| Clydach murders on 20:41 - Oct 23 with 1459 views | Tim_Harry |
| Clydach murders on 20:33 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
How do you know he would have realised that? When in fact there wasn't that much evidence was there? What interview was it that he said that in? The first interview? The 5th? The 10th? The police don't show their full hand in the first interview, for example.
If he knew that he didn't do it, he would have it in his mind that he'd soon be out of there. I have no idea if he was stupid or not. |
He always knew his chain was there at the scene of the crime.
Whether he knew that the police knew that it was his doesn't matter. If any possession of mine was found at a quadruple murder scene, I'd be in a panic and do anything to prove my innocence over anything else.
Maybe if I was in a serious relationship with Rachel Riley I might take a chance! Although even that's probably not worth four life sentences! |  | |  |
| Clydach murders on 20:46 - Oct 23 with 1450 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 20:38 - Oct 23 by Garyjack |
If he was innocent in that interview room room, he wouldn't lie. It's 4 horrific murders we're talking about here, and he had a whole year to think about it. C'mon Neathie ff's man. You'll always find discrepancies and doubt when cases such as these are aired on national television, but common sense tells you who the murderer is, and that is David Morris. |
Gar, I've got no view either way as to his guilt.
I've not commented either way.
If he was guilty, and after a year passed, he probably thought he was in the clear, so the shock of then being pulled in would have put pay to any plans of what he was going to say out of the window.
If i was having an affair with my girlfriends best mate, and i was in that interview room, being questioned on a crime i knew that i didn't commit, there would be no way I'd be admitting to having an affair. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 20:49 - Oct 23 with 1437 views | Neath_Jack |
Taxman, there's absolutely no chance I'm answering your post, for god sake man, make your points a bit shorter  | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:49 - Oct 23 with 1436 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 20:46 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
Gar, I've got no view either way as to his guilt.
I've not commented either way.
If he was guilty, and after a year passed, he probably thought he was in the clear, so the shock of then being pulled in would have put pay to any plans of what he was going to say out of the window.
If i was having an affair with my girlfriends best mate, and i was in that interview room, being questioned on a crime i knew that i didn't commit, there would be no way I'd be admitting to having an affair. |
You are assuming he was having an affair. That was what he claimed after his story about the mask had been proven to be false. There are friends of hers who claimed she feared him not having an affair with him and at the time he claimed to be having sex with her the evidence placed her elsewhere. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:50 - Oct 23 with 1434 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 20:41 - Oct 23 by Tim_Harry |
He always knew his chain was there at the scene of the crime.
Whether he knew that the police knew that it was his doesn't matter. If any possession of mine was found at a quadruple murder scene, I'd be in a panic and do anything to prove my innocence over anything else.
Maybe if I was in a serious relationship with Rachel Riley I might take a chance! Although even that's probably not worth four life sentences! |
If you are not going to answer my questions put to you, I'm not going to keep addressing different points.
Gogglebox is on soon anyway... | |
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| Clydach murders on 21:00 - Oct 23 with 1415 views | Tim_Harry |
| Clydach murders on 20:50 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
If you are not going to answer my questions put to you, I'm not going to keep addressing different points.
Gogglebox is on soon anyway... |
What questions do you want me to answer? I've answered everything that has relevance. He would have known about his chain being at the scene of the crime, whichever story you choose to believe.
Anyway, off you pop to watch Gogglebox. Night x | | | |
| Clydach murders on 21:04 - Oct 23 with 1405 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 20:46 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
Gar, I've got no view either way as to his guilt.
I've not commented either way.
If he was guilty, and after a year passed, he probably thought he was in the clear, so the shock of then being pulled in would have put pay to any plans of what he was going to say out of the window.
If i was having an affair with my girlfriends best mate, and i was in that interview room, being questioned on a crime i knew that i didn't commit, there would be no way I'd be admitting to having an affair. |
I'm sorry, but if i was being accused of such a crime and i was innocent, then i would certainly cough to an affair rather than lie in interview, no doubt about it. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 21:13 - Oct 23 with 1382 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 17:26 - Oct 23 by exhmrc1 |
Do you believe that someone who has drunk 8 pints is likely to be walking 9 miles and no one seeing him.
Do you believe that on the one occasion a serving cop in civies walks over a lonely mountain road at 4am in the morning a guy who has form with the police happens to be coming the opposite way and only comes forward 20 years later.
Do you think that no one would notice someone not wearing a very distinctive chain they also wore when in the pub.
According to the Morris team all these happened.
In addition he denied being upstairs in the house until the chain he supposedly left there was found upstairs.
This was the chain he constantly denied was his and even got someone else to buy another for him to cover up it wasnt his in the house.
