| Few Thoughts 23:19 - Aug 5 with 24628 views | daveB |
Hard to know where to start today, Ainsworth has had all summer to put a game plan together, some sort of plan to stop opposition playing and to create goals and chances for us, that today was an absolute disgrace.
Just stood off them with everyone behind the ball, plan was when they have it keep dropping deeper, never tried to win the ball back, no closing just hold the shape it will be alright, never worked from the 1st minute, Watford could and should have scored 7 in the first half and added at least 3 more in the second. It was men against boys, the number of times the centre half ran 20 yards forward with not a tackle and 2 passes after they were in behind us was laughable
Ainsworth hung several players out to dry today. Playing Kelman in a 4-4-2 against this Watford team was suicidal. Chair stuck out on the left wing looking lost and bringing on Willock with 2 minutes left was a piss take. he can give it back the boys as much as he likes, maybe he should start doing it rather than playing tactics these players can't play.
Players have to take some responsibility as well, Dozzell went missing again. Kakay was embarrassing, Fox looked like he hadn't played football before and Field was awful as well. Gubbins did OK on debut but thats being kind, Duke Mckenna at least put a foot in, Begovic man of the match for keeping the score down but his time wasting at 4-0 down was awful.
One thing I noticed at half time is something Clive talks about a lot, our warm up. I went to the Womens FA Cup final in May, at half time both teams had proper training drills, cones out doing short quick passes then shuttle runs and the shootings practice. Watford today had players running together in one group others doing a triangle passing drill. Our lot? Willock and Richards doing kick ups and having a chat. Archer booting the ball to the other side of the pitch for Dixon Bonner to boot back to him and the others having a chat, no coaches to be seen, we've got hundreds of them why are they not managing this? It was beyond pathetic and sums up the general malaise at the club
We were marginally better second half mainly as we had some sort of shape and pressed the ball every now and then but it was still a long way from being any good and Watford really eased off yet still could have scored 2/3 more goals.
I thought we'd struggle before today, certain of it now. No one is finishing below that rabble. Needed major changes at the end of last season, still need them now and hiding behind FFP now. Ainsworth should have gone in May, Hoos as well, just sleepwalking towards League one [Post edited 5 Aug 2023 23:23]
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| Few Thoughts on 14:12 - Aug 6 with 2117 views | ngbqpr |
| Few Thoughts on 13:56 - Aug 6 by Northernr |
As you say in your post above this one though, it's about standards. Richards tossed it off in Austria, tossed it off last week at Oxford, you can't pick him regardless. I don't think you'll get a more 'arm round the shoulder' managerial combination than Ainsworth and Dobson, and neither Richards nor Willock are responding. |
That's just so...depressing.
It also sums up for me why, despite being a glass half full / happy clapper type, I see no way out of this with Ainsworth. |  |
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| Few Thoughts on 14:15 - Aug 6 with 2096 views | RangersDave |
| Few Thoughts on 23:24 - Aug 5 by vanrrrr |
100% . I do wonder if he has already lost the dressing room. I know they are a bunch of ne’er do wells but taking the piss with those subs as well as the clearly idiotic tactics unlikely to get em busting a gut for you |
The dressing room hasnt been with any of the last 3-4 managers.
The rot has been there , gareth or not! Fleetwood anyone? |  |
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| Few Thoughts on 14:30 - Aug 6 with 2011 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Few Thoughts on 00:04 - Aug 6 by ted_hendrix |
**One thing I noticed at half time is something Clive talks about a lot, our warm up. I went to the Womens FA Cup final in May, at half time both teams had proper training drills, cones out doing short quick passes then shuttle runs and the shootings practice. Watford today had players running together in one group others doing a triangle passing drill. Our lot? Willock and Richards doing kick ups and having a chat. Archer booting the ball to the other side of the pitch for Dixon Bonner to boot back to him and the others having a chat, no coaches to be seen, we've got hundreds of them why are they not managing this? It was beyond pathetic and sums up the general malaise at the club**
This Is so unprofessional and amateurish more so at 4-0 down at half time, I do not understand It, It is of course daft to keep going on and on and moaning about It on a MB but honestly and seriously we are getting worse by the minute absolutely we are.
