| Academy. on 17:01 - Sep 20 with 1356 views | Badlands |
U23s were excellent last night (like a different side to recent games) could /should have scored 4 or 5. |  |
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| Academy. on 17:26 - Sep 20 with 1338 views | jasper_T |
| Academy. on 17:00 - Sep 20 by Badlands |
Have to say that is the saddest comment I have read on the academy.
Buying a player for the academy for a few hundred thousand who then plays for the U23s, raising their profile and advertising bite the academy and the club, possibly the first team, makes a profit for us or is just helped a youngster become a professional at a lower level is IMO exactly what academies do.
Nothing to celebrate there ...save a hole in our pockets...??? Really?
In the last two seasons the academy players coming through will have saved the club £10s of millions in transfer fees to buy in those positions. Add to that the money received from transfers and the academy has paid its dues and sets itself up for a few years in the future.
Very few academies take 5 year olds and turn them into world class players. Just doesn't happen. |
Did it really save us tens of millions? We bought in two players for DJ's position last summer, for a combined £2.5m, and another two this summer for half a million and a loan, none of whom can get a game with Routledge and Dyer still going. Rodon was replaced with a loan player after he got injured. The transfer fees for many of our academy products were very similar to what we've been paying for first team squad players recently.
The benefit of the academy last season was that the players we developed were simply better than what we otherwise had, not that we would have had to go out and spend big money without them. Even when they were fit a good number of senior players with hundreds of games under their belt were gathering splinters on merit.
The savings were modest, while the profits from selling them on were not. But it's a tough ask to repeat that trick with a now much smaller and locally-limited pool of players. |  | | |
| Academy. on 23:10 - Sep 20 with 1288 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Academy. on 12:50 - Sep 20 by glanmORJa_k |
Rodon J, Cabango B, Cooper B, Cullen L, Evans J, Lewis A, Lewis J, Thomas L, Davies O, Roberts C, Sheehan J, Shephard L.
All of the above are former scholars with the Swans and have all made their lge debuts, either with the Swans or at other clubs after being released.
James D, signed as 16 year old from Hull, £72k
Garrick J, signed as a 17 yr old from Huddersfield College, played for Ossett Albion
Samuel A, signed as scholar at the age of 16 for Swans from Aberystwyth
Bray A, released by Swindon at age of 15, signed as scholar for Swans in 2010
Gorre K, a year at Man United, he signed for Swans as a free agent at the age of 18 after a trial
Hedges R, former Everton academy player, released, signed for Swans as 17 yr old from Flint Town in July 2013
Zabret G, 17 year old arrived on trial in January 2013, Swans later paid a fee for him. He had made senior apps for Domzale prior to signing for Swans.
Of the two players Swans paid a fee for(James, Zabret) just 3 players(Bray, Gorre, Hedges) had been tied to a league club as a schoolboy. |
Outstandingly detailed post that proves my point. Thanks Gary.
Shephard was produced by Cardiff of course.
Still only meaningful players produced are Rodon and Roberts.
If you are celebrating Bray, Gorre, Hedges and Zabret then you really are a happy clapper. Maybe you should add Rory and Gogic.
Laughable. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Academy. on 23:42 - Sep 20 with 1270 views | jasper_T |
Hedges at least made us a profit. | | | |
| Academy. on 07:28 - Sep 21 with 1213 views | glanmORJa_k |
| Academy. on 23:10 - Sep 20 by Kilkennyjack |
Outstandingly detailed post that proves my point. Thanks Gary.
Shephard was produced by Cardiff of course.
Still only meaningful players produced are Rodon and Roberts.
If you are celebrating Bray, Gorre, Hedges and Zabret then you really are a happy clapper. Maybe you should add Rory and Gogic.
Laughable. |
Thanks for the praise, but my name is not Gary.
Shephard might have been 'produced' at Cardiff but was not deemed good enough for a scholarship in the same vein that former Swans players like Emyr Hws came through the club's centre of excellence, turned down a scholarship and signed for Manchester City.
It happens all the time and at all clubs.
Shephard played in the Swans 18's and 23's, made his first team debut then left for pastures new.
The post was meant to highlight players Swans have paid cash for who graduated through the 18's to the 23's and that leaves just two. You forgot to add that Cabango was also on the books of Cardiff
Not a question of 'celebrating/ Bray, Gorre, Hedges or even Zabret, but highlighting he Swans as the major influence in them making a career in professional football.
