Forum | Rape of the Fair Country by johnlangy

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Rape of the Fair Country 12:59 - Jan 22 with 5605 views

I just signed the petition 'Save the Cwrtycadno Valley'. This is what they are trying to prevent.
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The Cwrtycadno and upper Cwm Cothi valley in Wales is an ancient area of exceptional beauty within a council designated Special Landscape Area and CADW designated Registered Historic Landscape. But it is currently under threat of being irreversibly destroyed.

A Guernsey incorporated private equity company, Foresight Group Holdings Ltd, registered in The Shard in London, has bought up an entire farm, Frongoch, in the centre of the valley. Their original plan was to blanket plant commercial, non-native conifers over most of the existing fields and hillside, selling off carbon credits to their financial investors for profit.

Such a proposed plantation would destroy productive agricultural land, both on the valley floor and on the hilltop, which has been sustainably sheep farmed for generations. A monoculture tree species of Sitka Spruce and Douglas Fir would detrimentally impact on native biodiversity and local ecosytems. It would irreversibly ruin the landscape of the valley.

Disturbingly, despite being incorporated off-shore, Foresight are also applying for Welsh tax payer money to cover their costs of the planting.
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I've already emailed our MS, Rebecca Evans. Hopefully the rest of you will do the same and email your Senedd member to ask them to prevent this criminal act.

John

Rape of the Fair Country on 21:44 - Jan 27 with 1379 views

Kilkennyjack

Rape of the Fair Country on 21:19 - Jan 27 by trampie
My tip to you is don't fall for the propoganda, Blighty is not always in the right and Johnny Foreigner is not always in the wrong, we are not always great at everything and they are not always rubbish at everything.

Great point Trampie.

We are fed the following drivel on a nearly daily basis …

Royal family - best in world
Parliament - best in world
BBC - best in world
British bobby on the beat - best in world
British army - best in world
British justice - best in world
Premier League - best in world
Team GB - best in world
NHS - best in world
British press - best in world
British education - best in world

Give it a fecking break ffs …. pretty unlikely for it all to true when you think about it … ðŸ‡¬ðŸ‡§ðŸ’©

Beware of the Risen People

Rape of the Fair Country on 21:56 - Jan 27 with 1367 views

trampie

Rape of the Fair Country on 21:44 - Jan 27 by Kilkennyjack

Yes exactly Kilkenny, how dull are people to believe all that all the time every time, it's laughable.

This country has got more foodbanks than McDonald's.

	Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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Rape of the Fair Country on 01:21 - Jan 28 with 1330 views

Treforys_Jack

Rape of the Fair Country on 21:56 - Jan 27 by trampie
Yes exactly Kilkenny, how dull are people to believe all that all the time every time, it's laughable. This country has got more foodbanks than McDonald's.

Aww

you 2 are cute fair play.

Rape of the Fair Country on 11:44 - Jan 28 with 1290 views

Catullus

Rape of the Fair Country on 21:19 - Jan 27 by trampie
My tip to you is don't fall for the propoganda, Blighty is not always in the right and Johnny Foreigner is not always in the wrong, we are not always great at everything and they are not always rubbish at everything.

Where have I ever said 'Blighty' is always right? On the same tack, maybe you need to remember that Blighty is not always wrong and possibly that Russia is not always right too. The way you put it, you'd think I never said anything critical of the governments and politicians of this country. maybe try taking your blinkers off?

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Rape of the Fair Country on 12:07 - Jan 28 with 1276 views

trampie

Rape of the Fair Country on 11:44 - Jan 28 by Catullus
Where have I ever said 'Blighty' is always right? On the same tack, maybe you need to remember that Blighty is not always wrong and possibly that Russia is not always right too. The way you put it, you'd think I never said anything critical of the governments and politicians of this country. maybe try taking your blinkers off?

My tip to you is "don't fall for the propoganda", that is what I said.

	Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll:	UK European Union membership referendum poll

Rape of the Fair Country on 12:13 - Jan 28 with 1274 views

Catullus

Rape of the Fair Country on 12:07 - Jan 28 by trampie
My tip to you is "don't fall for the propoganda", that is what I said.

Yes but it means nothing. Unless you are suggesting the build up of Russian forces on Ukraine's border is merely propaganda?

Is that what you are saying? And while I'm here, would a Russian invasion of Ukraine be wrong, yes or no?

PS, have you not fallen for the Russian propaganda, given your constant defence of them.

[Post edited 28 Jan 2022 12:36]

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
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Rape of the Fair Country on 12:45 - Jan 28 with 1267 views

trampie

Rape of the Fair Country on 12:13 - Jan 28 by Catullus
Yes but it means nothing. Unless you are suggesting the build up of Russian forces on Ukraine's border is merely propaganda? Is that what you are saying? And while I'm here, would a Russian invasion of Ukraine be wrong, yes or no? PS, have you not fallen for the Russian propaganda, given your constant defence of them. [Post edited 28 Jan 2022 12:36]

Dont fall for any propoganda.

	Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll:	UK European Union membership referendum poll

Rape of the Fair Country on 10:42 - Jan 30 with 1215 views

Catullus

Rape of the Fair Country on 12:45 - Jan 28 by trampie
Dont fall for any propoganda.

Propaganda being anything you don't believe or agree with.

Come on, be honest, do you think there isn't a build up of Russian troops on Ukraine's border? Otherwise what propAganda are you talking about? What exactly are you saying I shouldn't fall for?

Don't just say propaganda. Don't hide behind meaningless tags.

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog:	In, Out, in, out........

Rape of the Fair Country on 09:55 - Feb 19 with 1151 views

ExiledJack

This will not stop at the Cwrtycadno valley. Emissions targets have been decreed from on high and the Senedd is over a barrel. For the foreseeable future, Welsh taxpayer money will be used to fund the destruction of farmland whether any of us likes it or not.

The crux of the issue is that Wales is a net exporter of energy. Page 3 (or 6 of the PDF smh) of the report linked below shows that we produce twice as much as we need, and we already produce half of our consumption from renewables.
https://gov.wales/sites/defaul

The majority of the energy production in Wales is gas powered. Over recent months we’ve seen just how important that is to the energy mix, but there is no reprieve from the climate mandates. I wish this wasn’t the case.

Wales is being punished for hosting gas power plants, and other than those who are directly employed, the country does not benefit. These are not Welsh owned businesses, they are international interests.

As a country we have to pick our poison…should we keep our gas powered stations or our farmland?

Rape of the Fair Country on 11:15 - Feb 19 with 1132 views

Boundy

Rape of the Fair Country on 09:55 - Feb 19 by ExiledJack

It maybe more than we (the Welsh) need but what we produce is fed into the National Grid ( National being the key word) .Do you have the same objections for Asda for example, staffed by Welsh people paying the taxes in Wales . By your users name I'm guessing you're no longer living in Wales if so where do you spend your money ?

"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."

Rape of the Fair Country on 13:30 - Feb 19 with 1111 views

ExiledJack

Rape of the Fair Country on 11:15 - Feb 19 by Boundy
It maybe more than we (the Welsh) need but what we produce is fed into the National Grid ( National being the key word) .Do you have the same objections for Asda for example, staffed by Welsh people paying the taxes in Wales . By your users name I'm guessing you're no longer living in Wales if so where do you spend your money ?

You’ve pointed to part of the issue here. There is no nuance in the climate mandates for the supply we provide to our neighbours, it is Wales that needs to plant trees to cover that energy production. Money is made from that transaction, but the vast majority does not find its way into the Welsh public purse.

At our current population level, roughly 10% of the total land in Wales will need to be woodland in order to meet the climate targets. Roughly 11% of our land is arable and once it’s gone it’s gone.

I think it’s important to have a national conversation on what land we use to meet targets, and what emissions are worth the cost of further land set aside for trees. We’ll all have our own views and biases. I consider arable land our most precious resource and am 100% against a reduction in footprint, and have no related financial or personal interests.

Do you know the value of gas production to the Welsh economy and how much land we need to set aside to offset the emissions? That’s the trade-off, I’m only going off the information I have to suspect it’s not a worthwhile one.

You’ll have to explain to me your concerns around Asda. They no doubt have a carbon footprint, but I don’t see how we can do away with it? Rest assured I contribute tax to Wales.

Rape of the Fair Country on 10:01 - Feb 20 with 1066 views

johnlangy

Rape of the Fair Country on 11:15 - Feb 19 by Boundy
It maybe more than we (the Welsh) need but what we produce is fed into the National Grid ( National being the key word) .Do you have the same objections for Asda for example, staffed by Welsh people paying the taxes in Wales . By your users name I'm guessing you're no longer living in Wales if so where do you spend your money ?

I don't see the connection between what exiled is talking about and Asda.

But, as you've brought it up, you say 'staffed by Welsh people paying the taxes in Wales'. The tax paid by Welsh people working for Asda in Wales is registered as English tax.

I have objections to that.

Rape of the Fair Country on 10:17 - Feb 20 with 1055 views

Catullus

Planting more trees sounds good but surely we need to keep our farmers going as well. We shouldn't plant trees at the expense of farms.

Isn't part of the way forward to import less food and grow our own? The carbon footprint for food imported from overseas must be massive.

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
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Rape of the Fair Country on 18:07 - Feb 21 with 1026 views

johnlangy

Rape of the Fair Country on 10:17 - Feb 20 by Catullus
Planting more trees sounds good but surely we need to keep our farmers going as well. We shouldn't plant trees at the expense of farms. Isn't part of the way forward to import less food and grow our own? The carbon footprint for food imported from overseas must be massive.

