| Priti Patel on 09:13 - Nov 9 with 3370 views | terryb |
| Priti Patel on 08:57 - Nov 9 by PlanetHonneywood |
An independent analysis of National Socialism and Communism as practiced by some post-WW2 despots might struggle to differentiate if not the objective, then certainly the methodology.
On the 'Paradise Papers' thread, I mentioned how the Russian establishment are funding both pro- and anti-Putin organisations.
If you will, it's not so much a horseshoe, for there is a gap, as it is the rounding of the circle with the minions in the middle. |
Exactly as I've always seen it.
The circle of life where the two "extremes" meet. Good luck in telling them apart!
A serious question. Whilst politicians publically make their entrenched statements, do they in private (or in cabinet) consider views from the other side which they personally think to be correct (or at least reasonable)? |  | |  |
| Priti Patel (n/t) on 09:28 - Nov 9 with 3348 views | essextaxiboy |
| Priti Patel (n/t) on 00:38 - Nov 9 by FDC |
You talk about entrenched positions but I find it hard to see how an intelligent bloke can honestly think the Corbyn platform is "extreme left". It's hyperbole.
You would presumably consider me "extreme left" and that's fine (unlike Blairites and centrists I'm comfortable with my label  ). I find Corbyn's position appealing because he's successfully shifted the Overton window, but nothing he's proposing would be considered particularly leftwing in much of the world outside of the UK, or even within the UK 20-odd years ago.
Edit: Lol, I see you've edited your post after I posted. Sneaky. [Post edited 9 Nov 2017 14:56]
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John Mcdonnell is a self confessed Marxist who threw Mau,s Little Red Book across the despatch box . This man would control the nation finances .
Corbyns image is being carefully managed IMO , but his failure to deal with Anti Semitism and thuggish behaviour of some of his supporters betrays him .
A weird part of me would like him to get in , IMO and I know its not shared by many on here thing would get very bad very quickly and another generation would realise that on paper it looks ok , in practice it doesnt work .
On Patel , there is protocol and she ignored it and has done the right thing .
On Johnson , to blurt it out is crass and careless ....unless there is some truth in it .Can anyone point to any real evidence that she is innocent of what she is accused of , or are we just taking her and her pleasant media savvy husbands side against a normally horrible regime .its an honest question , maybe I have missed something . I havnt bought a paper for a year or two .. |  | | |
| Priti Patel on 09:53 - Nov 9 with 3319 views | TheChef |
"On Patel , there is protocol and she ignored it and has done the right thing . "
And well done her!
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| Priti Patel on 10:39 - Nov 9 with 3281 views | FDC |
| Priti Patel on 08:39 - Nov 9 by TheChef |
Bingo!
What I was thinking of is called the Horseshoe Theory apparently.
"The horseshoe theory asserts that the far left and the far right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, in fact closely resemble one another, much like the ends of a horseshoe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory |
Lol. Yeah, and like, really, antifascists are the real fascists man
 |  | | |
| Priti Patel on 10:40 - Nov 9 with 3278 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Priti Patel on 09:53 - Nov 9 by TheChef |
"On Patel , there is protocol and she ignored it and has done the right thing . "
And well done her!
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Yeah, kinda think it was more a case of she being told that she was going, but was offered the chance to go first.
Her resignation came only after being summonsed back while on a trip to Africa! I'd wager the resignation letter was all ready and waiting for her to check before signing.
Like to know what the 'other details coming to light' are? |  |
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| Priti Patel on 11:16 - Nov 9 with 3246 views | WestbourneR |
| Priti Patel on 19:47 - Nov 8 by Northernr |
Again, exactly my point.
They've fcked up here, clearly, Patel and Johnson. But you've nailed your colours to the mast and the standard of political discourse in this country, and the US, at the moment means you'd rather say something ridiculous that makes you look wilfully stupid than say "actually, they're my party and I support them but on this occasion a couple of them have fcked up".
