| Leanne is stepping down. on 07:09 - Jun 15 with 1515 views | Kerouac |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 23:56 - Jun 14 by trampie |
Virtually half the population in Wales voted remain, if all those people vote for Plaid because they were pro remain then Plaid will win the next Assembly election. |
These powers that are coming back to Wales, some of them after a period of being held at Westminster...the ones Plaid are getting their knickers in a twist about and are trying to drum up anger/resentment about;
"...but I don't trust the Tories to give them back"
"It's undemocratic!"
etc.
Am I right in thinking that the Plaid master plan is to persuade us Welsh people to vote for Plaid, vote for "Independence", in order that Plaid can give those powers back to Brussels ?!?!?
Seems to me that a party for "independence" should be pro-Brexit.
Do you honestly think anyone is buying the Plaid horse sh*t? |  |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 07:33 - Jun 15 with 1496 views | trampie |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 01:32 - Jun 15 by BarrySwan |
Leanne Wood = National embarrassment
Cringeworthy comment of the night, telling John Mann 'This is Wales'
Yes the Wales that voted to leave, the Wales that Leanne Wood is so out of touch with that she had no idea that Wales might well vote out.
I hope that she stays plaid leader for ever, she's perfect for the role. [Post edited 15 Jun 2018 1:34]
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All the major parties stood for 'remain' with the Conservatives officially 'neutral' with the UK Government politicians like Prime Minister Cameron and new Prime Minister May all backing 'remain'.
'Remain' spent most of the time in the lead in opinion polls in Wales.
Lots of Plaid areas voted 'remain'.
The vote was so close that if one party stands as a pro European party and all the others don't [basically switching sides to align with 51% of voters] then since the 'leave' vote will be split between lots of parties and half of the electorate that voted 'remain' vote for a party that is pro Europe that party will romp the next election, im not saying things will work like that but that is a line of thinking and there is a lot of upside being a pro European party when all your rivals aren't and in Plaids case lots of their supporters are pro Europe anyway.
After the vote, being pro Europe does not necessarily mean campaigning to get back in but wanting a soft Brexit and maintaining as close ties as possible to Europe. [Post edited 15 Jun 2018 7:50]
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 07:37 - Jun 15 with 1487 views | Kerouac |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 07:33 - Jun 15 by trampie |
All the major parties stood for 'remain' with the Conservatives officially 'neutral' with the UK Government politicians like Prime Minister Cameron and new Prime Minister May all backing 'remain'.
'Remain' spent most of the time in the lead in opinion polls in Wales.
Lots of Plaid areas voted 'remain'.
The vote was so close that if one party stands as a pro European party and all the others don't [basically switching sides to align with 51% of voters] then since the 'leave' vote will be split between lots of parties and half of the electorate that voted 'remain' vote for a party that is pro Europe that party will romp the next election, im not saying things will work like that but that is a line of thinking and there is a lot of upside being a pro European party when all your rivals aren't and in Plaids case lots of their supporters are pro Europe anyway.
After the vote, being pro Europe does not necessarily mean campaigning to get back in but wanting a soft Brexit and maintaining as close ties as possible to Europe. [Post edited 15 Jun 2018 7:50]
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Answer the bloody question.
Does Plaid intend to hand those powers back to Brussels? [Post edited 15 Jun 2018 7:39]
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 07:48 - Jun 15 with 1474 views | trampie |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 07:37 - Jun 15 by Kerouac |
Answer the bloody question.
Does Plaid intend to hand those powers back to Brussels? [Post edited 15 Jun 2018 7:39]
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I wasn't replying to your post, if I had been I would have used the 'quote' function.
Plaid would be keeping those powers for Wales, whether within the UK state or an independent Wales, any powers ever going back to the EU would depend on the will of the people wanting to go back into the EU at some point in the future. | |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:04 - Jun 15 with 1449 views | Kerouac |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 07:48 - Jun 15 by trampie |
I wasn't replying to your post, if I had been I would have used the 'quote' function.
