| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust 14:10 - Nov 8 with 4964 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Personal View point from a third party fan.
The Trust have to opportunity to review their strategy with regard to legal action which I am strongly against. The personality clashes which led to this scenario are no long relevant with the main protagonists now with no legal role.
The Trusts strategy has run for four years since the 2016 sale. This is one of consideration of litigation. Recent reports have greatly affected the merits of this strategy. There is inflation in football and general inflation in life. If you have cash you must be aware of this phenomena. Generally prices from bygone years are not good value today because of inflation.
Recent reports indicate a £200m bid for Burnely a struggling Premier leage club. Burnley is smaller than Swansea with a smaller fan base and an older stadium and a basic game plan. 100% inflation since 2016.
Recent reports indicate a £60m bid for Derby County a struggling Championship club similar to Swansea in many ways with a weaker playing squad and no stadium owned by them if not included. 50% inflation since 2016.
The Trust will sue on the basis of the 2016 price of £21m. Becasue the Trust have managed their financial affairs poorly they cannot afford this legal action and therefore will have to pay eye watering sums for funding and risk taking. Even with a win they will walk away with around £12m to £14m before tax. This is not good business and it would without doubt lead to severe austerty at the club with redundancies for local people and the almost inevitable closure of the academy. The criteria for carrying out legal action no longer apply. Rampant asset stripping has not occured and the team is stronger not weaker than two seasons ago.
If you assume the club is equitable with Derby County at £60m. 21% of £60m gives a valuation of £12.6m. This has inflated from around £8m in 2016. This means legal action at a 2016 price would only see a mark up of only £1.4m on today's Championship price after deductions and actually even less if costs are greater than anticipated (dealing with counter suing or appeals for example).
If Swansea returned to the Premier league which might be a 15-20% chance the Trust s valuation would be 21% of £200m which is a staggering £42m for a £200k investment. A 210 times mark up.
If the club returns to the Premier League the Trust will regret taking legal action big time. I call on their leaders to come to a settlement with the club owners before they drop a major financial ricket. Inflation kills all that do not take it seriously.
|  |
| |  |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 17:06 - Nov 9 with 753 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 16:16 - Nov 9 by Catullus |
Again you ignore that the trust were deliberately kept in the dark about the sale. How could the trust sell when they were kept unaware there was a buyer?
The QC said it was a last resort because he had exhausted all other avenues, not because it was a hail mary pass. The trust tried to do it in a pragmatic way to avoid the courts and the massive expenses that follow. Now they have no other choice, that is why it's a last resort, not because they don't have a case.
Besides which you seem to be saying the trust should wait to see if we get promoted because it;s a better financial outcome if we do...why is that? It seems to go against other things you've said. |
The Trust were reportedly asked if they wanted to sell in 2016 before the deal was made according to the US people and got no reply. Another attempt was made in 2017 and after the US made an improved deal the Trust's team disintegrated in a raw and acrimonious atmosphere according to reports in the Western Mail, The Trust also had 4 months to request joining the sale in the summer of 2016. They knew and had spoken to the buyer but came to no decsion as to what they wanted.
The Trust could easily have sold at least some of their shares. Selling half would have been good business with £10m in the bank and £11m for potential growth.
As it turned out the club was relegated. The share price dropped from £21m to £8m. The Derby sale indicates it may be now worth £12-13m. This is potentially more than what would be recovered from a sucessful legal case, without the bad feeling generated, potential harm to the club, considerable inconvenience to the people entrusted with running the club, and the needless greasing of London third party ambulance chasers. As a Welshman I find that particularly distasteful.
With the club playing well the upside is enormous. A potential value of £42m. This is no place for amateur fans with a grudge but serious people with a hard headed approach to money and serious potential gains of mind boggling scale. This is why I advise an independent financial assessment to look at the facts.
Legal action would wth out doubt, lower the chances of promotion, see closure of the academy and job redundancies. For what? | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 17:32 - Nov 9 with 742 views | Chief |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 17:06 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The Trust were reportedly asked if they wanted to sell in 2016 before the deal was made according to the US people and got no reply. Another attempt was made in 2017 and after the US made an improved deal the Trust's team disintegrated in a raw and acrimonious atmosphere according to reports in the Western Mail, The Trust also had 4 months to request joining the sale in the summer of 2016. They knew and had spoken to the buyer but came to no decsion as to what they wanted.
