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One of the posters made a statement on here recently that he thought Orwell was "overrated." Then yesterday I was in a cafe waiting for the Mrs to finish her shopping when a couple of young girls asked if they could share the table. They asked what I was reading by way of polite conversation. I showed them the cover of Seeing things as they are, a collection of Orwell's journalistic output and they shrugged to each other, "sorry, never heard of him." I'd guess they were in the their early 20s. I was a bit taken aback.
That set me wondering just how much has his star dimmed? I'm aware that plenty of the posters on here are probably better-read than the average, how do you view him?
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
It was me who said he was overrated -but I was merely stirring. 1984 and Animal Farm are absolute must reads for everyone and Road to Wigan Pier is way ahead of its time in describing modern malaise. I actually think some of his essays are less exciting though, and he does get hailed as a master of the form. I think that's what I meant by overrated. I understand your despair at modern ignorance though.
On a recent episode of Pointless 80% of those questioned recognised a picture of Paul Daniels and something like 10% knew that Iago was a character in Othello.
A formative influence in my teenage years, I read a lot of his stuff. Most people will be familiar with Animal Farm and 1984, but I was more influenced by his work concerning ordinary working class life in the UK - 'The Road to Wigan Pier' and 'Down and Out in Paris and London' - and his experience of the Spanish Civil War in 'Homage to Catalonia'.
Hardly surprising that two young girls hadn't heard of him, I doubt they'd heard of William Shakespeare or Charles Dickens, never mind Orwell. I think he can rest easy, his legacy is safe as far as old lefties like me are concerned.
A formative influence in my teenage years, I read a lot of his stuff. Most people will be familiar with Animal Farm and 1984, but I was more influenced by his work concerning ordinary working class life in the UK - 'The Road to Wigan Pier' and 'Down and Out in Paris and London' - and his experience of the Spanish Civil War in 'Homage to Catalonia'.
Hardly surprising that two young girls hadn't heard of him, I doubt they'd heard of William Shakespeare or Charles Dickens, never mind Orwell. I think he can rest easy, his legacy is safe as far as old lefties like me are concerned.
[Post edited 16 Sep 2016 11:59]
Oops.I should have mentioned Down and Out in Paris and London, Great moment in there when Orwell is trudging down a street with a tramp and it's starting to rain. The writer suggests they go into a library to shelter. "Oh,I couldn't go in there," his companion replies, "It'd make me sick. All those books."
It was me who said he was overrated -but I was merely stirring. 1984 and Animal Farm are absolute must reads for everyone and Road to Wigan Pier is way ahead of its time in describing modern malaise. I actually think some of his essays are less exciting though, and he does get hailed as a master of the form. I think that's what I meant by overrated. I understand your despair at modern ignorance though.
On a recent episode of Pointless 80% of those questioned recognised a picture of Paul Daniels and something like 10% knew that Iago was a character in Othello.
Funnily enough, I preferred his essays. With four large volumes some are bound to be less exciting.
Not surprised at the ignorance - my wife's niece did an English degree at Reading and didn't know that The Great Gatsby was a book before it was a film.
It was me who said he was overrated -but I was merely stirring. 1984 and Animal Farm are absolute must reads for everyone and Road to Wigan Pier is way ahead of its time in describing modern malaise. I actually think some of his essays are less exciting though, and he does get hailed as a master of the form. I think that's what I meant by overrated. I understand your despair at modern ignorance though.
On a recent episode of Pointless 80% of those questioned recognised a picture of Paul Daniels and something like 10% knew that Iago was a character in Othello.
Yes, I remember it was you but I'm far too gallant to have named you.
The Road to Wigan Pier and Down and Out in London and Paris are perhaps not as celebrated as 1984 and Animal Farm but for me they are his two essential texts. It's entirely subjectve of course but I know what you mean about some of his essays, clever as they no doubt are the spark that makes much of his shorter journalistic output leap from the page isn't always there. He's at his best when he's angry, I think.
