| A question of morality 01:04 - Sep 5 with 3041 views | Kerouac |
It has come to my attention that somebody I know who believes himself to be a socialist, anti-capitalist and extinction rebellion member (and is politically active) has been stealing our tax money during the lockdown.
This individual is fortunate enough to be in receipt of thousands of pounds a month having taken early retirement in his 40s, he rents out a barn conversion to holidaymakers on the side (although he barely has any customers).
He has taken a £10,000 grant from the government to "compensate" him for "lost business" during COVID lockdown.
The man was rubbing his hands together at this, "We wouldn't have made £1000 nevermind £10,000!".
A mutual acquaintance talked about this with me separately and expressed anger at the government for making it so easy for people to rip the taxpayer off.
Yet for me, it is the individual abusing the system (the system that was set up to assist UK business and employers and employees through this crisis) that is deserving of the anger, not the government.
So what do you think?
Who is in the wrong, the government? Or the individuals who have abused the system and robbed our money? |  |
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| A question of morality on 03:23 - Sep 5 with 2427 views | DJack |
Thankfully it is nowhere as bad as US corporations doing stock buy-back with tax dollars. Or an the independant AG who was previously tasked to oversee govt expenditure being sacked...what do you think? |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| A question of morality on 09:43 - Sep 5 with 2389 views | Kerouac |
| A question of morality on 03:23 - Sep 5 by DJack |
Thankfully it is nowhere as bad as US corporations doing stock buy-back with tax dollars. Or an the independant AG who was previously tasked to oversee govt expenditure being sacked...what do you think? |
I think you are trying to justify theft. | |
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| A question of morality on 09:51 - Sep 5 with 2385 views | Catullus |
I think the person ripping the system off is dead wrong and pparently a complete hypocrite too.
However, any system that is so easily ripped off is also wrong and therein lays the problem, if the system is too easy it's ripped off but if it's too hard then deserving cases get no help. Where do we draw the line?
We know we can't rely on people's honesty and besides, we also know that being honest within the system can often result in you being denied the help/aid/benefits you seem to qualify for as some office bod plays god. It never helps when rumours of bonuses for saying no come around.
Surely there are checks though, don't they ask to see evidence of bookings/lost business? Or of previous business to prove he could make this much money?
Regardless, he is a crook, if anythging a proper capitalist being selfish and greedy. |  |
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| A question of morality on 09:57 - Sep 5 with 2383 views | Kerouac |
| A question of morality on 09:51 - Sep 5 by Catullus |
I think the person ripping the system off is dead wrong and pparently a complete hypocrite too.
However, any system that is so easily ripped off is also wrong and therein lays the problem, if the system is too easy it's ripped off but if it's too hard then deserving cases get no help. Where do we draw the line?
We know we can't rely on people's honesty and besides, we also know that being honest within the system can often result in you being denied the help/aid/benefits you seem to qualify for as some office bod plays god. It never helps when rumours of bonuses for saying no come around.
Surely there are checks though, don't they ask to see evidence of bookings/lost business? Or of previous business to prove he could make this much money?
Regardless, he is a crook, if anythging a proper capitalist being selfish and greedy. |
Unfortunately the system was set up without the usual checks...because the government had to move at speed to save people's incomes due to the lockdown, otherwise we would have created bigger problems, and simply didn't have enough staff or enough time.
This was a unique situation and the government acted to help people who needed the help.
Unfortunately there are more people than ever with no moral compass, who haven't been taught that such behaviour is stealing, that in this life you take what you can get and never have to face any consequences.
This character is stealing off us, not "the government". | |
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| A question of morality on 10:03 - Sep 5 with 2374 views | Best_loser |
More lies and tantrums
A jealous bitter person
20 years in the lib dems 😠|  | | |
| A question of morality on 10:06 - Sep 5 with 2372 views | Catullus |
| A question of morality on 09:57 - Sep 5 by Kerouac |
Unfortunately the system was set up without the usual checks...because the government had to move at speed to save people's incomes due to the lockdown, otherwise we would have created bigger problems, and simply didn't have enough staff or enough time.
This was a unique situation and the government acted to help people who needed the help.
Unfortunately there are more people than ever with no moral compass, who haven't been taught that such behaviour is stealing, that in this life you take what you can get and never have to face any consequences.
This character is stealing off us, not "the government". |
Moving at speed didn't have to mean they couldn't ask for a list of bookings and that they (the government) couldn't check tax returns to see if the claim was even close to honest. That's just negligence, it wouldn't take long to get the HMRC to send the details over. Besides, having acted quickly, why couldn't they issue a warning that any business found making a false claim would have to pay back every penny plus 50% as a fine, and if they couldn't pay then property would be taken in lieu? Harsh maybe but we know people can't be trusted.
