| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI 13:03 - Sep 29 with 6554 views | onehunglow |
Sense at last.
Court of Appeal upholds the decision not to prosecute soldiers for "bloody Sunday".
God only knows how those soldiers have suffered under this cloud for almost 50 years.
A filthy ,dirty war where they were hung out to dry by a succession of British Governments.
That day is of course now folklore in Londonderry and the IRA supporters are of course livid with the decision.
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:06 - Oct 4 with 601 views | Boundy |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 20:51 - Oct 2 by Kilkennyjack |
Rubbish.
Only one side was fighting for money. And you called it wrong.
The deal that the Republicans got makes a united Ireland possible within a generation.
If a straight majority in the north want it.
It will be the first part of the uk back in the EU. |
Are you sure , towards the middle and latter stages of the conflict money, drugs and gangsterism became so prevalent that N Ireland became known as Sicily Without the Sun. The para militaries who withdrew from taking on the SF towards the end of the conflict used their skills developed over the past decades to enter into the world of smuggling of goods like cigarettes, alcohol and fuel, as well as armed robbery, counterfeiting compact discs and DVD's, and extortion. One mans freedom fighter is another just another crook | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:18 - Oct 4 with 589 views | trampie |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 10:57 - Oct 4 by onehunglow |
In a "war",both side know each other .
In a cowardly ,filthy,guerilla, conflict like Ireland,kids and women used to lure young soldiers to their deaths. Informants and families kneecaped or slaughtered .
This is what IRA did. Its not remotely laudable and the British soldiers showed unblievable restraint over the years.I would argue few other countries armies would have showed such restraint.
And yet,their filth saw army style funerals with the gun pre eminent.
Only the British could shaft the very people that protect them.
The Irish have far greater shame as a country,not least the wholescale,state sponsered child abuse over decades |
I don't think you realise we are talking Cromwell in Ireland in the 1600s, Irish rebellion in 1700s, Irish famine in 1800s and the troubles in 1900s.
Why would they trust the UK ?, I know a paddy and the village he came from he told me that less than 200 years ago (at the time) the British army pulled ever male over 8 years old out of their houses and tortured and killed them, some people call the famine a genocide as the food was taken off them at gun point and last go off they were treated as second class citizens in their own country, so it's ok for you to say they did this and they did that but what did the lot over here do to them first ? |  |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:32 - Oct 4 with 572 views | Kerouac |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 09:23 - Oct 4 by trampie |
Gwynfor was a historian that was and is held in high esteem, that particular book is many pages and is not a quick flick through. |
Gwynfor was a deluded dreamer like you, spreading bullsh*t, telling the stories he'd like to be true.
If he was a decent historian that was worth quoting he will have included his sources, so have a flick through, find the passage, find the source and post it up or shut up. |  |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:35 - Oct 4 with 570 views | trampie |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:06 - Oct 4 by Boundy |
Are you sure , towards the middle and latter stages of the conflict money, drugs and gangsterism became so prevalent that N Ireland became known as Sicily Without the Sun. The para militaries who withdrew from taking on the SF towards the end of the conflict used their skills developed over the past decades to enter into the world of smuggling of goods like cigarettes, alcohol and fuel, as well as armed robbery, counterfeiting compact discs and DVD's, and extortion. One mans freedom fighter is another just another crook |
The gangsterism was shocking, I don't take sides per se, I'm Welsh not English or Irish and don't think we should be out there, it's a basket case of a place.
From what I heard the gangsterism was particularly bad amongst the loyalists and got worse and worse amongst the Republicans. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:41 - Oct 4 with 560 views | trampie |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:32 - Oct 4 by Kerouac |
Gwynfor was a deluded dreamer like you, spreading bullsh*t, telling the stories he'd like to be true.
If he was a decent historian that was worth quoting he will have included his sources, so have a flick through, find the passage, find the source and post it up or shut up. |
Bede
Top historian Gwynfor. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:48 - Oct 4 with 555 views | Kerouac |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 10:36 - Oct 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Welsh soldiers should not be deployed into war situations without the approval of the welsh government.
You seem to be suggesting that they were in the north of Ireland representing the welsh government or the welsh people. They were not.
Poverty in wales is the main recruiting driver for the British Army.