The Trust could easily have sold at least some of their shares. Selling half would have been good business with £10m in the bank and £11m for potential growth.
As it turned out the club was relegated. The share price dropped from £21m to £8m. The Derby sale indicates it may be now worth £12-13m. This is potentially more than what would be recovered from a sucessful legal case, without the bad feeling generated, potential harm to the club, considerable inconvenience to the people entrusted with running the club, and the needless greasing of London third party ambulance chasers. As a Welshman I find that particularly distasteful.
With the club playing well the upside is enormous. A potential value of £42m. This is no place for amateur fans with a grudge but serious people with a hard headed approach to money and serious potential gains of mind boggling scale. This is why I advise an independent financial assessment to look at the facts.
Legal action would wth out doubt, lower the chances of promotion, see closure of the academy and job redundancies. For what? |
- if that's true why did levein or kaplan admit (on camera) that the trust were kept out of the sale? It can't be refuted that they admitted that.
- you'll have to find a link for that Western Mail story about this 4 month window. If that is true then there's little basis for the trusts case&QC wouldn't have said it was a good case. So that seems skeptical to me. Also strange that you've never brought that up until now given its importance.
- The bits about improved terms / what they offered / the acrimonious atmosphere is all conjecture - fact is they made an offer and it was rescinded. That's all we know for sure on that. Logic implies it wasn't 'improved terms' though.
- Would it really be easy to sell the trusts shares? I can't see how buying that amount of shares and having no say in the running of the club would be that appealing to anyone. At least two sets of Americans were interested in buying the club but neither bid for the trusts shares during that time.
- Could be potentially less, the court could possibly account for inflation. Plus again, just like there's never been an obvious buyer. Where the neccesary legal personnel are from is not relevant at all. Did the Americans use a local firm when they took Swansea council to court and lost?
- Using your words - a sale with such a mark up "can never be seen as a bad deal".
- Blatant scaremongering. It wouldn't affect on field performances one bit - the players have a contract and they'll get paid no matter who owns the trusts shares. Nice try though.
- Ah that old chestnut. So these Americans who were reassured hadn't and won't take money out of the club, are actually going to start doing just that then are they? Flat out deliberate conflation of the facts there. The Americans will have to pay for the shares out of their own pocket. |  |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 17:43 - Nov 9 with 737 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 16:52 - Nov 9 by Chief |
Yea but Resolven is so deluded, biased and blinkered, he refuses to concede that there was anything wrong by the way the sellouts / Americans acted. He says the trust should have advertised themselves for sale. Not sure why they would have wanted to do that at the time mind. There's also no evidence that the sell outs formally put their shares up for sale either but there we are.
Indeed and if the trust had rushed into the case gung go, Resolven would be criticising that too.
I think he means wait to get promoted to sell the shares to someone. Not sure whod be overly interested in buying at a maximum 21% of the club and no controlling stake mind. And at Premier league prices after or during a pandemic.
But its another straw he's clutched as an alternative to legal action.
He seems very worked up for some reason. |
The sellers were asked in 2016 if they wanted to sell their shares. Thay all said YES. The Americans then asked the Trust later and they gave no reply. This was taken as a NO.
Its as simple as that. They were given a second chance in 2017 but blew that as well.
The Trust needed to sell then as they holding was classed as "very high risk" and that was the common sense thing to do, and the advice they woud have been given by almost all financial advisers.
I have presented a compelling case for not taking legal action. The Trust can put their shares up for sale and make huge profits in the Premier league down the line with or without consent of the Americans who might make an offer themselves. Alternatively they could agree a drag on or tag on agreements.
The QC said the Trust had a good case to win in curt but that was a 'last resort'. Ian Walsh would make a 'good case' for Swansea getting promoted. Swings and roundabouts. Personally I think the Trust should play its chance on grass not the court room
Big investors like Pension funds rarely want to have a controlling interest. You are speculating outside you pay grade again. The Russian investor in Arsenal has no clout but is well placed to takeover when the inciumbant wants to sell up, He is building a stake.