There should always be consequences for a crime | |
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| A question of morality on 18:44 - Sep 6 with 2246 views | Kilkennyjack |
Your mate is in the wrong.
You do not go about profiteering in a pandemic.
That said, its total small fry.
These are the real boys to keep an eye on ...
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| A question of morality on 18:48 - Sep 7 with 2117 views | ItchySphincter |
Blame Rishi Shunak. Plenty of this going on whilst millions are excluded from support. The very same people who are excluded will he expected to fund the ‘recovery’. It’s a massive swindle. |  |
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| A question of morality on 18:55 - Sep 7 with 2106 views | Gwyn737 |
| A question of morality on 18:48 - Sep 7 by ItchySphincter |
Blame Rishi Shunak. Plenty of this going on whilst millions are excluded from support. The very same people who are excluded will he expected to fund the ‘recovery’. It’s a massive swindle. |
He wrong. It the fact that he’s a socialist, anti-capitalist and extinction rebellion member (and is politically active) doesn’t make a difference.
It may make him a hypocrite but it doesn’t make it more wrong. | | | |
| A question of morality on 23:40 - Sep 7 with 2054 views | DJack |
| A question of morality on 09:43 - Sep 5 by Kerouac |
I think you are trying to justify theft. |
NOPE.
I think your comprehension is off...
"Thankfully it is nowhere as bad as~"
This indicates that it is bad, just on a smaller scale. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| A question of morality on 07:18 - Sep 8 with 2014 views | pikeypaul |
A local small business that furloughed 22 “staff” although prior to lock down it probably averaged around 6 including the owner and her husband.
Don’t talk about the the various grants and support payments that have been massively abused by people it’s nothing less than theft.I know of various people who have used past virtually redundant companies that have not been operational for sometime to claim many thousands, similar to the OPs post.
The government has been far to generous in trying to help everyone in the hour of need.
OUT
AFLI [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 7:23]
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| A question of morality on 09:11 - Sep 8 with 1984 views | ItchySphincter |
| A question of morality on 07:18 - Sep 8 by pikeypaul |
A local small business that furloughed 22 “staff” although prior to lock down it probably averaged around 6 including the owner and her husband.
Don’t talk about the the various grants and support payments that have been massively abused by people it’s nothing less than theft.I know of various people who have used past virtually redundant companies that have not been operational for sometime to claim many thousands, similar to the OPs post.
The government has been far to generous in trying to help everyone in the hour of need.
OUT
AFLI [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 7:23]
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Crazy how little you know about life. This government has been completely lacking in support of small businesses in some cases, and completely over compensated others. It’s another example of their complete ineptitude and dishonesty that Brexity types eat up all day long. They have come nowhere near to helping everyone but you have no idea because the gullible just fall for the empty rhetoric and spin. You’ll never understand and you’ll never change so it’s almost funny really. Your obvious will to promote lies about everyone being helped is either misguided or plain spiteful, but that is no surprise. So long as we can stop brown people coming here and stealing our jobs...... or summink.  [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 20:01]
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| A question of morality on 11:50 - Sep 8 with 1950 views | ItchySphincter |
| A question of morality on 11:36 - Sep 8 by Catullus |
It's not so much to do with brexity types, it's just Pikey being Pikey!
Some businesses milked the system, others got screwed over, I thought we all knew that. It's been on the news a few times. |
I'm sure you're right but this is government that Brexit gave us. Rishi has been giving more money to people who have money, helping people who can afford to eat out eat out more often whilst people are using food banks, and cutting VAT on things like hotels, which anyone who uses hotels will tell you, isn't being passed on to the customer, so effectively prices have gone up for some of us. Shops that have rateable premises were given 10 grand no questions asked and continued to enjoy bumper sales figures, whilst other businesses that don't require premises but were shut down were given nothing. Company directors who run their own company were excluded from self employed support schemes and were encouraged to apply for universal credit which then in turn classed them as self employed and excluded them on that basis. Directors whose payroll was run annually, which would normally be April were purposely excluded by Rishi putting in a payroll cut off of Feb, which he then altered to March knowing full well he was throwing people in to the hole. The list of crimes is endless yet the very people they are destroying are expected to pay for the recovery whilst they bank billions from betting on the collapse of the pound and letting off the mega-corporations and cronies. Ordinary people voted for this lot because they are sick in the head. Pikey is a great expample of someone with little life experience who knows little and talks a lot. All because of the bloke with the funny hair and the clown car and his mad power grab. talk about having sh!t in your eyes...... | |
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| A question of morality on 12:33 - Sep 8 with 1936 views | Professor |
| A question of morality on 11:51 - Sep 8 by Kerouac |
I'm not talking about empty rhetoric and spin. I'm talking about real world examples.