The right wing Tory fascists are taking the uk nearer and nearer to 1930s Germany. To suggest that the progressive modern inclusive nationalism of Plaid Cymru is somehow right wing Is quite bonkers. |
You may wish the United Kingdom did not exist, but it does...and Welsh people are happy to be a part of the United Kingdom.
When the actual fascists came a knocking Welsh and Irish nationalists showed their true colours, either openly siding with the fascists or maintaining ambivalence in the main, so blinded by hate of the United Kingdom.
The same hate that drives you and Tramp.
Why do you even live here if you hate the UK so much?
You can live in Ireland, inside your precious EU.
I grew up around soldiers who had served in N. Ireland. They were Welsh, English and Irish...more Irish in their ranks than you would think. More Irish Catholics in their ranks than you would think (often the sons of Irish Catholics who had emigrated to the UK.
All thoroughly decent people.
They weren't engaged in a war! In a war they would have crushed the republicans, absolutely decimated them.
It was their lot to act as a security force to combat people blinded by hate from blowing up civilians...they got no thanks for putting their lives on the line, for doing their duty, but they did win in the end...which is why the pitiful Republicans had to come to the table and pretend they were decent people. That's why you have your peace.
Answer this, if Brexit is bound to speed up the UK breaking apart, if the demographics mean that you Republicans are on the 'right side of history' why is it that Brexit makes you so, so, angry?
I put it to you that deep down in your soul you realise that once the UK leaves the EU and the Irish in N. Ireland are forced to choose. They will choose to be British. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:58 - Oct 4 with 547 views | trampie |
What they choose might depend who is doing the best at the time, the Irish state or the UK state.
The last poll I seen said they would vote to leave the UK, so it's not cut and dried at this stage. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:08 - Oct 4 with 535 views | Boundy |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 10:36 - Oct 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Welsh soldiers should not be deployed into war situations without the approval of the welsh government.
You seem to be suggesting that they were in the north of Ireland representing the welsh government or the welsh people. They were not.
Poverty in wales is the main recruiting driver for the British Army.
The right wing Tory fascists are taking the uk nearer and nearer to 1930s Germany. To suggest that the progressive modern inclusive nationalism of Plaid Cymru is somehow right wing Is quite bonkers. |
Two points if I may
The title British Army means just that , Mark Drakeford is not the head of the Armed Forces, the Queen and her representative government is , Should that change then you may have a point.
Secondly Poverty in wales is the main recruiting driver for the British Army, you obviously do not know that Wales infantry representation is now down to one Regular regiment instead of two which means effectively less Welshmen/women are not given the to escape the poverty which seemingly exists. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:15 - Oct 4 with 521 views | trampie |
Escape poverty only to be turfed out and abandoned at a later date with possible other issues on top, it might be just kicking the can done the road, the UK Government need to look after ex squaddies better than they do. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:16 - Oct 4 with 516 views | Boundy |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:35 - Oct 4 by trampie |
The gangsterism was shocking, I don't take sides per se, I'm Welsh not English or Irish and don't think we should be out there, it's a basket case of a place.
From what I heard the gangsterism was particularly bad amongst the loyalists and got worse and worse amongst the Republicans. |
We're out there because the province is part of the UK , its all well and good saying we should leave , does that include Protestants (48% of the resident population are either Protestant, or brought up Protestant ) and consider quite rightly that N Ireland is their home , how would you displace that size of the population ?.
You consider yourself as being Welsh as I do but I would bet that somewhere along your ancestral ladder your family were not born here and you wouldn't have to go back that far to confirm it either | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:20 - Oct 4 with 511 views | onehunglow |
Excellent point about poverty being a driving force .It was such in
Police where I had several Irish catholics under my supervision .All great lads ,all looking for secure future and saw it outside Londonderry and all the bigotry and hate.
None of course could possibly return to NI .
Hatred of English and England seems more a driving force of love of Ireland .
Get the fook out if you despise this Union | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:31 - Oct 4 with 502 views | trampie |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:16 - Oct 4 by Boundy |
We're out there because the province is part of the UK , its all well and good saying we should leave , does that include Protestants (48% of the resident population are either Protestant, or brought up Protestant ) and consider quite rightly that N Ireland is their home , how would you displace that size of the population ?.
