| Daily Mail Brexit Poll 18:27 - Aug 25 with 5682 views | johnlangy |
Now that's a shock. The Brexit loving DM ran their own poll asking it's readers to vote. And 84% voted to rejoin.
So even Daily Mail readers can get it right some of the time  |  | | |  |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:19 - Aug 27 with 1067 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:02 - Aug 27 by Whiterockin |
So do you accept as someone living in England that people living in Wales should have the opportunity to vote on if they want to continue with the Senedd or not. I voted for devolution and I am bitterly disappointed with how it has turned out. Pretty much the same way some voted for Brexit and are now think it was a mistake. 26 years in Wales is long enough, let's just see if the Welsh public still support the Senedd. |
I think that referendums with a 50% cliff edge is not a great way to run a democracy.
If polling showed a 60% wish to abolish the senedd, I’d expect one of the political parties to have it in their plans.
Unfortunately it as always will be based on half truths.
Let’s look at education. Wales performs munch worse than England. That’s true.
But.
Outcomes in wales track almost exactly with the midlands and the North. It’s skewed by the south east and especially London. Wales could catch up with no curriculum changes. Just up the number of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants into the country and parity will follow.
Straight comparisons in many areas just aren’t fair. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:32 - Aug 27 with 1042 views | Whiterockin |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:19 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
I think that referendums with a 50% cliff edge is not a great way to run a democracy.
If polling showed a 60% wish to abolish the senedd, I’d expect one of the political parties to have it in their plans.
Unfortunately it as always will be based on half truths.
Let’s look at education. Wales performs munch worse than England. That’s true.
But.
Outcomes in wales track almost exactly with the midlands and the North. It’s skewed by the south east and especially London. Wales could catch up with no curriculum changes. Just up the number of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants into the country and parity will follow.
Straight comparisons in many areas just aren’t fair. |
"If polling showed a 60% wish to abolish the senedd, I’d expect one of the political parties to have it in their plans"
Do you really think that AMs would put forward a plan that could possibly see their political future disappear.
Its not just Education, it's the complete failure of the infrastructure west of Cardiff that is holding back and chance we have of progression. We won't even talk about health and the failures. Its an absolute travesty that Powys, the biggest county in Wales doesn't even have a General Hospital. |  | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:37 - Aug 27 with 1036 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:32 - Aug 27 by Whiterockin |
"If polling showed a 60% wish to abolish the senedd, I’d expect one of the political parties to have it in their plans"
Do you really think that AMs would put forward a plan that could possibly see their political future disappear.
Its not just Education, it's the complete failure of the infrastructure west of Cardiff that is holding back and chance we have of progression. We won't even talk about health and the failures. Its an absolute travesty that Powys, the biggest county in Wales doesn't even have a General Hospital. |
Again, I’m not defending the indefensible and that lot in the bay have been poor.
However, I don’t think handing it to Westminster will necessarily so the improvements needed.
I’d add for health, as with education, it’s not like for like because of demographics. Compare wales to the North. It’s a much better comparison.
As for the political parties, there’s always the Abolish the Senedd Party if it’s the most important thing for voters. It worked for UKIP. Ish. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:54 - Aug 27 with 999 views | Whiterockin |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:37 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
Again, I’m not defending the indefensible and that lot in the bay have been poor.
However, I don’t think handing it to Westminster will necessarily so the improvements needed.
I’d add for health, as with education, it’s not like for like because of demographics. Compare wales to the North. It’s a much better comparison.
As for the political parties, there’s always the Abolish the Senedd Party if it’s the most important thing for voters. It worked for UKIP. Ish. |
"However, I don’t think handing it to Westminster will necessarily so the improvements needed."
But surely that is for people living in Wales to decide. People aged 40 now had no say in the devolution vote and many who did have now sadly passed away. These are different times with a different generation, why not have a vote. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:09 - Aug 27 with 972 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 18:54 - Aug 27 by Whiterockin |
"However, I don’t think handing it to Westminster will necessarily so the improvements needed."
But surely that is for people living in Wales to decide. People aged 40 now had no say in the devolution vote and many who did have now sadly passed away. These are different times with a different generation, why not have a vote. |
Significant new powers were voted for in 2011 so essentially a vote of support. That’s 15 years. Puts the rejoin referendum in 5 years time. Far too quick. Having said that I think that lots of those who voted leave have passed away which could lead to a big swing.