Both Rory and Gogic of course didn't play for the Swans 18's however.
Not a question of being a 'happy clapper' more of educating guys like yourself what first team talent has come through the Swans academy system in a short period of time. | | | |
| Academy. on 08:49 - Sep 21 with 1172 views | NotLoyal |
| Academy. on 07:28 - Sep 21 by glanmORJa_k |
Thanks for the praise, but my name is not Gary.
Shephard might have been 'produced' at Cardiff but was not deemed good enough for a scholarship in the same vein that former Swans players like Emyr Hws came through the club's centre of excellence, turned down a scholarship and signed for Manchester City.
It happens all the time and at all clubs.
Shephard played in the Swans 18's and 23's, made his first team debut then left for pastures new.
The post was meant to highlight players Swans have paid cash for who graduated through the 18's to the 23's and that leaves just two. You forgot to add that Cabango was also on the books of Cardiff
Not a question of 'celebrating/ Bray, Gorre, Hedges or even Zabret, but highlighting he Swans as the major influence in them making a career in professional football.
Both Rory and Gogic of course didn't play for the Swans 18's however.
Not a question of being a 'happy clapper' more of educating guys like yourself what first team talent has come through the Swans academy system in a short period of time. |
And then the hard work done by the academy to get them there. Easily forgotten. |  |
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| Academy. on 09:05 - Sep 21 with 1161 views | Blue_Blood |
| Academy. on 07:28 - Sep 21 by glanmORJa_k |
Thanks for the praise, but my name is not Gary.
Shephard might have been 'produced' at Cardiff but was not deemed good enough for a scholarship in the same vein that former Swans players like Emyr Hws came through the club's centre of excellence, turned down a scholarship and signed for Manchester City.
It happens all the time and at all clubs.
Shephard played in the Swans 18's and 23's, made his first team debut then left for pastures new.
The post was meant to highlight players Swans have paid cash for who graduated through the 18's to the 23's and that leaves just two. You forgot to add that Cabango was also on the books of Cardiff
Not a question of 'celebrating/ Bray, Gorre, Hedges or even Zabret, but highlighting he Swans as the major influence in them making a career in professional football.
Both Rory and Gogic of course didn't play for the Swans 18's however.
Not a question of being a 'happy clapper' more of educating guys like yourself what first team talent has come through the Swans academy system in a short period of time. |
I find it bizarre how people on here are so quick to undermine the achievements of your academy.
If you take the example of Southampton whose academy is lauded in this country.
Just a brief look this morning and I've found out that Theo Walcott was taken from Swindon, Luke Shaw was rejected by Chelsea academy and put in their development and Adam Lallana was stolen from Bournemouth.
If a team like Millwall were to develop the next Steven Gerrard do you honestly think he'd still be at Millwall when he was 21?
It's very naive to say that Dan James was already developed when he came to Swansea when he was 15.
He still had 5 years of development before he broke into the first team. Even players who had previously experienced first team football elsewhere were still developed in your academy.
That's the beauty of having an identity so you can identify players who can suit your system then hone them further to fit your model. | | | |
| Academy. on 09:22 - Sep 21 with 1147 views | jackrmee |
| Academy. on 17:26 - Sep 20 by jasper_T |
Did it really save us tens of millions? We bought in two players for DJ's position last summer, for a combined £2.5m, and another two this summer for half a million and a loan, none of whom can get a game with Routledge and Dyer still going. Rodon was replaced with a loan player after he got injured. The transfer fees for many of our academy products were very similar to what we've been paying for first team squad players recently.
The benefit of the academy last season was that the players we developed were simply better than what we otherwise had, not that we would have had to go out and spend big money without them. Even when they were fit a good number of senior players with hundreds of games under their belt were gathering splinters on merit.
The savings were modest, while the profits from selling them on were not. But it's a tough ask to repeat that trick with a now much smaller and locally-limited pool of players. |
Hence why we should spend a few quid on getting young playing in like we have in the past. Maybe not 6 figure sums, but pulling in free agents regected by other clubs or cheap players from smaller cat2 or 3 academies and then giving them the Cat 1 treatment, including possible first team chances here.
Surely this will help make young players into the DJs, McBurnies, etc.