I said i'd post any response I got. Below is the letter Rebecca received from Julie James (Minister For Climate Change). It may not answer everyone's concerns shown in this thread but at least it shows that they made an effort. The least that happens is that we let them know that people (voters) are watching.
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Thank you for your email of 23 January regarding the concerns expressed by your
constituents about tree planting on farmland.

The Welsh Government has declared a climate emergency. As part of our actions to tackle climate change, we need to plant 43,000 hectares of woodland by 2030, in line with advice from the UK Climate Change Committee. We want to reach our targets by encouraging farmers and landowners in Wales to plant trees. Properly managed, this offers a considerable opportunity to the rural economy to create green jobs and skills in harvesting timber for high value goods and we want the people of Wales to share in the benefits from woodland creation.

I recognise the concerns about private investment in woodland creation. To date, the
majority of projects funded through the Glastir Woodland Creation scheme have been
farmers planting woodland on their farms. In the last 10 windows of our Glastir scheme, 35 of the 1,121 successful applicants registered their address outside of Wales. All grant
funding is used to plant trees here in Wales.

We want farmers to be central to our aim of planting more trees in Wales. We are keen to avoid outside interests buying up large areas of land and we want to work with Welsh
farmers and landowners to achieve this. We are also clear that Welsh Government does not support “greenwashing” by companies and we will continue to encourage all
organisations, in all sectors, to reduce their carbon emissions to help us reach our Net Zero ambitions.

We need to plant a range of woodlands in Wales, including those planted to produce timber. Meeting net zero will require using more timber in sectors like construction to replace high energy manufacture materials such as steel and concrete. 80% of timber used in the UK is imported, so we need to grow more in Wales. All woodland creation supported by the Welsh Government must be in line with the UK Forestry Standard, which includes criteria on the types of species and avoiding negative impacts on biodiversity.

We recognise that tree planting has to be done in a way that respects our environment. All new woodland creation projects over five hectares are required to go through the
Environmental Impact Assessment process, which assesses potential impact on habitats,
wildlife and includes a requirement for public engagement about the project.
Consideration is also given to the potential impact of new tree planting on the historic
environment. Curatorial officers working in the four Welsh Archaeological Trusts provide
advice including guidance about the potential impact of planting schemes on individual
historic assets and historic landscapes so that this can be taken into account when
applications are being considered by Natural Resources Wales.

We want to encourage and help farmers to create woodland on their land, while avoiding
the most productive land and continuing to produce high quality food. We are committed to a sustainable, vibrant and successful agricultural sector and food chain, which helps to
underpin the wider rural economy.

As set out in the Programme for Government, we need to ensure our response to the
climate and nature emergency is embedded in everything we do. We need to provide the
right support to our farmers throughout the transition to a decarbonised food system and ensure Wales’ land is fit for the future. We will continue to develop our proposals for the Sustainable Farming Scheme with farmers to ensure we support them to continue to
produce our food in a sustainable way. This will allow us to become one of the best
countries in the world for sustainable farming, meeting our global obligations without offshoring food production to countries with lower standards.

I hope this information is useful in addressing the points raised with you by your constituents.
****************************************************
It's interesting to note that the letter is dated 23rd Jan just one day after the thread was created.

Rape of the Fair Country on 20:13 - Feb 21 with 1004 views

Boundy

Rape of the Fair Country on 10:01 - Feb 20 by johnlangy
I don't see the connection between what exiled is talking about and Asda. But, as you've brought it up, you say 'staffed by Welsh people paying the taxes in Wales'. The tax paid by Welsh people working for Asda in Wales is registered as English tax. I have objections to that.

Could you please explain your objection because I think you'll find we fall under as do the rest of the Britain a UK taxation system which applies to: England, Scotland (though there are some specific differences owing to Scotland’s unique legal system),and now Wales, Northern Ireland, and many of the smaller islands around the British coast. Furthermore, it includes oil drilling platforms in British territorial waters, though, notably, it excludes the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man .

"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."

Rape of the Fair Country on 15:21 - Feb 22 with 968 views

jasper_T

I work in the forestry industry so I'm biased but I've got no problem with us planting trees on farmland that was created by clearing natural woodlands in the first place. As long as the planting is well-planned (mono culture planting has definitely caused issues) we address environmental concerns, energy production and create Welsh jobs in the forest management/felling sectors.

Rape of the Fair Country on 18:13 - Feb 22 with 952 views

johnlangy

Rape of the Fair Country on 20:13 - Feb 21 by Boundy

You're right Boundy, we do fall under the UK taxation system system. As regards my post what I should have said is that firms like ASDA register their VAT and Corp tax at their invariably England based HQ's. And because those taxes are registered in England those taxes are classed as English tax.

My objection is this. Whenever UK National media report Wales' fiscal deficit they use figures based on that system. And because they do that the deficit figure they quote is wrong.

If they want to publish Wales' Fiscal Deficit they can only give an accurate figure if they take into account ALL taxes paid by Welsh people.

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