| VAT office help wanted 09:00 - Nov 22 with 2028 views | RangersDave |
Hi guys,
I run my own company, and the quarter before last put in a claim for £20k VAT, this being the figure ,give or take, i’d Had to pay in import duty.
I used monies to pay the import duty from my business account as there was a strange ‘overlap’ of funds paid by the client to importing them, so I had to do this to get product for the client.
Anyway, the VAT office said basically that they disputed the sums involved, and I had to prove that I had imported and paid duty on the goods. This is did, sending them the legal vat payment certificates (copies) as apparently the HMRC import duty guys don’t talk to the VAT guys.
Not good enough and apparently suspicious they asked for an audit on my business going back 3 years.
Done and sent in, but......... no joy, claiming not to have received the info I sent them, I resent it along with proof of receipt from the first lot their end.
Now, i’m 20k in the hole, the new quarter has come and gone, and I owe 15k more, they aren’t responding to requests for monies back now (this is almost 4 months by the way) and have not done anything about this as far as I can tell.
Anyone got any advice as to my next steps and what I can do?
I run a slim company profit wise, and haven’t taken a wage in the 4 years I have been building it, but to now have 20k tied up, and 15k to pay that’s now overdue as I don’t have the ‘readies’ anymore.
To be brutally honest it’s driving me close to the edge financially, and i’m At my wits end.
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks
Dave |  |
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| VAT office help wanted on 09:21 - Nov 22 with 1997 views | stevec |
Wish I could help directly but the only advice I can give is get some professional advice.
I know, this costs money.
It might be worth calling the Federation of Small Business (FSB) as they provide a free legal service but you would need to join. By the sounds of it, probably won't cost you more than £150 to join. There is the issue of the horse already bolted but maybe call them, put them in the picture and they hopefully can say Yes or No before you sign up.
The only other suggestion would be to get stroppy with them, use the £15k as a bargaining tool, but I suspect you're already trying that.
Good luck though Dave, don't let the b*stards grind you down. |  | | |
| VAT office help wanted on 09:22 - Nov 22 with 1989 views | ShotKneesHoop |
I presume you use a qualified accountant to prepare your year end accounts. Surely he should have either done this for you, or should do it for you now. Remember the VAT man is the only one who can demand access to your home to claim goods to pay off the amount claimed. Even the old bill need to get a warrant to enter your premises. HMRC can enter any time and leave you with just "the tools to carry on your trade!!'
I suggest you either phone your accountant asap - or ask Redknobb for the contact details of his accountant as he has managed to keep 'Arry out of jail for the last 10 years,
[Post edited 22 Nov 2017 10:01]
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| Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me! |
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| VAT office help wanted on 09:22 - Nov 22 with 1993 views | ozexile |
I would engage an accountant mmediately they will know what to do in dealing with the Tax office.
Sorry I can't help more. [Post edited 22 Nov 2017 9:23]
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| VAT office help wanted on 09:46 - Nov 22 with 1949 views | RangersDave |
Cheers guys,
Yup, got an accountant, figures all add up, but now I’m being stonewalled by HMRC and getting nowhere.
FFS, I’ve paid the duty, give me the refund. Simples. Lol
I’m gonna get Harry’s dog to help me, brown envelope at the ready! | |
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| VAT office help wanted on 10:05 - Nov 22 with 1928 views | Mick_S |
Good luck Dave, I understand how you are feeling, having been in a hole with HMRC/vat issues before. I don't have too much advice for you other than try not to worry about it (I know, I know) as you have complied. I deregistered from vat, as I couldn't handle the bastards any more.
I can assure you from prior dealings that HMRC can be incompetent to the extent that they actually make things up - my brother, who runs his own business, was accused of ignoring phone calls that the c nuts never, ever made - this initiated an investigation that did him no favours at all. It concluded when an agent paid a visit, my sister in law explained the situation and the strain he had been under, and the agent shook his head, muttered something about how the case should never have been opened, and closed it there and then.