Plaid would be keeping those powers for Wales, whether within the UK state or an independent Wales, any powers ever going back to the EU would depend on the will of the people wanting to go back into the EU at some point in the future. |
How dishonest.
Plaid are for Independence and joining the EU.
They are implicitly FOR handing those powers back to Brussels...
all the while they make out it is such an injustice that a small portion of those powers are kept under Westminster's competence for the duration of the transition period (in order that new trade deals can be negotiated efficiently)...and they have the GALL to claim that the Tories can't be trusted! | |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:14 - Jun 15 with 1434 views | trampie |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:04 - Jun 15 by Kerouac |
How dishonest.
Plaid are for Independence and joining the EU.
They are implicitly FOR handing those powers back to Brussels...
all the while they make out it is such an injustice that a small portion of those powers are kept under Westminster's competence for the duration of the transition period (in order that new trade deals can be negotiated efficiently)...and they have the GALL to claim that the Tories can't be trusted! |
All the major parties are pro Europe and the leadership of the Conservatives, if the political classes think we would be better off in the EU then that is what they think, in case you don't know - the Lib-Dems are pro EU. | |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:24 - Jun 15 with 1424 views | johnlangy |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:04 - Jun 15 by Kerouac |
How dishonest.
Plaid are for Independence and joining the EU.
They are implicitly FOR handing those powers back to Brussels...
all the while they make out it is such an injustice that a small portion of those powers are kept under Westminster's competence for the duration of the transition period (in order that new trade deals can be negotiated efficiently)...and they have the GALL to claim that the Tories can't be trusted! |
I don't understand Kerouac.
If Wales was to become independent and a case was put for Wales to join the EU there would have to be a referendum. And, presumably, Plaid would argue the case for a yes vote.
And we'd rejoin if the Welsh people say yes.
What's dishonest about that ? It would be our choice whether to pass any powers to the EU, not Plaid's. |  | | |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:30 - Jun 15 with 1415 views | trampie |
I see people on social media are pointing out that Leanne was the only Welsh person on QT last night which was held in Wales. 
Same old Beeb.  | |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:37 - Jun 15 with 1399 views | Joe_bradshaw |
The problem for Plaid with their independence in Europe policy is the attitude of the EU itself.
Catalan separatists thought that the EU would at least remain neutral in the wake of their Declaration of Independence. In fact, the EU backed Madrid in its hard line crackdown on Catalan leaders.
Would the EU back an independent Wales as a member? The evidence suggests not. Wales would be a net taker from the EU in financial terms and where do we start with the border between Wales and England? |  |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:54 - Jun 15 with 1382 views | trampie |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:37 - Jun 15 by Joe_bradshaw |
The problem for Plaid with their independence in Europe policy is the attitude of the EU itself.
Catalan separatists thought that the EU would at least remain neutral in the wake of their Declaration of Independence. In fact, the EU backed Madrid in its hard line crackdown on Catalan leaders.
Would the EU back an independent Wales as a member? The evidence suggests not. Wales would be a net taker from the EU in financial terms and where do we start with the border between Wales and England? |
The imperialist powers will resist separatist breakaways but once a country has broken away they will allow them in the EU is what I think would happen.
Wales has defined borders.
Out of interest I seen something on the box the other week and an expert guest said something along the lines of UK State/England should pay reparations, now I mention this because previously I was the only person I was aware of saying this, the guy hosting the debate said to the expert 'what all former colonises of the Empire' or words to that effect and the reply from the expert was 'yes'.
I seen it somewhere that Wales would have paid in more into the UK pot for many decades than it took out, when the mines and steelworks were in full production.
The catch 22 is when things are going well lots of people would probably not want to leave the union state, when things are not going so well there might be more support for independence but critics would say 'you cant afford to support yourself'. [Post edited 15 Jun 2018 8:57]
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 09:16 - Jun 15 with 1363 views | trampie |
Other news is :-
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 11:05 - Jun 15 with 1329 views | BarrySwan |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 06:33 - Jun 15 by Kilkennyjack |
So who is your choice fella ? |
Leanne Wood forever, I've just said.