These are just a few things. There was a trial lasted 11 weeks and last nights programme lasted an hour. There was much the jurors saw that we didnt. |
I'm not about to go reading old reports of the case but did Morris claim he was not in the murder house that day/at the time of the murders ?
And you say nobody seen Morris in the vacinety of the murder house at the time.......so are you saying that there was no eye witnesses putting Morris at the scene which backs up what Morris himself says so he didn't do it, is that what you are saying, I thought you thought he did do it.
The guy that thought he seen the policeman at 4am in the morning on a lonely road not long after the murders might be telling the truth, but where had he been all this time is a fair concern, the other sightings mind you by the taxi driver and the woman both came across as creditable witnesses.
If I was some random person who was on nodding terms or just knew of somebody else that frequented the same pub i visited i wouldn't notice somebody wearing or not wearing a chain I must admit.
As regards the chain perhaps he did not want to admit to an affair as he did not want his other half finding out about it.
There are far more questions about the behaviour of others than Morris as to why they did this and why they did that, the trial was 11 weeks but seemed stacked against Morris (whether guilty or not), evidence not declared to the jury (not in the national interest type things, whatever could that be) and the poor performance of his own defence (timeline etc ).
Something I mentioned earlier on in this thread that I thought other people would not understand and that is if somebody else had been tried for the murders before Morris could they have been found guilty of the murders ?
Anybody that thinks yes it just underlines that it's a legal game, it's not really about getting the real culprit, in a case like this with no witnesses to the actual murders and little forensic evidence then who gets put on trial first might take the rap for it.
In cases like this it's difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt but in this case there was a guilty verdict, hence the concerns in many quarters as to if it was the right decision. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 21:19 - Oct 23 with 1369 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 21:04 - Oct 23 by Garyjack |
I'm sorry, but if i was being accused of such a crime and i was innocent, then i would certainly cough to an affair rather than lie in interview, no doubt about it. |
Ignore the magnitude of the crime, but under caution, have you lied in an interview room? Then as the interviews progress, you can see the evidence increasing against you, and you change your story? | |
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| Clydach murders on 21:24 - Oct 23 with 1359 views | ItchySphincter |
| Clydach murders on 16:59 - Oct 23 by trampie |
Exactly, this Clydach case apparently had a unusualy large amount of evidence not allowed to be presented, if it was a terrorist case or spies or nuclear weapons that would be one thing but it wasn't, but it could be argued that it did involve the police....hhm. |
Are you a lawyer? With you vast expertise you should be. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 21:30 - Oct 23 with 1345 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 21:24 - Oct 23 by ItchySphincter |
Are you a lawyer? With you vast expertise you should be. |
Judging by what happened to Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson I'm happy I'm not a lawyer. | |
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| Clydach murders on 21:39 - Oct 23 with 1325 views | Tim_Harry |
| Clydach murders on 21:19 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
Ignore the magnitude of the crime, but under caution, have you lied in an interview room? Then as the interviews progress, you can see the evidence increasing against you, and you change your story? |
That question will be relevant if the stakes are the same.
Has Gary been in a situation where a significant possession of his was found at a murder scene?
Would he lie if it meant saving a relationship, while increasing his chances of being framed for a quadruple murder?
Whichever story you believe, Morris knew what evidence was against him from the off. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 21:40]
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| Clydach murders on 21:50 - Oct 23 with 1303 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 21:19 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
Ignore the magnitude of the crime, but under caution, have you lied in an interview room? Then as the interviews progress, you can see the evidence increasing against you, and you change your story? |
Not from personal experience, but i'd hazard a guess that is exactly what happens when you're guilty! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 21:53 - Oct 23 with 1295 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 21:39 - Oct 23 by Tim_Harry |
That question will be relevant if the stakes are the same.
Has Gary been in a situation where a significant possession of his was found at a murder scene?
Would he lie if it meant saving a relationship, while increasing his chances of being framed for a quadruple murder?
Whichever story you believe, Morris knew what evidence was against him from the off. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 21:40]
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No it wouldn't, not unless Gary was a career criminal who is regularly interviewed under caution, for extremely violent crimes.
I have no idea if Gary has or not, hence me asking to ignore the magnitude of this particular crime.
You talking about Gary with this question now?
Did he? How do you know what the police put to him from the off. Criminals nearly always think they've got something that the police don't know about. The normal tactic is to say nothing, and let the police show their hand first. | |
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| Clydach murders on 21:54 - Oct 23 with 1291 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 21:50 - Oct 23 by Garyjack |
Not from personal experience, but i'd hazard a guess that is exactly what happens when you're guilty! |
It happens when you're innocent too (when you have got yourself a bad name). | |
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| Clydach murders on 21:58 - Oct 23 with 1273 views | Flashberryjack |
| Clydach murders on 21:39 - Oct 23 by Tim_Harry |
That question will be relevant if the stakes are the same.
