| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 100940 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:51 - Apr 23 with 701 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:18 - Apr 23 by Boundy |
Thought you were out  |
I am but dint let Winston O Boogie in on it | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 13:55 - Apr 23 with 704 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:45 - Apr 23 by Boundy |
I've asked you once before but where is the data published by the WAG and other institutions since the introduction in Wales, a link would suffice .I don't mean from other countries. |
I was referring to long term studies in the likes of Hull and Edinburgh, there is no data available for Wales as yet. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:37 - Apr 23 with 682 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:55 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
I was referring to long term studies in the likes of Hull and Edinburgh, there is no data available for Wales as yet. |
I don't see how you can compare data from two cities to a largely rural country like Wales. A totally different population density and each will have different problems and issues. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:17 - Apr 23 with 665 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:17 - Apr 23 by Boundy |
I think you need to sit down with your teacher and ask how to absorb & retain information , you're really struggling now.
Just for you, Life long stated that there is data available indicating the drop in accidents etc , I asked him where is the data from the WAG stating this, I suggest you revisit his post then maybe and its a big maybe you'll understand why the question was asked .
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You asked for data, it's not out yet | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:28 - Apr 23 with 616 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:37 - Apr 23 by Whiterockin |
I don't see how you can compare data from two cities to a largely rural country like Wales. A totally different population density and each will have different problems and issues. |
In fairness,Hull is a bit bigger than Swansea but smaller than Cardiff and is surrounded by rural areas . | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 16:36 - Apr 23 with 602 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:28 - Apr 23 by onehunglow |
In fairness,Hull is a bit bigger than Swansea but smaller than Cardiff and is surrounded by rural areas . |
The point is you can't compare stats from cities like Edinburgh and Hull and transfer it to the whole of Wales with less population density. Hull over 9,000 people per sq mile, Wales under 300 per square mile. You could compare city to city, but currently the default speed limit is for the whole of Wales do a comparison is impossible. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:31 - Apr 23 with 569 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:17 - Apr 23 by controversial_jack |
You asked for data, it's not out yet |
You're getting to the point of being beyond ridicule. You really don't understand the english language do you .Maybe forums are not for you ? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 17:41 - Apr 23 with 561 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:15 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
What has been proved in this thread is that reducing the speed limit from 30mph to 20mph in built up areas significantly reduces road accidents thereby significantly reducing injuries,some of which can be life changing.
Results of long term studies have been put up on here and have been totally ignored, how you can say Welsh roads are remarkably safe is incredible when 4000 people a year are injured on them. Those accidents are the ones reported to the police with many more, I would suggest, going unreported. |
18.2 BILLION vehicle miles of traffic travelled in Wales in 2022. 4447 casualties reported in the same period. Twelve incidents a day on average across the whole of Wales in a population of 3m people. I can't even calculate how rare incidents are per mile travelled.
I can say Welsh roads are remarkably safe because by every statistical measure that matters they demonstrably and indisputably are. You carrying on as if errant pedestrians are getting munched under wheels every other mile doesn't change that.
Much like Perchy, you've long gone past the point where reality matters to you on this subject. You've nailed your flag to the mast of HMS Undefendable and have every intention of going down with the ship. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 18:19 - Apr 23 with 537 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:41 - Apr 23 by Dr_Winston |
18.2 BILLION vehicle miles of traffic travelled in Wales in 2022. 4447 casualties reported in the same period. Twelve incidents a day on average across the whole of Wales in a population of 3m people. I can't even calculate how rare incidents are per mile travelled.
I can say Welsh roads are remarkably safe because by every statistical measure that matters they demonstrably and indisputably are. You carrying on as if errant pedestrians are getting munched under wheels every other mile doesn't change that.
Much like Perchy, you've long gone past the point where reality matters to you on this subject. You've nailed your flag to the mast of HMS Undefendable and have every intention of going down with the ship. |
You can say whatever you like, reality very much matters to me and the reality is far too many people are injured on our roads no matter how many irrelevant miles travelled you put up.
Similar to others on here you totally ignore important studies from other areas in the UK where 20mph has substantially reduced accidents. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:54 - Apr 23 with 513 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:19 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
You can say whatever you like, reality very much matters to me and the reality is far too many people are injured on our roads no matter how many irrelevant miles travelled you put up.
