| More information on the Convertible Loan note 19:41 - Dec 3 with 12704 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
This is an extract from the Structured dialogue held early this month. (presented on Planetswans) . Given in parenthesis
[Julian stated that last year ownership invested, via a loan note, around £10-13 million. Jake Silverstein invested half, Jason Levien and Steve Kaplan matched that and some of our other shareholders contributed smaller amounts, into a convertible loan note. This club is a debt free club, apart from the convertible loan note, which is designed to leave the club debt free. We have capacity in the loan note to be able to do more and there will be a need this year for them to do more. We need to understand what we need from the January window and get through the beginning of the summer window. Our financial year is from August, so if a player is sold in July, then it would go into this year’s numbers.]
It seems some of the local shareholders may also have contributed. Interesting.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2021 19:44]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:59 - Dec 12 with 805 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:50 - Dec 12 by Chief |
The trust stands for safeguarding the future of the club. Taking a dividend alongside the other shareholders at a time when the club is on the up to use in a legal case to secure substantial funds in future. Taking an inflated interest out of the club in the championship when the club is supposedly needing loans to function is certainly not safeguarding the future of the club.
Irrelevant options, none are feasible in the slightest currently.
The trust were not asked to help out with loans. This has been told to you and proven to you.
Winter needs to learn networking then. A public fan forum is not the place for this. And anyway, as per the first CLN, the trust will probably be excluded.
So they should take dividends? But then pay them back!? Are you confused? I don't think a minority shareholder would have the power to loan the club money. How can the trust work together with the Americans when the Americans are still after all this time not bothering to engage? As we know they didn't inform the trust of the CLN nor invite them to join it. No they don't, but it's by the far the most realistic option that makes the most business sense.
It is allowed - they plan to do just that by selling their shares to the Americans.
I notice you've completely glossed over the fact that your assumptions earlier in the thread were completely false. Care to comment on that or are you going to continue to ignore it?
Did you contact the club? Or did laziness trump your curiosity? |
One poster suggested Mr Winter had no obligation to reply to an outside party on internal matters. This was a reasonable point.
Having done a little reading I cannot find any reference to the club having an obligation to inform all shareholder that they were eligible to loan money to the club in a CLN. The SCST were clearly informed that Silverstein was loaning the club with a CLN and this was matched by other US interested parties.
At this point perhaps other local interests contacted the club and asked also to be involved as well it seems. The SCST if concerned at the "so called inflated" 5% (only 1% above UK inflation) could agree, if minded, to a lesser figure for the good of the club. Say 1.5% still 10 times they are getting off their good friends at Santander. (according to accounts)
The US people are very willing to engage and Mr Silverstein is in town until mid January. He sounds a like a great person. I like the cut of his jib. A communicator. It sounds like a listener as well. He will understand the SCST want to accumulate money.
It seems to me the position of fans is becoming fairly clear. They want to take money off the owners but not off the club. If the Trust take money directly off the US owners, the US owners will target the fans and club assets to get it back. This is logic. Swansea city is vehicle for everyone to profit or lose money.
You really are not too smart are you. SCST take £1m say when times are good in dividends. When the club is short of cash they loan the money back to he club getting 5% interest for 5 years. The club buys the like of Piroe with this money. The club sell Piroe for £10m and pays the SCST back £1,276,281 in 2025. Profit £7.7m. everybody happy. £10m minus £1m minus loan and interest payment) Its business.
If the SCST are unhappy at not being involved in the CLN they should contact Mr Winter. He can arrange for them to contribute to the second tranche and either take interest (my recommendation) or buy new shares. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:23 - Dec 12 with 790 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:59 - Dec 12 by ReslovenSwan1 |
One poster suggested Mr Winter had no obligation to reply to an outside party on internal matters. This was a reasonable point.
Having done a little reading I cannot find any reference to the club having an obligation to inform all shareholder that they were eligible to loan money to the club in a CLN. The SCST were clearly informed that Silverstein was loaning the club with a CLN and this was matched by other US interested parties.
At this point perhaps other local interests contacted the club and asked also to be involved as well it seems. The SCST if concerned at the "so called inflated" 5% (only 1% above UK inflation) could agree, if minded, to a lesser figure for the good of the club. Say 1.5% still 10 times they are getting off their good friends at Santander. (according to accounts)
The US people are very willing to engage and Mr Silverstein is in town until mid January. He sounds a like a great person. I like the cut of his jib. A communicator. It sounds like a listener as well. He will understand the SCST want to accumulate money.