Don't forget we still have great assets who we haven't sold yet, which, although we may have brought in from elsewhere, our system definitely improved. Connor, Grimes, Byers etc.
Those players alone would bring in tens of millions if sold, and could even get us to the prem if not sold.
We don't know if these players would have come through anyway, without cat1, but we definitely know they did come through with Cat 1.
We also have good young players coming through. Rushesha, Cabango, Evans.
They will almost definitely benefit from playing international cups and against top academies.
We are only just finding the benefits of having this top academy. We need to continue it, at least so we can test it better.
If it takes more than a decade to see the benefits, surely we should give it a few more years at least?
At least keep it going until we have a 4 or 5 years dry spell in terms of producing top players? Even longer IMo. |  |
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| Academy. on 09:30 - Sep 21 with 1141 views | Badlands |
| Academy. on 09:05 - Sep 21 by Blue_Blood |
I find it bizarre how people on here are so quick to undermine the achievements of your academy.
If you take the example of Southampton whose academy is lauded in this country.
Just a brief look this morning and I've found out that Theo Walcott was taken from Swindon, Luke Shaw was rejected by Chelsea academy and put in their development and Adam Lallana was stolen from Bournemouth.
If a team like Millwall were to develop the next Steven Gerrard do you honestly think he'd still be at Millwall when he was 21?
It's very naive to say that Dan James was already developed when he came to Swansea when he was 15.
He still had 5 years of development before he broke into the first team. Even players who had previously experienced first team football elsewhere were still developed in your academy.
That's the beauty of having an identity so you can identify players who can suit your system then hone them further to fit your model. |
That's how academies work.
But some think you have to live on the doorstep, get sign at 4 and challenge to European Footballer of the Year to be considered a success and therefore endorse the academy.
They object to an academy that signs in older players and develops them because it just steals other coaches' has work yet are quite happy to buy players or the first team who have been 'finished' by other coaches and clubs.
Perhaps the law for this type of fan is only true bred Swansea boys who have been at the club since birth should be allowed to play for Swansea City!
Who knows? | |
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| Academy. on 09:59 - Sep 21 with 1118 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Academy. on 09:22 - Sep 21 by jackrmee |
Hence why we should spend a few quid on getting young playing in like we have in the past. Maybe not 6 figure sums, but pulling in free agents regected by other clubs or cheap players from smaller cat2 or 3 academies and then giving them the Cat 1 treatment, including possible first team chances here.
Surely this will help make young players into the DJs, McBurnies, etc.
Don't forget we still have great assets who we haven't sold yet, which, although we may have brought in from elsewhere, our system definitely improved. Connor, Grimes, Byers etc.
Those players alone would bring in tens of millions if sold, and could even get us to the prem if not sold.
We don't know if these players would have come through anyway, without cat1, but we definitely know they did come through with Cat 1.
We also have good young players coming through. Rushesha, Cabango, Evans.
They will almost definitely benefit from playing international cups and against top academies.
We are only just finding the benefits of having this top academy. We need to continue it, at least so we can test it better.
If it takes more than a decade to see the benefits, surely we should give it a few more years at least?
At least keep it going until we have a 4 or 5 years dry spell in terms of producing top players? Even longer IMo. |
"Connor, Grimes, Byers etc.
Those players alone would bring in tens of millions if sold"
Tens of millions? Connor Roberts is struggling in The Championship. When Swansea fans start moaning about the performances of the 'local' players it emphasises just how poor they are.
Grimes might be worth a little, but tens of millions? Absolutely not. I think we'd be lucky to see anything over ten million. Byers hasn't stood out that much either - not enough to be the talk of multi million pound transfers. |  |
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| Academy. on 11:14 - Sep 21 with 1098 views | jasper_T |
| Academy. on 09:22 - Sep 21 by jackrmee |
Hence why we should spend a few quid on getting young playing in like we have in the past. Maybe not 6 figure sums, but pulling in free agents regected by other clubs or cheap players from smaller cat2 or 3 academies and then giving them the Cat 1 treatment, including possible first team chances here.
Surely this will help make young players into the DJs, McBurnies, etc.
Don't forget we still have great assets who we haven't sold yet, which, although we may have brought in from elsewhere, our system definitely improved. Connor, Grimes, Byers etc.