Similar to others on here you totally ignore important studies from other areas in the UK where 20mph has substantially reduced accidents. |
As has been said many times before money needs to spend on accident black spot and the Most dangerous roads which are of course rural A and B roads with national speed limits up to 60mph.
Money should not be wasted on relatively safe urban roads with 30mph limits.
Glad to see the Senedd have finally listened to public opinion and the actual evidence and will starting lifting their blanket 20pmh limit. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 18:55 - Apr 23 with 513 views | majorraglan |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:41 - Apr 23 by Dr_Winston |
18.2 BILLION vehicle miles of traffic travelled in Wales in 2022. 4447 casualties reported in the same period. Twelve incidents a day on average across the whole of Wales in a population of 3m people. I can't even calculate how rare incidents are per mile travelled.
I can say Welsh roads are remarkably safe because by every statistical measure that matters they demonstrably and indisputably are. You carrying on as if errant pedestrians are getting munched under wheels every other mile doesn't change that.
Much like Perchy, you've long gone past the point where reality matters to you on this subject. You've nailed your flag to the mast of HMS Undefendable and have every intention of going down with the ship. |
And of those 12 incidents per day, what would the breakdown of those incidents look like, how many in 30mph zones - now 20 mph, how many in 40mph etc etc etc, how many are linked to drink/drug offences etc, we need the detail.
I’d have no issue with a 20mph targeted at the right places to keep people safe. There’s an element of risk in almost everything we do, so what we need is intelligence led targeting and action to mitigate the risk and danger in hot spots.
Every year the police in Wales run an initiative to try and reduce the high number of motorcycle casualties amongst the motorcycling community who descend on mid and north wales, most of the crashes happen on national speed limit roads where the motorcyclists are ripping it up, dropping the 60mph to 40mph and penalising everyone isn’t going to make a difference because most of the headers are doing a ton plus. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:26 - Apr 23 with 471 views | Whiterockin |
It doesn't mater what those who support the 20 mph say anymore the ridiculous default law will be a thing of the past. Common sense has prevailed but at what cost. Can I suggest that the supporters of the law start a petition and see if they can top half a million. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:35 - Apr 23 with 449 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:19 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
You can say whatever you like, reality very much matters to me and the reality is far too many people are injured on our roads no matter how many irrelevant miles travelled you put up.
Similar to others on here you totally ignore important studies from other areas in the UK where 20mph has substantially reduced accidents. |
And the reality is that the transport minister has recognised a badly thought out, badly planned and implemented law and is making changes, reversing many of the changes it seems.
Those studies, as you have been told, was comparing apples with oranges. When the Welsh data comes out what will we see?
Despite the 20 zones people continued to die on Welsh roads, mostly on roads that weren't 20 but acidents continued to happen on 20 roads as drivers who ignored 30 carried on and ignored 20. that is the reality.
To slow drivers down we need more police on the roads, more cameras and other calming measures and even then, when caught these dangerous drivers need to be prperly punished.
On the M4 the only reason people do 50 or less is the average speed caneras, on unonitored areas they hurtle along at well over 70. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:45 - Apr 23 with 447 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:35 - Apr 23 by SullutaCreturned |
And the reality is that the transport minister has recognised a badly thought out, badly planned and implemented law and is making changes, reversing many of the changes it seems.
Those studies, as you have been told, was comparing apples with oranges. When the Welsh data comes out what will we see?
Despite the 20 zones people continued to die on Welsh roads, mostly on roads that weren't 20 but acidents continued to happen on 20 roads as drivers who ignored 30 carried on and ignored 20. that is the reality.
To slow drivers down we need more police on the roads, more cameras and other calming measures and even then, when caught these dangerous drivers need to be prperly punished.
On the M4 the only reason people do 50 or less is the average speed caneras, on unonitored areas they hurtle along at well over 70. |
We will see nothing has changed because the Welsh Government have failed to enforce the new measures. Now they are saying it is now up to local people to say what speed limit they want..it’s pathetic. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:00 - Apr 23 with 433 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:45 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
We will see nothing has changed because the Welsh Government have failed to enforce the new measures. Now they are saying it is now up to local people to say what speed limit they want..it’s pathetic. |
It's called democracy, half a million signed a petition and the Senedd had to respond. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:10 - Apr 23 with 412 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:55 - Apr 23 by majorraglan |
And of those 12 incidents per day, what would the breakdown of those incidents look like, how many in 30mph zones - now 20 mph, how many in 40mph etc etc etc, how many are linked to drink/drug offences etc, we need the detail.
