| Hillsbourgh bbc2 21:38 - May 8 with 6329 views | HollowayRanger |
Horrible to watch never stood a chance |  |
| |  |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 15:25 - May 10 with 1988 views | paulparker |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 15:08 - May 10 by BrianMcCarthy |
To be fair, the ban on English clubs wasn't solely down to Liverpool. Heysel was the final English straw that broke the UEFA camel's back. After all, Juve fans fought that day, too, but there was no ban on Italian fans. English fans had sinned once too often.
Many, many clubs must take the blame for the ban, including Rangers. we weren't as Neanderthal as most clubs but we had our fair share of thugs and thuggery too. |
I agree to a degree on that Brian , the government didn't do us any favours by any means at the time re the ban either
yes its not just down to Liverpool but they have never taken responsibility for Heysel , they are always quite happy to brush it under the carpet or blame it on Chelsea and millwall fans that's where I have a problem with them
they kicked off , they led the charge and they wanted revenge for Rome , it was them who killed those Italian fans
Liverpool have quite rightly fought for justice to clear there name over Hillsborough but its funny how they still allow the myth to continue about Heysel
and because of that the Gerry francis team of 92 , or the Jim smith team of 87/88 never got to play in the Uefa cup |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
|
| |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 15:41 - May 10 with 1960 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 15:25 - May 10 by paulparker |
I agree to a degree on that Brian , the government didn't do us any favours by any means at the time re the ban either
yes its not just down to Liverpool but they have never taken responsibility for Heysel , they are always quite happy to brush it under the carpet or blame it on Chelsea and millwall fans that's where I have a problem with them
they kicked off , they led the charge and they wanted revenge for Rome , it was them who killed those Italian fans
Liverpool have quite rightly fought for justice to clear there name over Hillsborough but its funny how they still allow the myth to continue about Heysel
and because of that the Gerry francis team of 92 , or the Jim smith team of 87/88 never got to play in the Uefa cup |
Sound, PP.
I honestly don't know enough about Heysel, so I wouldn't argue on that score, and I'm certainly no fan of Liverpool so I'm not sticking up for them. I just wanted to make that specific point that the post-Heysel ban was the fault of many clubs. |  |
| |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 09:54 - May 11 with 1798 views | Brightonhoop |
No fan of Liverpool either, but the truth on Hillsborough now needs to be seen through on convictions. Duckenfield alone couldn't have doctored all those police statements, no doubt some 'just following orders' are living on very comfortable pensions they have no entitlement to. So I hope they end up inside where they belong.
On Heysel, the charge at the Italians was a consequence of Pool being attacked through a flimsy chicken wire fence designed to keep supporters apart, and an even flimsier police line, in a crumbling stadium. It was a car crash waiting to happen.
I once met parents of one of the Italian deceased. It was extremely awkward and embarrassing. That football match had ruined their lives and it was etched on their faces 25 years later. |  | | |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 10:43 - May 11 with 1771 views | A40Bosh |
Because I switched over to watch it 20mins after the start of it, I later went back to watch the beginning and was interested to see that the start of the programme with a dramatization of the fake kidnapping of the rooky PC by a couple of his squad and that as a direct result of the PC complaining about it, there was an investigation which lead to sackings and changes in leadership and as a direct result Duckensfield only then being brought in a month before the semi final to replace the previous senior copper - who had successfully managed a number of previous big games at Hillsborough before.
It make you wonder if there are a few ex-coppers who may have been watching that were given yet another reminder some 27 years after the event that sometimes when an ill conceived prank goes wrong - it can REALLY go wrong. |  |
| |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 12:41 - May 11 with 1724 views | hoops_legend |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 10:43 - May 11 by A40Bosh |
Because I switched over to watch it 20mins after the start of it, I later went back to watch the beginning and was interested to see that the start of the programme with a dramatization of the fake kidnapping of the rooky PC by a couple of his squad and that as a direct result of the PC complaining about it, there was an investigation which lead to sackings and changes in leadership and as a direct result Duckensfield only then being brought in a month before the semi final to replace the previous senior copper - who had successfully managed a number of previous big games at Hillsborough before.
It make you wonder if there are a few ex-coppers who may have been watching that were given yet another reminder some 27 years after the event that sometimes when an ill conceived prank goes wrong - it can REALLY go wrong. |
Watching it - the police are of course to blame for not ensuring a bottleneck of queuing would happen outside the ground and not talking with staff to ensure an even spread of crowds.