Those players alone would bring in tens of millions if sold, and could even get us to the prem if not sold.
We don't know if these players would have come through anyway, without cat1, but we definitely know they did come through with Cat 1.
We also have good young players coming through. Rushesha, Cabango, Evans.
They will almost definitely benefit from playing international cups and against top academies.
We are only just finding the benefits of having this top academy. We need to continue it, at least so we can test it better.
If it takes more than a decade to see the benefits, surely we should give it a few more years at least?
At least keep it going until we have a 4 or 5 years dry spell in terms of producing top players? Even longer IMo. |
We brought in some 16 year olds released by other clubs on scholarships this summer, which we tend to do most years. One from Chelsea here, a couple from Derby there. Few ever come to much. And of the players we brought in on free transfers later on as 18 year olds Byers is the only one to come good enough. Dhanda potentially, but his wages aren't cheap.
Big academies aren't letting promising players go free, as even if Tyler Reid would obviously never be good enough for Man Utd they know they can still make money on him down the road if he'll be good enough for the Championship or League One. Stuart Webber talks about it in one of his long youtube interviews. It's a game with long odds.
DJ and Oli were assets held by other clubs that knew they had assets. The former were powerless in the face of a tribunal, the latter got paid, and paid well by the time all the clauses were fulfilled. Even then we lost far more of those gambles than we've won.
It's an expensive test at £4m a year when our turnover will be less than £20m in this division. That's almost an Ayew's wages, mun. | | | |
| Academy. on 11:25 - Sep 21 with 1092 views | jasper_T |
| Academy. on 09:22 - Sep 21 by jackrmee |
Hence why we should spend a few quid on getting young playing in like we have in the past. Maybe not 6 figure sums, but pulling in free agents regected by other clubs or cheap players from smaller cat2 or 3 academies and then giving them the Cat 1 treatment, including possible first team chances here.
Surely this will help make young players into the DJs, McBurnies, etc.
Don't forget we still have great assets who we haven't sold yet, which, although we may have brought in from elsewhere, our system definitely improved. Connor, Grimes, Byers etc.
Those players alone would bring in tens of millions if sold, and could even get us to the prem if not sold.
We don't know if these players would have come through anyway, without cat1, but we definitely know they did come through with Cat 1.
We also have good young players coming through. Rushesha, Cabango, Evans.
They will almost definitely benefit from playing international cups and against top academies.
We are only just finding the benefits of having this top academy. We need to continue it, at least so we can test it better.
If it takes more than a decade to see the benefits, surely we should give it a few more years at least?
At least keep it going until we have a 4 or 5 years dry spell in terms of producing top players? Even longer IMo. |
Connor definitely didn't come through Cat One. He was a full professional on loan at Yeovil when we started playing PL2 fixtures, the season before we officially got the full status and all the facilities were completed. Six-month spells at Bristol and Boro in the next two seasons meant he had little Cat One involvement, but did pick up a few trophies when he did drop in.
Matt Grimes had played 50 games for Exeter and spent two and a half of his three development seasons we were playing in PL2 on loan at other clubs. | | | |
| Academy. on 18:10 - Oct 23 with 921 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Academy. on 09:22 - Sep 21 by jackrmee |
Hence why we should spend a few quid on getting young playing in like we have in the past. Maybe not 6 figure sums, but pulling in free agents regected by other clubs or cheap players from smaller cat2 or 3 academies and then giving them the Cat 1 treatment, including possible first team chances here.
Surely this will help make young players into the DJs, McBurnies, etc.
Don't forget we still have great assets who we haven't sold yet, which, although we may have brought in from elsewhere, our system definitely improved. Connor, Grimes, Byers etc.
Those players alone would bring in tens of millions if sold, and could even get us to the prem if not sold.
We don't know if these players would have come through anyway, without cat1, but we definitely know they did come through with Cat 1.
We also have good young players coming through. Rushesha, Cabango, Evans.
They will almost definitely benefit from playing international cups and against top academies.
We are only just finding the benefits of having this top academy. We need to continue it, at least so we can test it better.
If it takes more than a decade to see the benefits, surely we should give it a few more years at least?
At least keep it going until we have a 4 or 5 years dry spell in terms of producing top players? Even longer IMo. |
"Connor, Grimes, Byers etc.
Those players alone would bring in tens of millions if sold"
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