It seems to me the position of fans is becoming fairly clear. They want to take money off the owners but not off the club. If the Trust take money directly off the US owners, the US owners will target the fans and club assets to get it back. This is logic. Swansea city is vehicle for everyone to profit or lose money.
You really are not too smart are you. SCST take £1m say when times are good in dividends. When the club is short of cash they loan the money back to he club getting 5% interest for 5 years. The club buys the like of Piroe with this money. The club sell Piroe for £10m and pays the SCST back £1,276,281 in 2025. Profit £7.7m. everybody happy. £10m minus £1m minus loan and interest payment) Its business.
If the SCST are unhappy at not being involved in the CLN they should contact Mr Winter. He can arrange for them to contribute to the second tranche and either take interest (my recommendation) or buy new shares. |
Should a fellow shareholder such as the trust be treated as an "outside party' then? Its an internal matter that could have serious implications for the trust.
No I stated this myself. Under its converted I doubt anyone else legally has to be offered the chance to loan. You are the one who stated the trust 'should have been'. In the spirit of 'networking' that you apparently value so highly, of course the trust should have been offered the opportunity to join. Especially in light of the new information that other shareholders are involved. Were they 'clearly' informed? The trust's statements which you are clearly ignoring again suggest otherwise. They say they weren't consulted prior to it being made public & weren't aware that it was completed &ready. From my conversation the trust are still waiting clarification on the detail of the CLN, so you should probably reappraise your stance on that.
Who knows when the sellouts got involved. The Americans / Winter / sellouts have been completely opaque on the matter, not only to the fans but also their remaining fellow shareholder. Could the trust do that? They haven't been invited to contribute. And as a minor shareholder probably can't demand to be involved with it being currently just a loan. You're in the realm of fantasy scenarios again now.
How can you say the Americans are 'willing to engage'? Based on who's testimony? Because that entirely conflicts with the only account we have on the matter - the trust's. The trust are still awaiting full details of the CLN a year on. A CLN they weren't properly briefed upon¬ invited to join in. In what way can that constitute the Americans being 'willing to engage"!!??? Bonkers. Good, he'll presumably back the trust's court case then.
Yes - you're finally getting it. The trust are taking the owners / sellouts to court. Not the club. It's not logic because that means the Americans handicapping their own asset which theyll now have a larger interest in, meaning the premier league dream will be even further distant and they'll never get their initial spend back with a league one team. Think deeper Resloven. It works.
Haha insults now. Don't lose your composure because you've been proven to be incorrect repeatedly. And on what basis? Nothing. When will things be good enough for the trust to take a million then? (Along with all other shareholders taking their cut too). Uh oh back to fantasy world again. I'm not sure what you're finding so difficult to understand about this - the supporters trust aren't going to want to take inflated interest out of club funds when it's struggling. For a body tasked with preserving and safeguarding the club what a ridiculous counter productive thing to suggest. Bonkers.
The trust have already raised the issue as per my correspondence. They still haven't received full clarity on it and still awaiting information a full year on.
This is how "networking' works in practice with these owners. |  |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:30 - Dec 12 with 780 views | Chief |
It's rather telling the change of tact Resloven.
Previous it was 'the trust were included / should have been included / would have been included'.
Now following evidence that they weren't included, the stance is:
'Winter / Americans had no obligation to include them anyway'.
Yet no criticism whatsoever of their conduct. Haha you've got to laugh. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 21:30]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 10:40 - Dec 13 with 732 views | Catullus |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:43 - Dec 11 by BillyChong |
Where did you get that £7m figure from? |
The same place he gets a lot of his info, false assumptions, guesses.
I've started to think he just thrives on the attention like a couple of other posters who put things on here simply to get bites. |  |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:09 - Dec 13 with 711 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 10:40 - Dec 13 by Catullus |
The same place he gets a lot of his info, false assumptions, guesses.
I've started to think he just thrives on the attention like a couple of other posters who put things on here simply to get bites. |
I object to the SCST going to court and giving millions to third parties. It is a not for profit organisation. The US owners were projected unfairly as Yankee voracious money grabbing hedge funders. This was fake. The SCST will have a pint and a curry with one of them and his family this week probably.
The costs were explained to a hand full of members a few years back by the representative of the funders and reported on the SCFC2 forum around 2018. I have a better memory than most. The numbers were in line with what I have expected after informal discussions with people in the trade. 30-35% is a ball park figure. 35% of £21m £7.35m.