Cliff edge referendums are no way to govern. Look at the ongoing splits from Brexit.
What else should Welsh people have a referendum on? | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:14 - Aug 27 with 966 views | union_jack |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:09 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
Significant new powers were voted for in 2011 so essentially a vote of support. That’s 15 years. Puts the rejoin referendum in 5 years time. Far too quick. Having said that I think that lots of those who voted leave have passed away which could lead to a big swing.
Cliff edge referendums are no way to govern. Look at the ongoing splits from Brexit.
What else should Welsh people have a referendum on? |
The rules of a referendum which drastically changes the status quo should be at least 65% in favour, not 50:50. The current situation would not have happened if that was the case. |  |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:20 - Aug 27 with 958 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:14 - Aug 27 by union_jack |
The rules of a referendum which drastically changes the status quo should be at least 65% in favour, not 50:50. The current situation would not have happened if that was the case. |
I went for 60% but I wouldn’t argue with you. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:36 - Aug 27 with 947 views | Dr_Winston |
I voted to leave in 2016. I have seen absolutely nothing since that makes me doubt that choice. If anything I'm even more certain of it.
The tantrums from the ruling class over the hoi polloi daring to give the "wrong" answer and their determination to ignore/override it.
The efforts from the remaining EU countries to punish the UK for daring to leave, like the abusive partner in a relationship.
The continued stagnation of EU economies, continued mass migration, high taxes, lack of innovation, increasing disregard for democracy
The rise elsewhere in the EU of political parties equally determined to put an end to the sham of European integration.
Brexit itself can't be blamed for the failure of political leadership to take advantage of the opportunities it offered. It was the UK's curse to be led during the leaving process by people who wished nothing more than to remain, and nothing has changed since.
Our politicians are so mediocre they're desperate for someone else to make the decisions for them. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:55 - Aug 27 with 926 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:36 - Aug 27 by Dr_Winston |
I voted to leave in 2016. I have seen absolutely nothing since that makes me doubt that choice. If anything I'm even more certain of it.
The tantrums from the ruling class over the hoi polloi daring to give the "wrong" answer and their determination to ignore/override it.
The efforts from the remaining EU countries to punish the UK for daring to leave, like the abusive partner in a relationship.
The continued stagnation of EU economies, continued mass migration, high taxes, lack of innovation, increasing disregard for democracy
The rise elsewhere in the EU of political parties equally determined to put an end to the sham of European integration.
Brexit itself can't be blamed for the failure of political leadership to take advantage of the opportunities it offered. It was the UK's curse to be led during the leaving process by people who wished nothing more than to remain, and nothing has changed since.
Our politicians are so mediocre they're desperate for someone else to make the decisions for them. |
In the 10 years since Brexit, which of the things you were concerned about if we remained have happened (Obviously, not ones that would have been vetoed or considerably watered down by UK involvement). | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:11 - Aug 27 with 920 views | Dr_Winston |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 19:55 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
In the 10 years since Brexit, which of the things you were concerned about if we remained have happened (Obviously, not ones that would have been vetoed or considerably watered down by UK involvement). |
Not really a question that can be answered with any certainty. Had the UK voted to remain then perhaps those in charge of the project would have been emboldened. Perhaps the UK's decision to leave has had an effect on nationalist parties within other EU countries.
My primary reason for voting to leave was my concern over the lack of democratic accountability at the highest levels of EU Government. That hasn't gone away. Ursula Von Der Leyen is already well into her second term as head of the EU without any direct public vote.
I don't think it can be seriously debated that Europe has fallen well behind in terms of economic growth and innovation compared to the US and China. There has been no European Google. No European TikTok. We're more concerned with harmonising charger cables than actually building companies. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:13 - Aug 27 with 918 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:11 - Aug 27 by Dr_Winston |
Not really a question that can be answered with any certainty. Had the UK voted to remain then perhaps those in charge of the project would have been emboldened. Perhaps the UK's decision to leave has had an effect on nationalist parties within other EU countries.
My primary reason for voting to leave was my concern over the lack of democratic accountability at the highest levels of EU Government. That hasn't gone away. Ursula Von Der Leyen is already well into her second term as head of the EU without any direct public vote.
