| French Economy in Trouble on 19:08 - Oct 19 with 1284 views | SullutaCreturned |
| French Economy in Trouble on 10:02 - Oct 19 by union_jack |
Paradoxically, rejoining the EU, the exiting of which the SNP and PC have said was instrumental in their drive for independence, will give them another angle. We’re back in the EU so we may as well be an independent state within it and benefit from more wealthier countries contributions (typical of both those parties).
As for the riots, these are going on all over Europe now. Italy and Albania are seeing unrest but I don’t think the cause if the riots are the same. The French riots seem to be dominated by lefty extremists with Free Palestine agendas and immigrants whereas Tirana riots are more about domestic issues. We are going to see a lot of rioting just for the sake of it I think. |
From what I've read the riots in Italy have been partly about Gaza/Palestine but also because of the cost of living.
My wife isn't happy because myself and our 18 year old son are off to Rome on NOvember 7th to watch Roma v Sassuolo.
It is absurd that despite the evidence there is still a clamour to rejoin. the EU. There has been a lot of unrest across the membership, members closing borders against the rules, financial issues, riots (France also had the "Gilet Jaunes" a while back. Germany has had immigration protests too.
Across the EU there is a political concensus about the way forward that seems at odds with the growing public sentiment. Maybe the EU will collapse.
The UK economy surprisingly grew in August, only by 0.1% but the experts predicted a contraction didn't they?
Taking a look around, centrists are few and far between. We have moved further apart, I'll call it further ;left and further right if not "far" in both cases, apart from maybe Reform who are further right again than the Tories. Honestly, people don't like the prediction by some experts that we are heading for a war but it does seem to be on the horizon. Trump openly siding with Putin again and his MAGA followers seeming to be happy with that ( WT absolute F is that about?) Putin had a wet dream about Trump giving him support and it came true and now riots across Europe. |  | |  |
| French Economy in Trouble on 21:54 - Oct 19 with 1214 views | JJBomber |
If it defaults, it can apply to the EU for the 700 billion euros it needs. What could possibly go wrong??? | | | |
| French Economy in Trouble on 23:02 - Oct 19 with 1187 views | AnotherJohn |
| French Economy in Trouble on 21:54 - Oct 19 by JJBomber |
If it defaults, it can apply to the EU for the 700 billion euros it needs. What could possibly go wrong??? |
Interesting to reflect on who would pay! Probab;ly there would be an IMF loan and the debt would be shared out, presumablly not equally. The 10 net contributors in 2023 were:
Germany (€19.8bn)
France (€9.3bn)
The Netherlands (€6.3bn)
Italy (€6bn)
Sweden (€1.6bn)
Spain (€12.1bn)
Austria (€1.3bn)
Ireland (€1.3bn)
Denmark (€1.2bn)
Finland (€0.8bn)
Some of those - like France - contribute but have a growing national debt. The other 17 are beneficiaries. Germany is on the hook for the biggest contribution, but has been in recession. No wonder Merz is so keen for the UK to rejoin.  | | | |
| French Economy in Trouble on 23:03 - Oct 19 with 1186 views | Boundy |
| French Economy in Trouble on 19:08 - Oct 19 by SullutaCreturned |
From what I've read the riots in Italy have been partly about Gaza/Palestine but also because of the cost of living.
My wife isn't happy because myself and our 18 year old son are off to Rome on NOvember 7th to watch Roma v Sassuolo.
It is absurd that despite the evidence there is still a clamour to rejoin. the EU. There has been a lot of unrest across the membership, members closing borders against the rules, financial issues, riots (France also had the "Gilet Jaunes" a while back. Germany has had immigration protests too.
Across the EU there is a political concensus about the way forward that seems at odds with the growing public sentiment. Maybe the EU will collapse.
The UK economy surprisingly grew in August, only by 0.1% but the experts predicted a contraction didn't they?
Taking a look around, centrists are few and far between. We have moved further apart, I'll call it further ;left and further right if not "far" in both cases, apart from maybe Reform who are further right again than the Tories. Honestly, people don't like the prediction by some experts that we are heading for a war but it does seem to be on the horizon. Trump openly siding with Putin again and his MAGA followers seeming to be happy with that ( WT absolute F is that about?) Putin had a wet dream about Trump giving him support and it came true and now riots across Europe. |
Russia and the US have similar aspirations so it makes sense that Trump will err towards the soviets.Europe hasn’t and continues not to appreciate what the yanks have contributed to it’s security so why wouldn’t Trump be disdainful of us | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| French Economy in Trouble on 10:54 - Oct 20 with 1036 views | JJBomber |
| French Economy in Trouble on 23:02 - Oct 19 by AnotherJohn |
Interesting to reflect on who would pay! Probab;ly there would be an IMF loan and the debt would be shared out, presumablly not equally. The 10 net contributors in 2023 were:
Germany (€19.8bn)
France (€9.3bn)
The Netherlands (€6.3bn)
Italy (€6bn)
Sweden (€1.6bn)
Spain (€12.1bn)
Austria (€1.3bn)
Ireland (€1.3bn)
Denmark (€1.2bn)
Finland (€0.8bn)
Some of those - like France - contribute but have a growing national debt. The other 17 are beneficiaries. Germany is on the hook for the biggest contribution, but has been in recession. No wonder Merz is so keen for the UK to rejoin. |
All countries in the EU have joint and several liability for all the loans. The UK is still liable for loans taken out pre January 2020 and not repaid yet. | | | |
| French Economy in Trouble on 12:47 - Oct 20 with 982 views | AnotherJohn |
| French Economy in Trouble on 10:54 - Oct 20 by JJBomber |
All countries in the EU have joint and several liability for all the loans. The UK is still liable for loans taken out pre January 2020 and not repaid yet. |
It is correct that the UK still has certain liabilities under the EU Withdrawal Agreement, but I'm not sure that what would happen following a French default is as clearcut as EU members being held jointly and severally liable to repay any IMF loan.