Has Gary been in a situation where a significant possession of his was found at a murder scene?
Would he lie if it meant saving a relationship, while increasing his chances of being framed for a quadruple murder?
Whichever story you believe, Morris knew what evidence was against him from the off. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 21:40]
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"Morris knew what evidence was against him from the off"
Of course he did, that's why he lied every time he opened his mouth, then he made up more lies each time the police disproved them.
I wouldn't have thought his relationship with his girlfriend would have been foremost in his mind as he was trying to wriggle out of being charged with the horrific murder of 4 innocent people, 2 of them being little children. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 21:58 - Oct 23 with 1272 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 21:53 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
No it wouldn't, not unless Gary was a career criminal who is regularly interviewed under caution, for extremely violent crimes.
I have no idea if Gary has or not, hence me asking to ignore the magnitude of this particular crime.
You talking about Gary with this question now?
Did he? How do you know what the police put to him from the off. Criminals nearly always think they've got something that the police don't know about. The normal tactic is to say nothing, and let the police show their hand first. |
"Criminals nearly always think they've got something that the police don't know about. The normal tactic is to say nothing, and let the police show their hand first."
Of course they do. when they are guilty! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:00 - Oct 23 with 1268 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 21:54 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
It happens when you're innocent too (when you have got yourself a bad name). |
Not in the context of a horrific crime which you are conveniently asking us to ignore! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:02 - Oct 23 with 1261 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 21:13 - Oct 23 by trampie |
I'm not about to go reading old reports of the case but did Morris claim he was not in the murder house that day/at the time of the murders ?
And you say nobody seen Morris in the vacinety of the murder house at the time.......so are you saying that there was no eye witnesses putting Morris at the scene which backs up what Morris himself says so he didn't do it, is that what you are saying, I thought you thought he did do it.
The guy that thought he seen the policeman at 4am in the morning on a lonely road not long after the murders might be telling the truth, but where had he been all this time is a fair concern, the other sightings mind you by the taxi driver and the woman both came across as creditable witnesses.
If I was some random person who was on nodding terms or just knew of somebody else that frequented the same pub i visited i wouldn't notice somebody wearing or not wearing a chain I must admit.
As regards the chain perhaps he did not want to admit to an affair as he did not want his other half finding out about it.
There are far more questions about the behaviour of others than Morris as to why they did this and why they did that, the trial was 11 weeks but seemed stacked against Morris (whether guilty or not), evidence not declared to the jury (not in the national interest type things, whatever could that be) and the poor performance of his own defence (timeline etc ).
Something I mentioned earlier on in this thread that I thought other people would not understand and that is if somebody else had been tried for the murders before Morris could they have been found guilty of the murders ?
Anybody that thinks yes it just underlines that it's a legal game, it's not really about getting the real culprit, in a case like this with no witnesses to the actual murders and little forensic evidence then who gets put on trial first might take the rap for it.
In cases like this it's difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt but in this case there was a guilty verdict, hence the concerns in many quarters as to if it was the right decision. |
As regards this statement I suppose it is possible that someone else could have been tried and found guilty but that would have needed the evidence. The CPS decided there wasn't strong enough evidence to bring a case against the Lewis family. All too often there are cases which have fallen for not having evidence where the cps have gone ahead with prosecutions so I suppose it just shows there wasn't enough evidence to charge the Lewis's and also like everyone else that would need to be guilty without reasonable doubt and not balance of probability as in civil cases.
Yes Morris claimed eventually he had sex there the day before and had left his chain there then. This was only after he was aware the prosecution had evidence the chain he denied all along was his. That being the case he wouldn't have had his chain on him that Saturday. Given he had been in the pub all day with people including his girlfriend who knew him and always knew he wore the chain i would have expected someone particularly his girlfiend would have noticed his chain was missing but that is assuming that it wasn't around his neck and got left during the evening at Mandy's house.
The woman who claimed this put this to the jury who rejected it. I believe from memory someone did claim they had seen Morris but it would need checking through and doesnt matter anyway. I think the issue about the Taxi driver was known at the time.
Why the defence team didnt raise something is a matter for them. It isnt new so really doesnt matter.
As far the mans claim it is just totally unbelievable and not just him coming forward after 20 years. You are talking about a copper killing 4 people. How did he get there. Is he really going to be walking 4 miles home after it. This witness knew about the guy in the bomber jacket. It had been raised previously by the woman so he knew what to say. It is absolutely incredible to think that Lewis would have been so stupid to walk over an hour home knowing the last mile or so he would be walking in a built up area.