We saw the same with Diane Abbott during the election. Good local MP by all accounts but clearly too fcking stupid to be pitched for the higher office they wanted her in. Now people on the left should have just said "yeh, she's not quite up to this" but instead they made anybody who said "look at this fcking berk" out to be a bully and/or a racist.
As somebody who's right wing on some things (prisons, benefits) left on others (privatisation of utilities/railways, immigration) and centrist on others (Europe) I find this polarisation of the whole country, this treatment of everything as a black and white issue, this division between right and left and never the two shall meet even for a second on any issue, demoralising, dispiriting and, most importantly, entirely counter productive to the national interest.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
You sound like a Lib Dem to me Northern. |  |
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| Priti Patel on 11:32 - Nov 9 with 3205 views | Northernr |
| Priti Patel on 11:16 - Nov 9 by WestbourneR |
You sound like a Lib Dem to me Northern. |
Don't think I am. I find it really tough to vote (though not at the moment because the Tory incumbent in Barnet is a toffy nosed privileged joke so I just vote for whoever is most likely to beat her).
I don't think it's good that things people rely on like gas, leccy, water, trains are held by private businesses for profit. So that makes me left. But then I think if you do bad then you go to prison and if you do very bad you go to prison for a long time and if you go to prison you go there for the length of time you were sentenced and when you get there it should be a fcking horrible evil place, which makes me right. I think the NHS and police should be properly funded and mission creep of private sector there stopped, which is left. But I think I work hard for my money and I don't think it should be taken off me and given to people that don't, which is right.
Like I say, always find it tough pinpointing exactly where I am on the political spectrum. |  | | |
| Priti Patel on 11:46 - Nov 9 with 3168 views | stevec |
| Priti Patel on 11:32 - Nov 9 by Northernr |
Don't think I am. I find it really tough to vote (though not at the moment because the Tory incumbent in Barnet is a toffy nosed privileged joke so I just vote for whoever is most likely to beat her).
I don't think it's good that things people rely on like gas, leccy, water, trains are held by private businesses for profit. So that makes me left. But then I think if you do bad then you go to prison and if you do very bad you go to prison for a long time and if you go to prison you go there for the length of time you were sentenced and when you get there it should be a fcking horrible evil place, which makes me right. I think the NHS and police should be properly funded and mission creep of private sector there stopped, which is left. But I think I work hard for my money and I don't think it should be taken off me and given to people that don't, which is right.
Like I say, always find it tough pinpointing exactly where I am on the political spectrum. |
Whether you're Left, Right or Centre chances are we all think pretty much like that.
The issue is, all that stuff costs a lot of money so you have to decide which party you think will bring most of that to fruition without actually bankrupting the country. None of them are anywhere near perfect so you make a judgment call.
If Labour ever get in to power and carry out their manifesto without leaving the country on the brink of financial collapse I'd happily vote for them. Trouble is I can only go on what I've seen and both times they've had a go (70's and 97-2010) they've managed to wreck the joint. |  | | |
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| Priti Patel on 11:47 - Nov 9 with 3167 views | Dorse |
All this debate doesn't answer the question of whether she had a nice time on holiday. And no one has even thought to ask about the weather or the food. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Priti Patel on 11:52 - Nov 9 with 3153 views | WestbourneR |
| Priti Patel on 11:32 - Nov 9 by Northernr |
Don't think I am. I find it really tough to vote (though not at the moment because the Tory incumbent in Barnet is a toffy nosed privileged joke so I just vote for whoever is most likely to beat her).
I don't think it's good that things people rely on like gas, leccy, water, trains are held by private businesses for profit. So that makes me left. But then I think if you do bad then you go to prison and if you do very bad you go to prison for a long time and if you go to prison you go there for the length of time you were sentenced and when you get there it should be a fcking horrible evil place, which makes me right. I think the NHS and police should be properly funded and mission creep of private sector there stopped, which is left. But I think I work hard for my money and I don't think it should be taken off me and given to people that don't, which is right.
