| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 19:40 - Oct 2 with 1655 views | trampie |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 19:07 - Oct 2 by Lohengrin |
That’s the thing about civil wars, Tramp: they are not terribly civilised. |
Often in war one side is more civilised than the other. [Post edited 2 Oct 2018 19:44]
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 19:58 - Oct 2 with 1643 views | Lohengrin |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 19:40 - Oct 2 by trampie |
Often in war one side is more civilised than the other. [Post edited 2 Oct 2018 19:44]
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As widely and as deeply as I have studied over the decades, Tramp, I can’t honestly say that’s a conclusion I’ve arrived at too often. |  |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 21:23 - Oct 2 with 1607 views | Catullus |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 18:58 - Oct 2 by trampie |
Enslaved by the Communists you say, at least they let some of them go, like McCain, the capitalists just dropped napalm on children, blew the brains out of handcuffed prisoners in the street and their American friends burned villages and murdered raped and tortured women and children . [Post edited 2 Oct 2018 19:00]
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McCain was kept prisoner for 5 and a half years, he was regularly beaten, tortured and suffered several broken bones.
I can't say the Americans or South Viets were innocent but the Viet Cong perpetrated atrocities too there was the massacre at Hue and a Viet cong soldier said the general rule for civilians near the border was "atrocity them all and let God cry it out" |  |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 21:39 - Oct 2 with 1597 views | trampie |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 21:23 - Oct 2 by Catullus |
McCain was kept prisoner for 5 and a half years, he was regularly beaten, tortured and suffered several broken bones.
I can't say the Americans or South Viets were innocent but the Viet Cong perpetrated atrocities too there was the massacre at Hue and a Viet cong soldier said the general rule for civilians near the border was "atrocity them all and let God cry it out" |
They let McCain go after everything the American pilots did to civilians, women and children. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 21:48 - Oct 2 with 1576 views | Catullus |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 21:39 - Oct 2 by trampie |
They let McCain go after everything the American pilots did to civilians, women and children. |
What about everything the Viet Cong did to Vietnamese civilians?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF
Anywhere from 2,800 to 6,000 men, women, children AND INFANTS, you keep on supporting the Communists if you must but it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Maybe Westmoreland and others should have been up in the Hague but so should many VC and NVA. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 22:13 - Oct 2 with 1557 views | trampie |
The best programme I seen on the Vietnam war was a British programme about an American atrocity [so disturbing I wouldn't advise watching it], 4 hours in My Lai, won the International Emmy for best Documentary that year.
Americans killed, tortured and mutilated civilians, women, children and babies they raped women and young girls, burned the village, even killed their animals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
[Post edited 2 Oct 2018 22:53]
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 22:41 - Oct 2 with 1539 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:37 - Oct 2 by trampie |
Yanks were embarrassed by a non league team, Ho Chi Minh proved himself to be one of the best players of all time.
Premier League you're having a laugh, Premier League you're having a laugh. |
Non league, the Vietnamese?
Only country to intervene to stop the Khmer Rouge holocaust.
Only country that when attacked and invaded by the Chinese in the late 70s to chase the Chinese 500 miles back into China. "Double Hard Bast*rds" doesn't even come close. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 23:00 - Oct 2 with 1525 views | trampie |
You forgot the French. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 23:35 - Oct 2 with 1512 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 23:00 - Oct 2 by trampie |
You forgot the French. |
No needto metion the French. The Chinese are enough. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 09:06 - Oct 3 with 1459 views | Loyal |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 17:39 - Oct 2 by trampie |
The Communists won, the good guys beat the imperialists and their puppets, some stories do have a happy ending. |
Right, left fascist or communist it's all filth. |  |
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The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 09:39 - Oct 3 with 1450 views | Catullus |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 22:13 - Oct 2 by trampie |
The best programme I seen on the Vietnam war was a British programme about an American atrocity [so disturbing I wouldn't advise watching it], 4 hours in My Lai, won the International Emmy for best Documentary that year.
Americans killed, tortured and mutilated civilians, women, children and babies they raped women and young girls, burned the village, even killed their animals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
[Post edited 2 Oct 2018 22:53]
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That's kind of the point, both sides committed atrocities. In a case like that you condemn both sides, you don't around saying Yay, the good guys won, the commies beat the imperialists, not if you're normal anyway.
