| Release clauses in contracts 13:51 - Jan 10 with 4515 views | D_Alien |
We know that Dale are willing to accept them, in order to attract the type of talent that's kept us afloat not just in L1 but financially; and then to retain them on contracts such as Ollie Rathbone's 3 year deal
Of course i don't know for certain, but what's the point in getting angsty about whether we'll accept £X for whoever when it's probably a given that they'll leave (if they want to) once a certain amount is on offer?
[Post edited 10 Jan 2020 13:52]
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| Release clauses in contracts on 13:58 - Jan 10 with 3013 views | fitzochris |
Agreed.
The contention is what release clause is agreed at the point of a new contract being signed. It requires a strong negotiator on both sides.
Once that clause is agreed it is immaterial what we think a player is worth. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 13:58]
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| Release clauses in contracts on 14:04 - Jan 10 with 2999 views | jonahwhereru |
I don’t like agents, but with or without them there will always be negotiation on the make up of any contract. I was on the bargaining team for a union that’s negotiated with a big bank. It was all about horse trading and each side being able to satisfy their respective sides. That is the way it works in life, except may be divorce.
Supporters just have to search for the positives and suck up the negatives. The board can’t please all of the people all of the time in these matters .
For what it’s worth at the time I thought we got a great deal for Murray, but subsequent events have shown that I know fcuk all. |  | | |
| Release clauses in contracts on 14:16 - Jan 10 with 2949 views | dingdangblue |
| Release clauses in contracts on 14:04 - Jan 10 by jonahwhereru |
I don’t like agents, but with or without them there will always be negotiation on the make up of any contract. I was on the bargaining team for a union that’s negotiated with a big bank. It was all about horse trading and each side being able to satisfy their respective sides. That is the way it works in life, except may be divorce.
Supporters just have to search for the positives and suck up the negatives. The board can’t please all of the people all of the time in these matters .
For what it’s worth at the time I thought we got a great deal for Murray, but subsequent events have shown that I know fcuk all. |
I always remember about 2-3 weeks after Murray left Brighton were already saying what a player he was and they'd got themselves a massive bargain. Although he won them promotion he ended up shafting them and leaving on a free to Palace. Although we didn't get any sell on I think they had to pay us some more money for getting promoted - even though he left. |  |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 14:27 - Jan 10 with 2931 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Release clauses in contracts on 14:16 - Jan 10 by dingdangblue |
I always remember about 2-3 weeks after Murray left Brighton were already saying what a player he was and they'd got themselves a massive bargain. Although he won them promotion he ended up shafting them and leaving on a free to Palace. Although we didn't get any sell on I think they had to pay us some more money for getting promoted - even though he left. |
He scored 54 goals for them in 118 games.
He served his contract with them brilliantly.
He then signed for them again on a free and has thus far scored 33 goals in 90 odd games (all in Prem). He is again serving his contract brilliantly and is arguably the reason for their survival in the Prem.
Brighton have done exceptionally well out of Glen Murray.
Can we be shafted like that please. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 14:28]
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| Release clauses in contracts on 14:32 - Jan 10 with 2895 views | tony_roch975 |
| Release clauses in contracts on 13:58 - Jan 10 by fitzochris |
Agreed.
The contention is what release clause is agreed at the point of a new contract being signed. It requires a strong negotiator on both sides.
Once that clause is agreed it is immaterial what we think a player is worth. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 13:58]
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it might be the contention but we are on a hiding to nothing - we need to sign the player, they don't need to sign for us (at the bottom end of the wage scale in the EFL) and the only reason they might is cos we will offer them a low release fee clause. | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 14:37 - Jan 10 with 2871 views | dingdangblue |
| Release clauses in contracts on 14:27 - Jan 10 by BigDaveMyCock |
He scored 54 goals for them in 118 games.
He served his contract with them brilliantly.
He then signed for them again on a free and has thus far scored 33 goals in 90 odd games (all in Prem). He is again serving his contract brilliantly and is arguably the reason for their survival in the Prem.
Brighton have done exceptionally well out of Glen Murray.
Can we be shafted like that please. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 14:28]
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Obviously you have hindsight on your side - I'm sure if you asked Palace at the time he first left they wouldn't be too happy it was a free transfer. | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 14:41 - Jan 10 with 2855 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Release clauses in contracts on 14:37 - Jan 10 by dingdangblue |
Obviously you have hindsight on your side - I'm sure if you asked Palace at the time he first left they wouldn't be too happy it was a free transfer. |
He only left Palace once, I presume you mean Brighton?
I repeat, he scored 54 goals for them in 118 games. Exemplary service in my book.
A player is not obliged to sign another contract, just as a club is not obliged to offer one. Can’t have it both ways. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 14:45]
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| Release clauses in contracts on 14:49 - Jan 10 with 2829 views | Cleedale |
Obviously we can't stand in anyone's footballing progression especially with the potential release clauses mentioned.
