| The Welsh constitional commission on 07:58 - Mar 23 with 1365 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 23:16 - Mar 22 by Kilkennyjack |
The Brexit vote was an advisory vote for specific reasons.
The referendum franchise excluded —
16- and 17-year-olds,
expatriate British citizens who had lived abroad for more than a certain number of years, and
EU citizens resident in the UK and paying their taxes there.
It would seem obvious that all three groups should have been included as having the most material interest in the outcome of the vote. (In the franchise for the Scottish independence referendum of 2014, 16- and 17-year-olds had the vote and so did EU citizens resident in Scotland)
The outcome was that 37% of the restricted electorate given the franchise for the referendum voted to leave the EU. This outcome is by any standards insufficient to justify a constitutional change so significant as the UK’s exiting the EU.
The 1997 vote in Wales was over 50% of voters. And over 50% of them voted yes.
I hope you can see the difference. |
I have never agreed with giving children the vote. Such material change should have only been done with our consent, we didn't get a vote. It's typical of the Senedd to ride roughshod over the people.
Only British citizens should have gotten to vote, you only say EU citizens should have voted because then remain would have won.
The EU referendum had a 67% turnout much more than the senedd vote. |  | |  |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:58 - Mar 23 with 1322 views | Scotia |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 14:31 - Mar 21 by johnlangy |
Forced - 'imposed by coercion or physical power'.
Seriously. Devolution was 'forced' on us ! The only thing 'forced' on us was a referendum asking if we wanted to elect an Assembly. And the Welsh people said yes, we want it. No force at all.
You have a strange relationship with the meaning of that word Scotia. |
Yes forced, we've never had a realistic opportunity to get rid of the Senedd. Instead they've been given more powers based on a referendum with a pathetic tunout and now want to increase their numbers by 50% something the public have had no say on whatsoever.
Every major party in Senedd elections either want to keep the Senedd (Tories), increase powers and numbers (Labour and Lib Dem) or head for full independence (Plaid and the Greens). We don't have a realistic option to vote for a party who will abolish the Senedd. I see this as a key issue in Wales and want the option to express it.
I voted against devolution, against increased powers and am staunchly anti independecne. I have no option to express this at the ballot box without voting for a rather right wing minority party. So yes I'd consider that to be coercion.
All this for an establishment that 75% of the electortate expressed no desire to see in existence.
There are no paralells to the Brexit referendum, as there are major parties electable in a Westminster election who would rejoin the EU - the Lib Dems, Greens, the various nationalist parties of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. If the electorate of the UK want to rejoin the EU we will. Similarly with Welsh Independence, if the electorate of Wales want it it'll happen, thankfully that issue seems to have stagnated. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:11 - Mar 23 with 1271 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:58 - Mar 23 by Scotia |
Yes forced, we've never had a realistic opportunity to get rid of the Senedd. Instead they've been given more powers based on a referendum with a pathetic tunout and now want to increase their numbers by 50% something the public have had no say on whatsoever.
Every major party in Senedd elections either want to keep the Senedd (Tories), increase powers and numbers (Labour and Lib Dem) or head for full independence (Plaid and the Greens). We don't have a realistic option to vote for a party who will abolish the Senedd. I see this as a key issue in Wales and want the option to express it.
I voted against devolution, against increased powers and am staunchly anti independecne. I have no option to express this at the ballot box without voting for a rather right wing minority party. So yes I'd consider that to be coercion.
All this for an establishment that 75% of the electortate expressed no desire to see in existence.
There are no paralells to the Brexit referendum, as there are major parties electable in a Westminster election who would rejoin the EU - the Lib Dems, Greens, the various nationalist parties of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. If the electorate of the UK want to rejoin the EU we will. Similarly with Welsh Independence, if the electorate of Wales want it it'll happen, thankfully that issue seems to have stagnated. |
Did you vote Abolish at the last Senedd elections ?
Spoiler alert. Nobody else did. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:22 - Mar 23 with 1269 views | pencoedjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:11 - Mar 23 by Kilkennyjack |
Did you vote Abolish at the last Senedd elections ?
