| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... 08:16 - Feb 14 with 24055 views | Lohengrin |
Kick back and chill out, mun. Have a day off FFS! 
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:24 - Feb 17 with 2637 views | GehbeHindert_Bosman |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 18:26 - Feb 16 by Lohengrin |
Lisa, I'm sure you know enough about the history of inter-communal relations on the subcontinent, especially the period between the ending of the Raj and Partition, to know that "in India, Moslems live quite happily alongside Hindus and Christians and have for ever" is simply not the case. |
Exhibit A m'lud....
The Bengali Massacres of the early 70s in Bangladesh... |  | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:39 - Feb 17 with 2607 views | Kerouac |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 20:51 - Feb 17 by trampie |
I thought you wasn't going to impose our ways on people overseas when I questioned you now your talking about every country where Islam is dominant, which is not here so is overseas, you said you would fight now you are saying you will talk.
You are full of sh*t Kerouac. |
Explaining shit to you is a bit like teaching nursery children. Only instead of experiencing some delight either by seeing the world through their eyes or watching them develop and learn....you just suck the fukking life out of me.
I haven't got time for the following;
Yes, we only have a minority of Muslims.
In other countries where it is the dominant religion those minorities are routinely persecuted.
Which is why I am arguing that we discourage Islam here, pronto.
I haven't once advocated invading Muslim countries. NOT ONCE.
There are (obviously) many ways to fight the growth of extreme religious ideology .
A good start would be a plan, a clear strategy for reducing the Islamic share of our population, reducing the power of all religion in our country. No religious schools for anybody would be a good start. No public money going to any organization with religious affinities. An inquiry into corruption in local politics with consequences, reform of the postal ballot system ensure that those who want to post their vote either have to produce evidence of a medical condition or be temporarily out of the country, stopping the flow of Saudi money to build mosques, rooting out the worst of the preachers.
Apply this stuff across the board, same rules for all religions. I don't care if it makes religious people in general uncomfortable.
....but yes Tramp, if it comes to it I am prepared to fight and kill people to preserve your freedom.
Looking forward to the next installment of....Trampie makes a proper kunt of himself, again. |  |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:46 - Feb 17 with 2601 views | GehbeHindert_Bosman |
I'm off to the Pictures tomorrow night to watch the hilarious religious parody by Monty Snakebasket called "Life of Mo Achmed"...
Looking forward to the stoning scene in particular... Just hope when I offer the Burka'd up chick next to me some popcorn it doesn't happen for real...
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:49 - Feb 17 with 2590 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:46 - Feb 17 by GehbeHindert_Bosman |
I'm off to the Pictures tomorrow night to watch the hilarious religious parody by Monty Snakebasket called "Life of Mo Achmed"...
Looking forward to the stoning scene in particular... Just hope when I offer the Burka'd up chick next to me some popcorn it doesn't happen for real...
😳 |
Ironically of course a film that was banned in Swansea as I recall.
Us bloody chapel loving fundamentalist Welsh eh? |  | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:51 - Feb 17 with 2584 views | GehbeHindert_Bosman |
Banned in Swansea??
Good Lord ...
Out of my depth on here and no mistake....😉 | | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:58 - Feb 17 with 2592 views | trampie |
So Kerouac are you saying you don't want Muslims here but you are happy to have other 'foreign' religious groups , groups that might put another country before ours ? [Post edited 17 Feb 2016 23:03]
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 22:05 - Feb 17 with 2586 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:51 - Feb 17 by GehbeHindert_Bosman |
Banned in Swansea??
Good Lord ...
Out of my depth on here and no mistake....😉 |
Banned for 18 years - the ban was only lifted in 1998 (I just checked when it ended).
So maybe, just maybe, all religions take a lot of things far too seriously and yet time moves on and people change, encouraged by new generations. | | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 22:10 - Feb 17 with 2578 views | Lohengrin |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 22:05 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
Banned for 18 years - the ban was only lifted in 1998 (I just checked when it ended).
So maybe, just maybe, all religions take a lot of things far too seriously and yet time moves on and people change, encouraged by new generations. |
The problem with that scenario, Lisa, is that so far as the UK is concerned since the '60s each generation of moslems has been more radical than the last. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 22:10 - Feb 17 with 2578 views | GehbeHindert_Bosman |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 22:05 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
Banned for 18 years - the ban was only lifted in 1998 (I just checked when it ended).