At face value, a key EU treaty (TFEU Article 125) prohibits member states from sharing another country's debt. However, it seems that there are precedents when a semantic distinction was drawn so that EU countries were not deemed liable for repaying the original loan as such, but agreed to be liable for a share of any eventual loss. Having done a quick check, there seem to be 3 possible scenarios: (a) the defaulting country remains liable for debt repayment (b) the EU agrees to guarantee repament of losses if the defaulting country fails to repay the debt, with each member state's liability capped at an agreed amount, and (c) The IMF retains its claim against the borrower, but EU countries agree to finance some or all of the unrecovered amount through a common fund. As far as I can see, there is no set rule for the apportionment of liabilities between member states and this is determined on a case by case basis, as for example happened in EU schemes that involved borrowing such as SURE, ESM and NextGenerationEU. SURE provided loans to 19 member states to fund employment support during the COVID pandemic, and all 27 members shared liability for the finance, apportioned according to size of GNI. Probably liability arising from any future crisis would be shared according to GNI or an alternative measure of the size of each economy.
This is probably too boring for most, but the message is that a big French default would almost certainly have other member states reaching into their pockets, even if they do not technically share liability for an IMF loan.
Thankfully, the UK wasn't roped into any of the big schemes.
AI says: The UK continues to have potential exposure to certain financial operations approved before its withdrawal. Article 143 of the Withdrawal Agreement covers specified contingent liabilities associated with financial-assistance loans, the European Fund for Strategic Investments (EFSI), the European Fund for Sustainable Development (EFSD) and the European Investment Bank's external lending mandate. | | | |
| French Economy in Trouble on 13:48 - Oct 20 with 947 views | AnotherJohn |
"Liberal" French shop owner pleads with Muslim rioters not to trash her shop - I'm on your side! Chickens coming home to roost?
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| French Economy in Trouble on 14:51 - Oct 20 with 920 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
I see the left wing press have opinion pieces outlining why we should have cost of living demonstrations in the UK.
Coming to a town near you? |  |
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| French Economy in Trouble on 18:06 - Oct 20 with 863 views | SullutaCreturned |
| French Economy in Trouble on 23:03 - Oct 19 by Boundy |
Russia and the US have similar aspirations so it makes sense that Trump will err towards the soviets.Europe hasn’t and continues not to appreciate what the yanks have contributed to it’s security so why wouldn’t Trump be disdainful of us |
I've been saying for ages that with Trump in charge weshould ditch the USA from NATO and Europe should re-arm and stand alone, it may mean scrapping NATO and having a Pan European defence organisation. Even then I'd invite Canada in.
What the USA has contributed to Europes defence has become irrelevant with Trump na dhis warmongering. he is a large part of the cause of our rising prices, the riots across Europe trace back to Trumps stupidity.. All he's been doing is chasing money, enriching himself and his family and friends. It's criminal. | | | |
| French Economy in Trouble on 21:07 - Oct 20 with 815 views | JJBomber |
| French Economy in Trouble on 14:51 - Oct 20 by JACKMANANDBOY |
I see the left wing press have opinion pieces outlining why we should have cost of living demonstrations in the UK.
Coming to a town near you? |
Nov 20th apparently. Looting just in time for Christmas presents. Who'd have thought that! | | | |
| French Economy in Trouble on 01:41 - Oct 21 with 758 views | Robbie |
Some online and vague filming showing a protestor draped in a Palestine flag over the shoulder thought it was a bit of a laugh to raid any legitimate business in Paris .
Nothing to do with the pupils and academics in France of course who just want education .
I really despair for the direction France is going now , and it will spill over to The UK .
Allegedy Macron was dancing at a Celine Dione Friday night concert whist Paris was on the eve of a major threat to security . | | | |
| French Economy in Trouble on 07:50 - Oct 23 with 517 views | AnotherJohn |
Green pondlife from Hackney wading in.
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| French Economy in Trouble on 08:49 - Oct 23 with 484 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| French Economy in Trouble on 07:50 - Oct 23 by AnotherJohn |
Green pondlife from Hackney wading in.
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Ah the Greens. | |
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| French Economy in Trouble on 10:06 - Oct 23 with 463 views | Dr_Winston |
These people have absolutely no idea what austerity actually is. Look back at the privations people had to live with post WW2 where rationing still existed until the early 50's and then try to claim that not increasing NHS spending as much as usual is remotely similar. We've not had austerity in the UK in most people's lifetimes.
Certainly it's not a thing in France either where state spending is well over 50% of GDP.
Bottom line is that many Western Nations have been spending money that they don't have for far too long, restricted economic growth with taxation and regulation, and tried to plug the gaps with mass immigration, which has neither driven actual economic growth as far too many of them are a net drain, and also pissed off the native population as they think, with quite a bit of justification, that they're being sidelined in their own home.
It's probably not much of a coincidence that a lot of this nonsense started after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Those on the left have shifted to other means to achieve their aims. [Post edited 23 Oct 10:07]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| French Economy in Trouble on 14:49 - Oct 24 with 220 views | blackswan |
| French Economy in Trouble on 07:50 - Oct 23 by AnotherJohn |
Green pondlife from Hackney wading in.
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Absolutely fecking clueless | | | |
| French Economy in Trouble on 17:08 - Oct 24 with 190 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
I heard a commentary on the radio about the possibility of a bailout from the European Central Bank which is of course funded by the EU countries.
Their deficit is growing and now running at 6 percent a year. | |
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