If I could just grab one small bit of positivity from today that would help but I can't.
3.00pm today and I'm thinking here we go new season---clean slate lets get at them, we go again and a minute later? Christ almighty. |
I enjoyed Sinclair flattening their keeper…..but that was the one and only thing to lift the gloom. |  | | |
| Few Thoughts on 14:39 - Aug 6 with 1972 views | BostonR |
| Few Thoughts on 13:56 - Aug 6 by ParkRoyalR |
Your point on Gubbins surely brings us back to our Academy and the quality of scouting and coaching?
I hate criticising Ossie Kakay as undoubtedly a top lad, who I would like to see get a run, given our dearth of options, as a Right Midfielder in a 4-4-2, as has an engine, desire, a solid tackle and can get enough space against his man to put in a very decent first time cross, but....
What the hell is it with his body-shape and positional play where you frequently see him run a 20 yard loop turning his back on play in an effort to get back into the correct position?
Like Gubbins, surely body-shape and positional play is basic coaching and this comes back to our Academy, which Warburton (and Beale) were so dismissive of? |
Some of the pile-on towards GA is rightly justified. However, as per my previous post you have to look at whoever judged Gubbins good enough to start a Championship game, needs to be held accountable. It’s Ramsey and Hall.
If Gubbins is the best they produced then the leadership in the club needs to address the academy approach. The start of the re-building of this club should commence with the sacking of Ramsey and Hall tomorrow morning.
They must be picking up a fairly decent salary. Surely, there are some amazing young academy coaches busting to take their positions and change the approach. |  | | |
| Few Thoughts on 14:59 - Aug 6 with 1896 views | Benny_the_Ball |
I've kept my powder dry for a while but yesterday's performance was the limit. Sure, the squad is limited, but the outdated tactics Gareth is deploying do not help matters. One can only hope that Colback will improve the midfield and the club can bring in some able reinforcements in what remains of the transfer window. |  | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:00 - Aug 6 with 1893 views | dannyblue |
| Few Thoughts on 14:39 - Aug 6 by BostonR |
Some of the pile-on towards GA is rightly justified. However, as per my previous post you have to look at whoever judged Gubbins good enough to start a Championship game, needs to be held accountable. It’s Ramsey and Hall.
If Gubbins is the best they produced then the leadership in the club needs to address the academy approach. The start of the re-building of this club should commence with the sacking of Ramsey and Hall tomorrow morning.
They must be picking up a fairly decent salary. Surely, there are some amazing young academy coaches busting to take their positions and change the approach. |
Maybe Gubbins will be ok. Too soon to tell although admittedly I don't hold high hopes. But he wasn't at fault for any of the first three goals I don't think.
But on the broader point, yes, the years they've had is a good length of time to judge an academy and it's not delivering. Just Kakay, Lumley, and Furlong as league 1/championship level professionals.
The successes - Chair, Dieng, Manning, Eze, BOS, Willock - have been picked up at 18+. |  | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:01 - Aug 6 with 1885 views | Northernr |
| Few Thoughts on 14:59 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
I've kept my powder dry for a while but yesterday's performance was the limit. Sure, the squad is limited, but the outdated tactics Gareth is deploying do not help matters. One can only hope that Colback will improve the midfield and the club can bring in some able reinforcements in what remains of the transfer window. |
Turned my back on it at one point yesterday and saw your face mate. Not a happy customer  |  | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:02 - Aug 6 with 1881 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Few Thoughts on 10:04 - Aug 6 by dmm |
I agree with much of what's posted here and, from what I can tell, almost everyone feels the same way. Ains has now all but burned up the supporters' goodwill toward him.
I'm still shell shocked at what I witnessed yesterday. Being so inept and so insipid suggests Ains is not only incompetent but the players don't buy into his football. He simply has to go and go quickly otherwise the season is already over for us. |
And where precisely is the money coming from to pay him off and bring in a new manager with all of his own back room staff?
We can’t afford £350k to bring Forino in from Wycombe for gods sake. We are well and truly screwed financially, so Ainsworth isn’t going anywhere.