You consider yourself as being Welsh as I do but I would bet that somewhere along your ancestral ladder your family were not born here and you wouldn't have to go back that far to confirm it either |
Ireland is Ireland, immigrants need to tow the line and assimilate.
I would not be surprised if there was non Welsh in my family tree although I'm not aware of that but you never know, it makes no difference, immigrants need to assimilate to rules, regulations and how the oldest surviving indigenous people live on that patch. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:32 - Oct 4 with 497 views | Boundy |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:15 - Oct 4 by trampie |
Escape poverty only to be turfed out and abandoned at a later date with possible other issues on top, it might be just kicking the can done the road, the UK Government need to look after ex squaddies better than they do. |
I joined in 1972 but not out of so called poverty , there were more jobs to had in Swansea than at anytime since, Wilfred Beckerman estimated that 9.9% of the British population lived below a standardised poverty line in 1973 no mobile phones no internet, smart TVs todays poverty consists exactly of what today ? .The raise in poverty has been and will continue to be linked to the raise in the population which due to successive governments on both sides need for cheap labour from abroad has meant that wages are kept low meaning standards of living decline . All Governments need to take care of their ex service men and imo that should take precedent over those from abroad who jump the queue . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:35 - Oct 4 with 495 views | Kerouac |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 11:41 - Oct 4 by trampie |
Bede
Top historian Gwynfor. |
Bede 731AD.
OK.
Which of Bede's works does he reference and which conflict is he referring to re: Welsh soldiers contrasted against English soldiers?
"When the Welsh was fighting the Germanic hordes the Welsh noted that the English fought for land, possessions, money etc (which is the case with most invaders) whereas the Welsh was fighting for their family, friends, culture, way of life."
- Trampie [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 12:37]
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:43 - Oct 4 with 484 views | onehunglow |
What disturbs me K is how some reacted after the bombing outrages. I’m on sticky ground here as I have to be careful what I say but it puzzles me that soldiers in battle against a feral mob are pilloried and hung out to dry whereas those who made and planed the bombs are lauded or their cause justifying it all.
I’ve plenty of experience of bomb calls and I cannot have anything but lifetime hate for those who were doing it and/or for their cause,no matter how justified, Big difference between Bloody Sunday and say the Warrington or Omaha bombs ,which are still unsolved.
Q | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:46 - Oct 4 with 480 views | Boundy |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:31 - Oct 4 by trampie |
Ireland is Ireland, immigrants need to tow the line and assimilate.
I would not be surprised if there was non Welsh in my family tree although I'm not aware of that but you never know, it makes no difference, immigrants need to assimilate to rules, regulations and how the oldest surviving indigenous people live on that patch. |
Interesting" immigrants need to tow the line and assimilate" or " immigrants need to assimilate to rules" .What does that mean exactly what rules what lines ?
Just how far back do you go before you consider when does an immigrant becomes indigenous . It make no difference to you that could be English.Scottish etc but it does if you're Protestant (which is a religion rather than a race by the way ) or non Catholic | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:53 - Oct 4 with 469 views | trampie |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:46 - Oct 4 by Boundy |
Interesting" immigrants need to tow the line and assimilate" or " immigrants need to assimilate to rules" .What does that mean exactly what rules what lines ?
Just how far back do you go before you consider when does an immigrant becomes indigenous . It make no difference to you that could be English.Scottish etc but it does if you're Protestant (which is a religion rather than a race by the way ) or non Catholic |
Oh I'm not a left footer butt, Catholic is a foreign religion to me, where I come from there are next to no left footers, no church for them, two immigrant families whose children were bussed out to go to school and that's all I remember. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 13:04 - Oct 4 with 453 views | Boundy |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:53 - Oct 4 by trampie |
Oh I'm not a left footer butt, Catholic is a foreign religion to me, where I come from there are next to no left footers, no church for them, two immigrant families whose children were bussed out to go to school and that's all I remember. |
I never assumed you were .I couldn't tell who was what in my village when I was growing nor so now, so I'm not sure what relevance this has to our conversation .I will say that I treated and still do people as I would wish to be treated regardless of where they're from or perceived to be.