The US people are smart. They will buy the SCST shares for the current market value of £8.4m, (21% of £40m) The rest will be paid for by the club after they return the CLN loan money to the owners and take on debt. How much is the CLN for? £13m coincidentally.
13m + 8m oh look it s £21m. The £13m will become club debt paid for by the fans and selling players and worse of all local job. This is my opinion only.
The SCST can argue the action will b not affect the club. It will if the US owners recover the £13m. I have asked how the SCST will invest the money. No answer. 0.15% no doubt. A little bit more than keeping it in a cardboard box like you grandfather did. Old farmer economics. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:19 - Dec 13 with 709 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:09 - Dec 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I object to the SCST going to court and giving millions to third parties. It is a not for profit organisation. The US owners were projected unfairly as Yankee voracious money grabbing hedge funders. This was fake. The SCST will have a pint and a curry with one of them and his family this week probably.
The costs were explained to a hand full of members a few years back by the representative of the funders and reported on the SCFC2 forum around 2018. I have a better memory than most. The numbers were in line with what I have expected after informal discussions with people in the trade. 30-35% is a ball park figure. 35% of £21m £7.35m.
The US people are smart. They will buy the SCST shares for the current market value of £8.4m, (21% of £40m) The rest will be paid for by the club after they return the CLN loan money to the owners and take on debt. How much is the CLN for? £13m coincidentally.
13m + 8m oh look it s £21m. The £13m will become club debt paid for by the fans and selling players and worse of all local job. This is my opinion only.
The SCST can argue the action will b not affect the club. It will if the US owners recover the £13m. I have asked how the SCST will invest the money. No answer. 0.15% no doubt. A little bit more than keeping it in a cardboard box like you grandfather did. Old farmer economics. |
Yawn. Same copy and paste rehash that doesn't address the post you've quoted. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:27 - Dec 13 with 695 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:19 - Dec 13 by Chief |
Yawn. Same copy and paste rehash that doesn't address the post you've quoted. |
I have answer Cattulus's post which was a personal criticism suggesting i post stuff just g for kicks.
A successful legal action will lumber the club with debt increase, season ticket prices substantially and possibly cost local jobs in my opinion
The third parties will be paid millions and the SCST appear to have no plan how to invest the money. It has been getting 0.15% over the last 5 or 6 years. I was getting over 1% in HSBC v business account bond over the same period. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:32 - Dec 13 with 690 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:27 - Dec 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I have answer Cattulus's post which was a personal criticism suggesting i post stuff just g for kicks.
A successful legal action will lumber the club with debt increase, season ticket prices substantially and possibly cost local jobs in my opinion
The third parties will be paid millions and the SCST appear to have no plan how to invest the money. It has been getting 0.15% over the last 5 or 6 years. I was getting over 1% in HSBC v business account bond over the same period. |
Well take your fight to the instigators of wrong-doing who's actions brought about the requirement for legal input.
Don't blame the wronged. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 14:02 - Dec 13 with 678 views | Algorfajack |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:09 - Dec 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I object to the SCST going to court and giving millions to third parties. It is a not for profit organisation. The US owners were projected unfairly as Yankee voracious money grabbing hedge funders. This was fake. The SCST will have a pint and a curry with one of them and his family this week probably.
The costs were explained to a hand full of members a few years back by the representative of the funders and reported on the SCFC2 forum around 2018. I have a better memory than most. The numbers were in line with what I have expected after informal discussions with people in the trade. 30-35% is a ball park figure. 35% of £21m £7.35m.
The US people are smart. They will buy the SCST shares for the current market value of £8.4m, (21% of £40m) The rest will be paid for by the club after they return the CLN loan money to the owners and take on debt. How much is the CLN for? £13m coincidentally.
13m + 8m oh look it s £21m. The £13m will become club debt paid for by the fans and selling players and worse of all local job. This is my opinion only.
The SCST can argue the action will b not affect the club. It will if the US owners recover the £13m. I have asked how the SCST will invest the money. No answer. 0.15% no doubt. A little bit more than keeping it in a cardboard box like you grandfather did. Old farmer economics. |
"I object to the SCST going to court and giving millions to third parties."
