| Evils of hate. 19:44 - Jun 17 with 3805 views | Sirjohnalot |
When you hear Peter Bone and Priti Patel, watch this….
Matt Lucas, Who Do You Think You Are.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programm
It could so easily happen here
As it says in the Holocaust Museum in Berlin
‘It happened before it can happen again ‘ |  | | |  |
| Evils of hate. on 07:59 - Jun 18 with 1386 views | BryanSwan |
| Evils of hate. on 22:02 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Fair point re giving you the link
Hope that works.
Im left of centre. Certainly not a Tory but the extreme left of the Labour worry me too. I respect Rory Stewart, Yvette Cooper, Johnny Mercer eg I all like. |
The whole of politics has shifted rightward, the Tories have swallowed up most of the far right, UKIP, BNP etc in order to facilitate Brexit. Labour have drifted rightward, barring a few MPs the main leadership are centrist.
Starmer is the maybe even further right than Blair. |  |
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| Evils of hate. on 12:52 - Jun 18 with 1289 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 07:59 - Jun 18 by BryanSwan |
The whole of politics has shifted rightward, the Tories have swallowed up most of the far right, UKIP, BNP etc in order to facilitate Brexit. Labour have drifted rightward, barring a few MPs the main leadership are centrist.
Starmer is the maybe even further right than Blair. |
What that guy said in that link was not hateful or racist mind…
Hence why it wasn’t even a mention on the news. I tried searching for it and nothing came up hence why I had to ask what specifically he said.
You would swear he was burning a cross after what was said. He may not have nice views, he may not be a nice man (no idea who he is) - but on the evidence presented, he was neither racist or hateful there. |  |
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| Evils of hate. on 13:24 - Jun 18 with 1277 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Evils of hate. on 12:52 - Jun 18 by Dr_Parnassus |
What that guy said in that link was not hateful or racist mind…
Hence why it wasn’t even a mention on the news. I tried searching for it and nothing came up hence why I had to ask what specifically he said.
You would swear he was burning a cross after what was said. He may not have nice views, he may not be a nice man (no idea who he is) - but on the evidence presented, he was neither racist or hateful there. |
Matter of interpretation I suppose.
The problem is this isn’t an unpleasant bloke in the pub or at the football. This man is an elected MP who would have to represent people who may obtain citizenship from these countries he speaks against. If you were one of those could you have confidence he’d represent you to the best of his ability ? | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 13:54 - Jun 18 with 1252 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 13:24 - Jun 18 by Sirjohnalot |
Matter of interpretation I suppose.
The problem is this isn’t an unpleasant bloke in the pub or at the football. This man is an elected MP who would have to represent people who may obtain citizenship from these countries he speaks against. If you were one of those could you have confidence he’d represent you to the best of his ability ? |
Is it though?
Racism and hate are easily identifiable and have very clear definitions. The issue comes when people use artistic license with those meanings to come to the conclusion they like. A lot of people tend to do that in this day and age, especially around politics.
The amount of people I have heard call something fascist when it displays no criteria of fascism is laughable.
I don't know what this bloke is about, what his views are etc so I can't comment. All I can do is comment on the specific example you showed me.
Uncaring was the impression I had as I said. But being uncaring isn't a characteristic of the left or the right, its just a personal trait. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 14:17 - Jun 18 with 1244 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Evils of hate. on 13:54 - Jun 18 by Dr_Parnassus |
Is it though?
Racism and hate are easily identifiable and have very clear definitions. The issue comes when people use artistic license with those meanings to come to the conclusion they like. A lot of people tend to do that in this day and age, especially around politics.
The amount of people I have heard call something fascist when it displays no criteria of fascism is laughable.
I don't know what this bloke is about, what his views are etc so I can't comment. All I can do is comment on the specific example you showed me.
Uncaring was the impression I had as I said. But being uncaring isn't a characteristic of the left or the right, its just a personal trait. |
The fact that you and I genuinely believe what we say shows it’s interpretation. It may well be that those examples were fascism but you simply have a different view of what that word means ? Doesn’t mean you’re necessarily correct
Do you not agree that this person couldn’t represent these people he clearly has no time for ? Being caring should be a prerequisite for an MP as their job is to look after their constituents interests.