Just hope we won't be thinning (even more) what's been a very threadbare squad in respect to injuries etc. and that we're ready to invest to retain our league 1 status; surely the main priority? | | | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 14:52 - Jan 10 with 2815 views | dingdangblue |
| Release clauses in contracts on 14:41 - Jan 10 by BigDaveMyCock |
He only left Palace once, I presume you mean Brighton?
I repeat, he scored 54 goals for them in 118 games. Exemplary service in my book.
A player is not obliged to sign another contract, just as a club is not obliged to offer one. Can’t have it both ways. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 14:45]
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Yes Brighton sorry. | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 14:58 - Jan 10 with 2796 views | fitzochris |
| Release clauses in contracts on 14:32 - Jan 10 by tony_roch975 |
it might be the contention but we are on a hiding to nothing - we need to sign the player, they don't need to sign for us (at the bottom end of the wage scale in the EFL) and the only reason they might is cos we will offer them a low release fee clause. |
That’s not always the case. Players such as Holt, Dagnall, Lambert et al saw us as a positive step away from their current situation. We aren’t always the last stop before oblivion. | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 15:39 - Jan 10 with 2695 views | tony_roch975 |
| Release clauses in contracts on 14:58 - Jan 10 by fitzochris |
That’s not always the case. Players such as Holt, Dagnall, Lambert et al saw us as a positive step away from their current situation. We aren’t always the last stop before oblivion. |
that's more than a dozen years ago - we didn't have a history of release clauses & add-ons in player sales then, we've become far less competitive financially in the meantime and the likes of Holt and Lambert would now be getting scooped up in the big boys fish-net | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 15:58 - Jan 10 with 2634 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Release clauses in contracts on 15:39 - Jan 10 by tony_roch975 |
that's more than a dozen years ago - we didn't have a history of release clauses & add-ons in player sales then, we've become far less competitive financially in the meantime and the likes of Holt and Lambert would now be getting scooped up in the big boys fish-net |
Didn’t we make add-on money when Lambert went to Liverpool- which was a number of moves down the line. | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 16:00 - Jan 10 with 2621 views | fitzochris |
| Release clauses in contracts on 15:39 - Jan 10 by tony_roch975 |
that's more than a dozen years ago - we didn't have a history of release clauses & add-ons in player sales then, we've become far less competitive financially in the meantime and the likes of Holt and Lambert would now be getting scooped up in the big boys fish-net |
Would they? Nobody knew who Holt was before he started scoring goals for us. Same goes for most others.
I think to paint a picture of us being some kind of last resort is a little unfair.
Yes, we are a small fish in the four professional divisions, but players don't sign for us with one arm bent up their back. | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 16:03 - Jan 10 with 2611 views | Cleedale |
| Release clauses in contracts on 15:58 - Jan 10 by BigDaveMyCock |
Didn’t we make add-on money when Lambert went to Liverpool- which was a number of moves down the line. |
I think Lambert made more money? for The Dale than just about any other player re-add-ons etc.
Wonder whether we got extra for him playing for England...and scoring! | | | |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:18 - Jan 10 with 2563 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| Release clauses in contracts on 13:58 - Jan 10 by fitzochris |
Agreed.
The contention is what release clause is agreed at the point of a new contract being signed. It requires a strong negotiator on both sides.
Once that clause is agreed it is immaterial what we think a player is worth. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 13:58]
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Am I missing something but in our case why have a release clause at all? The world & his mate all know that Dale always has & always will be a selling club. As long as the agent & the player know that the club won’t stand in the way of a player’s development then treat every potential transfer on its own merits. |  | | |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:22 - Jan 10 with 2551 views | davidab2202 |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:03 - Jan 10 by Cleedale |
I think Lambert made more money? for The Dale than just about any other player re-add-ons etc.
Wonder whether we got extra for him playing for England...and scoring! |
if someone had the foresight to add that sort of clause in a transfer to Bristol Rovers,then whoever put it in there was wasting his time being at Spotland | | | |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:22 - Jan 10 with 2548 views | D_Alien |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:18 - Jan 10 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Am I missing something but in our case why have a release clause at all? The world & his mate all know that Dale always has & always will be a selling club. As long as the agent & the player know that the club won’t stand in the way of a player’s development then treat every potential transfer on its own merits. |
Would you hand over the keys to a house you were selling because you "know" the buyer will pay up, because they did last time they bought a house? | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 16:31 - Jan 10 with 2515 views | fitzochris |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:18 - Jan 10 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Am I missing something but in our case why have a release clause at all? The world & his mate all know that Dale always has & always will be a selling club. As long as the agent & the player know that the club won’t stand in the way of a player’s development then treat every potential transfer on its own merits. |
In a business awash with cash and double-dealing, a gentlemen's agreement seems a little out of place. | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 16:54 - Jan 10 with 2464 views | tony_roch975 |
| Release clauses in contracts on 15:58 - Jan 10 by BigDaveMyCock |
Didn’t we make add-on money when Lambert went to Liverpool- which was a number of moves down the line. |
exactly - Lambert was I believe the first add-ons sale (well done Colin Garlick), we "didn't have a history" of doing it so players & their agents hadn't sussed out pushing us for a low release clause - now they have. | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 16:54 - Jan 10 with 2464 views | isitme |
Without the reasonable release clauses the players would not sign. The pitch is play for Dale on a lower wage, put yourself in the shop window and earn your big move. Oh and your transfer fee wont be that high to disuade potential suiters. Rinse and then repeat.