I don't think it can be seriously debated that Europe has fallen well behind in terms of economic growth and innovation compared to the US and China. There has been no European Google. No European TikTok. We're more concerned with harmonising charger cables than actually building companies. |
Nothing in this sphere comes with certainty.
There’s nothing to say if we’d stayed there wouldn’t have been a positive impact on the tech industry. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:23 - Aug 27 with 908 views | Dr_Winston |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:13 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
Nothing in this sphere comes with certainty.
There’s nothing to say if we’d stayed there wouldn’t have been a positive impact on the tech industry. |
True, but you are dealing with likelihoods.
Is the EU obsessed with regulation and protectionism likely to have birthed a tech giant even if the UK had remained? Perhaps the closest thing to it is Revolut, and the founder of that is being chased out of the UK by punitive taxation.
It's worth paying attention to what's happening in the US. Plenty of major tech companies are relocating to "Red" states to avoid the kind of meddling from Democratic state legislatures that apes a lot of what the EU tries to do.
California has lost Billions in tax revenue as a result. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:32 - Aug 27 with 902 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:23 - Aug 27 by Dr_Winston |
True, but you are dealing with likelihoods.
Is the EU obsessed with regulation and protectionism likely to have birthed a tech giant even if the UK had remained? Perhaps the closest thing to it is Revolut, and the founder of that is being chased out of the UK by punitive taxation.
It's worth paying attention to what's happening in the US. Plenty of major tech companies are relocating to "Red" states to avoid the kind of meddling from Democratic state legislatures that apes a lot of what the EU tries to do.
California has lost Billions in tax revenue as a result. |
I’m quite worried about that, tbf.
Reform have come out and said they’ll take us out of GDPR. That would be a mistake as well IMO. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:39 - Aug 27 with 893 views | Dr_Winston |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:32 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
I’m quite worried about that, tbf.
Reform have come out and said they’ll take us out of GDPR. That would be a mistake as well IMO. |
Folks get worked up about GDPR, but realistically what does it mean? How many people actually read the user agreements that they click "accept" to online? How many don't use a Tesco/ASDA/Sainsbury's card? How many don't understand how much data the Govt already has on you? (It's a LOT).
If companies are making a few extra coins by selling my data, I can't say that I've really noticed other than seeing some oddly specific Facebook ads after I've visited eBay looking for a new watch strap.
For the most part it seems to be fairly needless indignation in search of legislation. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:50 - Aug 27 with 886 views | Scotia |
I'm reading "politics on the edge" by Rory Stewart at the the moment, admittedly an anti Cameron Europhile but according to him, the referendum was only included in the Tory manifesto to appease a handful of old thatcherite MPs.
It was far too important a decision to be left to a binary decision in a referendum, especially given the nonsense and media that surrounded it.
Cameron has a lot to answer for, Brexit was just the mid point. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:52 - Aug 27 with 886 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:39 - Aug 27 by Dr_Winston |
Folks get worked up about GDPR, but realistically what does it mean? How many people actually read the user agreements that they click "accept" to online? How many don't use a Tesco/ASDA/Sainsbury's card? How many don't understand how much data the Govt already has on you? (It's a LOT).
If companies are making a few extra coins by selling my data, I can't say that I've really noticed other than seeing some oddly specific Facebook ads after I've visited eBay looking for a new watch strap.
For the most part it seems to be fairly needless indignation in search of legislation. |
You’re very much against government overreach in this area, aren’t you? But happy for Tech bros to have it? They companies may have it but it still belongs to the individual (even if many don’t get this).
I can see medical records being worth a fortune if we lose the regs. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:54 - Aug 27 with 881 views | Dr_Winston |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:52 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
You’re very much against government overreach in this area, aren’t you? But happy for Tech bros to have it? They companies may have it but it still belongs to the individual (even if many don’t get this).
I can see medical records being worth a fortune if we lose the regs. |
Governments want to control me, which is hard to avoid. Tech bros want to make money by selling me stuff, which I can just scroll past.
Which one is going to impact my life the most negatively? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:58 - Aug 27 with 876 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:54 - Aug 27 by Dr_Winston |
Governments want to control me, which is hard to avoid. Tech bros want to make money by selling me stuff, which I can just scroll past.
Which one is going to impact my life the most negatively? |
If you don’t do anything wrong, probably the latter.
Unless you think you’re immune to the algorithms? | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:01 - Aug 27 with 872 views | Dr_Winston |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:58 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
If you don’t do anything wrong, probably the latter.