Normal people condemn both sides, call them both out for their atrocities. I suppose you'd also choose Stalin over Churchill or Roosevelt? | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 10:04 - Oct 3 with 1440 views | trampie |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 09:39 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
That's kind of the point, both sides committed atrocities. In a case like that you condemn both sides, you don't around saying Yay, the good guys won, the commies beat the imperialists, not if you're normal anyway.
Normal people condemn both sides, call them both out for their atrocities. I suppose you'd also choose Stalin over Churchill or Roosevelt? |
You mean like the British in WW2 and Mer-el-Kebir and the fire bombing of German cities ?
Or our concentration camps for women and children in South Africa that type of thing you mean is it ?¡ | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 10:20 - Oct 3 with 1432 views | Catullus |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 10:04 - Oct 3 by trampie |
You mean like the British in WW2 and Mer-el-Kebir and the fire bombing of German cities ?
Or our concentration camps for women and children in South Africa that type of thing you mean is it ?¡ |
Yes, that kind of thing. Whatever the conflict, things are done that normally we would condemn. Most people don't want to hear about it and just be happy if their side won. When the truth comes out people tend to try and legitimise things...they started it, they are evil, we did what we had to do etc.
I'm not so naive as Corbyn to say talking can solve everything but I wouldn't be so gung ho as various POTUS's, Blair or whoever else either.
Wars bring with them lots of things to condemn. These days Bomber Harris would be up in the Hague, the Dambusters would face questions too. However, you can't legitimise one sides atrocities because the other side did it......not unless you are a rabid lefty who hates the imperialist yoke and supports any who struggle against it!!
Stalin showed the world you don't have to be right wing to be a despot,
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/03/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/ | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 10:59 - Oct 3 with 1418 views | trampie |
Its the freedom fighters that are usually in the right, it is often their country that is taken over by foreigners who treat them as second class citizens.
Tit for tat ensues and then the the freedom fighters get called terrorists for fighting back against invaders and often they are up against greater numbers who have greater arms (otherwise they would not have been attacked in the first place) so the freedom fighters have to use guerilla tactics and get called terrorists and all sorts. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:15 - Oct 3 with 1411 views | Lohengrin |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 10:20 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
Yes, that kind of thing. Whatever the conflict, things are done that normally we would condemn. Most people don't want to hear about it and just be happy if their side won. When the truth comes out people tend to try and legitimise things...they started it, they are evil, we did what we had to do etc.
I'm not so naive as Corbyn to say talking can solve everything but I wouldn't be so gung ho as various POTUS's, Blair or whoever else either.
Wars bring with them lots of things to condemn. These days Bomber Harris would be up in the Hague, the Dambusters would face questions too. However, you can't legitimise one sides atrocities because the other side did it......not unless you are a rabid lefty who hates the imperialist yoke and supports any who struggle against it!!
Stalin showed the world you don't have to be right wing to be a despot,
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/03/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/ |
”Yes, that kind of thing.”
Let’s try and bring a bit of sanity and accuracy back into play, shall we? The South African camps didn’t constitute a ‘war crime’ as any fair-minded person understands the charge, rather it was an ill-conceived policy overtaken by catastrophe. The Boer ‘victims’ succumbed to a Typhoid epidemic along with some 15,000 British troops, prey to fever, dysentery and intestinal infection.
Nor was the official response one of callous indifference. Volunteer medical staff, Clase’s hero Arthur Conan Doyle among them, were rushed out in an attempt to alleviate a desperate situation. The size and scope of the RAMC was rapidly expanded and urgent impetus in the search for vaccines was set in train.