Not sure you and I will ever agree on many topics, we come at life from different viewpoints. Of course that’s not to say mine is right or yours is wrong. Just polar opposites. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 14:22 - Jun 18 with 1229 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 14:17 - Jun 18 by Sirjohnalot |
The fact that you and I genuinely believe what we say shows it’s interpretation. It may well be that those examples were fascism but you simply have a different view of what that word means ? Doesn’t mean you’re necessarily correct
Do you not agree that this person couldn’t represent these people he clearly has no time for ? Being caring should be a prerequisite for an MP as their job is to look after their constituents interests.
Not sure you and I will ever agree on many topics, we come at life from different viewpoints. Of course that’s not to say mine is right or yours is wrong. Just polar opposites. |
But it isn't interpretation. Otherwise I could say what you just posted was racist and you would have to accept that as a possibility.
Racism is clearly defined, you cannot make those assumptions on sentences that display nothing of the sort. People play very loose with words there days which is why everything is now ''racist''.
What race is he being racist to? And by what words used? | |
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| Evils of hate. on 14:44 - Jun 18 with 1216 views | BryanSwan |
| Evils of hate. on 12:52 - Jun 18 by Dr_Parnassus |
What that guy said in that link was not hateful or racist mind…
Hence why it wasn’t even a mention on the news. I tried searching for it and nothing came up hence why I had to ask what specifically he said.
You would swear he was burning a cross after what was said. He may not have nice views, he may not be a nice man (no idea who he is) - but on the evidence presented, he was neither racist or hateful there. |
With him i think its pretty obvious the underlying reasons for saying such things.
He is a pretty abhorrent individual so racism is really no stretch. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 14:50 - Jun 18 with 1205 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 14:44 - Jun 18 by BryanSwan |
With him i think its pretty obvious the underlying reasons for saying such things.
He is a pretty abhorrent individual so racism is really no stretch. |
But that is where people go wrong, once you start changing people's words to suit your own view of the person then things get created that aren't there.
If he says something racist then by all means lets have a go at him. But when he isn't saying something racist, we can't just pretend it is because of your thoughts of him.
Racist language is clear and provable and should not be used to poetic license. If he is racist then wait for the racist things he says, don't just make them up. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 15:15 - Jun 18 with 1192 views | BryanSwan |
| Evils of hate. on 14:50 - Jun 18 by Dr_Parnassus |
But that is where people go wrong, once you start changing people's words to suit your own view of the person then things get created that aren't there.
If he says something racist then by all means lets have a go at him. But when he isn't saying something racist, we can't just pretend it is because of your thoughts of him.
Racist language is clear and provable and should not be used to poetic license. If he is racist then wait for the racist things he says, don't just make them up. |
If they were stupid enough to outright say racist thing they wouldn't make it to be an MP. They deal in making statements that are easily attributed to racism etc but without directly saying it. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 15:22 - Jun 18 with 1178 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 15:15 - Jun 18 by BryanSwan |
If they were stupid enough to outright say racist thing they wouldn't make it to be an MP. They deal in making statements that are easily attributed to racism etc but without directly saying it. |
Easily attributed if that is the way you wish to serve your narrative, sure.
If he is a racist but isn’t saying racist things, then you can’t just accuse him of saying racist things anyway.
I may be a very violent man, but as long as I am not committing violence then you can’t really have a go at me for being violent, and you certainly can’t make it up. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 15:31 - Jun 18 with 1173 views | Lorax |
| Evils of hate. on 15:15 - Jun 18 by BryanSwan |
If they were stupid enough to outright say racist thing they wouldn't make it to be an MP. They deal in making statements that are easily attributed to racism etc but without directly saying it. |
I have already said as much, politicians choose their words carefully so they can imply something without actually saying it which gives them the wiggle room to deny any accusations.
Everything comes down to perception and interpretation. It's never as black and white as some people make out. Take myself personally, I am not racist, I try to treat everybody nicely and with respect until they give me a reason not to but my words have been misinterpreted or twisted by people to make me sound racist/homophobic or whatever other "ism" or "ist" you can think of. Sometimes I have simply worded something badly and left myself open to accusations. That's because the written word is harder to interpret because we have no visual cues, things get misconstrued. I have seen text messages and emails get badly misconstrued and lead to big arguments over pretty much nothing. We all need to be a bit cleverer with what we write and how we perceive or interpret things.
