| UK v France 12:51 - Oct 29 with 4837 views | CountyJim |
If it came to a dust up who would win
Personally if we stepped foot in Normandy they'd wave a white flag they got history  |  | | |  |
| UK v France on 19:10 - Oct 30 with 967 views | Treforys_Jack |
| UK v France on 15:39 - Oct 30 by Gwyn737 |
This.
Although I know this won’t be popular… the plucky Battle of Britain narrative isn’t true.
I’m not trying to take away from the heroic acts of the forces, by we had all kinds of advantages over the disorganised and poorly prepared Germans. |
It is true, just not to the scale portrayed, as you say the Luftwaffe had many difficult obstacles to overcome, although they did have arguably the best fighter aircraft in the early war years. |  | | |
| UK v France on 19:39 - Oct 30 with 944 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| UK v France on 19:03 - Oct 30 by shingle |
How thick are you did Churchill go over to America and make speeches at the American congress begging them for help or do you think this is untrue as well, he received a standing ovation for a brilliant performance and got them to supply us with the help we desperately needed, now go and Google to check if this is true or not its historical fact you buffoon.  |
His first speech to Congress was on Boxing Day 1941. The Battle of Britain had long been won by then. More importantly it was only two weeks or so after the attacks on Pearl Harbor. America had just joined the war and wanted allies for her war in the pacific.
Before that pleas for help fell largely on deaf ears because the US didn’t want to get involved in what it saw as a European war. Any help before Pearl Harbor came in the form of lend-lease and was not done altruistically. Although Roosevelt was sympathetic to our cause, Congress and the American military and the American people were all deeply against it. Pearl Harbor changed everything.
There’s a reason Churchill was suddenly invited 2 weeks after the attack. Britain still had significant influence in the pacific and Asia with Australia, New Zealand, India, Burma etc and the US would need bases of operations.
There’s long been a conspiracy theory that the UK knew about the imminent attacks on Pearl Harbor from intercepted transmissions but allowed it to happen so the US would be forced into the war. Whether or not that is true we’ll probably never know but it was certainly beneficial for the UK. America was far more accommodating after that. |  | | |
| UK v France on 19:49 - Oct 30 with 934 views | 73__73 |
We should never have gone to war with Germany in the first place. | |
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| UK v France on 22:03 - Oct 30 with 910 views | Treforys_Jack |
| UK v France on 19:49 - Oct 30 by 73__73 |
We should never have gone to war with Germany in the first place. |
Why's that ? | | | |
| UK v France on 22:12 - Oct 30 with 908 views | Dr_Winston |
We should have teamed up with the Germans in 1914 and carved France up between us. The 20th Century would have looked a lot better.
WW1 would have ended in months, so in all likelihood no Russian Revolution in 1917 and no Soviet Union. No Treaty of Versailles, so probably no Hitler either. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| UK v France on 03:19 - Oct 31 with 888 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UK v France on 22:12 - Oct 30 by Dr_Winston |
We should have teamed up with the Germans in 1914 and carved France up between us. The 20th Century would have looked a lot better.
WW1 would have ended in months, so in all likelihood no Russian Revolution in 1917 and no Soviet Union. No Treaty of Versailles, so probably no Hitler either. |
I think you might find that the good people of France would take a different stance.
England can hardly govern England let alone impose a way of living on other peoples of the world.
The one million people who starved to death in Ireland are also testiment to the reality.
Likewise the corruption of Track and Trace. |  |
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| UK v France on 08:05 - Oct 31 with 868 views | KeithHaynes |
| UK v France on 22:12 - Oct 30 by Dr_Winston |
We should have teamed up with the Germans in 1914 and carved France up between us. The 20th Century would have looked a lot better.
WW1 would have ended in months, so in all likelihood no Russian Revolution in 1917 and no Soviet Union. No Treaty of Versailles, so probably no Hitler either. |
But what about 1927 ?