Like I say, always find it tough pinpointing exactly where I am on the political spectrum. |
I'm much the same - my views are all over the spectrum. I'm personally quite sympathetic to concerns over mass immigration and lack of integration. You only need to work in East London to know that there is potentially a problem. That said, I'm massively anti-Brexit and think it was all built on lies and will waste a huge of time, badly damage the economy and achieve nil. That ties into immigration because I don't personally feel immigration from the EU is the problem at all.
Agree with you about properly funding public services, getting rich corporations and individuals to pay tax, and to not freely dispense overly generous benefits that breed a generation of under motivated and unemployed.
I think the class system tears this country apart. I would legalise and tax drugs.
So yeah I'm all over the place and it's hard to find a spot. But the Lib Dems get the closest to what I stand for. | |
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| Priti Patel on 11:58 - Nov 9 with 3140 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Priti Patel on 08:16 - Nov 9 by MrSheen |
Memberphilia - a deviant condition of advancing age, finding MPs attractive.
I have a severe form of it, Sid James Syndrome, helpless growling whenever Angela Rayner appears on my telly. |
Anne Aly MP, Labour, from WA, Muslim, Counter-Terrorism expert.
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| Priti Patel on 12:07 - Nov 9 with 3119 views | Mick_S |
| Priti Patel on 08:16 - Nov 9 by MrSheen |
Memberphilia - a deviant condition of advancing age, finding MPs attractive.
I have a severe form of it, Sid James Syndrome, helpless growling whenever Angela Rayner appears on my telly. |
You are not alone.
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| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Priti Patel on 12:42 - Nov 9 with 3053 views | robith |
| Priti Patel on 18:19 - Nov 8 by stevec |
Robith, 90% of women, seriously?
Not sure what age group you are in, but in mine, those women in their 50's, most seem to think what constitutes sexual harassment these days has gone a step too far.
Eye of the beholder and all that, but my wife is and was an attractive woman. She's had numerous blokes try it on with her since she was an adult but said she understands what blokes want, they are the hunter so to speak so only they can make a fúck up of any approach. A clumsy approach, in her view, doesn't make a sexual predator.
Of course, there are things blokes do that are illegal and they deserve any punishment they get. But 90% suggests that virtually all men are sexual predators, unless there's one particularly busy perv around your area.
I do get concerned how men turn their backs on men, whereas women, commendably, seem to be rather protective of each other. Do you think you do a service to your fellow man to believe that 90% of women have been genuinely sexual harassed because it implies all us men are a pretty despicable bunch.
One other thing, being elected doesn't necessarily mean you're running the country. |
Hi Steve,
I didn't say 90% of women - I said about 90% of the women I know, a tacit admission that it is a self selective sample, but given what they've put up with (being creeped on at work, followed home, belittled for their gender all the way up to rape and other major sexual assaults) I felt a tad aggrieved that you were boiling it down to men not being allowed to ask women out. Which also seems to be such a common theme - I am unsure about why middle aged men seem so obsessed on that one!
But you seemed to intentionally misread that and go off on some other tangent.
I don't know why I feel compelled to reply to you - often I wonder if you're just trolling me and relishing my reactions. But I guess that's just who I am I suppose. These issues aren't something I can just joke about. And no I would not default stand up for all men automatically because that maintains the ability of those men who do harrass and assault women to continue to do so. I think quite a lot of men have an issue with sexualised violence and other men complicity accept it and we really need to stand up and address it.
I was recently in a club where my friend was ejected because a girl he was, on reflection, essentially harassing, asked a bouncer from him to be removed. And I realised, actually he'd been doing that, making women feel uncomfortable and scared, the whole time I'd known him and I'd just turned a blind eye to it cos it's just lads innit. How are you supposed to pull otherwise? All that had really changed in that time was now a woman felt empowered enough to get him to stop. I reflected and realised that I needed to be stronger and call out my fellow men on the damaging behaviour - because I want a society where everyone is treated fairly, and that onus falls on myself to improve and to call on others to above.