You can object as much as you like, but as you are not a member of the Trust then your objection is totally irrelevant. |  |
| Prediction league winner 2016-2017 aka llanedeyrnjack |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:52 - Dec 13 with 649 views | Catullus |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:19 - Dec 13 by Chief |
Yawn. Same copy and paste rehash that doesn't address the post you've quoted. |
I haven't read it, I'm not biting. Just scroll on past the inevitably long winded, self justifying answer. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:22 - Dec 13 with 640 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:52 - Dec 13 by Catullus |
I haven't read it, I'm not biting. Just scroll on past the inevitably long winded, self justifying answer. |
Target the poster not the message I understand he technique. Algorfa Jack sums things up nicely.
If the Members want to give £7m of the club's money to the English legal elite there is not much I can do about it. Still I do my best to persuade them not to. [Post edited 13 Dec 2021 17:29]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:49 - Dec 13 with 632 views | shingle |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 13:32 - Dec 13 by Chief |
Well take your fight to the instigators of wrong-doing who's actions brought about the requirement for legal input.
Don't blame the wronged. |
But Napoleon you feel wronged for the simple reason you are a very short guy who has to look up to people hence you are compelled to spend many hours on a football forum to get some type of self esteem.  | | | |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:25 - Dec 13 with 621 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:22 - Dec 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Target the poster not the message I understand he technique. Algorfa Jack sums things up nicely.
If the Members want to give £7m of the club's money to the English legal elite there is not much I can do about it. Still I do my best to persuade them not to. [Post edited 13 Dec 2021 17:29]
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Well you're conveniently deciding not to reply to my posts regarding the topic itself. I assume you quietly want it to go away seeing the it resulted in you being wrong and the Americans not being shone in a particularly good light?
But yes Algorfa is spot on. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:26 - Dec 13 with 620 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:49 - Dec 13 by shingle |
But Napoleon you feel wronged for the simple reason you are a very short guy who has to look up to people hence you are compelled to spend many hours on a football forum to get some type of self esteem. |
 haha class | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:36 - Dec 13 with 615 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:25 - Dec 13 by Chief |
Well you're conveniently deciding not to reply to my posts regarding the topic itself. I assume you quietly want it to go away seeing the it resulted in you being wrong and the Americans not being shone in a particularly good light?
But yes Algorfa is spot on. |
I answer all questions. I suspected the SCST were invited to contribute to the CLN but declined. You have correspondence they were not invited. This may not be a legal requirement for CLN. I m not an expert.
This does not mean they were excluded. Other shareholder got involved by asking to be allowed to join I suspect. If the SCST want to be involved in loaning money to the club they should contact Mr Winter. ( am sure he will help them). I understand there may be a second tranche of loans. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:51 - Dec 13 with 605 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:36 - Dec 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I answer all questions. I suspected the SCST were invited to contribute to the CLN but declined. You have correspondence they were not invited. This may not be a legal requirement for CLN. I m not an expert.
This does not mean they were excluded. Other shareholder got involved by asking to be allowed to join I suspect. If the SCST want to be involved in loaning money to the club they should contact Mr Winter. ( am sure he will help them). I understand there may be a second tranche of loans. |
There's plenty of questions I've given you that you've ignored. You obviously do not answer all questions.
You suspected incorrectly did you? No one said it was a legal requirement, but you did say the trust 'should have been invited'. They weren't, but yet no criticism for the Americans despite them acting like this?
Haha you can't genuinely be this deluded? It's this a wind up!? The trust were definitely excluded. They weren't invited to loan& weren't even informed that the CLN was finalised. Meaning they were excluded. What are you finding so difficult to understand about this? Are you that in love with the Americans that you physically incapable of accepting their wrong-doing!?
Who knows how the others got involved. When they did, would it not have been good practice and polite to inform the trust of this development? And then say, you can join too if you wish. But that didn't happen did it? And yet no criticism whatsoever from someone who apparently favours 'networking' so much.
And then you have the temerity on another thread to say the trust should co-operate with the Americans!