Unless you think you’re immune to the algorithms? |
Not immune. I just don't care. Sometimes I get a targeted ad that's actually useful, mostly I ignore them.
I'm just not on board with it being used as a scare tactic to maintain control by Governments who already have a lot more power than the Tech Bros and would quite like to retain it if they can. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:04 - Aug 27 with 860 views | Gwyn737 |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:01 - Aug 27 by Dr_Winston |
Not immune. I just don't care. Sometimes I get a targeted ad that's actually useful, mostly I ignore them.
I'm just not on board with it being used as a scare tactic to maintain control by Governments who already have a lot more power than the Tech Bros and would quite like to retain it if they can. |
It won’t be long before the tech bros are calling the shots, if they’re not already doing so. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:08 - Aug 27 with 854 views | Dr_Winston |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:04 - Aug 27 by Gwyn737 |
It won’t be long before the tech bros are calling the shots, if they’re not already doing so. |
Politicians are unlikely to yield power that easily. We're already seeing attempts made to bring them to heel. Been a court case with Meta today I think.
Corporations have money and power. Governments have legal systems, police forces and military. I'm not sure that the dystopian future run by major companies is coming any time soon.
As rich, powerful and influential as Elon Musk is, he could be broken quite easily by the US Govt if they put their minds to it. [Post edited 27 Aug 21:11]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:15 - Aug 27 with 843 views | Dr_Winston |
Just for the record, I have thoroughly enjoyed this back and fore.
Sensible, opinionated, educated and smart. Cheers Gwyn. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:24 - Aug 27 with 834 views | Scotia |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:08 - Aug 27 by Dr_Winston |
Politicians are unlikely to yield power that easily. We're already seeing attempts made to bring them to heel. Been a court case with Meta today I think.
Corporations have money and power. Governments have legal systems, police forces and military. I'm not sure that the dystopian future run by major companies is coming any time soon.
As rich, powerful and influential as Elon Musk is, he could be broken quite easily by the US Govt if they put their minds to it. [Post edited 27 Aug 21:11]
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They don't need to yield power yet. The algorithm controls minds, the rest could follow.
We're already seeing the massive expansion of idiotic conspiracy theories like chem trails and flat earth. Most anti-immigrant sentiment is fueled by misinformation being displayed to people based on something they've typed on to a meta search, it's self fulfilling.
Not everyone has the ability to see past it.
The point at the moment is the US government have no interest in breaking Musk, and china Tik Tok, for their own reasons. I'm quite glad the EU doesn't have similar. | | | |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:27 - Aug 27 with 834 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 20:39 - Aug 27 by Dr_Winston |
Folks get worked up about GDPR, but realistically what does it mean? How many people actually read the user agreements that they click "accept" to online? How many don't use a Tesco/ASDA/Sainsbury's card? How many don't understand how much data the Govt already has on you? (It's a LOT).
If companies are making a few extra coins by selling my data, I can't say that I've really noticed other than seeing some oddly specific Facebook ads after I've visited eBay looking for a new watch strap.
For the most part it seems to be fairly needless indignation in search of legislation. |
You only have to give your permission once to share your data on an internet site with the organisation itself and it's ' partners ' and your data is freely available. The introduction of GDPR has actually vastly increased data sharing because everyone ticks the terms and conditions boxes without reading.
There are data mining business that can give you the full lowdown on all households and individuals; finances, contacts, spending patterns, travel details, viewing habits etc.
It is all available now. |  |
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| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:33 - Aug 27 with 823 views | Dr_Winston |
| Daily Mail Brexit Poll on 21:27 - Aug 27 by JACKMANANDBOY |
You only have to give your permission once to share your data on an internet site with the organisation itself and it's ' partners ' and your data is freely available. The introduction of GDPR has actually vastly increased data sharing because everyone ticks the terms and conditions boxes without reading.
There are data mining business that can give you the full lowdown on all households and individuals; finances, contacts, spending patterns, travel details, viewing habits etc.
It is all available now. |
Yep.
People will rail against Corporate overreach via a Tweet from their iPhone. It's just idiocy.
Assume that if you're using a service that you're not paying for then the service provider is profiting in other ways. In the vast majority of cases that's just for marketing purposes rather than for anything sinister.
It's those who can use your data as a means of control that you need to be concerned about. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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