As others have said, which of our recent sales have gone on to do that much? |  | | |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:55 - Jan 10 with 2462 views | Cleedale |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:22 - Jan 10 by davidab2202 |
if someone had the foresight to add that sort of clause in a transfer to Bristol Rovers,then whoever put it in there was wasting his time being at Spotland |
Possibly.
But wasn't the Stephen Bywater sale to WHU dependent on several add-on clauses and that was a good few years before Lambert turned up from Stockport.
Not sure when Colin Garlick's employment started at Dale but always got the impression he knew his stuff; in his own way. | | | |
| Release clauses in contracts on 17:08 - Jan 10 with 2424 views | 49thseason |
| Release clauses in contracts on 16:22 - Jan 10 by D_Alien |
Would you hand over the keys to a house you were selling because you "know" the buyer will pay up, because they did last time they bought a house? |
You would hope that a release clause might change over time to reflect wages and number of games played. So that the value of the clause increases as more games are played and / or wages are increased. This would ensure that the release value of a player reflected his value to the team (appearances) and what he has cost the club in wages. The club could easily develop a formula that could be put into new contracts which reflected the situation at the point of signing i.e. a young unproven talent and which would produce a larger sum at the point at which the player was sold assuming he was 2 or 3 years older and an established team asset.
Selling a player like Rathbone at a price which was put in his contract when he first signed after him playing say 75 or 100 first team games would be just daft. Its not hard to reduce a fee if everyone is agreeable, much harder to ask for more than the contract states when written 2 or 3 years ago. |  | | |
| Release clauses in contracts on 17:11 - Jan 10 with 2409 views | D_Alien |
| Release clauses in contracts on 17:08 - Jan 10 by 49thseason |
You would hope that a release clause might change over time to reflect wages and number of games played. So that the value of the clause increases as more games are played and / or wages are increased. This would ensure that the release value of a player reflected his value to the team (appearances) and what he has cost the club in wages. The club could easily develop a formula that could be put into new contracts which reflected the situation at the point of signing i.e. a young unproven talent and which would produce a larger sum at the point at which the player was sold assuming he was 2 or 3 years older and an established team asset.
Selling a player like Rathbone at a price which was put in his contract when he first signed after him playing say 75 or 100 first team games would be just daft. Its not hard to reduce a fee if everyone is agreeable, much harder to ask for more than the contract states when written 2 or 3 years ago. |
Sounds sensible | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 18:09 - Jan 10 with 2290 views | dingdangblue |
| Release clauses in contracts on 17:08 - Jan 10 by 49thseason |
You would hope that a release clause might change over time to reflect wages and number of games played. So that the value of the clause increases as more games are played and / or wages are increased. This would ensure that the release value of a player reflected his value to the team (appearances) and what he has cost the club in wages. The club could easily develop a formula that could be put into new contracts which reflected the situation at the point of signing i.e. a young unproven talent and which would produce a larger sum at the point at which the player was sold assuming he was 2 or 3 years older and an established team asset.
Selling a player like Rathbone at a price which was put in his contract when he first signed after him playing say 75 or 100 first team games would be just daft. Its not hard to reduce a fee if everyone is agreeable, much harder to ask for more than the contract states when written 2 or 3 years ago. |
There are the odd exception but generally most players we have that aren't teenagers are only given 2 year contracts anyway. So after 1 season you are either trying to offer them a new deal or trying to sell him before they leave on a free transfer! | |
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| Release clauses in contracts on 20:15 - Jan 10 with 2145 views | 49thseason |
| Release clauses in contracts on 18:09 - Jan 10 by dingdangblue |
There are the odd exception but generally most players we have that aren't teenagers are only given 2 year contracts anyway. So after 1 season you are either trying to offer them a new deal or trying to sell him before they leave on a free transfer! |
All true but the sell on clause still reflects value at the start of the contract when no one can be sure how well the player will perform, three transfer windows later a players value might still be much greater than initially thought. So the sliding scale can still apply . If the player has not lived up to expectations the contract would not have escalated his value and he could leave for free. If however a good offer does come in before the end of the contract, the sliding scale applies and the fee is appropriate to his performances for the club. Its entirely possible that a player signing a first contract could play 90 -100 games within a 2 year contract period, the club deserves a reward that is consistent with that opportunity. Additionally, there is now a basis for a negotiation on a transfer fee, down from the contracted amount, if required to get a deal done. But at least the starting point is an agreed reflection of current value, not an arbitrary figure set on day one of the contract which may be derisory 2 years down the road.
The problem of players leaving the club for nothing at the end of a contract is an altogether different discussion... Mendez-Laing being a notable example. | | | |
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