I am very keen the Trust do not get a bad deal while at the same time harming the club and club staff to enrich vested intersts not related to the club. I do not much care for the old Trust but there has been a new broom. Big increases in share prices today with good news on potential vaccines. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 18:06 - Nov 9 with 734 views | Chief |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 17:43 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The sellers were asked in 2016 if they wanted to sell their shares. Thay all said YES. The Americans then asked the Trust later and they gave no reply. This was taken as a NO.
Its as simple as that. They were given a second chance in 2017 but blew that as well.
The Trust needed to sell then as they holding was classed as "very high risk" and that was the common sense thing to do, and the advice they woud have been given by almost all financial advisers.
I have presented a compelling case for not taking legal action. The Trust can put their shares up for sale and make huge profits in the Premier league down the line with or without consent of the Americans who might make an offer themselves. Alternatively they could agree a drag on or tag on agreements.
The QC said the Trust had a good case to win in curt but that was a 'last resort'. Ian Walsh would make a 'good case' for Swansea getting promoted. Swings and roundabouts. Personally I think the Trust should play its chance on grass not the court room
Big investors like Pension funds rarely want to have a controlling interest. You are speculating outside you pay grade again. The Russian investor in Arsenal has no clout but is well placed to takeover when the inciumbant wants to sell up, He is building a stake.
I am very keen the Trust do not get a bad deal while at the same time harming the club and club staff to enrich vested intersts not related to the club. I do not much care for the old Trust but there has been a new broom. Big increases in share prices today with good news on potential vaccines. |
- Right so the trust were excluded from the sale then. Thanks for clarifying that.
- Yes the Americans did eventually make some sort of offer (conflicting accounts as to how much they offered), they did then rescind it.
- Yet again.... Sell to who? As I've repeatedly told you there wasn't much interest and the ones that were declined to bid for the trusts shares. And of course as a supporters trust (you keep ignoring what they are and just assuming they are some venture capitalist body) why would they have wanted to sell? They were part of the club, on the board and had a great relationship with the then majority owners.
- You've literally clutched at every straw possible to attack the trust and deter them from the legal action. Compelling it certainly hasn't been.
- Ian Walsh could make a case for us getting promoted but has he or anyone else made it? No. The QC made his decision 'when the season had finished'. To use your analogy. Even success on the pitch doesn't mean the trust selling them.
- why wouldn't the Americans just buy the shares now if they wanted them then? Saves them paying legal fees.
- haha above my pay grade but presumably not above yours? Belittle me all you want but the proof is in the pudding. Its a fact no one took any interest (and theres no reason why anyone would in the event of us getting promoted) in buying 21% at most. Haha comparing us to Arsenal. Well done.
- Surely 'big investors' would rather a bigger stake or probably a bigger entity.
And anyway, if you're so convinced the trust are going to lose, but we are going to get promoted what harm is there in going to court?
Yes some legal fees will be expended but the trust will have their shares ready for when they receive all these huge bids which will far outweigh the legal costs. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 18:39 - Nov 9 with 722 views | BillyChong |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 17:43 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The sellers were asked in 2016 if they wanted to sell their shares. Thay all said YES. The Americans then asked the Trust later and they gave no reply. This was taken as a NO.
Its as simple as that. They were given a second chance in 2017 but blew that as well.
The Trust needed to sell then as they holding was classed as "very high risk" and that was the common sense thing to do, and the advice they woud have been given by almost all financial advisers.
I have presented a compelling case for not taking legal action. The Trust can put their shares up for sale and make huge profits in the Premier league down the line with or without consent of the Americans who might make an offer themselves. Alternatively they could agree a drag on or tag on agreements.
The QC said the Trust had a good case to win in curt but that was a 'last resort'. Ian Walsh would make a 'good case' for Swansea getting promoted. Swings and roundabouts. Personally I think the Trust should play its chance on grass not the court room
Big investors like Pension funds rarely want to have a controlling interest. You are speculating outside you pay grade again. The Russian investor in Arsenal has no clout but is well placed to takeover when the inciumbant wants to sell up, He is building a stake.