I’d have no issue with a 20mph targeted at the right places to keep people safe. There’s an element of risk in almost everything we do, so what we need is intelligence led targeting and action to mitigate the risk and danger in hot spots.
Every year the police in Wales run an initiative to try and reduce the high number of motorcycle casualties amongst the motorcycling community who descend on mid and north wales, most of the crashes happen on national speed limit roads where the motorcyclists are ripping it up, dropping the 60mph to 40mph and penalising everyone isn’t going to make a difference because most of the headers are doing a ton plus. |
How many would be linked to pedestrians not looking when they step out into the road, or walking whilst drunk, or any other reason. Those accidents will still happen at 20mph.
The point you make about motorbikes is a good one. Again, a huge swathe of accidents no doubt caused by bikers showing off and doing stupid things.
Easier to target the urban motorists though. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 20:21 - Apr 23 with 394 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:00 - Apr 23 by Whiterockin |
It's called democracy, half a million signed a petition and the Senedd had to respond. |
The law was passed in the Senedd with a clear majority, they had a duty to enforce it and have failed to do so. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:24 - Apr 23 with 364 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:21 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
The law was passed in the Senedd with a clear majority, they had a duty to enforce it and have failed to do so. |
They have listened to the majority, if only all governments did the same. You said they would never change back, you were wrong, get over it. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:34 - Apr 23 with 335 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:24 - Apr 23 by Whiterockin |
They have listened to the majority, if only all governments did the same. You said they would never change back, you were wrong, get over it. |
What majority?
They have buckled because of an iffy petition the origins of which are doubtful to say the least with thousands voting from England, Scotland, Ireland and overseas, even a few voted from the Falklands. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:39 - Apr 23 with 325 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:34 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
What majority?
They have buckled because of an iffy petition the origins of which are doubtful to say the least with thousands voting from England, Scotland, Ireland and overseas, even a few voted from the Falklands. |
Good job nobody is listening to you, even the Senedd have moved on. Common sense has prevailed. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:56 - Apr 23 with 290 views | union_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:21 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
The law was passed in the Senedd with a clear majority, they had a duty to enforce it and have failed to do so. |
Then I hope you vote accordingly at the next elections to show your displeasure. Win win😁 |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 21:03 - Apr 23 with 276 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:56 - Apr 23 by union_jack |
Then I hope you vote accordingly at the next elections to show your displeasure. Win win😁 |
Has the monster raving looney party got a candidate? | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:10 - Apr 23 with 242 views | builthjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:34 - Apr 23 by lifelong |
What majority?
They have buckled because of an iffy petition the origins of which are doubtful to say the least with thousands voting from England, Scotland, Ireland and overseas, even a few voted from the Falklands. |
A chap I know somehow voted 17 times. Not sure what the process was, but obviously open to abuse. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| The 20MPH punishments on 22:32 - Apr 23 with 221 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:10 - Apr 23 by builthjack |
A chap I know somehow voted 17 times. Not sure what the process was, but obviously open to abuse. |
If he had 17 different email addresses then yes its more than possible, otherwise I'm not sure how he could | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 22:33 - Apr 23 with 217 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:26 - Apr 23 by Whiterockin |
It doesn't mater what those who support the 20 mph say anymore the ridiculous default law will be a thing of the past. Common sense has prevailed but at what cost. Can I suggest that the supporters of the law start a petition and see if they can top half a million. |
Not quite yet, "Skates must change the exemption criteria for 20mph, otherwise no amount of campaigning to local authorities will change anything.
These are the current exemption criteria. They're worded in such a way that it's virtually impossible for any road to meet the test:
QUESTION A: ARE THERE SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS (OR POTENTIAL NUMBERS, IF SPEEDS WERE LOWER) OF PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS TRAVELLING ALONG OR ACROSS THE ROAD?
If the answer to A is ‘no’ then an exception for a 30mph speed limit may be appropriate.
QUESTION B: IF THE ANSWER TO A IS ‘YES’, ARE THE PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS MIXING WITH MOTOR TRAFFIC?
If the answer to B is ‘no’ then a 30mph speed limit exception may be appropriate.
If the answer to B is ‘yes’ then a 20mph speed limit will be appropriate unless the robust and evidenced application of local factors indicates otherwise.
If these don't change, I don't see how anything can change" | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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