It’s all they have ! |  |
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| UK v France on 09:31 - Oct 31 with 838 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UK v France on 08:05 - Oct 31 by KeithHaynes |
But what about 1927 ?
It’s all they have ! |
FA Cup should have been cancelled that year Keith.
No real interest between the wars, as you know.
Not much better than our own Welsh Cup in 1927 tbh.
Nobody still living can remember it mun …. | |
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| UK v France on 18:06 - Oct 31 with 805 views | shingle |
| UK v France on 19:39 - Oct 30 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
His first speech to Congress was on Boxing Day 1941. The Battle of Britain had long been won by then. More importantly it was only two weeks or so after the attacks on Pearl Harbor. America had just joined the war and wanted allies for her war in the pacific.
Before that pleas for help fell largely on deaf ears because the US didn’t want to get involved in what it saw as a European war. Any help before Pearl Harbor came in the form of lend-lease and was not done altruistically. Although Roosevelt was sympathetic to our cause, Congress and the American military and the American people were all deeply against it. Pearl Harbor changed everything.
There’s a reason Churchill was suddenly invited 2 weeks after the attack. Britain still had significant influence in the pacific and Asia with Australia, New Zealand, India, Burma etc and the US would need bases of operations.
There’s long been a conspiracy theory that the UK knew about the imminent attacks on Pearl Harbor from intercepted transmissions but allowed it to happen so the US would be forced into the war. Whether or not that is true we’ll probably never know but it was certainly beneficial for the UK. America was far more accommodating after that. |
Look stop being so stupid you are now admitting what i said in the first place you header, now just stop all your daft jargon because Churchill going over to America and arse licking Roosevelt then begging for help in congress is all we need to know when it comes to the predicament the UK was in, once he did that and won them over the tide began to change with regards to the war its historic fact nothing more to it, i realise you must be getting on a bit and very patriotic etc but you are being really silly now if you believe the UK would have won the war without the Americans. | | | |
| UK v France on 18:32 - Oct 31 with 795 views | 73__73 |
| UK v France on 18:06 - Oct 31 by shingle |
Look stop being so stupid you are now admitting what i said in the first place you header, now just stop all your daft jargon because Churchill going over to America and arse licking Roosevelt then begging for help in congress is all we need to know when it comes to the predicament the UK was in, once he did that and won them over the tide began to change with regards to the war its historic fact nothing more to it, i realise you must be getting on a bit and very patriotic etc but you are being really silly now if you believe the UK would have won the war without the Americans. |
Are you trying to rewrite history ? The Americans entered ww2 in 1941 after Japan attacked Pearl harbour. You also fail to recognise that not only were the British at war with Germany, we were also at war with Japan and therefore had thousands upon thousands of troops deployed in the Far East. | |
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| UK v France on 18:49 - Oct 31 with 789 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| UK v France on 18:06 - Oct 31 by shingle |
Look stop being so stupid you are now admitting what i said in the first place you header, now just stop all your daft jargon because Churchill going over to America and arse licking Roosevelt then begging for help in congress is all we need to know when it comes to the predicament the UK was in, once he did that and won them over the tide began to change with regards to the war its historic fact nothing more to it, i realise you must be getting on a bit and very patriotic etc but you are being really silly now if you believe the UK would have won the war without the Americans. |
Did you not read what was said? The only reason Churchill was finally invited to speak to congress was because Pearl Harbor had been attacked two weeks or so previously and the US wanted help. Before that they largely didn’t want to get involved. They were happy to sell us things as it benefitted them financially.
