Jul 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
It doesn’t matter what you believe football is, tell that to European Champions Chelsea who scored among the lowest goals in the top half of the Premier League.
Owners own football clubs for profit in the main, very few own football clubs just to be entertained by the spectacle otherwise they would just be fans. For the majority of owners, effective winning football beats exciting middling results any day. You may not like it, I understand that, but that is just the fact of the matter.
Would I prefer tiki taka Brendan Rodgers style football while storming the league? Absolutely. Do I think it’s realistic? Not at all. |
Why is it not realistic?. Norwich went close to this style and romped the league. It was realistic for Swansea from 2007 to 2016 9 long seasons. There are literally dozes of europen coaches out of work who promote this style.
I hope Cooper can take on coaching help and evolve. He has the like of Routledge, Dyer Britton Tate to give him value added input not learned on FA courses. These guys must have learned a lot under Martinez, Sousa, Brendan and Laudrup.
He must know himself he must do it to be a serious managerial option with multimillion pound salary. |  |
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