Spoiler alert. Nobody else did. |
Do you ever read what people post or just write the same recycled b0llocks believing one day somebody will take you seriously? |  | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 17:27 - Mar 23 with 1250 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:22 - Mar 23 by pencoedjack |
Do you ever read what people post or just write the same recycled b0llocks believing one day somebody will take you seriously? |
if ever a question didn't need asking because the answer is so blindingly obvious even the village idiot can see it. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 18:30 - Mar 23 with 1235 views | johnlangy |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:58 - Mar 23 by Scotia |
Yes forced, we've never had a realistic opportunity to get rid of the Senedd. Instead they've been given more powers based on a referendum with a pathetic tunout and now want to increase their numbers by 50% something the public have had no say on whatsoever.
Every major party in Senedd elections either want to keep the Senedd (Tories), increase powers and numbers (Labour and Lib Dem) or head for full independence (Plaid and the Greens). We don't have a realistic option to vote for a party who will abolish the Senedd. I see this as a key issue in Wales and want the option to express it.
I voted against devolution, against increased powers and am staunchly anti independecne. I have no option to express this at the ballot box without voting for a rather right wing minority party. So yes I'd consider that to be coercion.
All this for an establishment that 75% of the electortate expressed no desire to see in existence.
There are no paralells to the Brexit referendum, as there are major parties electable in a Westminster election who would rejoin the EU - the Lib Dems, Greens, the various nationalist parties of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. If the electorate of the UK want to rejoin the EU we will. Similarly with Welsh Independence, if the electorate of Wales want it it'll happen, thankfully that issue seems to have stagnated. |
You said 'Every major party in Senedd elections either want to keep the Senedd (Tories), increase powers and numbers (Labour and Lib Dem) or head for full independence (Plaid and the Greens). We don't have a realistic option to vote for a party who will abolish the Senedd. I see this as a key issue in Wales and want the option to express it.'
In 2021, in the Constituency vote 92% voted for Labour, Conservatives, Plaid, Lib Dem or Greens. And in the regional vote 90% voted for those parties. And all those parties are in Favour of retaining the Senedd. So that leaves 10% at most who are theoretically Abolish voters.
Now it could be that some, even many of the people who voted for the five parties mentioned do so because there's not an Abolish option. Actually there was an Abolish option but I accept they could be seen as a right wing minority party as you suggest. But being a minority party is exactly the nature of new parties.
But if as you seem to think there are so many out there who would vote for a centre Abolish party then why not set one up ? Many posters on here say there is a huge demand for such a party. Felix for example said 'despite widespread opposition to devolution' meaning he definitely thinks there are plenty out there.
It's no good just complaining all the time that there is no acceptable party out there to vote for. If you really believe there so many people just waiting for the party you're talking about then you'll do very well. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 20:21 - Mar 23 with 1211 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 18:30 - Mar 23 by johnlangy |
You said 'Every major party in Senedd elections either want to keep the Senedd (Tories), increase powers and numbers (Labour and Lib Dem) or head for full independence (Plaid and the Greens). We don't have a realistic option to vote for a party who will abolish the Senedd. I see this as a key issue in Wales and want the option to express it.'
In 2021, in the Constituency vote 92% voted for Labour, Conservatives, Plaid, Lib Dem or Greens. And in the regional vote 90% voted for those parties. And all those parties are in Favour of retaining the Senedd. So that leaves 10% at most who are theoretically Abolish voters.
Now it could be that some, even many of the people who voted for the five parties mentioned do so because there's not an Abolish option. Actually there was an Abolish option but I accept they could be seen as a right wing minority party as you suggest. But being a minority party is exactly the nature of new parties.
But if as you seem to think there are so many out there who would vote for a centre Abolish party then why not set one up ? Many posters on here say there is a huge demand for such a party. Felix for example said 'despite widespread opposition to devolution' meaning he definitely thinks there are plenty out there.
It's no good just complaining all the time that there is no acceptable party out there to vote for. If you really believe there so many people just waiting for the party you're talking about then you'll do very well. |
You cannot make such an assumption about people's views based on voting figures.
It's the same as assuming non voters support Labour orin brevity, would have chosen remain.
The number is unknown as we have no viable alternative, the only option we had were a bunch of extremist loonies. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 07:59 - Mar 24 with 1168 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 18:30 - Mar 23 by johnlangy |
You said 'Every major party in Senedd elections either want to keep the Senedd (Tories), increase powers and numbers (Labour and Lib Dem) or head for full independence (Plaid and the Greens). We don't have a realistic option to vote for a party who will abolish the Senedd. I see this as a key issue in Wales and want the option to express it.'