Where we are now is a culmination of 10 years of poor management, rank recruitment and a total failure of our academy. There is no hiding from it, we have to live with what we have got, even though Ainsworth hasn’t shown anything to indicate he knows what the hell he is doing. | | | |
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| Few Thoughts on 15:06 - Aug 6 with 1863 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Few Thoughts on 14:39 - Aug 6 by BostonR |
Some of the pile-on towards GA is rightly justified. However, as per my previous post you have to look at whoever judged Gubbins good enough to start a Championship game, needs to be held accountable. It’s Ramsey and Hall.
If Gubbins is the best they produced then the leadership in the club needs to address the academy approach. The start of the re-building of this club should commence with the sacking of Ramsey and Hall tomorrow morning.
They must be picking up a fairly decent salary. Surely, there are some amazing young academy coaches busting to take their positions and change the approach. |
Warburton put his head above the 'Academy is'nt good enough' parapet and it seemed to split the management into two camps, those who supported Warburton (Eustace) and those who supported Ramsey, Hall & Co (Ferdinand), leading to the departure of Warburton & Eustace.
Beale apparently made a similar point in the early days of his tenure when alledgedly the Academy was lobbying for the inclusion of some of their players in the 1st Team Squad and were told bluntly by Beale that they were'nt up to standard.
The worse re-appointing Warburton would do is sort out the Academy and for once make them accountable for their work. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:11 - Aug 6 with 1839 views | 1JD |
| Few Thoughts on 14:10 - Aug 6 by paulparker |
If you need to see how badly this club is run then look no further into the permanent signing of this waste of space how anyone can still make excuses for him and his “troubles” is beyond me |
You sound like a man who has never had his best friend murdered and the mental impact it can have on you and your life.
To say there are no excuses? I see compassion is not one of your strong points. Sometimes in life things are bigger than football. Sometimes we only know what someone is truly going through when we live through it ourselves.
I get the frustration with him, but I think he can only really be fairly judged when he has had a run of say, 10 games. He’s barely had 1 start has he? Some his fault (if you can count injuries as being one’s own fault, which personally I don’t), some not.
But overall, I find the criticism of Richards as well over the top, and at times, vitriolic. He’s got my support, and I’m hopeful he’ll be able to show us what he’s all about given a run of games, the speed of the division, and a bit of confidence behind him. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:23 - Aug 6 with 1789 views | dmm |
| Few Thoughts on 15:02 - Aug 6 by Burnleyhoop |
And where precisely is the money coming from to pay him off and bring in a new manager with all of his own back room staff?
We can’t afford £350k to bring Forino in from Wycombe for gods sake. We are well and truly screwed financially, so Ainsworth isn’t going anywhere.
Where we are now is a culmination of 10 years of poor management, rank recruitment and a total failure of our academy. There is no hiding from it, we have to live with what we have got, even though Ainsworth hasn’t shown anything to indicate he knows what the hell he is doing. |
I appreciate your point. I know we don't have any budget for players let alone anything else but, as I said elsewhere, won't the cost of relegation be greater the paying off Ainsworth and his team?
Player sales would appear to be the only way to bring in extra income but even that will have been earmarked for balancing the books.
You may well be right and, if that's the case, we're truly up the swanny without a paddle this season. |  | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:25 - Aug 6 with 1779 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Few Thoughts on 15:11 - Aug 6 by 1JD |
You sound like a man who has never had his best friend murdered and the mental impact it can have on you and your life.
To say there are no excuses? I see compassion is not one of your strong points. Sometimes in life things are bigger than football. Sometimes we only know what someone is truly going through when we live through it ourselves.
I get the frustration with him, but I think he can only really be fairly judged when he has had a run of say, 10 games. He’s barely had 1 start has he? Some his fault (if you can count injuries as being one’s own fault, which personally I don’t), some not.