I am very keen the Trust do not get a bad deal while at the same time harming the club and club staff to enrich vested intersts not related to the club. I do not much care for the old Trust but there has been a new broom. Big increases in share prices today with good news on potential vaccines. |
Where is the hard evidence that the club were offered involvement in the sale to the
Americans? Your hearsay doesn’t count. |  | | |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 18:43 - Nov 9 with 721 views | BillyChong |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 17:43 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The sellers were asked in 2016 if they wanted to sell their shares. Thay all said YES. The Americans then asked the Trust later and they gave no reply. This was taken as a NO.
Its as simple as that. They were given a second chance in 2017 but blew that as well.
The Trust needed to sell then as they holding was classed as "very high risk" and that was the common sense thing to do, and the advice they woud have been given by almost all financial advisers.
I have presented a compelling case for not taking legal action. The Trust can put their shares up for sale and make huge profits in the Premier league down the line with or without consent of the Americans who might make an offer themselves. Alternatively they could agree a drag on or tag on agreements.
The QC said the Trust had a good case to win in curt but that was a 'last resort'. Ian Walsh would make a 'good case' for Swansea getting promoted. Swings and roundabouts. Personally I think the Trust should play its chance on grass not the court room
Big investors like Pension funds rarely want to have a controlling interest. You are speculating outside you pay grade again. The Russian investor in Arsenal has no clout but is well placed to takeover when the inciumbant wants to sell up, He is building a stake.
I am very keen the Trust do not get a bad deal while at the same time harming the club and club staff to enrich vested intersts not related to the club. I do not much care for the old Trust but there has been a new broom. Big increases in share prices today with good news on potential vaccines. |
Pfft hilarious attempt at trying to show your financial nouse with that last sentence. Fantastic inside knowledge. Genius. Where can i follow your trading advice? And you claim others are speaking above their pay grade. Clown. | | | |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 20:45 - Nov 9 with 696 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 18:43 - Nov 9 by BillyChong |
Pfft hilarious attempt at trying to show your financial nouse with that last sentence. Fantastic inside knowledge. Genius. Where can i follow your trading advice? And you claim others are speaking above their pay grade. Clown. |
OK wise guy try this. The FT100 up 5% today on good vaccines news British airways up 30%, The wonderful Trust are getting 0.15% per year. That means the FT index is up 33 times as much in one day what the dimwits in the Trust are getting in one year. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 20:51 - Nov 9 with 692 views | Chief |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 20:45 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
OK wise guy try this. The FT100 up 5% today on good vaccines news British airways up 30%, The wonderful Trust are getting 0.15% per year. That means the FT index is up 33 times as much in one day what the dimwits in the Trust are getting in one year. |
Ignoring my question? | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 21:11 - Nov 9 with 686 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 20:51 - Nov 9 by Chief |
Ignoring my question? |
Please re phrase your question such that it makes sense and Iwill endeavour to answer it. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 21:17 - Nov 9 with 683 views | Catullus |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 20:45 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
OK wise guy try this. The FT100 up 5% today on good vaccines news British airways up 30%, The wonderful Trust are getting 0.15% per year. That means the FT index is up 33 times as much in one day what the dimwits in the Trust are getting in one year. |
Whathas the FT got to do with it? The Swans aren't on the stock exchange. exchange is a massive gamble.
The Ft is just a diversionary argument and as the Americans have publicly admitted the trust were excluded from the sale, what argument do you have that they should have sold?
Lots of twisting and turning going on and your arguments have been blown away.
Besides my thinking the legal action could be an unwanted diversion, has anybody agreed with your reasoning? | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 21:19 - Nov 9 with 682 views | Chief |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 21:11 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Please re phrase your question such that it makes sense and Iwill endeavour to answer it. |
I'll spell it out for you:
- You say you think the trust will lose the case.
- You say we have a good chance of promotion.
- You say the trust can sell their shares for big money in the Prem.