That's not going to be accomplished by snide whatabouttery with the intention of maintaining the current power imbalance in society on multiple levels (gender, racial, class). I'm not sure what I owe my fellow men exactly - they already have pretty much everything |  | | |
| Priti Patel on 13:26 - Nov 9 with 2992 views | R_from_afar |
| Priti Patel on 15:03 - Nov 8 by robith |
Johnson's non apology and ranting partisan riposte made me stomach churn. I noted even key Tories turned on him. This isn't a party political issue - I very much doubt the Conservative government wants UK citizens to be abused overseas let alone due to the mistakes of the Foreign bloody Secretary. Yet he's there making it worse because he can't handle criticism. Won't even meet her family ffs. absolute bloody disgrace of a man |
“I'm sorry if any words of mine have been taken out of context and misconstrued to cause anxiety to Nazanin's family.”
Ahem, "taken out of context" is not synonymous with "completely inaccurate" or "totally wrong".
Being able to sound posh, quote Ovid and use polysyllabic words appropriately does not equate to him doing his job properly. He's an incompetent, untrustworthy, self-centred opportunist who is winging it.
Unacceptable in any organisation, let alone the cabinet!
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Priti Patel on 13:32 - Nov 9 with 2974 views | R_from_afar |
| Priti Patel on 22:32 - Nov 8 by Northernr |
But people entrenching in their views, digging in and saying things they know are ridiculous because it sticks with the party line of their chosen side? Where’s that getting anybody? Just turns the whole thing into a personality contest and witch hunt.
This demonisation of people in the centre is doing my head in.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
It's sunk cost effect in all its glory. Doggedly hanging on to one's beliefs no matter what and destroying the organisation/country/planet in so doing.
People's reaction to man-made climate change and global warming provides countless examples.
RFA
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/27047/economics/sunk-cost-fallacy/ | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Priti Patel on 14:46 - Nov 9 with 2882 views | LunarJetman |
| Priti Patel on 12:07 - Nov 9 by Mick_S |
You are not alone.
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You mean this?
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| Priti Patel (n/t) on 16:09 - Nov 9 with 2823 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Priti Patel (n/t) on 09:28 - Nov 9 by essextaxiboy |
John Mcdonnell is a self confessed Marxist who threw Mau,s Little Red Book across the despatch box . This man would control the nation finances .
Corbyns image is being carefully managed IMO , but his failure to deal with Anti Semitism and thuggish behaviour of some of his supporters betrays him .
A weird part of me would like him to get in , IMO and I know its not shared by many on here thing would get very bad very quickly and another generation would realise that on paper it looks ok , in practice it doesnt work .
On Patel , there is protocol and she ignored it and has done the right thing .
On Johnson , to blurt it out is crass and careless ....unless there is some truth in it .Can anyone point to any real evidence that she is innocent of what she is accused of , or are we just taking her and her pleasant media savvy husbands side against a normally horrible regime .its an honest question , maybe I have missed something . I havnt bought a paper for a year or two .. |
I don’t think you know what Marxist means, otherwise you wouldn’t be throwing it around like an insult.
You also failed to mention that the Red book stunt by McDonnell was a piss take of George Osborne who had just sold the Chinese billions of pounds worth of UK national assets. [Post edited 9 Nov 2017 16:10]
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| Priti Patel (n/t) on 17:02 - Nov 9 with 2768 views | johncharles |
| Priti Patel (n/t) on 16:09 - Nov 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I don’t think you know what Marxist means, otherwise you wouldn’t be throwing it around like an insult.
You also failed to mention that the Red book stunt by McDonnell was a piss take of George Osborne who had just sold the Chinese billions of pounds worth of UK national assets. [Post edited 9 Nov 2017 16:10]
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Of course Essex knows that the red book stunt was meant sarcastically it just suits his agenda to pretend it was do e as a tribute to Mao.
Me and Essex disagree on just about everything but never thought of him as stupid. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Priti Patel on 17:08 - Nov 9 with 2762 views | hubble |
| Priti Patel on 11:32 - Nov 9 by Northernr |
Don't think I am. I find it really tough to vote (though not at the moment because the Tory incumbent in Barnet is a toffy nosed privileged joke so I just vote for whoever is most likely to beat her).