But overall, I find the criticism of Richards as well over the top, and at times, vitriolic. He’s got my support, and I’m hopeful he’ll be able to show us what he’s all about given a run of games, the speed of the division, and a bit of confidence behind him. |
There’s no excuse for him not trying in the friendlies and no excuse for him mooching around disinterested like a kid in detention with Willock all afternoon. If he’s not a bad apple then he’s doing a great impression of one. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:26 - Aug 6 with 1770 views | gazza1 |
My view on Willock & Richards....good enough skill wise, good on their day but & it a big BUT.......if they don't work (& I haven't seen them this season) then they don't play - simples. They should be ashamed of themselves basically. You work your socks off for your fellow team mates, the supporters and the Club who pay their extortionate wages. Working hard is a given as far as I am concerned - I thought generally they all worked hard yesterday. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:34 - Aug 6 with 1743 views | baz_qpr |
| Few Thoughts on 15:00 - Aug 6 by dannyblue |
Maybe Gubbins will be ok. Too soon to tell although admittedly I don't hold high hopes. But he wasn't at fault for any of the first three goals I don't think.
But on the broader point, yes, the years they've had is a good length of time to judge an academy and it's not delivering. Just Kakay, Lumley, and Furlong as league 1/championship level professionals.
The successes - Chair, Dieng, Manning, Eze, BOS, Willock - have been picked up at 18+. |
That's not necessarily true there are others who have been picked off by other clubs up to 16 you can argue that it is the 16 - 18 year olds that is the issue and then way we have handled and managed the 18 year olds that we have brought in players and there contracts we should have made decent money off Manning, BOS, Dieng (all at larger clubs with a higher value now than we let them go for. |  | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:48 - Aug 6 with 1707 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Few Thoughts on 15:26 - Aug 6 by gazza1 |
My view on Willock & Richards....good enough skill wise, good on their day but & it a big BUT.......if they don't work (& I haven't seen them this season) then they don't play - simples. They should be ashamed of themselves basically. You work your socks off for your fellow team mates, the supporters and the Club who pay their extortionate wages. Working hard is a given as far as I am concerned - I thought generally they all worked hard yesterday. |
There is something very wrong if we bench our best player, by some distance, and our supposed talented acquisition who was brought in to ( theoretically) replace him and then play Kelman, Smyth and Dozzell.
Unless Ainsworth can get our best players out on the pitch in something resembling a sensible formation and giving 100%, for me he is not the manager I thought he was and will relegate us this season. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 15:56 - Aug 6 with 1687 views | Monkey_Roots |
The very next thing we should do is bring someone in to run this football club - from top to bottom.
Make a plan, devise a strategy, decide on a playing style.
This can’t be left up to GA, it’s too important.
I’m already sick of ‘The boys’… ‘The boys gave me everything’…
Also, leave off with the ‘I’ve learnt a lot today’… good grief, really? Isn’t that what preseason is for? We should have been ready for yesterday, we weren’t prepared. Dunne was the only real fly in the ointment, but he ain’t Pirlo, he’s not going to have been the difference.
I do wonder if his standards are still linked with WW, I’m not sure he’s not up to it, sadly. |  | | |
| Few Thoughts on 16:05 - Aug 6 with 1652 views | kropotkin41 |
If I understand the situation correctly, the club can't afford to sack Gareth. And for some reason, the man who made a reasonable fist of managing Wycombe for a decade can't get the team even to avoid looking embarrassingly amateurish on the first day of the season. We seem to have a number of players who can't play at this level; a number of players who won't play at this level, and we're staring down the barrel of getting hammered every game for the next 9 months. At the same time the club is being subbed by its owners to the tune of tens of millions of £s a year, and it is commonplace to read that there is a "cancer" at the club, the club's culture is broken, and that everyone from owners, to Lee Hoos, to coaches, to the manager, to the players are responsible for this parlous state of affairs.
Last season, any given thread on this forum was likely to include a statement that we had to avoid relegation at all costs. This season, you'll struggle to find anyone who thinks we're not the most certain of dead certs for the drop. This isn't a bind, or a double bind, it's more like a quadruple bind; it's the Gordian Knot of binds.
- Last week I was at "I don't think I should go to the game in Cardiff for the sake of my happiness." Now, I'm definitely not going. What a waste of money for the elusive long shot of seeing some miraculous turn around from a team of players whose commitment level barely matches that of an occasional travelling (but lifelong) fan such as myself.
