| The Welsh constitional commission on 19:46 - Mar 18 with 3156 views | union_jack |
I take it there won’t be a discussion on abolishing the bloody lot of them and going back to the good old days? |  |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 19:53 - Mar 18 with 3158 views | Whiterockin |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 19:46 - Mar 18 by union_jack |
I take it there won’t be a discussion on abolishing the bloody lot of them and going back to the good old days? |
Not a chance.
Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind. |  | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 20:11 - Mar 18 with 3138 views | union_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 19:53 - Mar 18 by Whiterockin |
Not a chance.
Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind. |
But they consider themselves independent! Have I missed something?😠| |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 20:23 - Mar 18 with 3140 views | felixstowe_jack |
Sounds like another talking shop. Wonder how much all the experts are getting paid to sit on this commission and how much the Senedd will waste on it. |  |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 20:38 - Mar 18 with 3130 views | Scotia |
Co chaired by a man who believes there is a God and has dedicated his life to worshipping it.
Pointless and out of touch with 95% of the population. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 08:03 - Mar 19 with 3057 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 19:46 - Mar 18 by union_jack |
I take it there won’t be a discussion on abolishing the bloody lot of them and going back to the good old days? |
Oh they'll discuss everything besides another vote on devolution. They will never willingly give us a sniff of stopping their gravy train.
Just like those useless c-wombles in Westminster, it's all about getting even more gravy.
We don't need this commission and the very large expense that goes with it. We know what we need and no matter what this commission says, it doesn't matter, its a complete waste. They can come out with a report that 100% of Welsh residents agree with but Westminster won't allow the changes anyway, the Senedd is powerless in that respect. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:55 - Mar 19 with 3019 views | Luther27 |
Thinking if we abolished the commission it would reduce our carbon emissions by quite a bit. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 12:00 - Mar 19 with 3000 views | union_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:55 - Mar 19 by Luther27 |
Thinking if we abolished the commission it would reduce our carbon emissions by quite a bit. |
Yes, but they’d need to set up another commission to determine that😠| |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 12:35 - Mar 19 with 2991 views | Luther27 |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 12:00 - Mar 19 by union_jack |
Yes, but they’d need to set up another commission to determine that😠|
Like that 😂 | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:27 - Mar 20 with 2884 views | johnlangy |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 08:03 - Mar 19 by SullutaCreturned |
Oh they'll discuss everything besides another vote on devolution. They will never willingly give us a sniff of stopping their gravy train.
Just like those useless c-wombles in Westminster, it's all about getting even more gravy.
We don't need this commission and the very large expense that goes with it. We know what we need and no matter what this commission says, it doesn't matter, its a complete waste. They can come out with a report that 100% of Welsh residents agree with but Westminster won't allow the changes anyway, the Senedd is powerless in that respect. |
Why on earth would they discuss another vote on devolution ? Wanting it is one thing, as you and a few others have said, but expecting it makes no sense.
The last referendum on extra powers for the Senedd in 2011 was effectively an endorsement of keeping the Senedd and retaining devolution. And the pro vote was 2 to 1.
Simple democracy whatever anyone may think of how well the Senedd are doing their job. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 14:10 - Mar 20 with 2850 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:27 - Mar 20 by johnlangy |
Why on earth would they discuss another vote on devolution ? Wanting it is one thing, as you and a few others have said, but expecting it makes no sense.
The last referendum on extra powers for the Senedd in 2011 was effectively an endorsement of keeping the Senedd and retaining devolution. And the pro vote was 2 to 1.
Simple democracy whatever anyone may think of how well the Senedd are doing their job. |
The 2011 referendum was not effectively an endorsement on keeping the Welsh Assembly The only question on the ballot paper was to give more powerto the Senedd. No where was it asked if Welsh voters wished to abolish the Welsh Assembly.
A turn out of 36% with 2:1 in favour of more powers means only 24% of Welsh voters were in favour of giving the Welsh Assembly more powers.
I have used the term Welsh Assembly as that is what it was called in 2011. | |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:02 - Mar 20 with 2827 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:27 - Mar 20 by johnlangy |
Why on earth would they discuss another vote on devolution ? Wanting it is one thing, as you and a few others have said, but expecting it makes no sense.
The last referendum on extra powers for the Senedd in 2011 was effectively an endorsement of keeping the Senedd and retaining devolution. And the pro vote was 2 to 1.
Simple democracy whatever anyone may think of how well the Senedd are doing their job. |
We have never been asked if we wnted a vote on devolution. If this commission is to look at all outcomes, including indepepndence then it should look at abolishing devolution too.
Your post simply highlights that what I said is true, people who want Welsh independence will never willingly allow a vote on reversing devolution. In a real democracy all options should be available.