There are absolutely loads of houses between where he would have come off the mountain and his house and part of it is the main Pontardawe and Ammanford road. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:05 - Oct 23 with 1257 views | Tim_Harry |
| Clydach murders on 21:53 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
No it wouldn't, not unless Gary was a career criminal who is regularly interviewed under caution, for extremely violent crimes.
I have no idea if Gary has or not, hence me asking to ignore the magnitude of this particular crime.
You talking about Gary with this question now?
Did he? How do you know what the police put to him from the off. Criminals nearly always think they've got something that the police don't know about. The normal tactic is to say nothing, and let the police show their hand first. |
Bloody hell, mate. How difficult is it to understand if my reference to Gary is in a literal or hypothetical sense? It's not that hard! I don't know Gary personally. There you go!
And I'll state it again. Morris knew the Police had evidence against him. Why do you think he got a relative to buy a chain for him? | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:09 - Oct 23 with 1245 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 22:02 - Oct 23 by exhmrc1 |
As regards this statement I suppose it is possible that someone else could have been tried and found guilty but that would have needed the evidence. The CPS decided there wasn't strong enough evidence to bring a case against the Lewis family. All too often there are cases which have fallen for not having evidence where the cps have gone ahead with prosecutions so I suppose it just shows there wasn't enough evidence to charge the Lewis's and also like everyone else that would need to be guilty without reasonable doubt and not balance of probability as in civil cases.
Yes Morris claimed eventually he had sex there the day before and had left his chain there then. This was only after he was aware the prosecution had evidence the chain he denied all along was his. That being the case he wouldn't have had his chain on him that Saturday. Given he had been in the pub all day with people including his girlfriend who knew him and always knew he wore the chain i would have expected someone particularly his girlfiend would have noticed his chain was missing but that is assuming that it wasn't around his neck and got left during the evening at Mandy's house.
The woman who claimed this put this to the jury who rejected it. I believe from memory someone did claim they had seen Morris but it would need checking through and doesnt matter anyway. I think the issue about the Taxi driver was known at the time.
Why the defence team didnt raise something is a matter for them. It isnt new so really doesnt matter.
As far the mans claim it is just totally unbelievable and not just him coming forward after 20 years. You are talking about a copper killing 4 people. How did he get there. Is he really going to be walking 4 miles home after it. This witness knew about the guy in the bomber jacket. It had been raised previously by the woman so he knew what to say. It is absolutely incredible to think that Lewis would have been so stupid to walk over an hour home knowing the last mile or so he would be walking in a built up area.
There are absolutely loads of houses between where he would have come off the mountain and his house and part of it is the main Pontardawe and Ammanford road. |
So you are saying there are no eye witnesses putting Morris at the scene on the day of the murders and he also says he wasn't there. | |
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| Clydach murders on 22:12 - Oct 23 with 1239 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 22:05 - Oct 23 by Tim_Harry |
Bloody hell, mate. How difficult is it to understand if my reference to Gary is in a literal or hypothetical sense? It's not that hard! I don't know Gary personally. There you go!
And I'll state it again. Morris knew the Police had evidence against him. Why do you think he got a relative to buy a chain for him? |
Could you print up what evidence the police put to Morris in his first interview please.
You seem very sure of what was or wasn't known. | |
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| Clydach murders on 22:12 - Oct 23 with 1236 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 21:58 - Oct 23 by Garyjack |
"Criminals nearly always think they've got something that the police don't know about. The normal tactic is to say nothing, and let the police show their hand first."
Of course they do. when they are guilty! |
And when innocent. | |
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| Clydach murders on 22:17 - Oct 23 with 1224 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 22:00 - Oct 23 by Garyjack |
Not in the context of a horrific crime which you are conveniently asking us to ignore! |
I was going to try and give you a personal example from past experience, but I'd be wasting my time. That and I can't be arsed anymore, I was bored when i started this, now I'm proper bored
I will say again, I have no idea if he is guilty or not (legally he is obviously). You Tim, taxman and I, can assume and second guess as much as we like, we will never know what Morris was thinking in those interviews. The only thing we know is that he was found guilty, twice. | |
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| Clydach murders on 22:22 - Oct 23 with 1216 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 22:17 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
I was going to try and give you a personal example from past experience, but I'd be wasting my time. That and I can't be arsed anymore, I was bored when i started this, now I'm proper bored
I will say again, I have no idea if he is guilty or not (legally he is obviously). You Tim, taxman and I, can assume and second guess as much as we like, we will never know what Morris was thinking in those interviews. The only thing we know is that he was found guilty, twice. |
Technically 3 times, if you include the appeal court.  | | | |
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