- Let's say we lose every game for the next 10 games by 3 or 4 goals or more. This wouldn't surprise me at all. What do we think will happen? Will GA walk? (Because we can't sack him)
- My conclusion from all of this is simple: the only way out of this undeath is downwards. Maybe that won't just be relegation, maybe it will be administration, maybe it'll take QPR to within an inch of its life (or into a new incarnation). Then some rebuilding will presumably occur. It might be League One, I think it could well be lower. Luton went through it, and so have others. Nothing makes us so special that we'll sidestep the same fate.
Whatever it was that started all this, really disastrous ownership for years I'd guess, it's gone too far to be patched over by blaming GA, or even players. It's hopefully gone too far for anyone to go on living in fantasy land about solving it. QPR is going to need new ownership (personally, I'd like to see a new ownership structure) and an aim to live within the means of a small, unglamorous club with an ageing support base, a small ground, and a training facility that may never pay back the investment in it, and, again, as I understand it, doesn't even protect us from any young talent we do produce being snatched away by big clubs. How about breaking even, and just seeing where we find our natural level in the pyramid then? Shocking, but, I'd argue, better than this. Better than last season, better than pretty much any season in over a decade now. |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Few Thoughts on 16:09 - Aug 6 with 1629 views | dannyblue |
| Few Thoughts on 15:26 - Aug 6 by gazza1 |
My view on Willock & Richards....good enough skill wise, good on their day but & it a big BUT.......if they don't work (& I haven't seen them this season) then they don't play - simples. They should be ashamed of themselves basically. You work your socks off for your fellow team mates, the supporters and the Club who pay their extortionate wages. Working hard is a given as far as I am concerned - I thought generally they all worked hard yesterday. |
I agree with you in normal circumstances. But this is a proper crisis imo.
We are where we are, but how do we get to where we want to be? i.e., they're not stinking up the place because a) they've gone, preferably in exchange for some cash; or b) they're playing well and performing for us.
I think playing them is more likely to get us to where we want to be than not playing them. Don't play them and it's almost certain to continue this way. Play them and there's (perhaps a slight) chance they'll be re-engaged.... | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 16:12 - Aug 6 with 1596 views | Northernr |
I mean let's also not pretend that either Willock or Richards have turned in anything approaching an acceptable performance between them in the whole of 2023, never mind anything approaching game changing. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 16:12 - Aug 6 with 1580 views | Damo1962 |
| Few Thoughts on 16:05 - Aug 6 by kropotkin41 |
If I understand the situation correctly, the club can't afford to sack Gareth. And for some reason, the man who made a reasonable fist of managing Wycombe for a decade can't get the team even to avoid looking embarrassingly amateurish on the first day of the season. We seem to have a number of players who can't play at this level; a number of players who won't play at this level, and we're staring down the barrel of getting hammered every game for the next 9 months. At the same time the club is being subbed by its owners to the tune of tens of millions of £s a year, and it is commonplace to read that there is a "cancer" at the club, the club's culture is broken, and that everyone from owners, to Lee Hoos, to coaches, to the manager, to the players are responsible for this parlous state of affairs.
Last season, any given thread on this forum was likely to include a statement that we had to avoid relegation at all costs. This season, you'll struggle to find anyone who thinks we're not the most certain of dead certs for the drop. This isn't a bind, or a double bind, it's more like a quadruple bind; it's the Gordian Knot of binds.
- Last week I was at "I don't think I should go to the game in Cardiff for the sake of my happiness." Now, I'm definitely not going. What a waste of money for the elusive long shot of seeing some miraculous turn around from a team of players whose commitment level barely matches that of an occasional travelling (but lifelong) fan such as myself.
- Let's say we lose every game for the next 10 games by 3 or 4 goals or more. This wouldn't surprise me at all. What do we think will happen? Will GA walk? (Because we can't sack him)
- My conclusion from all of this is simple: the only way out of this undeath is downwards. Maybe that won't just be relegation, maybe it will be administration, maybe it'll take QPR to within an inch of its life (or into a new incarnation). Then some rebuilding will presumably occur. It might be League One, I think it could well be lower. Luton went through it, and so have others. Nothing makes us so special that we'll sidestep the same fate.