She's perfect for the role of keeping up plaid cymru's record of achieving absolutely diddly squat for almost 100 years now.
God Bless her! | | | |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 11:17 - Jun 15 with 1318 views | moonie |
Clearly Plaid believe the EU will support ,literally, a small country like Wales,in the same way it does Slovenia . Well no, mainly because Slovenia was already a a de facto country that had simply been swallowed up by the rather false Jugoslavia that was ethnically split .
Wales simply has nothing to offer industrially .Its all gone for good.
Wales is reliant on England and the Westminster government for all matters major and constitually.
Wales has an assembly not a government .
Wales will never go independent becasue the people don't want it as opposed to the Irish ,who did. | | | |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 11:24 - Jun 15 with 1317 views | Kerouac |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 08:24 - Jun 15 by johnlangy |
I don't understand Kerouac.
If Wales was to become independent and a case was put for Wales to join the EU there would have to be a referendum. And, presumably, Plaid would argue the case for a yes vote.
And we'd rejoin if the Welsh people say yes.
What's dishonest about that ? It would be our choice whether to pass any powers to the EU, not Plaid's. |
You may not understand but the public do, which is what's important.
Your party argues that Wales should have those powers now, no delay, Westminster can't be trusted...
While simultaneously making the case for giving those powers (...and many, many, more) away to Brussels if we would only vote Plaid.
It makes no sense.
Arguing for leaving a union where we are 3 million of 60, in which we have a devolved parliament and the promise of even more autonomy post-Brexit...in order to join a union of 508 million which is ruled with an iron fist from the centre, in a parliament where we are totally insignificant, where we don't speak the same language and w oils be totally dependent (a supplicant)...
makes no f*cking sense whatsoever.
The strangest form of "independence" imaginable.
The Welsh people know it and the penny has dropped for the Scottish people now also.
It's not Westminster that British people don't trust, it's Brussels.
Plaid are utterly disingenuous. They won't even openly make the argument for independence anymore.
They think they will get there by hoodwinking people.
They have utter contempt for the Welsh people who voted for Brexit and are against breaking up the UK.
Stone.
Cold.
Facts. | |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 11:33 - Jun 15 with 1310 views | moonie |
Not understanding in itself itself is disingenuous .
Leanne did look bett last night and lost some weight off her face .
She has an infortunate voice though and her pedantic ,over emphasis on W aaaaales is grating and rather embarrassing . She does look and sound genuine though, I must say and rather simple ( in non offensive way) but I'm sure the rest of the U.K last night was utterly underwhelmed and went to bed early | | | |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 13:05 - Jun 15 with 1270 views | Kerouac |
Question Time
Handpicked audience, anti government anti-Brexit panel = applause for Plaid's whining about not trusting the Tories to hand back powers coming back from Brussels to Wales; "7 years, 7 years!" (An apparently flabbergasted Leanne Wood)
Then someone sticks their hand up and says "the Welsh people aren't aware of this power grab, we need a bigger Welsh media to get this message out there" (huge applause)
Now, let's imagine a broader Welsh media talking directly to the Welsh people, maybe taking the guise of a TV show on Swansea Bay TV;
Swansea Bay TV Reporter (on the street);
"What do you think about Plaid's complaint that all powers (in devolved areas) returned from Brussels should come direct to the Welsh Assembly as it is Welsh people who should decide on policy for our agriculture sector etc."
Member of the public;
"Yeah, fair enuff, makes sense like"
Reporter;
"But did you know that Leanne Wood wants to leave the UK and join the EU as an 'independent' Wales, and then hand all these powers over to foreign civil servants and politicians in Brussels?"
Joe public;
"You facking wha?!? Has she been on the pop? A bit twp is it?
If she doesn't want those powers what's the big fuss about 'en? Where's the fire?"
Reporter;
"Yes, well, her concern is about whether the Welsh public consent to giving away powers over the Welsh economy"
Joe;
"Who fecking gave them to Brussels in the first bastard place? I didn't give my consent!"