Keep on at them Dave - it's a grind - good luck. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| VAT office help wanted on 10:08 - Nov 22 with 1919 views | ShotKneesHoop |
| VAT office help wanted on 09:46 - Nov 22 by RangersDave |
Cheers guys,
Yup, got an accountant, figures all add up, but now I’m being stonewalled by HMRC and getting nowhere.
FFS, I’ve paid the duty, give me the refund. Simples. Lol
I’m gonna get Harry’s dog to help me, brown envelope at the ready! |
Get your accountant to approach them on your behalf, it's what they are paid to do.
My VAT Inspector was named "Miss Fudger" - on my first year's annual inspection, my accountant told me on no account to corpse when she introduced herself. I almost bit my lip off to stop an attack of the giggles. VAT Inspectors can be very helpful if you give them the paperwork they want, which I suggest is the problem you seem to have. It sounds like they smell a dog called "Rosie" because the paperwork doesn't make sense to them.
Or you could say "Phook me, I can't read or write, I'm a top top wheeler dealer football manager with buggered knees who operates out of a Porterloo, I'm a kosher sort of bloke, ain't I?" [Post edited 22 Nov 2017 10:10]
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| Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me! |
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| VAT office help wanted on 10:39 - Nov 22 with 1890 views | Shunter |
Import duty is not normally refundable but it depends on what customs transaction code (CTC) was used on the UK import customs entry.
Import VAT can be re-claimed by the UK importer if the goods were imported as part of the importers business. The UK Importer will receive a VAT certificate (Form C79), which proves that VAT was paid on importation.
The import entry is normally completed by a shipping or forwarding agent.
If you are the UK importer and your VAT or EORI number was declared on the import entry you would automatically receive the C79 from HMRC VAT office.
If you have a copy of the import entry (Form C88 & E2) plus the C79 then you can re-claim on your normal quarterly VAT return.
If you do not have a copy of the import entry contact your shipping agent urgently.
Hope the above helps | | | |
| VAT office help wanted on 10:39 - Nov 22 with 1889 views | EastR |
| VAT office help wanted on 09:46 - Nov 22 by RangersDave |
Cheers guys,
Yup, got an accountant, figures all add up, but now I’m being stonewalled by HMRC and getting nowhere.
FFS, I’ve paid the duty, give me the refund. Simples. Lol
I’m gonna get Harry’s dog to help me, brown envelope at the ready! |
you need to get your accountant on the case here, this shouldn't be causing you a cash flow issue
VAT works on a simple offset basis. You are able to offset VAT that you've paid (input VAT) with the VAT you collect as you charge it (output VAT).
That's the £20k you've paid (they owe you) and the £15k you've billed on their behalf (you owe them).
Offsetting those they owe you £5k! | |
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| VAT office help wanted on 10:44 - Nov 22 with 1883 views | Brightonhoop |
Sorry to hear all that Dave, might be worth getting a second opinion on the Accounts for some one fresh to take a different approach. And the FSB route is a good shout too. Hope you get it sorted sooner than later. |  | | |
| VAT office help wanted on 11:01 - Nov 22 with 1870 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| VAT office help wanted on 10:39 - Nov 22 by Shunter |
Import duty is not normally refundable but it depends on what customs transaction code (CTC) was used on the UK import customs entry.
Import VAT can be re-claimed by the UK importer if the goods were imported as part of the importers business. The UK Importer will receive a VAT certificate (Form C79), which proves that VAT was paid on importation.
The import entry is normally completed by a shipping or forwarding agent.
If you are the UK importer and your VAT or EORI number was declared on the import entry you would automatically receive the C79 from HMRC VAT office.
If you have a copy of the import entry (Form C88 & E2) plus the C79 then you can re-claim on your normal quarterly VAT return.
If you do not have a copy of the import entry contact your shipping agent urgently.
Hope the above helps |
This is spot on.
We get a form C79 that supports the fact you have paid input tax on an import.
It seems a bit baffling that they don't even talk to you.
I have a friend who is a VAT expert but I very much doubt he would be cheap and this doesn't sound like it should need that level of input. |  | | |
| VAT office help wanted on 11:21 - Nov 22 with 1843 views | RangersDave |
| VAT office help wanted on 10:39 - Nov 22 by Shunter |
Import duty is not normally refundable but it depends on what customs transaction code (CTC) was used on the UK import customs entry.