However, the fans who 'turned up' to an all ticket affair, pushed there way into the crowd and caused overcrowding have to look at themselves. I'm not saying they should be blamed but surely their actions did not help the situation and if these chancers hadn't come on that day and tried to illegally enter the crowd - we would not be discussing this today. |  | | |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 12:47 - May 11 with 1711 views | OutWestR |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 12:41 - May 11 by hoops_legend |
Watching it - the police are of course to blame for not ensuring a bottleneck of queuing would happen outside the ground and not talking with staff to ensure an even spread of crowds.
However, the fans who 'turned up' to an all ticket affair, pushed there way into the crowd and caused overcrowding have to look at themselves. I'm not saying they should be blamed but surely their actions did not help the situation and if these chancers hadn't come on that day and tried to illegally enter the crowd - we would not be discussing this today. |
I might have misinterpreted what was said on the programme, but I thought there was some analysis done which pretty much dispelled the myth about ticket less fans. Or at least the numbers were small enough not to have contributed to the crush. |  | | |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 13:04 - May 11 with 1680 views | A40Bosh |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 12:41 - May 11 by hoops_legend |
Watching it - the police are of course to blame for not ensuring a bottleneck of queuing would happen outside the ground and not talking with staff to ensure an even spread of crowds.
However, the fans who 'turned up' to an all ticket affair, pushed there way into the crowd and caused overcrowding have to look at themselves. I'm not saying they should be blamed but surely their actions did not help the situation and if these chancers hadn't come on that day and tried to illegally enter the crowd - we would not be discussing this today. |
Legend,
unless I am mistaken, the whole point of the programme and the findings of the 2 year inquiry which came to its conclusion last week, was to prove that there was absolutely no evidence of there being "ticketless fans" pushing their way in to the ground and having "caused" the disaster.
The findings prove once again that for 27 years Duckensfield and SYP conspired to hide the truth that it was the total mismanagement of the match, from pre-match preparation to the execution of match day duties, that led to 24K supporters with valid tickets being expected to pass through 7 turnstiles via an approach that was not suited for the congregation of large numbers of people. The evidence was there before 2:30pm on camera that the police were not coping and there were two direct consequences of Duckensfield being ill prepared. He ordered the exit gate C to be opened and more importantly he did not ensure that prior to making the decision to open the gates that stewarding and police presence was in place at the tunnel entrance to monitor the dispersion of the incoming crowds en masse. He did not know the ground and he did not give any consideration to public safety.
Last season I arrived at LR at 2:15 and realized when I got to the SAR turnstile that I had picked up my membership and not my season ticket and so I had to queue for more than 30mins to get a replacement from the box office. At gone 2:50 I had to work my way through a large crowd trying to still get in to the Upper Loft entrance (I think that is the one in the corner beside the SAR entrance) before I could get to the entrance to the SAR turnstiles. So it happens at most grounds most Saturdays.
Furthermore the numbers counted by the authorities at the time actually concluded that there were the correct number of people for the number of tickets sold in the vicinity give or take a few and a few witness reports I have read are that some fans from other stands were given incorrect directions by police or stewards and also arrived at Leppings Lane.
If supporters arriving late at a ground need to look at themselves, then supporters both home and away from every club up and down the land need to look at themselves. In other words, fans were only doing what fans are normally expected to do. The problem was that Duckensfield and the police at Hillsborough were not doing what they normally are expected to do - and there is where the problem has been proven to lie. | |
| |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 13:46 - May 11 with 1631 views | MrNITK |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 13:04 - May 11 by A40Bosh |
Legend,
unless I am mistaken, the whole point of the programme and the findings of the 2 year inquiry which came to its conclusion last week, was to prove that there was absolutely no evidence of there being "ticketless fans" pushing their way in to the ground and having "caused" the disaster.
The findings prove once again that for 27 years Duckensfield and SYP conspired to hide the truth that it was the total mismanagement of the match, from pre-match preparation to the execution of match day duties, that led to 24K supporters with valid tickets being expected to pass through 7 turnstiles via an approach that was not suited for the congregation of large numbers of people. The evidence was there before 2:30pm on camera that the police were not coping and there were two direct consequences of Duckensfield being ill prepared. He ordered the exit gate C to be opened and more importantly he did not ensure that prior to making the decision to open the gates that stewarding and police presence was in place at the tunnel entrance to monitor the dispersion of the incoming crowds en masse. He did not know the ground and he did not give any consideration to public safety.