From that dark some light emerged. It doesn’t belong in a conversation about carpet bombing and the like. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:18 - Oct 3 with 1406 views | controversial_jack |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 19:04 - Oct 2 by Lohengrin |
I’d say winning the Cold War and stand watching as the Soviet Union broke apart would count, wouldn’t you? |
The cold war wasn't won by the Americans, it was an internal collapse of the economy, because of a lack of outside investment , particularly into the oil and gas industry.It makes a nice story though of how the west triumphed over the evil commies. | | | |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:25 - Oct 3 with 1396 views | trampie |
The British concentration camps in SA were definitely a war crime, no doubt, disgraceful causing the death of thousands and thousands of women and children through starvation and diseases when they were jailed in our camps, it was a deliberate policy. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:31 - Oct 3 with 1391 views | Lohengrin |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:18 - Oct 3 by controversial_jack |
The cold war wasn't won by the Americans, it was an internal collapse of the economy, because of a lack of outside investment , particularly into the oil and gas industry.It makes a nice story though of how the west triumphed over the evil commies. |
The whole rotten edifice eventually collapsed under the weight of its own iniquity and the example of the West was key to that process.
Folk in the Ukraine and elsewhere would look at us and marvel that we were free to say, read and travel as we wished while they were ground beneath the heel of oriental despotism. We awoke them. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:34 - Oct 3 with 1386 views | controversial_jack |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:31 - Oct 3 by Lohengrin |
The whole rotten edifice eventually collapsed under the weight of its own iniquity and the example of the West was key to that process.
Folk in the Ukraine and elsewhere would look at us and marvel that we were free to say, read and travel as we wished while they were ground beneath the heel of oriental despotism. We awoke them. |
No, that had absolutely nothing to do with it as I explained.Take your ideological glasses off and do some real research | | | |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:39 - Oct 3 with 1382 views | Lohengrin |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:25 - Oct 3 by trampie |
The British concentration camps in SA were definitely a war crime, no doubt, disgraceful causing the death of thousands and thousands of women and children through starvation and diseases when they were jailed in our camps, it was a deliberate policy. |
Explain to me how Lord Cecil’s administration was able to dictate the orbit of bacteria? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:47 - Oct 3 with 1373 views | Lohengrin |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:34 - Oct 3 by controversial_jack |
No, that had absolutely nothing to do with it as I explained.Take your ideological glasses off and do some real research |
”...as I explained.
Go on then, take a proper run at it. Explain to me how an ideology as monstrous in concept and practice as Communism would have been able to function indefinitely on Europe’s fringes. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 12:03 - Oct 3 with 1365 views | trampie |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:39 - Oct 3 by Lohengrin |
Explain to me how Lord Cecil’s administration was able to dictate the orbit of bacteria? |
You don't need to be a doctor to know if you overcrowd and contain people in a small area basically living outdoors in the elements with very little food and in awful living conditions then disease is going to spread.
They knew what they were doing and the likely effects on the women and children in the camps and as regards outside the camps we poisoned water wells and destroyed crops, it was British policy. | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 12:20 - Oct 3 with 1355 views | Lohengrin |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 12:03 - Oct 3 by trampie |
You don't need to be a doctor to know if you overcrowd and contain people in a small area basically living outdoors in the elements with very little food and in awful living conditions then disease is going to spread.
They knew what they were doing and the likely effects on the women and children in the camps and as regards outside the camps we poisoned water wells and destroyed crops, it was British policy. |
”...outside the camps we poisoned water wells and destroyed crops, it was British policy.
Cutting the line of supply, you mean? How would you have gone about restricting the Commando’s range of effective action, Sun Tzu?  | |
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| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 12:27 - Oct 3 with 1350 views | controversial_jack |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 11:47 - Oct 3 by Lohengrin |
”...as I explained.
Go on then, take a proper run at it. Explain to me how an ideology as monstrous in concept and practice as Communism would have been able to function indefinitely on Europe’s fringes. |
Do i really need to explain this? Your entire post is built upon how the superiority of the west and it's capitalist system took down the evil communists, without you having a basic grasp of the reality of what actually happened. | | | |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 12:35 - Oct 3 with 1343 views | Lohengrin |
| Storyville: Last Days in Vietnam on 12:27 - Oct 3 by controversial_jack |
Do i really need to explain this? Your entire post is built upon how the superiority of the west and it's capitalist system took down the evil communists, without you having a basic grasp of the reality of what actually happened. |
My grasp is pretty solid but I’m always interested in hearing leftie reasoning for Paradise Lost.
The floor is yours, old chap... | |
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