Import VAT can be re-claimed by the UK importer if the goods were imported as part of the importers business. The UK Importer will receive a VAT certificate (Form C79), which proves that VAT was paid on importation.
The import entry is normally completed by a shipping or forwarding agent.
If you are the UK importer and your VAT or EORI number was declared on the import entry you would automatically receive the C79 from HMRC VAT office.
If you have a copy of the import entry (Form C88 & E2) plus the C79 then you can re-claim on your normal quarterly VAT return.
If you do not have a copy of the import entry contact your shipping agent urgently.
Hope the above helps |
Hi mate,
yup, all C79's requested sent and received their end, C88 and E2 done too. (you'd think this would be enough, but no!)
The problem is that i have claimed on my normal quarterly but they dont believe it, hence asking for the paperwork, and then escalating to basically an Audit, including last 3 years P+L too.
nothing is even remotely strange in the accounts, and i'm claiming duty back that is substantiated totally by the certificates.
They think that its strange that a company can go from zero to a good Turnover in a short space of time.
If i didnt know better i'd think i have vexed someone in a past life in HMRC. [Post edited 22 Nov 2017 11:22]
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| VAT office help wanted on 13:33 - Nov 22 with 1738 views | derbyhoop |
You've obviously taken professional accountancy advice on this. But sounds like HMRC aren't accepting that.
Get your local MP involved. HMRC are far more likely to react to an MP request than a small businessman. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| VAT office help wanted on 13:53 - Nov 22 with 1716 views | WatfordR |
I can only back up from personal experience what others have said here, get your accountant to speak to the VAT man/HMRC.
I recently tried to reclaim tax due from a drawing from my pension fund, about £4k. Got messed about by HMRC who quite clearly left it to tick boxing oiks to deal with, and three months after getting nowhere on a refund that should take about 3 weeks, I passed it to my accountant to sort out. it took her three calls over two further weeks, but the final call to the HMRC went something along the lines of "Right, stop speaking! I'm fed up talking to you lot about this. It's my client's money. He's asking for it back. He's entitled to it. Pay it to him NOW or we will be taking action". Cheque received within the week!
Incidentally, my accountant also told me that HMRC seems to be in an administrative meltdown, with goodness knows how many of her clients being jerked about over tax refunds, e.g. refunds approved and funds in a holding account awaiting release, but no confirmation sent to claimants. The claimants had to chase before the money was released!
Of course, every day money that the HMRC is not entitled to still sits in their account earns them money. I asked for interest from HMRC on that £4k at 8% pa, which is what they would charge me if I was late in paying tax to them,but was told "well that's not the waya it works sir..." |  | | |
| VAT office help wanted on 19:54 - Nov 22 with 1588 views | RamseyR |
Worth noting that HMRC are very slow at turning round queries.
I sent a very detailed question to a specialist VAT unit (Opt to tax). It took 5 weeks for them to respond telling me I need to fill in a generic query form and send it to the standard VAT people.
It took the standard VAT team a further 6 weeks to tell me I need to direct the query to the specialist Opt to Tax unit, but they will do this on my behalf..
So three months after raising the query.......You couldn't make it up....and I owe them money!!! |  | | |
| VAT office help wanted on 21:31 - Nov 22 with 1539 views | Boston |
VAT....one of the reasons I moved to the USA. In future, run two books. | |
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| VAT office help wanted on 07:42 - Nov 23 with 1474 views | ElHoop |
Ask for 'time to pay' the £15k on the basis that you've set aside all VAT that you were expected to pay annd don't have extra funds. They may then set up the refund to be allocated against the next quarter, when it is processed, and if you've told them in advance you won't get a penalty. Might be better coming from you as you are the guy with the passion here and the feeling of injustice. Just give it to them straight and politely and explain how unfair it is, in a reasonable manner. The number to ring is here:
https://www.gov.uk/difficulties-paying-hmrc |  | | |
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