| Parole 10:15 - Nov 14 with 2023 views | onehunglow |
A subject worthy of debate ?
What ya think |  |
| |  |
| Parole on 10:35 - Nov 14 with 1227 views | controversial_jack |
Has to be an incentive for all but the worse criminals to aim for | | | |
| Parole on 10:38 - Nov 14 with 1221 views | onehunglow |
Decent start | |
| |
| Parole on 11:45 - Nov 14 with 1196 views | Sandanista |
| Parole on 10:35 - Nov 14 by controversial_jack |
Has to be an incentive for all but the worse criminals to aim for |
Fair point. If it can lead to rehabilitation. There are some crimes which should be life -murder of children, murder with rape/sexual assault, multiple murders, serial rapists. | | | |
| Parole on 12:10 - Nov 14 with 1188 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 11:45 - Nov 14 by Sandanista |
Fair point. If it can lead to rehabilitation. There are some crimes which should be life -murder of children, murder with rape/sexual assault, multiple murders, serial rapists. |
You have touched on the key word IF.
If it could be certain that a violent rapist,murderer or recidivistic paedophile wouldn’t reoffend then it has merit releasing earlier than given sentence .
Problem is that one cannot be certain IF it is safe .
No parole board can be certain
No victim should become such IF the Parole goes wrong .
No murderer should be released early | |
| |
| Parole on 12:43 - Nov 14 with 1184 views | Boundy |
| Parole on 12:10 - Nov 14 by onehunglow |
You have touched on the key word IF.
If it could be certain that a violent rapist,murderer or recidivistic paedophile wouldn’t reoffend then it has merit releasing earlier than given sentence .
Problem is that one cannot be certain IF it is safe .
No parole board can be certain
No victim should become such IF the Parole goes wrong .
No murderer should be released early |
For moments of madness or a mistake which lead to a conviction then yes there should should definitely be some sort of "carrot" to aim for . But for thoses who decide the life of crime is the path they wish to take , then no ,its all about choices . Nothing worse than reading as we did this week for example of the assault in Oxford Street where one of the defendants was said to have experienced a "troubled childhood", I know lots of adults who had similar troubled childhoods but that didn't lead to assaulting an innocent, so why should that be mitigating reasons for attacking someone with a machete i really don't know | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
| |
| Parole on 16:21 - Nov 14 with 1149 views | Scotia |
| Parole on 10:35 - Nov 14 by controversial_jack |
Has to be an incentive for all but the worse criminals to aim for |
I agree but perhaps that incentive could be being released on the date the sentence finishes and not being extened for bad behaviour? | | | |
| Parole on 17:04 - Nov 14 with 1138 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 12:10 - Nov 14 by onehunglow |
You have touched on the key word IF.
If it could be certain that a violent rapist,murderer or recidivistic paedophile wouldn’t reoffend then it has merit releasing earlier than given sentence .
Problem is that one cannot be certain IF it is safe .
No parole board can be certain
No victim should become such IF the Parole goes wrong .
No murderer should be released early |
'NO murderer should be released early. ?'
Many years ago, my firm, when I was a solicitor, represented this man who confronted a burglar who broke into his house. He found him in his daughter's bedroom, when she was screaming and he was touching her up. He flipped, threw him down the stairs and kicked him in the head killing him, We tried to argue manslaughter, provocation/diminished responsibility, but the jury disagreed and convicted on murder.
Never been in trouble before or again. Should he be released early ?
Young lad, gets into a fight outside a club, one punch, other lad falls over, cracks his head and dies. Again should be manslaughter, but also possibly murder. Rest of his life in prison ?
Woman, long term victim of domestic violence, stabs her abuser to death with a knife...Never released ?
Easy to make sweeping assertions.
I have represented 100s of people in parole hearings, a great many of whom murdered. People who were never in trouble before, been model prisoners, and will never trouble the court again. What do you say about those people ?
They're not all the people that are in the Daily Mail.
Have you ever sat through a parole hearing and heard what goes into making these decisions ? If you haven't how can you comment on whether or not they are fair ?
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Parole on 17:12 - Nov 14 with 1111 views | Dr_Winston |
I'm not sure about the guy but any member of the jury who'd find him guilty of anything in those circumstances needs to be watched. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Parole on 17:15 - Nov 14 with 1118 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 17:12 - Nov 14 by Dr_Winston |
I'm not sure about the guy but any member of the jury who'd find him guilty of anything in those circumstances needs to be watched. |
It's a clear manslaughter, due to kick when he was on the floor at the end, but you're right, if I was on the jury, not a chance would I convict | | | |
| Parole on 17:26 - Nov 14 with 1099 views | Dr_Winston |
| Parole on 17:15 - Nov 14 by Sirjohnalot |
It's a clear manslaughter, due to kick when he was on the floor at the end, but you're right, if I was on the jury, not a chance would I convict |
I won't/can't argue with you on either point.