Your last observation doesn't surprise me in the least. With a dumbed-down education system atop an oafish media the results are what you'd call Kismet.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
Funnily enough, I preferred his essays. With four large volumes some are bound to be less exciting.
Not surprised at the ignorance - my wife's niece did an English degree at Reading and didn't know that The Great Gatsby was a book before it was a film.
FFS...
Oh! dear! She's probably got a stellar career ahead of her writing for The Star.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
Yes, I remember it was you but I'm far too gallant to have named you.
The Road to Wigan Pier and Down and Out in London and Paris are perhaps not as celebrated as 1984 and Animal Farm but for me they are his two essential texts. It's entirely subjectve of course but I know what you mean about some of his essays, clever as they no doubt are the spark that makes much of his shorter journalistic output leap from the page isn't always there. He's at his best when he's angry, I think.
Your last observation doesn't surprise me in the least. With a dumbed-down education system atop an oafish media the results are what you'd call Kismet.
I fought fiercely against the dumbing down of the education system (from inside the tent) and I feel I won a few minor skirmishes. Lost the war though. I once ordered a student who was training to become an English teacher out of the room and told her to quit the course forthwith. She'd said "I don't like poetry." She's probably out there dumbing people as I write.
I think it's just that very few people bother with books anymore. The whole culture has been changed by tv and Internet. Videos of YouTube sensation pewdiepie bullying small kids on call of duty have been viewed 13.6 billion times and made him a ridiculously rich man. That is what's classed as entertainment these days along with hourly updates on who the various kardashians are shagging or what gender they've decided to be today.
Who's got time to read a book when there's dead gorillas to post hundreds of millions of memes about on Twitter?
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Less to do with Orwell more down to the generally very poor standard of teaching in this country.
Have you ever stood in front of a class of 35 kids , most of whom come from parents dumber than soup, who sent them off to school after a nutritional breakfast of Kitcat, crisps and cola?
Funnily enough, I preferred his essays. With four large volumes some are bound to be less exciting.
Not surprised at the ignorance - my wife's niece did an English degree at Reading and didn't know that The Great Gatsby was a book before it was a film.
FFS...
Please at least tell us that she didn't think that Leonardo DiCaprio was the first film Gatsby!
Lohengrin - you should have told the girls it's where 'Room 101' comes from - they'll have seen the programme with Frank Skinner.
I had the same thing occur in a coffee shop when I was in Uni, I asked some guy what he was reading...he said "The 120 days of Sodom". I asked him what it is about, he said he would show me, and that is why I now walk with a pronounced limp, and am no longer welcome in Starbucks.
Culture has changed, and some of the literature used in the curriculum is so dry for younger generations that it puts them off reading out of school. Also, as mentioned, there are too many things competing for the person's attention, and it gets sidelined. I don't feel the standard of English teaching is worse at all, just there is a disengage with culture to what the curriculum presents.
In all seriousness I ve only lightly read some of his stuff so I m no expert.
But me and the missus did make a trip to the Play House theatre London recently,somewhere near the embankment, to see the stage play of 1984...Winston Smith and all that.
Very somber,atmospheric and in your face. Best part was it only cost £19.84 to get in!some promo they do for afternoon showings.
Highly recommended.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
I fought fiercely against the dumbing down of the education system (from inside the tent) and I feel I won a few minor skirmishes. Lost the war though. I once ordered a student who was training to become an English teacher out of the room and told her to quit the course forthwith. She'd said "I don't like poetry." She's probably out there dumbing people as I write.
We seem to be witnessing the demise of the inquisitive mind. This country we are from, south Wales in particular, was a bastion of the autodidact. For our grandparents' generation ignorance was a predicament to be overcome, not wallowed in.