So maybe, just maybe, all religions take a lot of things far too seriously and yet time moves on and people change, encouraged by new generations. |
I. Know. Mun.. 😎
We did have a bit of a giggle watching the local premiere of Twin Town that LOB was still banned...
Tame by comparison... | | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 22:21 - Feb 17 with 2561 views | GehbeHindert_Bosman |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 22:10 - Feb 17 by Lohengrin |
The problem with that scenario, Lisa, is that so far as the UK is concerned since the '60s each generation of moslems has been more radical than the last. |
....and this is the crux of the argument and one the mainstream press always seeks to supress....deliberately. | | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 23:32 - Feb 17 with 2519 views | Kerouac |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:58 - Feb 17 by trampie |
So Kerouac are you saying you don't want Muslims here but you are happy to have other 'foreign' religious groups , groups that might put another country before ours ? [Post edited 17 Feb 2016 23:03]
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I'm saying I'm happy to take anyone who we can accommodate and employ and who is coming here in good faith to be part of a tolerant culture...respect our laws, respect our parliament, respect our way of life etc.
They can live here in freedom, practice their religion, not to be told what to think/say/do (as long as they obey the law)....and in return I expect them to respect everybody else here, not to tell people what they can think/say/do, respect our system of government and the people who work for the public institutions (police/army etc.)
Now, a lot of Muslims fit in to this description....however, there is ALWAYS a portion of any Islamic community who doesn't fit into the category of citizens I'm describing above.
The larger the community gets the larger the number of citizens who don't fit my description.
...and then, as others have mentioned, you have the following generations that increase the size of the community overall.
I fancy the second/third/fourth generations are more likely to produce a greater number of extremists because of a kind of cognitive dissonance.
The first generation grow up in a culture where it is likely that everybody is similar and also hold Islamic beliefs.
When they emigrate they are making a choice. They have an idea of what life it is that they are choosing.
they know that if things go wrong they can return to their home country.
The generations that follow though are experiencing 2 cultures simultaneously from the get go. It will be all they've ever known.
- At home they are brought up in an Islamic culture.
At the Mosque they are brainwashed from a young age (as happens in all religions), taught that Islam is supreme, that Mohammed, his laws and his prophecy is perfect and that non-believers are inferior and have very little to offer.
- At school and in their wider communities they rub up against a different culture, the culture of the infidels, what is wrong in Islamic culture is right in Western culture (and vice versa).
I'd wager this is both confusing and psychologically damaging to some people.
It creates cognitive dissonance.
In order to relieve the confusion and find a safe mental sanctuary people turn further towards religion. Everything is safe and clear there. Now the world is black and white and easy to understand, there is no grey areas in Islam. You are for Islam and against everything else.
Everyone who isn't a Muslim must either be converted or defeated.
You have a purpose.
More extremists are created by this culture clash.
This is why I think Islam in particular is incompatible with our society and I wish to limit it. [Post edited 17 Feb 2016 23:35]
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 23:55 - Feb 17 with 2499 views | perchrockjack |
I wish I d written what Kerouac has just.
He will be seen as a racist by many.
I would suggest given the low level of Muslims in Swansea then its denizens aren't really best qualified to comment on what is staring us in the face. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 23:57 - Feb 17 with 2497 views | Banosswan |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 23:55 - Feb 17 by perchrockjack |
I wish I d written what Kerouac has just.
He will be seen as a racist by many.
I would suggest given the low level of Muslims in Swansea then its denizens aren't really best qualified to comment on what is staring us in the face. |
Not low anymore perch |  |
| Ever since my son was... never conceived, because I've never had consensual sex without money involved... I've always kind of looked at you as... a thing, that I could live next to... in accordance with state laws. | | Poll: | How do you like your steak? |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 00:00 - Feb 18 with 2493 views | perchrockjack |
Relative to many parts of the uk it is.
No issue on Wirral but in other parts of the north west ,it is | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 12:59 - Feb 18 with 2415 views | Badgeman |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 20:23 - Feb 17 by Kerouac |
I take what you say about India from your first hand experience....but the fact remains there only is a Pakistan because of the Islamic invasion and mass genocide in India.
The 2 states are mortal enemies because India has learned it's lesson about Islam the hard way. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_India%E2%80%93Pakistan_standoff
Hindus are 80% of the Indian population, Muslims are 14%.