Reporter;
"...anyway, back to the studio where we have more on the Bethan Jenkins pissing in her knickers down an alley off Wind Street story" | |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 13:30 - Jun 15 with 1253 views | swan65split |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 09:46 - Jun 14 by MrSwansea |
Agreed. She should avoid Politics too. |
She should take up teaching English, I would listen to her then (for an old man there is something about her, ) |  | | |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 16:13 - Jun 15 with 1214 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 11:17 - Jun 15 by moonie |
Clearly Plaid believe the EU will support ,literally, a small country like Wales,in the same way it does Slovenia . Well no, mainly because Slovenia was already a a de facto country that had simply been swallowed up by the rather false Jugoslavia that was ethnically split .
Wales simply has nothing to offer industrially .Its all gone for good.
Wales is reliant on England and the Westminster government for all matters major and constitually.
Wales has an assembly not a government .
Wales will never go independent becasue the people don't want it as opposed to the Irish ,who did. |
Right then where to start ...
Wales has been in a ‘rather false’ UK for 800 years.
Wales has never joined the UK. Fact.
Wales has just as many talented young people as any other nation.
Plenty to offer, just like successful Ireland.
Getting away from the extractive Westminster economy will free Wales. Wales has zero prospect to be successful in the UK.
Wales has productive land, renewable power, and water.
Many small countries are very successful with far less.
Yes Wales already has a Government. I am not going to try to explain but you are again totally wrong.
Wales has a choice - an independent wales in the EU, or become Walesshire, England.
Times have changed, Wales will follow Scotland and the north of Ireland out of the failed UK state.
God bless Mrs Wood. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 16:14 - Jun 15 with 1217 views | johnlangy |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 11:24 - Jun 15 by Kerouac |
You may not understand but the public do, which is what's important.
Your party argues that Wales should have those powers now, no delay, Westminster can't be trusted...
While simultaneously making the case for giving those powers (...and many, many, more) away to Brussels if we would only vote Plaid.
It makes no sense.
Arguing for leaving a union where we are 3 million of 60, in which we have a devolved parliament and the promise of even more autonomy post-Brexit...in order to join a union of 508 million which is ruled with an iron fist from the centre, in a parliament where we are totally insignificant, where we don't speak the same language and w oils be totally dependent (a supplicant)...
makes no f*cking sense whatsoever.
The strangest form of "independence" imaginable.
The Welsh people know it and the penny has dropped for the Scottish people now also.
It's not Westminster that British people don't trust, it's Brussels.
Plaid are utterly disingenuous. They won't even openly make the argument for independence anymore.
They think they will get there by hoodwinking people.
They have utter contempt for the Welsh people who voted for Brexit and are against breaking up the UK.
Stone.
Cold.
Facts. |
'You may not understand but the public do, that's what's important.'
Kerouac, I just said it's the public that would decide, not Plaid. | | | |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 16:24 - Jun 15 with 1213 views | Kerouac |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 16:14 - Jun 15 by johnlangy |
'You may not understand but the public do, that's what's important.'
Kerouac, I just said it's the public that would decide, not Plaid. |
The Welsh public have decided.
They voted for Brexit.
You and Plaid may think those powers (the powers that your party are crying public crocodile tears over for political theatre) are in fact not worth having...but the public have decided, at the ballot box, that they are.
The Welsh public is more in favour of political autonomy than Plaid Cymru, the "Independence" party.
How absurd. | |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 16:53 - Jun 15 with 1199 views | johnlangy |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 16:24 - Jun 15 by Kerouac |
The Welsh public have decided.
They voted for Brexit.
You and Plaid may think those powers (the powers that your party are crying public crocodile tears over for political theatre) are in fact not worth having...but the public have decided, at the ballot box, that they are.
The Welsh public is more in favour of political autonomy than Plaid Cymru, the "Independence" party.
How absurd. |
To the rest of you who may read this (not Kerouac).