You can't just blame schools, of course. The place a child really begins to learn is at home and all parents bear responsibility to that end. I lay no claim to be being the world's greatest father but I tried my best to set them off on the right foot. When my girls were infants we'd make a game of it. I'd give them a word a day Monday to Friday, they'd have to find what it meant, commit it to memory as best they could and then we'd have a quick quiz on the weekend. If they passed (even if they didn't as long as they tried) I'd take them to the pictures or Folly Farm, whatever they fancied. It stood them in good stead. The eldest is now on her way to becoming an Oncologist.
*That method drew some astonished gasps from the teachers too. I don't suppose it's ever nursery school child that would pepper "quotidian" or "mordant" into classroom conversations.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
We seem to be witnessing the demise of the inquisitive mind. This country we are from, south Wales in particular, was a bastion of the autodidact. For our grandparents' generation ignorance was a predicament to be overcome, not wallowed in.
You can't just blame schools, of course. The place a child really begins to learn is at home and all parents bear responsibility to that end. I lay no claim to be being the world's greatest father but I tried my best to set them off on the right foot. When my girls were infants we'd make a game of it. I'd give them a word a day Monday to Friday, they'd have to find what it meant, commit it to memory as best they could and then we'd have a quick quiz on the weekend. If they passed (even if they didn't as long as they tried) I'd take them to the pictures or Folly Farm, whatever they fancied. It stood them in good stead. The eldest is now on her way to becoming an Oncologist.
*That method drew some astonished gasps from the teachers too. I don't suppose it's ever nursery school child that would pepper "quotidian" or "mordant" into classroom conversations.
Every nursery aged child in west London could Loh - they all go for a latte in Le Pain Quotidien on a Saturday morning
Apologies - taking the p*** out of the yummy mummy circuit not out of you ...
Please at least tell us that she didn't think that Leonardo DiCaprio was the first film Gatsby!
Lohengrin - you should have told the girls it's where 'Room 101' comes from - they'll have seen the programme with Frank Skinner.
They were far from dull, Lisa. In fact they were studying for nursing qualifications. It's just that Orwell seemed to have passed them by. For all I know that may be true of their entire generation?
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
I had the same thing occur in a coffee shop when I was in Uni, I asked some guy what he was reading...he said "The 120 days of Sodom". I asked him what it is about, he said he would show me, and that is why I now walk with a pronounced limp, and am no longer welcome in Starbucks.
Culture has changed, and some of the literature used in the curriculum is so dry for younger generations that it puts them off reading out of school. Also, as mentioned, there are too many things competing for the person's attention, and it gets sidelined. I don't feel the standard of English teaching is worse at all, just there is a disengage with culture to what the curriculum presents.
Thank goodness he wasn't reading "Juliette"
Joe_bradshaw -I thought the cryochamber was the new name for Cardiff's stadium.
I was reading Enid Blyton's "Five Go to Billycock Hill" in a cafe ,some young ladies by way of polite conversation asked me what it was about.............my solicitor reckons he's done all he can for me and to expect a custodial.
We seem to be witnessing the demise of the inquisitive mind. This country we are from, south Wales in particular, was a bastion of the autodidact. For our grandparents' generation ignorance was a predicament to be overcome, not wallowed in.
You can't just blame schools, of course. The place a child really begins to learn is at home and all parents bear responsibility to that end. I lay no claim to be being the world's greatest father but I tried my best to set them off on the right foot. When my girls were infants we'd make a game of it. I'd give them a word a day Monday to Friday, they'd have to find what it meant, commit it to memory as best they could and then we'd have a quick quiz on the weekend. If they passed (even if they didn't as long as they tried) I'd take them to the pictures or Folly Farm, whatever they fancied. It stood them in good stead. The eldest is now on her way to becoming an Oncologist.
*That method drew some astonished gasps from the teachers too. I don't suppose it's ever nursery school child that would pepper "quotidian" or "mordant" into classroom conversations.
There is a zealous anti-intellectualism which has pervaded society for a long time now. Unfortunately, I think it is almost a deliberate strategy from the "top" as the proles were becoming far to informed and critical though the early C20th.
Joe_bradshaw -I thought the cryochamber was the new name for Cardiff's stadium.
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