In 2021, in the Constituency vote 92% voted for Labour, Conservatives, Plaid, Lib Dem or Greens. And in the regional vote 90% voted for those parties. And all those parties are in Favour of retaining the Senedd. So that leaves 10% at most who are theoretically Abolish voters.
Now it could be that some, even many of the people who voted for the five parties mentioned do so because there's not an Abolish option. Actually there was an Abolish option but I accept they could be seen as a right wing minority party as you suggest. But being a minority party is exactly the nature of new parties.
But if as you seem to think there are so many out there who would vote for a centre Abolish party then why not set one up ? Many posters on here say there is a huge demand for such a party. Felix for example said 'despite widespread opposition to devolution' meaning he definitely thinks there are plenty out there.
It's no good just complaining all the time that there is no acceptable party out there to vote for. If you really believe there so many people just waiting for the party you're talking about then you'll do very well. |
Abolish was a right wing party and abolishing the Senedd is right wing politics.
Thats exactly why almost nobody in Cymru voted for them. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:04 - Mar 24 with 1156 views | Scotia |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 18:30 - Mar 23 by johnlangy |
You said 'Every major party in Senedd elections either want to keep the Senedd (Tories), increase powers and numbers (Labour and Lib Dem) or head for full independence (Plaid and the Greens). We don't have a realistic option to vote for a party who will abolish the Senedd. I see this as a key issue in Wales and want the option to express it.'
In 2021, in the Constituency vote 92% voted for Labour, Conservatives, Plaid, Lib Dem or Greens. And in the regional vote 90% voted for those parties. And all those parties are in Favour of retaining the Senedd. So that leaves 10% at most who are theoretically Abolish voters.
Now it could be that some, even many of the people who voted for the five parties mentioned do so because there's not an Abolish option. Actually there was an Abolish option but I accept they could be seen as a right wing minority party as you suggest. But being a minority party is exactly the nature of new parties.
But if as you seem to think there are so many out there who would vote for a centre Abolish party then why not set one up ? Many posters on here say there is a huge demand for such a party. Felix for example said 'despite widespread opposition to devolution' meaning he definitely thinks there are plenty out there.
It's no good just complaining all the time that there is no acceptable party out there to vote for. If you really believe there so many people just waiting for the party you're talking about then you'll do very well. |
But it's at most 92% of the turnout, which was less than 47%. Meaning somewhere around 57% of the population weren't bothered enough about who represented them in the senedd to put an "X" in a box at a polling station or on a letter.
I always vote, but effectively my vote is wasted especially in a senedd election in Swansea East. I won't vote for a party that has Mark Drakeford as leader. I won't vote for a party that advocates independence. I considered the overarching policies of "abolish" and agreed with most of them:-
*Abolish the devolved Welsh government, including the position of First Minister of Wales, handing over executive powers to the relevant departments within the UK government in London.
*Abolish the devolved Senedd (Welsh parliament; Welsh: Senedd Cymru) and hand over legislative powers to the UK parliament, in which 40 of the 650 MPs represent constituencies in Wales
*Integrate the NHS in Wales into the NHS in England
*Re-introduce prescription charges, currently £9.35 per item,[28] for people in Wales aged between 17 and 64 as is the case in England
*Remove the requirement for public services in Wales to be offered bilingually in the Welsh language and scrap Welsh language revival policies and targets
*Stop compulsory Welsh language education, abolish the National Curriculum for Wales and require Welsh schools to teach the National Curriculum for England instead
Allow schools in Wales to convert to academy status and allow the creation for free schools in Wales
*Repeal alcohol pricing laws
*Privatise Cardiff Airport
*Build an M4 relief road
*Abolish Welsh rates of income tax and restore stamp duty land tax as is the case in England
*Abolish Natural Resources Wales, reduce environmental standards for nitrate pollution and scale back rewilding projects
But as I've said scratch the surface and they were an anti-immigration and climate change denial organisation devolved from UKIP. I couldn't vote for them.
I don't know if there is widespread support for abolishing the Senedd, nobody does, but what is clear is there isn't a majority support (of the entire population) for the Senedd. Most people aren't interested in it and it hasn't benefited them. In fact if you don't live in the South East, speak Welsh or had an airport to sell it hasn't benefited anyone at all.