I know another small businessman (who is much less political, he tends to go for a lot of the woke stuff but couldn't be described as a Socialist in any way) whose business was going bust before Covid struck...his employees didn't know this, on the face of it all was fine...Covid comes along and he was visibly relieved.
He has known from the outset of this that his business won't be returning, it didn't stop him claiming every bit of support he could off the government and living the lifestyle of someone who was successful with OUR cash though.
The government did what they could to help people...if they had not done this the left would have vilified them...and a mass fraud has been conducted by people who spend a lot of time moralising to anyone who will listen but evidently don't know right from wrong.
...and Catullus, do you not realise how much time and staff it would take to administer this help for business given on that scale?
Try and get your head around the task of taking on thousands of extra staff and training them, during Covid (!)...don't you rember the speed at which the financial help needed to be distributed? Remember it wasn't enough or done quick enough in the eyes of many.
The Government were trying to help people who needed the help. They needed to do this because they had taken measures to help everybody as regards their health.
The individuals who abused this help were only helping themselves to our cash. It is they who are immoral. |
I'm going to agree with you. I think the government support has been their one area where they have been generally successful. There is an argument to extend furlough, but this cannot be indefinite either and finding a balance is hard.
I notice 27, 000 cases are being looked at by HMRC. Of course there is also the argument around tax avoidance by large companies and the likes of Rees-Mogg. I pay too much tax for individuals to be gaining unfairly. As you suggest is someone robbed a grand off you in the street, how would you feel?
It's not a left or right political thing, it is a moral decision. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 12:34]
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| A question of morality on 13:39 - Sep 8 with 1898 views | pikeypaul |
fecking love it.
some rsole earler in the thread said this fraud has only come about due to BREXIT.
so its BREXITs fault in the eyes of the remoaners,how surprising,did not take the prick long to make a link.
Going by the remoaners reasoning i assume that if the country had decided to remain in the EU whichever party was now in power would not have introduced furlough or any other of the very generous schemes which has given the opportunity for these fraudsters to operate and steal billions off the country.
Bojo ,should have said feck em let them stand on their own two feet,instead of spoon feeding the ungrateful bar stewards.
OUT
AFLI [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 13:43]
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| A question of morality on 14:08 - Sep 8 with 1881 views | pikeypaul |
| A question of morality on 09:11 - Sep 8 by ItchySphincter |
Crazy how little you know about life. This government has been completely lacking in support of small businesses in some cases, and completely over compensated others. It’s another example of their complete ineptitude and dishonesty that Brexity types eat up all day long. They have come nowhere near to helping everyone but you have no idea because the gullible just fall for the empty rhetoric and spin. You’ll never understand and you’ll never change so it’s almost funny really. Your obvious will to promote lies about everyone being helped is either misguided or plain spiteful, but that is no surprise. So long as we can stop brown people coming here and stealing our jobs...... or summink. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 20:01]
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Heres the tw@t now,
Small business not helped ? you are having a laugh and showing your total lack of knowledge on the huge amounts available very easily exploited,or you just want another snide attack on BOJO.
I know a guy that has not worked more than 3 days in the last 12 months and not through the pandemic but since he does not need to whilst being handed out over £30,000 in various grants,tax credits,and other benefits,simply by having a registered business name,although he makes or sells next to nothing,simply being registered opens the door to a lot of free money.
He simply knows every government grant and help available,runs a company for a year or two,whilst it makes and sells next to nothing,closes it down and does exactly the same
again the following tax year.