Of course, some things are written that are very clearly racist or discriminatory in some way. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 15:35 - Jun 18 with 1157 views | 73__73 |
| Evils of hate. on 13:24 - Jun 18 by Sirjohnalot |
Matter of interpretation I suppose.
The problem is this isn’t an unpleasant bloke in the pub or at the football. This man is an elected MP who would have to represent people who may obtain citizenship from these countries he speaks against. If you were one of those could you have confidence he’d represent you to the best of his ability ? |
And no doubt he represents people who agree with him 100% | |
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| Evils of hate. on 15:36 - Jun 18 with 1160 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 15:31 - Jun 18 by Lorax |
I have already said as much, politicians choose their words carefully so they can imply something without actually saying it which gives them the wiggle room to deny any accusations.
Everything comes down to perception and interpretation. It's never as black and white as some people make out. Take myself personally, I am not racist, I try to treat everybody nicely and with respect until they give me a reason not to but my words have been misinterpreted or twisted by people to make me sound racist/homophobic or whatever other "ism" or "ist" you can think of. Sometimes I have simply worded something badly and left myself open to accusations. That's because the written word is harder to interpret because we have no visual cues, things get misconstrued. I have seen text messages and emails get badly misconstrued and lead to big arguments over pretty much nothing. We all need to be a bit cleverer with what we write and how we perceive or interpret things.
Of course, some things are written that are very clearly racist or discriminatory in some way. |
So can I interpret as what you have said there as racist then?
If not, why not? | |
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| Evils of hate. on 18:11 - Jun 18 with 1131 views | Jack123 |
| Evils of hate. on 22:02 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Fair point re giving you the link
Hope that works.
Im left of centre. Certainly not a Tory but the extreme left of the Labour worry me too. I respect Rory Stewart, Yvette Cooper, Johnny Mercer eg I all like. |
I'll be honest, I have never heard of Peter Bone before, but that video clip seems he is just talking about the cost of it all, I don't see a great deal wrong with saying rather than book 50, book a full plane instead.
And this is not me talking about the decision to send them to Rwanda, just the fact if they are going, well what's the point of sending an empty plane? Make's no sense. |  |
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| Evils of hate. on 18:35 - Jun 18 with 1116 views | BryanSwan |
| Evils of hate. on 18:11 - Jun 18 by Jack123 |
I'll be honest, I have never heard of Peter Bone before, but that video clip seems he is just talking about the cost of it all, I don't see a great deal wrong with saying rather than book 50, book a full plane instead.
And this is not me talking about the decision to send them to Rwanda, just the fact if they are going, well what's the point of sending an empty plane? Make's no sense. |
He is not a very nice man, his political career includes calling the NHS Stalinist, opposing national minumum wage, gay rights, anything to do with supporting disabilities or welfare.
And going on to propose reintroduction of the death penalty and conscription.
How anyone votes for that i do not know. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 19:28 - Jun 18 with 1089 views | Jack123 |
| Evils of hate. on 18:35 - Jun 18 by BryanSwan |
He is not a very nice man, his political career includes calling the NHS Stalinist, opposing national minumum wage, gay rights, anything to do with supporting disabilities or welfare.
And going on to propose reintroduction of the death penalty and conscription.
How anyone votes for that i do not know. |
Thanks, Hmm, I think I would have to look at the context of his opposition to some of those.
Seems a rather odd set of things to oppose. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 19:36 - Jun 18 with 1080 views | Lorax |
| Evils of hate. on 18:35 - Jun 18 by BryanSwan |
He is not a very nice man, his political career includes calling the NHS Stalinist, opposing national minumum wage, gay rights, anything to do with supporting disabilities or welfare.
And going on to propose reintroduction of the death penalty and conscription.
How anyone votes for that i do not know. |
When he says conscription, I'm all for a form of national service but maybe be a bit more modern and offer something besides the armed forces. I'm not sure what that would mean but maybe people cleverer than I could make some suggestions.