I'd love to establish a centre left political party that would include abolishing the Senedd as a policy, but frankly I haven't got the time and the system is completely set up against supporting new political parties.
I've mentined my thoughts on our democratic process before. We need compulsory voting and proportional representation. Of course it'll never happen. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 10:25 - Mar 24 with 1124 views | union_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:04 - Mar 24 by Scotia |
But it's at most 92% of the turnout, which was less than 47%. Meaning somewhere around 57% of the population weren't bothered enough about who represented them in the senedd to put an "X" in a box at a polling station or on a letter.
I always vote, but effectively my vote is wasted especially in a senedd election in Swansea East. I won't vote for a party that has Mark Drakeford as leader. I won't vote for a party that advocates independence. I considered the overarching policies of "abolish" and agreed with most of them:-
*Abolish the devolved Welsh government, including the position of First Minister of Wales, handing over executive powers to the relevant departments within the UK government in London.
*Abolish the devolved Senedd (Welsh parliament; Welsh: Senedd Cymru) and hand over legislative powers to the UK parliament, in which 40 of the 650 MPs represent constituencies in Wales
*Integrate the NHS in Wales into the NHS in England
*Re-introduce prescription charges, currently £9.35 per item,[28] for people in Wales aged between 17 and 64 as is the case in England
*Remove the requirement for public services in Wales to be offered bilingually in the Welsh language and scrap Welsh language revival policies and targets
*Stop compulsory Welsh language education, abolish the National Curriculum for Wales and require Welsh schools to teach the National Curriculum for England instead
Allow schools in Wales to convert to academy status and allow the creation for free schools in Wales
*Repeal alcohol pricing laws
*Privatise Cardiff Airport
*Build an M4 relief road
*Abolish Welsh rates of income tax and restore stamp duty land tax as is the case in England
*Abolish Natural Resources Wales, reduce environmental standards for nitrate pollution and scale back rewilding projects
But as I've said scratch the surface and they were an anti-immigration and climate change denial organisation devolved from UKIP. I couldn't vote for them.
I don't know if there is widespread support for abolishing the Senedd, nobody does, but what is clear is there isn't a majority support (of the entire population) for the Senedd. Most people aren't interested in it and it hasn't benefited them. In fact if you don't live in the South East, speak Welsh or had an airport to sell it hasn't benefited anyone at all.
I'd love to establish a centre left political party that would include abolishing the Senedd as a policy, but frankly I haven't got the time and the system is completely set up against supporting new political parties.
I've mentined my thoughts on our democratic process before. We need compulsory voting and proportional representation. Of course it'll never happen. |
Those issues chime with me almost to a tee.
Of course, timing is a very important factor for such a party (even a centre left one you allude to). Under a Tory UK government voters will see Wales governed by them as going against the grain. Any campaign needs to be done under a Labour UK government who will themselves support the abolishing.
It would be fantastic if a party with those policies and with the good if Wales under a UK government couldn’t form. Just a matter of time maybe? |  |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 10:42 - Mar 24 with 1126 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:04 - Mar 24 by Scotia |
But it's at most 92% of the turnout, which was less than 47%. Meaning somewhere around 57% of the population weren't bothered enough about who represented them in the senedd to put an "X" in a box at a polling station or on a letter.
I always vote, but effectively my vote is wasted especially in a senedd election in Swansea East. I won't vote for a party that has Mark Drakeford as leader. I won't vote for a party that advocates independence. I considered the overarching policies of "abolish" and agreed with most of them:-
*Abolish the devolved Welsh government, including the position of First Minister of Wales, handing over executive powers to the relevant departments within the UK government in London.
*Abolish the devolved Senedd (Welsh parliament; Welsh: Senedd Cymru) and hand over legislative powers to the UK parliament, in which 40 of the 650 MPs represent constituencies in Wales
*Integrate the NHS in Wales into the NHS in England
*Re-introduce prescription charges, currently £9.35 per item,[28] for people in Wales aged between 17 and 64 as is the case in England
*Remove the requirement for public services in Wales to be offered bilingually in the Welsh language and scrap Welsh language revival policies and targets
*Stop compulsory Welsh language education, abolish the National Curriculum for Wales and require Welsh schools to teach the National Curriculum for England instead
Allow schools in Wales to convert to academy status and allow the creation for free schools in Wales
*Repeal alcohol pricing laws
*Privatise Cardiff Airport
*Build an M4 relief road
*Abolish Welsh rates of income tax and restore stamp duty land tax as is the case in England
*Abolish Natural Resources Wales, reduce environmental standards for nitrate pollution and scale back rewilding projects
But as I've said scratch the surface and they were an anti-immigration and climate change denial organisation devolved from UKIP. I couldn't vote for them.