Therefore, why are you so against legal action? You think they'll lose anyway so will retain their shares. Ready to sell in the event of promotion. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 22:12 - Nov 9 with 668 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 21:17 - Nov 9 by Catullus |
Whathas the FT got to do with it? The Swans aren't on the stock exchange. exchange is a massive gamble.
The Ft is just a diversionary argument and as the Americans have publicly admitted the trust were excluded from the sale, what argument do you have that they should have sold?
Lots of twisting and turning going on and your arguments have been blown away.
Besides my thinking the legal action could be an unwanted diversion, has anybody agreed with your reasoning? |
Crickey this is fun. I have to teach the membership of this forum on basic sensible financial management. I am such a nice bloke I even suggested a 'Financial Q and A' guest page on this great forum.
The Ft 100 is not a massive gamble. It goes up and down but in general it goes up and is a safer and better investment than your house even with buy to rent. That is a fact.
The biggest gamble of all in investment is struggling small football teams where Swansea city have resided for some time. Its boom or bust for them worse the gold mining stocks. As it happens Swansea city was boom not bust The Trust had a 100x mark up a £20m profit but did not sell despite encouragement. HJ played an absolute blinder for 14 years and is loved by the other shareholders. The Trust prefered not to sell and said so. Bad call.
The famility running Stoke city are £180m in debt and stll below Swansea in the league. That how they outbid Swansea for Joe Allen. They borrowed the money.
The level of financial naiivity is absolutely staggering to me. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 22:22 - Nov 9 with 664 views | Chief |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 22:12 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Crickey this is fun. I have to teach the membership of this forum on basic sensible financial management. I am such a nice bloke I even suggested a 'Financial Q and A' guest page on this great forum.
The Ft 100 is not a massive gamble. It goes up and down but in general it goes up and is a safer and better investment than your house even with buy to rent. That is a fact.
The biggest gamble of all in investment is struggling small football teams where Swansea city have resided for some time. Its boom or bust for them worse the gold mining stocks. As it happens Swansea city was boom not bust The Trust had a 100x mark up a £20m profit but did not sell despite encouragement. HJ played an absolute blinder for 14 years and is loved by the other shareholders. The Trust prefered not to sell and said so. Bad call.
The famility running Stoke city are £180m in debt and stll below Swansea in the league. That how they outbid Swansea for Joe Allen. They borrowed the money.
The level of financial naiivity is absolutely staggering to me. |
Plenty of (diversionary) patronising waffle in there but you haven't actually answered his questions have you?
While still ignoring mine... | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 22:39 - Nov 9 with 659 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 21:19 - Nov 9 by Chief |
I'll spell it out for you:
- You say you think the trust will lose the case.
- You say we have a good chance of promotion.
- You say the trust can sell their shares for big money in the Prem.
Therefore, why are you so against legal action? You think they'll lose anyway so will retain their shares. Ready to sell in the event of promotion. |
As I explained to you before. The £8m deficit heading to London town will have to come from somewhere and that is the owners pockets. They will obviously try to get it back as sooner rather than later so as not to annoy their fellow investors with a cash call.
They have to hit annual targets and this will result in.
a) Closing the academy £2m pa (with redundancies)
b) Otherwise unnecessary job redundancies
c) Selling of extra players at discounted prices.
d) Season ticket and other ticket prices will rise.
e) Selling of club property if available.
This will naturally reduce the teams short term and long term prospects. You will say nothing to do with me. I say deal the hand you are dealt.
There is no free lunch for a win or probably a loss. Hit the owner and it will affect the club. This is obvious.
You do not know the terms of the funders although you aparently you voted for legal action anyway. There have been two years of negiocation I believe because the funders may want protection. This could see them compensated in club shares for a court defeat.
The funders have to factor the fact that volunteers will have to go to bat for them in court and it is very stressfull for the untrained in front of a skilled lawyer. There are several statement that suggest the Trust preference was not selling even when a protential sale was announced. I have just checked myself and found these statements.