From Wiki;
"In the last 60 years after the Indian independence and partition, the Muslims in India have preferential treatment with their own Muslim Personal Law. Communal tensions between the Hindus and the Muslims have erupted many a times during this period. Notable incidents of this phenomenon include the demolition of the Babri Masjid (believed to have been built on the sacred site of a demolished temple marking the birthplace of Lord RÄma) and the Gujarat Riots of 2002. The Gujarat violence of 2002 is significant for recording the highest annual death toll in any event of Hindu-Muslim violence in a single state in the history of independent India: 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus were killed[111] following the murder of 59 innocent Hindu passengers allegedly by Muslim youths on a train near Godhra on 27 February. The incident that spurred the violence was when the Sabarmati Express train was attacked at Godhra allegedly by a Muslim mob[112][113] as per a preplanned conspiracy.[114] 58 Hindu pilgrims, including 25 women and 15 children, returning from Ayodhya, were killed in the attack. This incident is not an isolated incident in the Gujarat state, in other states in India, especially in rural area violence between Muslims and Hindus is a common occurrence, that can result in fatalities"
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-cant-hindus-and-muslims-get-along-togeth |
I'm not here to pick an internet fight with you but your assertions that the problems within the Asian subcontinent are largely exacerbated due to the inflammatory nature of Muslims is simply wrong. You spoke briefly about the Partition of India in 1947.
The Partition in 1947 was a defining event for the region, much in the same way that the Holocaust has been for Jews. It has altered the perceptions of race, religion, and identity for those who have heritage there for the past, present and future. To look upon the partition and remark "typical Muslims, causing violence everywhere" is to completely fail to grasp any historical context of the region.
Britains exit was clumsy, to say the least. Our history of violence, rape and pillage in the region is a shameful chapter in our history. I'm amazed that it's one that isn't recited more often, lest we forget the disgusting atrocities we committed on the Asian subcontinent. While Lisa's assertion that the region was peaceful was stretching the truth a little bit, the fact that sectarian violence in the region was encouraged under British rule cannot be disregarded. We took communities that had co-existed in relative peace and turned them against each other as part of our policy of divide and rule in India. There are plenty of instances in history where Hindus and Muslims have mixed culturally. For example, The Sufi in Punjab blended their beliefs with their Hindu counterparts. This was a region that would go on to experience some of the worst violence seen during the Partition.
The partition was born out of a complex political struggle, which left anywhere between 500 000 and 2 000 000 million people dead with a further 14 000 000 displaced. Unspeakable atrocities occurred on both sides and to be honest, I find it tasteless and disgusting that people might try and use it as an example to denigrate one section of society to reaffirm their own assumptions. It's a shame that people might wish to use the victims of genocide, rape violence, and unspeakable horror to score such points. Deep scars have been left and it's a prism for which religion, culture and identity is now distorted. We may never see the region recover from it. |  |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:11 - Feb 18 with 2397 views | Lohengrin |
Damn that tiny handful of British administrators that caused some 350,000,0000 natives to go loco. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:13 - Feb 18 with 2390 views | LeonisGod |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 22:21 - Feb 17 by GehbeHindert_Bosman |
....and this is the crux of the argument and one the mainstream press always seeks to supress....deliberately. |
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The mainstream press actually love stories about radicalised muslims. They do nothing but stir up anti feelings. |  | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:14 - Feb 18 with 2390 views | Badgeman |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:11 - Feb 18 by Lohengrin |
Damn that tiny handful of British administrators that caused some 350,000,0000 natives to go loco. |
It's a massively complex issue. Our actions helped to massively destabilise a previously coexisting and evolving culture. The regression since the Partition has been alarming but I'm sure it's just that these brown savages aren't capable of living together like good, civilised white folk. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:17 - Feb 18 with 2389 views | Lohengrin |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:14 - Feb 18 by Badgeman |
It's a massively complex issue. Our actions helped to massively destabilise a previously coexisting and evolving culture. The regression since the Partition has been alarming but I'm sure it's just that these brown savages aren't capable of living together like good, civilised white folk. |
And what actions would they have been? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:30 - Feb 18 with 2375 views | Aquinas |
The funny thing about Muslims is that they are more than happy to fight for minority rights when they are in the minority.
But in countries where Islam is the dominant religion there are no minority rights. |  | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:36 - Feb 18 with 2359 views | LeonisGod |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 18:55 - Feb 16 by londonlisa2001 |
My post may have lacked clarification about my meaning to be fair.
I should have clarified to note I am talking about Moslems and Hindus within India, not India and Pakistan. I also should clarify to point out I am also talking about orinary people rather than political leaders etc - in India there is a huge difference in those two things.