I don't know if there is widespread support for abolishing the Senedd, nobody does, but what is clear is there isn't a majority support (of the entire population) for the Senedd. Most people aren't interested in it and it hasn't benefited them. In fact if you don't live in the South East, speak Welsh or had an airport to sell it hasn't benefited anyone at all.
I'd love to establish a centre left political party that would include abolishing the Senedd as a policy, but frankly I haven't got the time and the system is completely set up against supporting new political parties.
I've mentined my thoughts on our democratic process before. We need compulsory voting and proportional representation. Of course it'll never happen. |
Compulsory voting? Not sure forcing an extra few million who don’t care into a polling booth to use eeny meeny miney mo to pick a candidate would help our crap government situation. |  |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:07 - Mar 24 with 1083 views | Whiterockin |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 10:42 - Mar 24 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Compulsory voting? Not sure forcing an extra few million who don’t care into a polling booth to use eeny meeny miney mo to pick a candidate would help our crap government situation. |
Force me to vote and I will vote you out, I wonder how many would feel the same. |  | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 18:42 - Mar 24 with 1047 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:04 - Mar 24 by Scotia |
But it's at most 92% of the turnout, which was less than 47%. Meaning somewhere around 57% of the population weren't bothered enough about who represented them in the senedd to put an "X" in a box at a polling station or on a letter.
I always vote, but effectively my vote is wasted especially in a senedd election in Swansea East. I won't vote for a party that has Mark Drakeford as leader. I won't vote for a party that advocates independence. I considered the overarching policies of "abolish" and agreed with most of them:-
*Abolish the devolved Welsh government, including the position of First Minister of Wales, handing over executive powers to the relevant departments within the UK government in London.
*Abolish the devolved Senedd (Welsh parliament; Welsh: Senedd Cymru) and hand over legislative powers to the UK parliament, in which 40 of the 650 MPs represent constituencies in Wales
*Integrate the NHS in Wales into the NHS in England
*Re-introduce prescription charges, currently £9.35 per item,[28] for people in Wales aged between 17 and 64 as is the case in England
*Remove the requirement for public services in Wales to be offered bilingually in the Welsh language and scrap Welsh language revival policies and targets
*Stop compulsory Welsh language education, abolish the National Curriculum for Wales and require Welsh schools to teach the National Curriculum for England instead
Allow schools in Wales to convert to academy status and allow the creation for free schools in Wales
*Repeal alcohol pricing laws
*Privatise Cardiff Airport
*Build an M4 relief road
*Abolish Welsh rates of income tax and restore stamp duty land tax as is the case in England
*Abolish Natural Resources Wales, reduce environmental standards for nitrate pollution and scale back rewilding projects
But as I've said scratch the surface and they were an anti-immigration and climate change denial organisation devolved from UKIP. I couldn't vote for them.
I don't know if there is widespread support for abolishing the Senedd, nobody does, but what is clear is there isn't a majority support (of the entire population) for the Senedd. Most people aren't interested in it and it hasn't benefited them. In fact if you don't live in the South East, speak Welsh or had an airport to sell it hasn't benefited anyone at all.
I'd love to establish a centre left political party that would include abolishing the Senedd as a policy, but frankly I haven't got the time and the system is completely set up against supporting new political parties.
I've mentined my thoughts on our democratic process before. We need compulsory voting and proportional representation. Of course it'll never happen. |
Those are right wing policies.
Nobody in Wales voted for them. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 22:29 - Mar 24 with 997 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 18:42 - Mar 24 by Kilkennyjack |
Those are right wing policies.
Nobody in Wales voted for them. |
How is building a new road a right wing policy?
If you asked the people of Wales if they wanted investment in new roads they answer would be a resounding yes.
There are over 2,000,000 cars in Wales which equates to 80% of the Welsh adult population.