The war had been raging in Europe for over two years before Churchill even went to congress. Which of these historical facts are you even disputing at this point? Here are the dates: Pearl Harbor attacked 7th December 1941. The US and Germany declare war 11th December 1941. Churchill invited to speak at congress for first time December 26th 1941. If you can’t see these events are linked then you’re an ostrich head down in the sand, arse up ready to be rogered by a passing wildebeest. | | | |
| UK v France on 18:54 - Oct 31 with 788 views | shingle |
| UK v France on 18:32 - Oct 31 by 73__73 |
Are you trying to rewrite history ? The Americans entered ww2 in 1941 after Japan attacked Pearl harbour. You also fail to recognise that not only were the British at war with Germany, we were also at war with Japan and therefore had thousands upon thousands of troops deployed in the Far East. |
No mun are you then saying we had the war won in 1941 because the Americans had not entered, ???, the war was still in the early stages and things were looking really bleak for the UK, once the Americans declared war on Germany they were on our side it was there military might that won the war and no doubt we would have been in sh_t street without them, and your point about the UK having thousands in the far east and boy were they struggling out there as well justify s just how much of a mess we were in, once America were fighting with us and supplying us big time the tide began to turn. | | | |
| UK v France on 19:00 - Oct 31 with 783 views | shingle |
| UK v France on 18:49 - Oct 31 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Did you not read what was said? The only reason Churchill was finally invited to speak to congress was because Pearl Harbor had been attacked two weeks or so previously and the US wanted help. Before that they largely didn’t want to get involved. They were happy to sell us things as it benefitted them financially.
The war had been raging in Europe for over two years before Churchill even went to congress. Which of these historical facts are you even disputing at this point? Here are the dates: Pearl Harbor attacked 7th December 1941. The US and Germany declare war 11th December 1941. Churchill invited to speak at congress for first time December 26th 1941. If you can’t see these events are linked then you’re an ostrich head down in the sand, arse up ready to be rogered by a passing wildebeest. |
Look try and get over this invited stuff, the facts are he went there made a speech asking for help and they agreed to help now ok if it were not for Japan they may not have helped us, but they did and thank fcuk for that, now tell me this do you believe the UK would have won the War without the Americans along side us, a simple yes or no will do. | | | |
| UK v France on 23:06 - Oct 31 with 751 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UK v France on 19:00 - Oct 31 by shingle |
Look try and get over this invited stuff, the facts are he went there made a speech asking for help and they agreed to help now ok if it were not for Japan they may not have helped us, but they did and thank fcuk for that, now tell me this do you believe the UK would have won the War without the Americans along side us, a simple yes or no will do. |
No.
No fecking chance at all without the allies. | |
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| UK v France on 23:46 - Oct 31 with 745 views | controversial_jack |
| UK v France on 18:54 - Oct 31 by shingle |
No mun are you then saying we had the war won in 1941 because the Americans had not entered, ???, the war was still in the early stages and things were looking really bleak for the UK, once the Americans declared war on Germany they were on our side it was there military might that won the war and no doubt we would have been in sh_t street without them, and your point about the UK having thousands in the far east and boy were they struggling out there as well justify s just how much of a mess we were in, once America were fighting with us and supplying us big time the tide began to turn. |
Not really. The Red army knocked the stuffing out of Germany, not us or the Yanks.Britain had won the battle of Britain and was still fighting to control the Atlantic.It's unlikely the Germans could have invaded Britain, and even more unlikely we could have invaded Europe by ourselves. The eastern front was much larger than anything in the west and the Red army took on more German divisions that would have been used in the west.German troops were far superior to anything Britain and America had and it was only the bloody mindedness and attrition on the Eastern front that won the day. | | | |
| UK v France on 00:41 - Nov 1 with 739 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| UK v France on 19:00 - Oct 31 by shingle |
Look try and get over this invited stuff, the facts are he went there made a speech asking for help and they agreed to help now ok if it were not for Japan they may not have helped us, but they did and thank fcuk for that, now tell me this do you believe the UK would have won the War without the Americans along side us, a simple yes or no will do. |
The he was invited to speak to congress stuff is highly relevant. You can’t just “get over it”. It’s important to understand. Before this the US were adamant they didn’t want to get involved in what they saw as another European war.
Your initial statement was that they saved us from the Germans after being begged by Churchill but we had been fighting the Germans for over 2 years before that. | | | |
| UK v France on 18:06 - Nov 1 with 696 views | shingle |
| UK v France on 00:41 - Nov 1 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
The he was invited to speak to congress stuff is highly relevant. You can’t just “get over it”. It’s important to understand. Before this the US were adamant they didn’t want to get involved in what they saw as another European war.