It always amazes me when in India quite how well the groups mix quite happily and without friction. What the so called leaders do in Delhi, Mumbai, Lahore and Islamabad is a completely different matter. |
As long as you keep clear of Gujurat that is. The caste system causes far more issues in my experience | | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:47 - Feb 18 with 2342 views | Badgeman |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:17 - Feb 18 by Lohengrin |
And what actions would they have been? |
We promoted sectarian divisions within communities that had not previously held such beliefs. I'm delving back a bit but a few examples I can think of are:
Divide et Impera. We segregated army regiments in a manner that was divisive and provocative to those serving as well as those where troops were stationed. We also encouraged the role of religion in politics via the concept of separate electorates. The effect of this can still be seen today in India.
Our divide and rule policies have left a disastrous legacy in India in Pakistan.
I'd recommend this journal article from Science and Society. It's a bit old to say the least but it's the best thing I could find for free on t'internet.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/40400043?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:51 - Feb 18 with 2339 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:36 - Feb 18 by LeonisGod |
As long as you keep clear of Gujurat that is. The caste system causes far more issues in my experience |
I've not been to Gujarat so that may well be the case. I've always been genuinely surprised though at how well the ordinary people on both sides of the religious divide muddle along happily when I've been in India.
Gujarat's situation of course was awful with the sectarian violence that happened after the Godhra train incident and Modi's role in that was one that a lot of people were still talking about when I was there a few weeks ago (it was the first time I'd been since his election). The people I was chatting with said they were genuinely concerned at the violence that is now happening with the BJP.
Rarely reported here of course. This thread's title is a good indication of the issues - the strict Hindu leaders called for the banning of Valentines Day celebrations in India in exactly the same way as the Moslem leaders did in Pakistan and yet we don't hear about that. The ordinary people on both sides happily ignore them and celebrate pretty much everything at every possible opportunity. As I said, they were all very happily celebrating Christmas. [Post edited 18 Feb 2016 13:51]
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:00 - Feb 18 with 2323 views | Flashberryjack |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 23:32 - Feb 17 by Kerouac |
I'm saying I'm happy to take anyone who we can accommodate and employ and who is coming here in good faith to be part of a tolerant culture...respect our laws, respect our parliament, respect our way of life etc.
They can live here in freedom, practice their religion, not to be told what to think/say/do (as long as they obey the law)....and in return I expect them to respect everybody else here, not to tell people what they can think/say/do, respect our system of government and the people who work for the public institutions (police/army etc.)
Now, a lot of Muslims fit in to this description....however, there is ALWAYS a portion of any Islamic community who doesn't fit into the category of citizens I'm describing above.
The larger the community gets the larger the number of citizens who don't fit my description.
...and then, as others have mentioned, you have the following generations that increase the size of the community overall.
I fancy the second/third/fourth generations are more likely to produce a greater number of extremists because of a kind of cognitive dissonance.
The first generation grow up in a culture where it is likely that everybody is similar and also hold Islamic beliefs.
When they emigrate they are making a choice. They have an idea of what life it is that they are choosing.
they know that if things go wrong they can return to their home country.
The generations that follow though are experiencing 2 cultures simultaneously from the get go. It will be all they've ever known.
- At home they are brought up in an Islamic culture.
At the Mosque they are brainwashed from a young age (as happens in all religions), taught that Islam is supreme, that Mohammed, his laws and his prophecy is perfect and that non-believers are inferior and have very little to offer.
- At school and in their wider communities they rub up against a different culture, the culture of the infidels, what is wrong in Islamic culture is right in Western culture (and vice versa).
I'd wager this is both confusing and psychologically damaging to some people.
It creates cognitive dissonance.
In order to relieve the confusion and find a safe mental sanctuary people turn further towards religion. Everything is safe and clear there. Now the world is black and white and easy to understand, there is no grey areas in Islam. You are for Islam and against everything else.
Everyone who isn't a Muslim must either be converted or defeated.
You have a purpose.
More extremists are created by this culture clash.
This is why I think Islam in particular is incompatible with our society and I wish to limit it. [Post edited 17 Feb 2016 23:35]
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Agree with this, unfortunately that makes me an islamaphobic or a racist in some peoples eyes, [Post edited 18 Feb 2016 14:49]
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:01 - Feb 18 with 2322 views | trampie |
Its a mystery why some people would fight [and talk for] for some foreign religious groups but deride other foreign religious groups. | |
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