You call it simple democracy but when people moan about brexit they nearly always say the vote was so tight we should have another one, that is the problem with percentages. The percentage shows Wales was massively in favour of more powers but the truth is less than a quarter of the electorate voted for that. If less than a quarter of the electorate had voted for brexit and it went ahead there would have been riots. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:27 - Mar 20 with 2822 views | pencoedjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 16:02 - Mar 20 by SullutaCreturned |
We have never been asked if we wnted a vote on devolution. If this commission is to look at all outcomes, including indepepndence then it should look at abolishing devolution too.
Your post simply highlights that what I said is true, people who want Welsh independence will never willingly allow a vote on reversing devolution. In a real democracy all options should be available.
You call it simple democracy but when people moan about brexit they nearly always say the vote was so tight we should have another one, that is the problem with percentages. The percentage shows Wales was massively in favour of more powers but the truth is less than a quarter of the electorate voted for that. If less than a quarter of the electorate had voted for brexit and it went ahead there would have been riots. |
Indeed, additionally having endured many years of the Senedd taking Wales backwards I believe its a fair assumption that a high % would like a vote on it.
Keep Wales going backwards & downtrodden & (some of those) those who vote Labour will continue to do so. |  | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 20:06 - Mar 20 with 2771 views | Scotia |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 14:10 - Mar 20 by felixstowe_jack |
The 2011 referendum was not effectively an endorsement on keeping the Welsh Assembly The only question on the ballot paper was to give more powerto the Senedd. No where was it asked if Welsh voters wished to abolish the Welsh Assembly.
A turn out of 36% with 2:1 in favour of more powers means only 24% of Welsh voters were in favour of giving the Welsh Assembly more powers.
I have used the term Welsh Assembly as that is what it was called in 2011. |
Which is why I believe returning a ballot at an election or referendum should be compulsory in a similar way to completing the census.
Only about 50% bothered to turn out for the devolution referendum, so we're only certain that just over 25% of the population wanted devolution at all.
I voted no at both of the referendums, I think I would again. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 03:52 - Mar 21 with 2719 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 14:10 - Mar 20 by felixstowe_jack |
The 2011 referendum was not effectively an endorsement on keeping the Welsh Assembly The only question on the ballot paper was to give more powerto the Senedd. No where was it asked if Welsh voters wished to abolish the Welsh Assembly.
A turn out of 36% with 2:1 in favour of more powers means only 24% of Welsh voters were in favour of giving the Welsh Assembly more powers.
I have used the term Welsh Assembly as that is what it was called in 2011. |
A party called Abolish the Welsh Assembly stood in the 2021 Senedd elections.
Your point if view specifically tested.
It got 1.63% of the constituency votes, and 3.73 of the regional votes.
It got zero seats as a result.
Nobody in Wales shares your view. Fact.
You are yesterdays man. |  |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 06:36 - Mar 21 with 2711 views | Scotia |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 03:52 - Mar 21 by Kilkennyjack |
A party called Abolish the Welsh Assembly stood in the 2021 Senedd elections.
Your point if view specifically tested.
It got 1.63% of the constituency votes, and 3.73 of the regional votes.
It got zero seats as a result.
Nobody in Wales shares your view. Fact.
You are yesterdays man. |
I considered voting for them but when I scratched the surface they were a bunch of very right wing loons and completely unelectable.
I was left with the disaster that is Welsh Labour, the Tories or a party that supported independence.
You've claimed before that Wales won't vote Tory but what choice do we have? Most people weren't bothered about devolution when it was forced upon us, we now have no choice.
We're stuck with Labour or the route to an indy referendum. Neither of which the people of Wales really want. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:07 - Mar 21 with 2687 views | johnlangy |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 06:36 - Mar 21 by Scotia |
I considered voting for them but when I scratched the surface they were a bunch of very right wing loons and completely unelectable.
I was left with the disaster that is Welsh Labour, the Tories or a party that supported independence.
You've claimed before that Wales won't vote Tory but what choice do we have? Most people weren't bothered about devolution when it was forced upon us, we now have no choice.
We're stuck with Labour or the route to an indy referendum. Neither of which the people of Wales really want. |
Why on earth do you claim that devolution was forced on us ? We had a democratic vote. The majority, however small that was, voted yes.
It was not forced on us. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:14 - Mar 21 with 2686 views | johnlangy |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 14:10 - Mar 20 by felixstowe_jack |
The 2011 referendum was not effectively an endorsement on keeping the Welsh Assembly The only question on the ballot paper was to give more powerto the Senedd. No where was it asked if Welsh voters wished to abolish the Welsh Assembly.
A turn out of 36% with 2:1 in favour of more powers means only 24% of Welsh voters were in favour of giving the Welsh Assembly more powers.
I have used the term Welsh Assembly as that is what it was called in 2011. |
You ask why there wasn't a second question on the ballot paper about abolishing the Assembly. If there are so many that want to vote for abolish, as you and others are suggesting, they would also want to limit the powers that the Assembly had if that was the only question.