Your initial statement was that they saved us from the Germans after being begged by Churchill but we had been fighting the Germans for over 2 years before that. |
So you still can not give a simple yes or no to what you were asked so lets ask again, do you believe the UK would have won the war without the Americans on board lets not try and worm your way out with the your avoidance of giving a simple answer, now come on you can do it YES or NO i really can not put it to you any simpler. | | | |
| UK v France on 18:18 - Nov 1 with 693 views | shingle |
| UK v France on 23:46 - Oct 31 by controversial_jack |
Not really. The Red army knocked the stuffing out of Germany, not us or the Yanks.Britain had won the battle of Britain and was still fighting to control the Atlantic.It's unlikely the Germans could have invaded Britain, and even more unlikely we could have invaded Europe by ourselves. The eastern front was much larger than anything in the west and the Red army took on more German divisions that would have been used in the west.German troops were far superior to anything Britain and America had and it was only the bloody mindedness and attrition on the Eastern front that won the day. |
Again simply google and check, Moscow was on the brink of being taken before the winter set in the Russians were on queer street, then through sheer arrogance and over confidence Hitler messed everything up by delaying the taking of Moscow this is historical fact, this enabled the Russians to recover and there resurgence and the arrival of the winter was the German downfall, and even if the Germans had taking Moscow it would not have mattered in the long run any way because the might of the American military would have eventually defeated them no matter how much success they would have had in Europe. | | | |
| UK v France on 18:57 - Nov 1 with 675 views | controversial_jack |
| UK v France on 18:18 - Nov 1 by shingle |
Again simply google and check, Moscow was on the brink of being taken before the winter set in the Russians were on queer street, then through sheer arrogance and over confidence Hitler messed everything up by delaying the taking of Moscow this is historical fact, this enabled the Russians to recover and there resurgence and the arrival of the winter was the German downfall, and even if the Germans had taking Moscow it would not have mattered in the long run any way because the might of the American military would have eventually defeated them no matter how much success they would have had in Europe. |
I'm not arguing that Hitler made mistakes, all leaders did at some stage.If Moscow would have fallen then it would have crippled Russia. just as an overrun London would have done the same to this country. Incidentally, 30% of Russian equipment at the battle of Moscow was British, not American. including tanks and Hurricane fighters. US aid din't arrive until after the battle of Stalingrad.
If the Germans would have taken Russia, then they would have had all their vast resources and industrial capacity and slave labour - that's why he turned against Russia, to defeat them before the US entered. If Britain had fallen, Us troops would not have been able to use this country as it's staging post for the invasion
Certainly, the Russian winter hampered the Germans, but the winter thaw that turned the roads that they had to mud had far more impact on them. | | | |
| UK v France on 20:42 - Nov 1 with 658 views | KeithHaynes |
When the OP talks about who would win, are we talking about a well dressed fist fight, marbles, running backwards or head butting ? | |
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| UK v France on 12:42 - Nov 2 with 583 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| UK v France on 18:06 - Nov 1 by shingle |
So you still can not give a simple yes or no to what you were asked so lets ask again, do you believe the UK would have won the war without the Americans on board lets not try and worm your way out with the your avoidance of giving a simple answer, now come on you can do it YES or NO i really can not put it to you any simpler. |
I’m worming out of it by providing facts and dates that support my argument and disprove yours.
But to answer your completely hypothetical question. Yes we would have won. The Russians would have rolled into Berlin and defeated the Germans regardless of American influence. Of course it may have taken longer and because there would have been no D-day it’s possible that they would have continued rolling west and that Germany, France, Belgium etc would have been absorbed into the Soviet Union. It’s possible we may have ended up at war with the Russians and it’s hard to tell what would have happened in the pacific theatre with Japan. You’re literally asking me to write a new timeline here.