You couldn't make this up. You really couldn't. [Post edited 13 Dec 2021 18:55]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:06 - Dec 13 with 597 views | Catullus |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:49 - Dec 13 by shingle |
But Napoleon you feel wronged for the simple reason you are a very short guy who has to look up to people hence you are compelled to spend many hours on a football forum to get some type of self esteem. |
Napoleon was actually above average height for the times at about 5ft 6.5cm. Maybe it's be mor apt to call it Toulouse-Lautrec syndrome, he was 4'11. Or Dinklage syndrome, he's 4'5. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:10 - Dec 13 with 596 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:06 - Dec 13 by Catullus |
Napoleon was actually above average height for the times at about 5ft 6.5cm. Maybe it's be mor apt to call it Toulouse-Lautrec syndrome, he was 4'11. Or Dinklage syndrome, he's 4'5. |
Did you know Napoleon's niece is buried in Pembrey church yard? | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:20 - Dec 13 with 590 views | shingle |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:26 - Dec 13 by Chief |
haha class |
But sadly for you it`s oh so true Napoleon, you do realise you have been set up and proven to be a joke figure on here who can not be taken seriously welcome to the club sucker.  | | | |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:21 - Dec 13 with 588 views | shingle |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:10 - Dec 13 by Chief |
Did you know Napoleon's niece is buried in Pembrey church yard? |
Yep. he has the same name as you to. | | | |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:27 - Dec 13 with 582 views | shingle |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:06 - Dec 13 by Catullus |
Napoleon was actually above average height for the times at about 5ft 6.5cm. Maybe it's be mor apt to call it Toulouse-Lautrec syndrome, he was 4'11. Or Dinklage syndrome, he's 4'5. |
Come on now even the Chief aka Napoleon is not as short as that.  | | | |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:39 - Dec 13 with 570 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:20 - Dec 13 by shingle |
But sadly for you it`s oh so true Napoleon, you do realise you have been set up and proven to be a joke figure on here who can not be taken seriously welcome to the club sucker. |
Haha great stuff | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:40 - Dec 13 with 569 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:21 - Dec 13 by shingle |
Yep. he has the same name as you to. |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:40 - Dec 13 with 568 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:27 - Dec 13 by shingle |
Come on now even the Chief aka Napoleon is not as short as that. |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:02 - Dec 13 with 551 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:23 - Dec 12 by Chief |
Should a fellow shareholder such as the trust be treated as an "outside party' then? Its an internal matter that could have serious implications for the trust.
No I stated this myself. Under its converted I doubt anyone else legally has to be offered the chance to loan. You are the one who stated the trust 'should have been'. In the spirit of 'networking' that you apparently value so highly, of course the trust should have been offered the opportunity to join. Especially in light of the new information that other shareholders are involved. Were they 'clearly' informed? The trust's statements which you are clearly ignoring again suggest otherwise. They say they weren't consulted prior to it being made public & weren't aware that it was completed &ready. From my conversation the trust are still waiting clarification on the detail of the CLN, so you should probably reappraise your stance on that.
Who knows when the sellouts got involved. The Americans / Winter / sellouts have been completely opaque on the matter, not only to the fans but also their remaining fellow shareholder. Could the trust do that? They haven't been invited to contribute. And as a minor shareholder probably can't demand to be involved with it being currently just a loan. You're in the realm of fantasy scenarios again now.
How can you say the Americans are 'willing to engage'? Based on who's testimony? Because that entirely conflicts with the only account we have on the matter - the trust's. The trust are still awaiting full details of the CLN a year on. A CLN they weren't properly briefed upon¬ invited to join in. In what way can that constitute the Americans being 'willing to engage"!!??? Bonkers. Good, he'll presumably back the trust's court case then.
Yes - you're finally getting it. The trust are taking the owners / sellouts to court. Not the club. It's not logic because that means the Americans handicapping their own asset which theyll now have a larger interest in, meaning the premier league dream will be even further distant and they'll never get their initial spend back with a league one team. Think deeper Resloven. It works.
Haha insults now. Don't lose your composure because you've been proven to be incorrect repeatedly. And on what basis? Nothing. When will things be good enough for the trust to take a million then? (Along with all other shareholders taking their cut too). Uh oh back to fantasy world again. I'm not sure what you're finding so difficult to understand about this - the supporters trust aren't going to want to take inflated interest out of club funds when it's struggling. For a body tasked with preserving and safeguarding the club what a ridiculous counter productive thing to suggest. Bonkers.
The trust have already raised the issue as per my correspondence. They still haven't received full clarity on it and still awaiting information a full year on.
This is how "networking' works in practice with these owners. |
It is just the way business works. There are some thing which are a legal obligation and other things that are not.
My experience was in a share buy back where all shareholders were offered a prospectus. This is clearly different as a convertible loan note. It seems it was not necessary to invite all shareholders. Other know this better than me. It is quite a complex field.
Other shareholders it seems contracted the club and asked to get involved. They were not excluded. The SCST asked for more details but did not ask to become involved. Their enquiry will be answered in due course. | |
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