I'm not going to repeat myself again. It's not worth it. | | | |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 17:04 - Jun 15 with 1194 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 13:05 - Jun 15 by Kerouac |
Question Time
Handpicked audience, anti government anti-Brexit panel = applause for Plaid's whining about not trusting the Tories to hand back powers coming back from Brussels to Wales; "7 years, 7 years!" (An apparently flabbergasted Leanne Wood)
Then someone sticks their hand up and says "the Welsh people aren't aware of this power grab, we need a bigger Welsh media to get this message out there" (huge applause)
Now, let's imagine a broader Welsh media talking directly to the Welsh people, maybe taking the guise of a TV show on Swansea Bay TV;
Swansea Bay TV Reporter (on the street);
"What do you think about Plaid's complaint that all powers (in devolved areas) returned from Brussels should come direct to the Welsh Assembly as it is Welsh people who should decide on policy for our agriculture sector etc."
Member of the public;
"Yeah, fair enuff, makes sense like"
Reporter;
"But did you know that Leanne Wood wants to leave the UK and join the EU as an 'independent' Wales, and then hand all these powers over to foreign civil servants and politicians in Brussels?"
Joe public;
"You facking wha?!? Has she been on the pop? A bit twp is it?
If she doesn't want those powers what's the big fuss about 'en? Where's the fire?"
Reporter;
"Yes, well, her concern is about whether the Welsh public consent to giving away powers over the Welsh economy"
Joe;
"Who fecking gave them to Brussels in the first bastard place? I didn't give my consent!"
Reporter;
"...anyway, back to the studio where we have more on the Bethan Jenkins pissing in her knickers down an alley off Wind Street story" |
They were in ceanarfon weren’t they |  |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 17:08 - Jun 15 with 1189 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 13:05 - Jun 15 by Kerouac |
Question Time
Handpicked audience, anti government anti-Brexit panel = applause for Plaid's whining about not trusting the Tories to hand back powers coming back from Brussels to Wales; "7 years, 7 years!" (An apparently flabbergasted Leanne Wood)
Then someone sticks their hand up and says "the Welsh people aren't aware of this power grab, we need a bigger Welsh media to get this message out there" (huge applause)
Now, let's imagine a broader Welsh media talking directly to the Welsh people, maybe taking the guise of a TV show on Swansea Bay TV;
Swansea Bay TV Reporter (on the street);
"What do you think about Plaid's complaint that all powers (in devolved areas) returned from Brussels should come direct to the Welsh Assembly as it is Welsh people who should decide on policy for our agriculture sector etc."
Member of the public;
"Yeah, fair enuff, makes sense like"
Reporter;
"But did you know that Leanne Wood wants to leave the UK and join the EU as an 'independent' Wales, and then hand all these powers over to foreign civil servants and politicians in Brussels?"
Joe public;
"You facking wha?!? Has she been on the pop? A bit twp is it?
If she doesn't want those powers what's the big fuss about 'en? Where's the fire?"
Reporter;
"Yes, well, her concern is about whether the Welsh public consent to giving away powers over the Welsh economy"
Joe;
"Who fecking gave them to Brussels in the first bastard place? I didn't give my consent!"
Reporter;
"...anyway, back to the studio where we have more on the Bethan Jenkins pissing in her knickers down an alley off Wind Street story" |
You have problem with women (in power?).
It marks you out as an idiot.
Just saying. | |
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| Leanne is stepping down. on 17:12 - Jun 15 with 1185 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Leanne is stepping down. on 16:24 - Jun 15 by Kerouac |
The Welsh public have decided.
They voted for Brexit.
You and Plaid may think those powers (the powers that your party are crying public crocodile tears over for political theatre) are in fact not worth having...but the public have decided, at the ballot box, that they are.
The Welsh public is more in favour of political autonomy than Plaid Cymru, the "Independence" party.
How absurd. |
Yes its absurd.
Thats cos its bollox.
Independent nations across Europe work together in the EU.
There is nothing strange that Wales will be one of them.
It would be strange if the welsh people wanted to live on idiot island for ever and a day with the dim Tory English calling all the shots. Now thats real absurd. | |
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