Bone does not come across as a nice person, he definitely seems to have issues with LGBT and non white people. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 19:43 - Jun 18 with 1066 views | Wingstandwood |
I could never work out how someone was against the minimum wage when introduced because it was hardly generous at its then differing rates of (over 21 year old's) £3.60 and (21 year old and under) £3.00.
Thankfully the Conservatives never scrapped it! |  |
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| Evils of hate. on 19:47 - Jun 18 with 1061 views | Lorax |
| Evils of hate. on 19:43 - Jun 18 by Wingstandwood |
I could never work out how someone was against the minimum wage when introduced because it was hardly generous at its then differing rates of (over 21 year old's) £3.60 and (21 year old and under) £3.00.
Thankfully the Conservatives never scrapped it! |
Mind you, it was never fair to set different rates for those age groups, an hours work in the same job should be worth the same hourly rate regardless of age. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 20:38 - Jun 18 with 1032 views | onehunglow |
| Evils of hate. on 18:35 - Jun 18 by BryanSwan |
He is not a very nice man, his political career includes calling the NHS Stalinist, opposing national minumum wage, gay rights, anything to do with supporting disabilities or welfare.
And going on to propose reintroduction of the death penalty and conscription.
How anyone votes for that i do not know. |
He is certainly a masochist for not changing that surname | |
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| Evils of hate. on 20:43 - Jun 18 with 1027 views | Wingstandwood |
| Evils of hate. on 20:38 - Jun 18 by onehunglow |
He is certainly a masochist for not changing that surname |
Bizarrely he shares the same surname with a once rather notorious individual and one time Swansea resident. Now to say they are from opposites of the political spectrum would be an understatement! Cannot see those two ever agreeing on anything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ | |
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| Evils of hate. on 20:51 - Jun 18 with 1017 views | onehunglow |
| Evils of hate. on 20:43 - Jun 18 by Wingstandwood |
Bizarrely he shares the same surname with a once rather notorious individual and one time Swansea resident. Now to say they are from opposites of the political spectrum would be an understatement! Cannot see those two ever agreeing on anything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ |
If I recall right,one of the SCoW medical team was Dr Body.
Just as well this site doesnt allow profanity .  | |
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| Evils of hate. on 01:13 - Jun 21 with 884 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 18:35 - Jun 18 by BryanSwan |
He is not a very nice man, his political career includes calling the NHS Stalinist, opposing national minumum wage, gay rights, anything to do with supporting disabilities or welfare.
And going on to propose reintroduction of the death penalty and conscription.
How anyone votes for that i do not know. |
Being “not a very nice man” doesn’t mean you can take everything he says and make it “not very nice” though.
You have to use people’s actual words and points they make a respond to them. You can’t insert your own words and use your own context.
That’s the danger here. We were told that this was one of the most racist things ever said in parliament, full of hate and dehumanisation.
Turns out it was a bloke talking about the Rwanda police and saying we need to fill the plane instead of sending it half empty. It was nothing like described - meaning people make things how they want to. Which is an ever increasing problem at the moment.
Just like the Trump speech, no different to any political speech in the last 50 years. But apparently it’s all “dog whistles” and “subverted messages”.
People have gone mad. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 06:51 - Jun 21 with 851 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Evils of hate. on 19:47 - Jun 18 by Lorax |
Mind you, it was never fair to set different rates for those age groups, an hours work in the same job should be worth the same hourly rate regardless of age. |
Think you will find in most jobs you get paid more the more experienced you are.
It is pretty much standard practice throughout civil servants, public sector workers and private industries. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 15:33 - Jun 21 with 808 views | Lorax |
| Evils of hate. on 06:51 - Jun 21 by felixstowe_jack |
Think you will find in most jobs you get paid more the more experienced you are.
It is pretty much standard practice throughout civil servants, public sector workers and private industries. |
That's not what I meant. If I get a job and start on my first day alongside an 18 year old, I will automatically be paid more, why?
Paying for more experience is also a mistake to me, everybody has to learn, the exerienced pass on their knowledge. If you want more money work towards a promotion but exactly the same job in the same building should be worth the same money. | | | |
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