I'm still not sure what you mean by assimilation thought? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 13:32 - Oct 4 with 437 views | trampie |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 13:04 - Oct 4 by Boundy |
I never assumed you were .I couldn't tell who was what in my village when I was growing nor so now, so I'm not sure what relevance this has to our conversation .I will say that I treated and still do people as I would wish to be treated regardless of where they're from or perceived to be.
I'm still not sure what you mean by assimilation thought? |
All chapel up with me, (like nearly all of Wales) CoE might well have been outside the village/town boundary and I never knew of a Catholic place it turns out that there was a tin sheet shack the other end of town, non conformists held sway, the British Army apparently had Muslim religious leaders, Jewish leaders, Catholic leaders in before they allowed Welsh ministers in, they did not trust them, lol.
Assimilation is very important, ideally I don't think it's a good thing immigrants not becoming part of the community they move too otherwise it can cause mistrust and division.
PS When in Rome do as the Romans do. [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 13:40]
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 13:51 - Oct 4 with 426 views | Boundy |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 13:32 - Oct 4 by trampie |
All chapel up with me, (like nearly all of Wales) CoE might well have been outside the village/town boundary and I never knew of a Catholic place it turns out that there was a tin sheet shack the other end of town, non conformists held sway, the British Army apparently had Muslim religious leaders, Jewish leaders, Catholic leaders in before they allowed Welsh ministers in, they did not trust them, lol.
Assimilation is very important, ideally I don't think it's a good thing immigrants not becoming part of the community they move too otherwise it can cause mistrust and division.
PS When in Rome do as the Romans do. [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 13:40]
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Each to their own. IMO religion has been and will continue to have a negative impact on peoples lives so I don't hold much truck with any of it , bigotry and non forgiveness thrive in most religions . The Church in Wales has been present in the British Army for a number of years and was recognised when I served all those years ago and was definitely more prevalent than the others as church parade was mandatory during training and for most used as an excuse to skive off for an hour . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 13:59 - Oct 4 with 418 views | trampie |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 13:51 - Oct 4 by Boundy |
Each to their own. IMO religion has been and will continue to have a negative impact on peoples lives so I don't hold much truck with any of it , bigotry and non forgiveness thrive in most religions . The Church in Wales has been present in the British Army for a number of years and was recognised when I served all those years ago and was definitely more prevalent than the others as church parade was mandatory during training and for most used as an excuse to skive off for an hour . |
I'm going back years, they would not have a solely Welsh regiment back in the day either, they did trust us (which way we point the guns I guess lol).
I agree with you on religion, those Christians coming over here with their new modern religion telling people they did not have to make sacrifices to the Gods and that they could even worship indoors and then the cheeky buggers stole half of the pagans festivals - I will stick to the Pagans myself. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 14:00 - Oct 4 with 418 views | Kerouac |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 12:42 - Oct 4 by trampie |
Buy his works yourself.  |
By "German hordes" you meant the Anglo-Saxon invaders didn't you.
The description you gave;
"When the Welsh was fighting the Germanic hordes the Welsh noted that the English fought for land, possessions, money etc (which is the case with most invaders) whereas the Welsh was fighting for their family, friends, culture, way of life."
...merely describes the dynamics of every invading force and defending force in history. It has no value as regards Welsh vs English.
The loser/dreamer/nationalist/pacifist (when it suited him) you held up as a historian is nothing of the sort.
Your world view is built on sand. | |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 14:15 - Oct 4 with 407 views | Boundy |
| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 13:59 - Oct 4 by trampie |
I'm going back years, they would not have a solely Welsh regiment back in the day either, they did trust us (which way we point the guns I guess lol).
I agree with you on religion, those Christians coming over here with their new modern religion telling people they did not have to make sacrifices to the Gods and that they could even worship indoors and then the cheeky buggers stole half of the pagans festivals - I will stick to the Pagans myself. |
The oldest Welsh infantry regiment The Royal Welch Fusiliers (23rd of foot) was raised in 1689 so for over 300 hundred centuries we the welsh soldier was trusted enough to defend the country . The rest of the religious aspect of your post I must admit to have skipped over | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Decision upheld not to prosecute soldiers in NI on 14:24 - Oct 4 with 405 views | onehunglow |
Tramp me ol mucker,you need to consider relocating to Cork,Galway or Connemara .It must be murder for you to live in Great Britain and all that it entails. | |
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