Drakeford of course will not ask the people. | |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 17:44 - Mar 26 with 919 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 22:29 - Mar 24 by felixstowe_jack |
How is building a new road a right wing policy?
If you asked the people of Wales if they wanted investment in new roads they answer would be a resounding yes.
There are over 2,000,000 cars in Wales which equates to 80% of the Welsh adult population.
Drakeford of course will not ask the people. |
Look at the list.
Read and re-read.
This are right wing Brit nat policies akin to muscular unionism, aiming for the complete assimilation of Cymru into England.
Devolution is a socialist principle, whereas increased diktats from the centre is right wing authoritarian politics.
This is Putins mindset with Ukraine. The bully taunts the brave. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 18:52 - Mar 26 with 900 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 17:44 - Mar 26 by Kilkennyjack |
Look at the list.
Read and re-read.
This are right wing Brit nat policies akin to muscular unionism, aiming for the complete assimilation of Cymru into England.
Devolution is a socialist principle, whereas increased diktats from the centre is right wing authoritarian politics.
This is Putins mindset with Ukraine. The bully taunts the brave. |
You don’t mind diktats when they came from Brussels. | |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 22:15 - Mar 26 with 865 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 18:52 - Mar 26 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
You don’t mind diktats when they came from Brussels. |
Brussels did not produce Thatcher or Johnson.
The lessons of post war - never again - Europe, produced peace, prosperity and freedom.
Treating small nations as equals.
Contrasts hard with friendless, poorer, anti immigrant, anti unions Brexit Britain. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 08:51 - Mar 27 with 827 views | Scotia |
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
This should really be unforgiveable, of course it will be forgotten about by the next election. WOL paint this as a Tory / Westminster issue, it isn't it's complete ineptitude from the Senedd. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:52 - Mar 27 with 802 views | Whiterockin |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 08:51 - Mar 27 by Scotia |
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
This should really be unforgiveable, of course it will be forgotten about by the next election. WOL paint this as a Tory / Westminster issue, it isn't it's complete ineptitude from the Senedd. |
It's not unusual if you get money from any form of government, be it Westminster, local or even Senedd for it to be withdrawn if its not used in the alloted timescale. The problem is the budget could then be reduced again the following year, that's why everyone, rightly or wrongfully spends their allocation. Its just more incompetence by the Senedd. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 10:25 - Mar 27 with 776 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 22:15 - Mar 26 by Kilkennyjack |
Brussels did not produce Thatcher or Johnson.
The lessons of post war - never again - Europe, produced peace, prosperity and freedom.
Treating small nations as equals.
Contrasts hard with friendless, poorer, anti immigrant, anti unions Brexit Britain. |
Who rescued Europe so there could be a post war peace? The UK, USA and Russia. Us three countries gave them the post war opportunity.
Now then, what we're Putins reasons for invading Ukraine? Among them were not wanting Ukraine to join the EU. Therefore the EU empire building contributed to causing g more war in Europe.
Brussels dulid not produce any politician of note. Many of the euro coats are failed politicians in their own countries, like Verhofstadt.
Now this prisoerity lie, why are so many strikes happening across Europe? There's strikes in Germany today apparently? In France its because the government is trying to cut spending because its state pension is not affordable.
Maybe here in the UK we should try burning a town Hall.
PS, the UK us mot anti immigrant, anti union OR friendless. It's more hyperbole from you.. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:02 - Mar 27 with 767 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 22:15 - Mar 26 by Kilkennyjack |
Brussels did not produce Thatcher or Johnson.
The lessons of post war - never again - Europe, produced peace, prosperity and freedom.
Treating small nations as equals.
Contrasts hard with friendless, poorer, anti immigrant, anti unions Brexit Britain. |
Johnson spent a great deal of his early career in Brussels so perhaps it did play a part in producing him. Who knows?
Thatcher as you are no doubt aware was a great champion of European unity, cooperation and friendship. You may have seen the photos of her in that lovely jumper she wore to campaign for it. What she disagreed with however was the signing away of powers from parliament to a group of faceless unelected bureaucrats. And history would suggest that was one of the few things she was right about.
And this much vaunted peace you claim. For nearly fifty years half the continent was behind an iron curtain living in communist hell. We’ve had numerous wars and conflicts on the continent including a rather large one that’s happening right now. Much of Cyprus, a current EU member state is still under occupation from the 1974 invasion of forces from a foreign state. What has the EU done about that? Diddly squat.