I don't like the idea of someone being convicted of anything for killing an intruder in their own home though. Under almost any circumstances. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Parole on 17:30 - Nov 14 with 1100 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 17:26 - Nov 14 by Dr_Winston |
I won't/can't argue with you on either point.
I don't like the idea of someone being convicted of anything for killing an intruder in their own home though. Under almost any circumstances. |
Law has changed recently, this is what it is now : -
'where the case is one involving a householder the degree of force used by the householder is not to be regarded as having been reasonable in the circumstances as the householder believed them to be if it was 'grossly disproportionate. ';
The provision must be read in conjunction with the other elements of section 76 of the 2008 Act. The level of force used must still be reasonable in the circumstances as the householder believed them to be (section 76(3)).
In deciding whether the force might be regarded as 'disproportionate' or 'grossly disproportionate the court will need to consider the individual facts of each case, including the personal circumstances of the householder and the threat (real or perceived) posed by the offender. | | | |
| Parole on 17:42 - Nov 14 with 1084 views | Dr_Winston |
"The level of force used must still be reasonable in the circumstances as the householder believed them to be"
Is that a new bit? Based on that all your guy had to say was he was still in fear of his life when he launched that final kick and he probably should have got off.
Having seen many, many fights over the years inside pubs and often through the office window, it would appear to be awfully difficult to put down for the count someone ripped to the gills on chemicals. I wouldn't blame anyone for hitting, punching, kicking or stabbing any intruder until they were quite sure that they wouldn't be getting back up again. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Parole on 18:03 - Nov 14 with 1086 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 17:42 - Nov 14 by Dr_Winston |
"The level of force used must still be reasonable in the circumstances as the householder believed them to be"
Is that a new bit? Based on that all your guy had to say was he was still in fear of his life when he launched that final kick and he probably should have got off.
Having seen many, many fights over the years inside pubs and often through the office window, it would appear to be awfully difficult to put down for the count someone ripped to the gills on chemicals. I wouldn't blame anyone for hitting, punching, kicking or stabbing any intruder until they were quite sure that they wouldn't be getting back up again. |
It now has to be ‘grossly disproportionate’ so my chap, back in the day probably wouldn’t have been convicted.
Original point was he’s now been paroled. OHL’s point was no murderer should ever be released, just wanted to raise the possibility of it not always being as straightforward forward as that
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Parole on 18:26 - Nov 14 with 1066 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 17:04 - Nov 14 by Sirjohnalot |
'NO murderer should be released early. ?'
Many years ago, my firm, when I was a solicitor, represented this man who confronted a burglar who broke into his house. He found him in his daughter's bedroom, when she was screaming and he was touching her up. He flipped, threw him down the stairs and kicked him in the head killing him, We tried to argue manslaughter, provocation/diminished responsibility, but the jury disagreed and convicted on murder.
Never been in trouble before or again. Should he be released early ?
Young lad, gets into a fight outside a club, one punch, other lad falls over, cracks his head and dies. Again should be manslaughter, but also possibly murder. Rest of his life in prison ?
Woman, long term victim of domestic violence, stabs her abuser to death with a knife...Never released ?
Easy to make sweeping assertions.
I have represented 100s of people in parole hearings, a great many of whom murdered. People who were never in trouble before, been model prisoners, and will never trouble the court again. What do you say about those people ?
They're not all the people that are in the Daily Mail.
Have you ever sat through a parole hearing and heard what goes into making these decisions ? If you haven't how can you comment on whether or not they are fair ?
This post has been edited by an administrator |
With respect,you over elaborate .
I trust my opinion is one you understand if not respect
I ll say it more clearly
It is morally reprehensible that the likes of Peter Tobin draws breath whilst the innocent victims do not .
If you had a daughter,raped,butchered and thrown into a pit,you would think differently .
Nobody s daughter should be at risk at early release of anyone .
This is a moment for you to think outside the Legal World you earn your living at.
People want to feel safe . They are not.
I personally know barristers who pleaded mitigation/leniency for a child killer.
What a job . You really are special . | |
| |
| Parole on 18:34 - Nov 14 with 1059 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 18:26 - Nov 14 by onehunglow |
With respect,you over elaborate .
I trust my opinion is one you understand if not respect
I ll say it more clearly
It is morally reprehensible that the likes of Peter Tobin draws breath whilst the innocent victims do not .
If you had a daughter,raped,butchered and thrown into a pit,you would think differently .
Nobody s daughter should be at risk at early release of anyone .
This is a moment for you to think outside the Legal World you earn your living at.
People want to feel safe . They are not.
I personally know barristers who pleaded mitigation/leniency for a child killer.
What a job . You really are special . |
It was a legal point, I gave a legal answer.
You need to lay off my profession, ‘you really are special’ ! Is there a need for that ?
Time and time again you rip into barristers who defend without ever giving an alternative to what other system you’d put in its place. For the last time, equality of arms means everyone is represented.