I don't think it's good that things people rely on like gas, leccy, water, trains are held by private businesses for profit. So that makes me left. But then I think if you do bad then you go to prison and if you do very bad you go to prison for a long time and if you go to prison you go there for the length of time you were sentenced and when you get there it should be a fcking horrible evil place, which makes me right. I think the NHS and police should be properly funded and mission creep of private sector there stopped, which is left. But I think I work hard for my money and I don't think it should be taken off me and given to people that don't, which is right.
Like I say, always find it tough pinpointing exactly where I am on the political spectrum. |
I think National Socialist would be a fair description of that political position Clive. |  |
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| Priti Patel on 17:18 - Nov 9 with 2749 views | FDC |
| Priti Patel on 17:08 - Nov 9 by hubble |
I think National Socialist would be a fair description of that political position Clive. |
Shots fired | | | |
| Priti Patel on 17:30 - Nov 9 with 2734 views | TacticalR |
@essextaxiboy 'John Mcdonnell is a self confessed Marxist who threw Mao's Little Red Book across the despatch box'
Corbyn's appearance at the CBI Conference this week is a better guide to what's going on than Mcdonnell's radical phrase-mongering.
In Marx's day the oddities of some of the people claiming to be Marxists led Marx to exclaim: 'What is certain is that I myself am not a Marxist'.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/quotes/index.htm |  |
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| Priti Patel on 17:30 - Nov 9 with 2733 views | Northernr |
| Priti Patel on 17:08 - Nov 9 by hubble |
I think National Socialist would be a fair description of that political position Clive. |
And again, exactly what I was referring to at the start - one of you thinks it makes me a liberal democrat and somebody else thinks it makes me a Nazi.
Pathetic really, and I'll now go back to my usual position of not bothering with these threads. | | | |
| Priti Patel on 17:36 - Nov 9 with 2720 views | hubble |
| Priti Patel on 17:30 - Nov 9 by Northernr |
And again, exactly what I was referring to at the start - one of you thinks it makes me a liberal democrat and somebody else thinks it makes me a Nazi.
Pathetic really, and I'll now go back to my usual position of not bothering with these threads. |
I don't think you're a Nazi in any way. I'm simply pointing out the political perspective you have outlined pretty much mirrors that of the National Socialists. It's the best description of your political position I can think of. The socialist part of 'National Socialist' is usually forgotten, it seems. What happened to that party in Germany is another story. | |
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| Priti Patel on 17:41 - Nov 9 with 2711 views | ShotKneesHoop |
| Priti Patel on 17:30 - Nov 9 by Northernr |
And again, exactly what I was referring to at the start - one of you thinks it makes me a liberal democrat and somebody else thinks it makes me a Nazi.
Pathetic really, and I'll now go back to my usual position of not bothering with these threads. |
Shame, because this thread has now descending into the worst of name calling and blaming, whereas the earlier posts were well thought out and considered opinions from both sides.
We have since moved from W.12 to SW. sodding 6. From Alan McDonald to John Terry in one page of posts.
The last posters need to have a look at themselves. Apart from Lunar Jetman and Mick S, many thanks to you two for showing the world that Angela Rayner really has got quite a pair of overlapping full baps. [Post edited 9 Nov 2017 17:47]
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| Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me! |
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| Priti Patel on 17:55 - Nov 9 with 2691 views | derbyhoop |
Patel was a very PC choice for this era. Female, Asian, Tory, right-wing. None of that mattered. She went because she brazenly broke ministerial protocols. And so she should.
The trouble is that, after 2 resignations in just over a week, other ministers cannot go unless they're caught red-handed slaughtering the first born. Considering Boris has a gaffe every time he opens his mouth and Damian Green has been rumoured to have groped women and had porn on his work computer, they can't be dismissed. A month ago people on the right of the Tory party were calling for Hammond and Rudd to go. They are all safe for 3 months. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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