Last season I arrived at LR at 2:15 and realized when I got to the SAR turnstile that I had picked up my membership and not my season ticket and so I had to queue for more than 30mins to get a replacement from the box office. At gone 2:50 I had to work my way through a large crowd trying to still get in to the Upper Loft entrance (I think that is the one in the corner beside the SAR entrance) before I could get to the entrance to the SAR turnstiles. So it happens at most grounds most Saturdays.
Furthermore the numbers counted by the authorities at the time actually concluded that there were the correct number of people for the number of tickets sold in the vicinity give or take a few and a few witness reports I have read are that some fans from other stands were given incorrect directions by police or stewards and also arrived at Leppings Lane.
If supporters arriving late at a ground need to look at themselves, then supporters both home and away from every club up and down the land need to look at themselves. In other words, fans were only doing what fans are normally expected to do. The problem was that Duckensfield and the police at Hillsborough were not doing what they normally are expected to do - and there is where the problem has been proven to lie. |
Spot on! The bullsh!t that's been spun has been going on so long people have started to believe it. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 13:55 - May 11 with 1620 views | MrSheen |
I read in the papers last week that there were already nearly 1300 people in the deadly pen, which had a safe capacity of 700, when Duckenfield ordered the gates open, and that no more than 150-200 people got in afterwards. Though there's no way of knowing it seems possible that there might have been fatalities anyway. Though the focus is now on pursuing the police for their despicable cover-up, there were lots of other people culpable for the disaster. It boggles the mind that anyone ever thought Hillsborough was the right place for the game. |  | | |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 14:03 - May 11 with 1606 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 13:55 - May 11 by MrSheen |
I read in the papers last week that there were already nearly 1300 people in the deadly pen, which had a safe capacity of 700, when Duckenfield ordered the gates open, and that no more than 150-200 people got in afterwards. Though there's no way of knowing it seems possible that there might have been fatalities anyway. Though the focus is now on pursuing the police for their despicable cover-up, there were lots of other people culpable for the disaster. It boggles the mind that anyone ever thought Hillsborough was the right place for the game. |
The FA are certainly getting off lightly at the moment, we can only hope their day will come. | |
| |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 14:23 - May 11 with 1587 views | paulparker |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 14:03 - May 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
The FA are certainly getting off lightly at the moment, we can only hope their day will come. |
wasn't it Dave Richards who was on the board of the FA who also happened to be Sheff wed chairman at the time ?
explains a lot when you look at the problems in 81, 87, 88 and then in 89 , Richards and the fa knew full well it didn't have a safety certificate but still it was given money spinning ties there , money for old rope
it suits a lot of people that Duckenfield finally fell on his sword , he will be the fall guy (quite rightly) but many like Richards, Graham Kelly, politicians, the local council , I reckon will get away with it | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
|
| |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 17:49 - May 11 with 1495 views | Harbour |
Watched it last night. Brought out the full horror of the disaster. Having watched it some people need to do time for the terrible mishandling of the event and the shocking cover up and even worse blaming the fans when there was no fault.Parts of the film are very hard to view including how the relatives of the dead were treated. Hills borough is the most awful example of a miscarriage of justice. RIP the 96 there but the grace of God could any of us been caught up in such an event. |  | | |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 18:35 - May 11 with 1465 views | derbyhoop |
For all the factors leading to the tragedy the most fundamental was that SYP had a duty of care to all the fans attending that event. The inquiry's conclusions show that they did not exercise that duty. And then compounded the failure by a blatant cover up.
Whether anybody stands trial for their actions that day is probably irrelevant and it's doubtful if there is any pubic benefit in pursuing legal action so long after the event. What matters is that the families have justice and we have learnt the necessary lessons. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
| |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 21:43 - May 11 with 1406 views | TGRRRSSS |
Nobody really knows if there were ticketless fans or not because the crush outside began well before the five to three brigade and quite simply when they did open the gates the police and stewards (or whoever) simply waved them through nobody closed the tunnel and it's shown clearly why the majority were simply caught up in the wave of people effectively.
It's also made clear that late comers coming through much later died not just people up the front .
Duckenfield Panicked and said one simply lie because he had frozen, he was out of his depth and once he'd done it there was no going back.
I see that the muppet that is Eamon Holmes today made connections to Hillsborough to the actions last night - perpetuating the myth that violence was why Hillsborough happened.
If you go bac k to the 81 Semi final (before I was born) you can see the warnings then.
I believe the Sheffield Wednesday Chairman when warned of problems at that end said "Bollocks" to the idea someone could die in there. |  | | |
| Hillsbourgh bbc2 on 21:50 - May 11 with 1232 views | komradkirk |
Eamon Holmes is a fool,always been embarrassed to come from the same borough as him |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