You clearly do not respect me, so I think I’ll end it there. | | | |
| Parole on 18:37 - Nov 14 with 1058 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 18:34 - Nov 14 by Sirjohnalot |
It was a legal point, I gave a legal answer.
You need to lay off my profession, ‘you really are special’ ! Is there a need for that ?
Time and time again you rip into barristers who defend without ever giving an alternative to what other system you’d put in its place. For the last time, equality of arms means everyone is represented.
You clearly do not respect me, so I think I’ll end it there. |
Fair enough .
You clearly do not respect me either ,so we re quits
Thanks | |
| |
| Parole on 18:41 - Nov 14 with 1056 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 18:37 - Nov 14 by onehunglow |
Fair enough .
You clearly do not respect me either ,so we re quits
Thanks |
I’ve never derided you, called your profession into dispute, and always treated you with respect with any question posed or raised. If you find an example otherwise, I’d be happy to apologise | | | |
| Parole on 20:14 - Nov 14 with 1024 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 18:41 - Nov 14 by Sirjohnalot |
I’ve never derided you, called your profession into dispute, and always treated you with respect with any question posed or raised. If you find an example otherwise, I’d be happy to apologise |
You have and I appreciate that but ,with respect, you have totally misconstrued that which I post.
I don’t have a profession.
I’ve had several careers and did what I had to do. I don’t have that much time for many of them.
It was a case of having to.
Now, remember this well….I have never ever derided you personally and frankly am rather miffed at the suggestion .
I see much anti Police stuff and have faced much close up but when most slag off a police officer they do so at the job or uniform NOT the individual .
You ARE special as you do a job few others could do. THAT is/ was my point | |
| |
| Parole on 20:27 - Nov 14 with 1003 views | Dr_Winston |
| Parole on 18:34 - Nov 14 by Sirjohnalot |
It was a legal point, I gave a legal answer.
You need to lay off my profession, ‘you really are special’ ! Is there a need for that ?
Time and time again you rip into barristers who defend without ever giving an alternative to what other system you’d put in its place. For the last time, equality of arms means everyone is represented.
You clearly do not respect me, so I think I’ll end it there. |
It's frontier justice/lynch mob mentality. These people never think that the mob might come for them one day.
Everyone is entitled to a fair trial and to legal representation who will do the best for them. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Parole on 20:43 - Nov 14 with 991 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 20:27 - Nov 14 by Dr_Winston |
It's frontier justice/lynch mob mentality. These people never think that the mob might come for them one day.
Everyone is entitled to a fair trial and to legal representation who will do the best for them. |
I agree
I’ve a said many times.
People accused of horrible things may not have done it.
Without defence barristers, complainants will be cross examined by the defendants.
Defence barristers advise people on the evidence and quite often to plead guilty.
I’ve represented people, on the face of it, seem guilty, but have uncovered lying prosecution witnesses, including police officers.
Mitigation is simply putting forward background of the defendant, which the judge may or may not listen to.
I’ve also prosecuted cases. My job is to review the file and to disclose to the defence anything which undermines the prosecution case. So often, on a strong case, I’ve encountered evidence which obliterates our case. Have to disclose which, with a defence barrister, rightly leads to the case failing.
Without proper representation, injustice happens. | | | |
| Parole on 20:43 - Nov 14 with 991 views | CountyJim |
| Parole on 20:14 - Nov 14 by onehunglow |
You have and I appreciate that but ,with respect, you have totally misconstrued that which I post.
I don’t have a profession.
I’ve had several careers and did what I had to do. I don’t have that much time for many of them.
It was a case of having to.
Now, remember this well….I have never ever derided you personally and frankly am rather miffed at the suggestion .
I see much anti Police stuff and have faced much close up but when most slag off a police officer they do so at the job or uniform NOT the individual .
You ARE special as you do a job few others could do. THAT is/ was my point |
You could start an argument in an empty room fair play |  | | |
| Parole on 21:06 - Nov 14 with 974 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 20:43 - Nov 14 by CountyJim |
You could start an argument in an empty room fair play |
Life is all about argument Jim.
Either we have views and express them or we shrivel up as cowards .
Much what you post is contentious and that applies to many of us .
Hell,we have posters doubting the magnificence of Ukraine and it’s brave people,going through a living hell thanks to the feral mother Russia state .
The day we all agree then we are screwed
I post honest ,I post from the heart . | |
| |
| Parole on 08:17 - Nov 15 with 922 views | controversial_jack |
| Parole on 20:43 - Nov 14 by CountyJim |
You could start an argument in an empty room fair play |
And lose! | | | |
| Parole on 08:48 - Nov 15 with 915 views | onehunglow |
Almost made me smile
Now then, back to the Topic. | |
| |
| Parole on 18:11 - Nov 16 with 868 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Parole on 16:21 - Nov 14 by Scotia |
I agree but perhaps that incentive could be being released on the date the sentence finishes and not being extened for bad behaviour? |
Most criminals are not released on the date the sentence finishes. Most only serve 50% of their sentence some only a third. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