OUT
AFLI | |
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| A question of morality on 14:30 - Sep 8 with 1865 views | Catullus |
| A question of morality on 11:50 - Sep 8 by ItchySphincter |
I'm sure you're right but this is government that Brexit gave us. Rishi has been giving more money to people who have money, helping people who can afford to eat out eat out more often whilst people are using food banks, and cutting VAT on things like hotels, which anyone who uses hotels will tell you, isn't being passed on to the customer, so effectively prices have gone up for some of us. Shops that have rateable premises were given 10 grand no questions asked and continued to enjoy bumper sales figures, whilst other businesses that don't require premises but were shut down were given nothing. Company directors who run their own company were excluded from self employed support schemes and were encouraged to apply for universal credit which then in turn classed them as self employed and excluded them on that basis. Directors whose payroll was run annually, which would normally be April were purposely excluded by Rishi putting in a payroll cut off of Feb, which he then altered to March knowing full well he was throwing people in to the hole. The list of crimes is endless yet the very people they are destroying are expected to pay for the recovery whilst they bank billions from betting on the collapse of the pound and letting off the mega-corporations and cronies. Ordinary people voted for this lot because they are sick in the head. Pikey is a great expample of someone with little life experience who knows little and talks a lot. All because of the bloke with the funny hair and the clown car and his mad power grab. talk about having sh!t in your eyes...... |
Hasn't it been that way ever since we started clumping together in communities, the poor end up doing all the work and paying relatively more than the rich people, meanwhile the rich get ever richer?
Were we better off in an agrarian society where we bartered for goods? Money, it always comes back to money, it's evil stuff. | |
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| A question of morality on 15:17 - Sep 8 with 1847 views | ItchySphincter |
| A question of morality on 12:33 - Sep 8 by Professor |
I'm going to agree with you. I think the government support has been their one area where they have been generally successful. There is an argument to extend furlough, but this cannot be indefinite either and finding a balance is hard.
I notice 27, 000 cases are being looked at by HMRC. Of course there is also the argument around tax avoidance by large companies and the likes of Rees-Mogg. I pay too much tax for individuals to be gaining unfairly. As you suggest is someone robbed a grand off you in the street, how would you feel?
It's not a left or right political thing, it is a moral decision. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 12:34]
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Of course it was successful, unless you were one of the excluded. | |
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| A question of morality on 15:24 - Sep 8 with 1844 views | Professor |
| A question of morality on 15:17 - Sep 8 by ItchySphincter |
Of course it was successful, unless you were one of the excluded. |
Generally, not for all. | | | |
| A question of morality on 15:28 - Sep 8 with 1841 views | ItchySphincter |
| A question of morality on 14:08 - Sep 8 by pikeypaul |
Heres the tw@t now,
Small business not helped ? you are having a laugh and showing your total lack of knowledge on the huge amounts available very easily exploited,or you just want another snide attack on BOJO.
I know a guy that has not worked more than 3 days in the last 12 months and not through the pandemic but since he does not need to whilst being handed out over £30,000 in various grants,tax credits,and other benefits,simply by having a registered business name,although he makes or sells next to nothing,simply being registered opens the door to a lot of free money.
He simply knows every government grant and help available,runs a company for a year or two,whilst it makes and sells next to nothing,closes it down and does exactly the same
again the following tax year.
OUT
AFLI |
Nonsense, you clearly have no idea what you’re dribbling on about.  The one thing you got right is that help is disproportionate, therefor people who should not have qualified have qualified - what you are calling fraud, that’s what your government designed. What you are clearly wrong about is how many people were excluded by the same design. Your mates that qualified will have passed any checks the government put in place and will have had to demonstrate a loss of income due to COVID. They’ll also be taxed on those support grants next year. It’s the governments fault they qualified, not their own. Lots of people got help that didn’t need it. Why did Rishi set furlough at 80% up to 2,500 meaning that those that earned more got more? Everyone was entitled to a mortgage holiday so why didn’t everyone get the same? Typical Tory boIIocks - have more, take more, have less, in the hole you go. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 20:02]
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| A question of morality on 15:39 - Sep 8 with 1829 views | ItchySphincter |
| A question of morality on 14:08 - Sep 8 by pikeypaul |
Heres the tw@t now,
Small business not helped ? you are having a laugh and showing your total lack of knowledge on the huge amounts available very easily exploited,or you just want another snide attack on BOJO.
I know a guy that has not worked more than 3 days in the last 12 months and not through the pandemic but since he does not need to whilst being handed out over £30,000 in various grants,tax credits,and other benefits,simply by having a registered business name,although he makes or sells next to nothing,simply being registered opens the door to a lot of free money.
He simply knows every government grant and help available,runs a company for a year or two,whilst it makes and sells next to nothing,closes it down and does exactly the same
again the following tax year.
OUT
AFLI |
I just read this again, just to make sure........
I know it’s unkind to laugh at some people but.........
I should thank you for giving me some amusement today. Cheers. | |
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| A question of morality on 15:52 - Sep 8 with 1824 views | pikeypaul |
So when you are proven wrong and shown to be a know nothing,your only reply is abuse,reminds me of the other loser, bedsit boy.
OUT
AFLI [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 15:55]
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