Anyway I digress, this thread is not about brexit. I have somewhat derailed it by pointing out your obvious hypocrisy regarding diktats. I will now attempt to move it back onto topic by suggesting that the Welsh government should stand up and take accountability and responsibility when things go tits up instead of blaming everything on Westminster. | |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:37 - Mar 27 with 762 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 07:59 - Mar 24 by Kilkennyjack |
Abolish was a right wing party and abolishing the Senedd is right wing politics.
Thats exactly why almost nobody in Cymru voted for them. |
I know plenty of left wing labour voters who want to abolish the Senedd.
It is voters across all parties, except possibly PC, who wish to abolish the Senedd unfortunately left wing Drakeford won't give the people of Wales the option by calling another referendum even after 20 disastrous years.
How can any Welsh constitutional commission not include abolishing the Welsh Senedd as an opinion.
Only 18 year olds should be allowed to vote not children. [Post edited 27 Mar 2023 11:41]
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 12:27 - Mar 27 with 750 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 23:16 - Mar 22 by Kilkennyjack |
The Brexit vote was an advisory vote for specific reasons.
The referendum franchise excluded —
16- and 17-year-olds,
expatriate British citizens who had lived abroad for more than a certain number of years, and
EU citizens resident in the UK and paying their taxes there.
It would seem obvious that all three groups should have been included as having the most material interest in the outcome of the vote. (In the franchise for the Scottish independence referendum of 2014, 16- and 17-year-olds had the vote and so did EU citizens resident in Scotland)
The outcome was that 37% of the restricted electorate given the franchise for the referendum voted to leave the EU. This outcome is by any standards insufficient to justify a constitutional change so significant as the UK’s exiting the EU.
The 1997 vote in Wales was over 50% of voters. And over 50% of them voted yes.
I hope you can see the difference. |
Yes we can see the difference but clearly you cannot
The voting age in the Welsh Devolution referendum and Brexit referendum was 18.
In the brexit referendum 51.9% Voted to leave and turnout was 72.2%
In the Welsh Devolution referendum 50.3 % Voted for devolution on a turnout of 50.22%
Using your own logic
25.6 of Welsh voters Voted for devolution.
37.5 of UK voters Voted for brexit.
The Welsh Devolution referendum also stopped Welsh people still living in the rest UK from voting. The Welsh Devolution referendum was also an advisory vote.
The governments in place at the time decided to respect the result of both referendum and the respect the wishes of the voters. | |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:32 - Mar 27 with 705 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:02 - Mar 27 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Johnson spent a great deal of his early career in Brussels so perhaps it did play a part in producing him. Who knows?
Thatcher as you are no doubt aware was a great champion of European unity, cooperation and friendship. You may have seen the photos of her in that lovely jumper she wore to campaign for it. What she disagreed with however was the signing away of powers from parliament to a group of faceless unelected bureaucrats. And history would suggest that was one of the few things she was right about.
And this much vaunted peace you claim. For nearly fifty years half the continent was behind an iron curtain living in communist hell. We’ve had numerous wars and conflicts on the continent including a rather large one that’s happening right now. Much of Cyprus, a current EU member state is still under occupation from the 1974 invasion of forces from a foreign state. What has the EU done about that? Diddly squat.
Anyway I digress, this thread is not about brexit. I have somewhat derailed it by pointing out your obvious hypocrisy regarding diktats. I will now attempt to move it back onto topic by suggesting that the Welsh government should stand up and take accountability and responsibility when things go tits up instead of blaming everything on Westminster. |
The Senedd are even blaming Westminster for the financial cock up that saw over 150 million returned to Westminster.
Part of me thinks Drakeford underspent on purpose to give him something to bleat about. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 17:53 - Mar 27 with 672 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:37 - Mar 27 by felixstowe_jack |
I know plenty of left wing labour voters who want to abolish the Senedd.
It is voters across all parties, except possibly PC, who wish to abolish the Senedd unfortunately left wing Drakeford won't give the people of Wales the option by calling another referendum even after 20 disastrous years.
How can any Welsh constitutional commission not include abolishing the Welsh Senedd as an opinion.
Only 18 year olds should be allowed to vote not children. [Post edited 27 Mar 2023 11:41]
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No you don’t. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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