But the original point remains, at the time the Americans joined the war the Germans did not have the military capability of invading or occupying the UK. So this narrative of the US “saving our asses” from the Germans” is Hollywood nonsense to anyone with an IQ higher than the average shoe size. | | | |
| UK v France on 17:48 - Nov 2 with 563 views | shingle |
| UK v France on 12:42 - Nov 2 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
I’m worming out of it by providing facts and dates that support my argument and disprove yours.
But to answer your completely hypothetical question. Yes we would have won. The Russians would have rolled into Berlin and defeated the Germans regardless of American influence. Of course it may have taken longer and because there would have been no D-day it’s possible that they would have continued rolling west and that Germany, France, Belgium etc would have been absorbed into the Soviet Union. It’s possible we may have ended up at war with the Russians and it’s hard to tell what would have happened in the pacific theatre with Japan. You’re literally asking me to write a new timeline here.
But the original point remains, at the time the Americans joined the war the Germans did not have the military capability of invading or occupying the UK. So this narrative of the US “saving our asses” from the Germans” is Hollywood nonsense to anyone with an IQ higher than the average shoe size. |
You say we would have won without the Americans, that is all i needed to hear, you are a complete and utter plonker despite all your jargon and drawn out explanations, but at least you have admitted that you believe we would have won without the help of the Americans so i guess i must now rest my case. | | | |
| UK v France on 17:58 - Nov 2 with 562 views | shingle |
| UK v France on 18:57 - Nov 1 by controversial_jack |
I'm not arguing that Hitler made mistakes, all leaders did at some stage.If Moscow would have fallen then it would have crippled Russia. just as an overrun London would have done the same to this country. Incidentally, 30% of Russian equipment at the battle of Moscow was British, not American. including tanks and Hurricane fighters. US aid din't arrive until after the battle of Stalingrad.
If the Germans would have taken Russia, then they would have had all their vast resources and industrial capacity and slave labour - that's why he turned against Russia, to defeat them before the US entered. If Britain had fallen, Us troops would not have been able to use this country as it's staging post for the invasion
Certainly, the Russian winter hampered the Germans, but the winter thaw that turned the roads that they had to mud had far more impact on them. |
There you go that is what i said from the beginning but you blamed the weather, you say if Moscow had fallen it would have crippled Russia and it would have fallen, they were beaten and on there knees but for what ever crazy reasons Hitler as history tells us put it on hold and fcuked everything up so that is the main reason Germany ended up defeated, they were already on a downward spiral before the weather became a major factor. | | | |
| UK v France on 19:26 - Nov 2 with 530 views | controversial_jack |
| UK v France on 17:58 - Nov 2 by shingle |
There you go that is what i said from the beginning but you blamed the weather, you say if Moscow had fallen it would have crippled Russia and it would have fallen, they were beaten and on there knees but for what ever crazy reasons Hitler as history tells us put it on hold and fcuked everything up so that is the main reason Germany ended up defeated, they were already on a downward spiral before the weather became a major factor. |
I didn't blame the weather at all. I said the thaw caused considerable problems. The Germans had 3 army groups and something like 3 million men in action during operation Barbarossa.
There was no turning point as such.The Germans fought all the way to Berlin and hardly gave an inch.There was no collapse, just orderly retreats, when Hitler allowed it
An army of millions doesn't lose because of the weather , they got their cold weather supplies eventually.
There are many reasons, but the biggest reason the Germans lost was down to attrition, the Russians simply wore them down and took horrendous casualties doing so.
Not to take anything away from the Ivans or the Tommies, but it was Russia that defeated the Wehrmacht | | | |
| UK v France on 21:48 - Nov 2 with 518 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| UK v France on 17:48 - Nov 2 by shingle |
You say we would have won without the Americans, that is all i needed to hear, you are a complete and utter plonker despite all your jargon and drawn out explanations, but at least you have admitted that you believe we would have won without the help of the Americans so i guess i must now rest my case. |
Yes your case definitely needs a good rest. | | | |
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