The fact that they didn't even make the effort to go to the polling station and vote no says it all. The numbers are not there. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:35 - Mar 21 with 2668 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:14 - Mar 21 by johnlangy |
You ask why there wasn't a second question on the ballot paper about abolishing the Assembly. If there are so many that want to vote for abolish, as you and others are suggesting, they would also want to limit the powers that the Assembly had if that was the only question.
The fact that they didn't even make the effort to go to the polling station and vote no says it all. The numbers are not there. |
Your logic is not correct people will not go along to vote on abolishing devolution unless that question is on the ballot paper. It is a bit like saying the 33% who do not bother to vote in a general election are happy to keep the same government in power. | |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:47 - Mar 21 with 2665 views | Scotia |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:07 - Mar 21 by johnlangy |
Why on earth do you claim that devolution was forced on us ? We had a democratic vote. The majority, however small that was, voted yes.
It was not forced on us. |
The majority was just 0.3 %, the turnout was just 50 %. The turnout for increased powers was 30%.
It could be said that 75% of the population either didn't want devolution or didn't care whether we had it or not.
At the outset the population of Wales didn't care about devolution, it was forced upon us by the Blair administration. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 14:11 - Mar 21 with 2639 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:47 - Mar 21 by Scotia |
The majority was just 0.3 %, the turnout was just 50 %. The turnout for increased powers was 30%.
It could be said that 75% of the population either didn't want devolution or didn't care whether we had it or not.
At the outset the population of Wales didn't care about devolution, it was forced upon us by the Blair administration. |
Correct and despite widespread opposition to devolution the Labour run Senedd have never given the Welsh Voters another referendum. Just like no referendum on increasing the Number of Senedd members by 50% or reducing the voting ages to allow children to vote. | |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 14:31 - Mar 21 with 2615 views | johnlangy |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 11:47 - Mar 21 by Scotia |
The majority was just 0.3 %, the turnout was just 50 %. The turnout for increased powers was 30%.
It could be said that 75% of the population either didn't want devolution or didn't care whether we had it or not.
At the outset the population of Wales didn't care about devolution, it was forced upon us by the Blair administration. |
Forced - 'imposed by coercion or physical power'.
Seriously. Devolution was 'forced' on us ! The only thing 'forced' on us was a referendum asking if we wanted to elect an Assembly. And the Welsh people said yes, we want it. No force at all.
You have a strange relationship with the meaning of that word Scotia. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 17:16 - Mar 22 with 2548 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 14:31 - Mar 21 by johnlangy |
Forced - 'imposed by coercion or physical power'.
Seriously. Devolution was 'forced' on us ! The only thing 'forced' on us was a referendum asking if we wanted to elect an Assembly. And the Welsh people said yes, we want it. No force at all.
You have a strange relationship with the meaning of that word Scotia. |
Actually a minority of the Welsh people said yes. A very slghtly smaller number said no and over 49% of Welsh people didn't bother to vote at all.
To think that people (after Brexit) were saying that any referendum should have a minimum turnout with a bigger margin ( some said 65% in favour) before we allowed change. By that Brexit argument we wouldn't have the Senedd now and we wouldn't have supported extra powers.
Democracy doesn't work that way though. It's not perfect but it's better than several alternatives. | | | |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 23:00 - Mar 22 with 2489 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 09:07 - Mar 21 by johnlangy |
Why on earth do you claim that devolution was forced on us ? We had a democratic vote. The majority, however small that was, voted yes.
It was not forced on us. |
Well said John. | |
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| The Welsh constitional commission on 23:16 - Mar 22 with 2487 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Welsh constitional commission on 17:16 - Mar 22 by SullutaCreturned |
Actually a minority of the Welsh people said yes. A very slghtly smaller number said no and over 49% of Welsh people didn't bother to vote at all.
To think that people (after Brexit) were saying that any referendum should have a minimum turnout with a bigger margin ( some said 65% in favour) before we allowed change. By that Brexit argument we wouldn't have the Senedd now and we wouldn't have supported extra powers.
Democracy doesn't work that way though. It's not perfect but it's better than several alternatives. |
The Brexit vote was an advisory vote for specific reasons.
The referendum franchise excluded —
16- and 17-year-olds,
expatriate British citizens who had lived abroad for more than a certain number of years, and
EU citizens resident in the UK and paying their taxes there.
It would seem obvious that all three groups should have been included as having the most material interest in the outcome of the vote. (In the franchise for the Scottish independence referendum of 2014, 16- and 17-year-olds had the vote and so did EU citizens resident in Scotland)
The outcome was that 37% of the restricted electorate given the franchise for the referendum voted to leave the EU. This outcome is by any standards insufficient to justify a constitutional change so significant as the UK’s exiting the EU.
The 1997 vote in Wales was over 50% of voters. And over 50% of them voted yes.
I hope you can see the difference. | |
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