Whatever it was that started all this, really disastrous ownership for years I'd guess, it's gone too far to be patched over by blaming GA, or even players. It's hopefully gone too far for anyone to go on living in fantasy land about solving it. QPR is going to need new ownership (personally, I'd like to see a new ownership structure) and an aim to live within the means of a small, unglamorous club with an ageing support base, a small ground, and a training facility that may never pay back the investment in it, and, again, as I understand it, doesn't even protect us from any young talent we do produce being snatched away by big clubs. How about breaking even, and just seeing where we find our natural level in the pyramid then? Shocking, but, I'd argue, better than this. Better than last season, better than pretty much any season in over a decade now. |
Wise words as always K - and probably the logical outcome to prepare for. Hope I live long enough to see better days for our club 😉 | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 16:15 - Aug 6 with 1564 views | kropotkin41 |
| Few Thoughts on 16:12 - Aug 6 by Damo1962 |
Wise words as always K - and probably the logical outcome to prepare for. Hope I live long enough to see better days for our club 😉 |
F*ck me sideways, is it too much to hope for just to have a team that wins occasionally, draws occasionally, and has some players we can get behind, and isn't an absolute embarrassment in every department? "Apparently so!" Answers my depressed inner voice.  | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Few Thoughts on 16:25 - Aug 6 with 1509 views | dannyblue |
| Few Thoughts on 16:12 - Aug 6 by Northernr |
I mean let's also not pretend that either Willock or Richards have turned in anything approaching an acceptable performance between them in the whole of 2023, never mind anything approaching game changing. |
True. So what we're doing with them isn't working. Seems worth trying something else.
Willock's only started 6 times this year.
Get interests aligned. Give them the platform to get what they want. Big them up. Let them play street football with Chair while the rest of the team has a structure.
I mean I don't think it's a great plan. But I think it could be a slightly better plan than playing them for 1 minute or not at all, and relying on Kelman, Adomah, Smyth for creativity and goals...a slightly better plan in terms of watchability, results, and balancing our budget. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 16:26 - Aug 6 with 1493 views | Damo1962 |
| Few Thoughts on 16:15 - Aug 6 by kropotkin41 |
F*ck me sideways, is it too much to hope for just to have a team that wins occasionally, draws occasionally, and has some players we can get behind, and isn't an absolute embarrassment in every department? "Apparently so!" Answers my depressed inner voice. |
We don't ask or expect much... that's for sure. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 16:51 - Aug 6 with 1421 views | QPROslo |
| Few Thoughts on 15:23 - Aug 6 by dmm |
I appreciate your point. I know we don't have any budget for players let alone anything else but, as I said elsewhere, won't the cost of relegation be greater the paying off Ainsworth and his team?
Player sales would appear to be the only way to bring in extra income but even that will have been earmarked for balancing the books.
You may well be right and, if that's the case, we're truly up the swanny without a paddle this season. |
I appreciate the hiring and firing of Critchley and the hiring of GA was last season but we managed it which makes me suspect we could change Managers yet again somehow even if it is by an extra player sale. Playing like we played yesterday isn't going to increase the value of any of our players. Continue too long like that with Willock not even starting, Chair largely a spectator, Field overrun and Dykes wasting our 1 chance will leave our squad worth peanuts. | | | |
| Few Thoughts on 17:05 - Aug 6 with 1359 views | PhilmyRs |
| Few Thoughts on 14:06 - Aug 6 by daveB |
They won’t respond as for positivity they talk neither of them start games and in willocks never 2 in a row, players will just switch off if they are not gonna play
I completely agree with you about them not playing yesterday no issue with that but if both are staying we have to at some point get them in the team which might get them engaged a bit and give them a run in the side
If willock wants out he needs to play well in the next 3 weeks to bring about some interest |
Agreed. And in the Adel example didn’t Warnock come in and one of the first things he did was tell him that he’d be playing the next few games even though he’d been acting like a prat for the previous few weeks. Sometimes dropping players isn’t the only option. You can put them in the spotlight and make them answer to the fans on the pitch. Tarbs was sacking it off and Warnock basically said “you’re playing son and even if you’re crap you’re playing the next week”. Some players are worth the special treatment and while Willock is no Adel, he’s the best we’ve got when on form. | | | |
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