This is my reasoning. I have done my best to direct the Trust away form the "last resort" outlining very much better alternatives with reasonable estimated numbers. I cannot help those who are financially illiterate. Its too late for them. I can only direct them to the local Coral shop. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 06:38 - Nov 10 with 632 views | Chief |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 22:39 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
As I explained to you before. The £8m deficit heading to London town will have to come from somewhere and that is the owners pockets. They will obviously try to get it back as sooner rather than later so as not to annoy their fellow investors with a cash call.
They have to hit annual targets and this will result in.
a) Closing the academy £2m pa (with redundancies)
b) Otherwise unnecessary job redundancies
c) Selling of extra players at discounted prices.
d) Season ticket and other ticket prices will rise.
e) Selling of club property if available.
This will naturally reduce the teams short term and long term prospects. You will say nothing to do with me. I say deal the hand you are dealt.
There is no free lunch for a win or probably a loss. Hit the owner and it will affect the club. This is obvious.
You do not know the terms of the funders although you aparently you voted for legal action anyway. There have been two years of negiocation I believe because the funders may want protection. This could see them compensated in club shares for a court defeat.
The funders have to factor the fact that volunteers will have to go to bat for them in court and it is very stressfull for the untrained in front of a skilled lawyer. There are several statement that suggest the Trust preference was not selling even when a protential sale was announced. I have just checked myself and found these statements.
This is my reasoning. I have done my best to direct the Trust away form the "last resort" outlining very much better alternatives with reasonable estimated numbers. I cannot help those who are financially illiterate. Its too late for them. I can only direct them to the local Coral shop. |
You are describing a (far fetched), scenario there again in the event of a trust win. I didn't ask that. You've said you don't think they have a good case. So by your logic the trust are going to lose. This mean they'll retain their shares and be able to sell them at a big price when we get promoted.
So why are you so against legal action? | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 07:04 - Nov 10 with 629 views | Chief |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 22:39 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
As I explained to you before. The £8m deficit heading to London town will have to come from somewhere and that is the owners pockets. They will obviously try to get it back as sooner rather than later so as not to annoy their fellow investors with a cash call.
They have to hit annual targets and this will result in.
a) Closing the academy £2m pa (with redundancies)
b) Otherwise unnecessary job redundancies
c) Selling of extra players at discounted prices.
d) Season ticket and other ticket prices will rise.
e) Selling of club property if available.
This will naturally reduce the teams short term and long term prospects. You will say nothing to do with me. I say deal the hand you are dealt.
There is no free lunch for a win or probably a loss. Hit the owner and it will affect the club. This is obvious.
You do not know the terms of the funders although you aparently you voted for legal action anyway. There have been two years of negiocation I believe because the funders may want protection. This could see them compensated in club shares for a court defeat.
The funders have to factor the fact that volunteers will have to go to bat for them in court and it is very stressfull for the untrained in front of a skilled lawyer. There are several statement that suggest the Trust preference was not selling even when a protential sale was announced. I have just checked myself and found these statements.
This is my reasoning. I have done my best to direct the Trust away form the "last resort" outlining very much better alternatives with reasonable estimated numbers. I cannot help those who are financially illiterate. Its too late for them. I can only direct them to the local Coral shop. |
It would be good if you could answer my previous question but I will critique this reply too:
- Where has this £8mill figure come from?
- Why are you confusing money in Swansea City football club's accounts with money in the personal bank accounts of Kaplan etc? That's where the money for the trusts shares will come from.
- As experienced investors I'd have thought they'd have already budgeted for this eventually - especially as you say they've already made similar value bids to the trust in the last few years.
- Why the need for a cash call?
- unless they are already siphoning off club funds how can a - e logically result from them having to buy shares from their own pocket?
- so you think the Americans will deliberately handicap the club by stealing its funds. This then logically could see us drop down the divisions. How do they intend to recoup the rest of their £70 odd million then!? That doesn't sound like a good business plan by our American friends now does it?
- that's absolute nonsense about trusts shares being given to someone else. Purely scaremongering lies.
- you've certainly done your best to spread domesday scaremongering scenarios and myths yes! | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 10:16 - Nov 10 with 614 views | Catullus |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 22:12 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Crickey this is fun. I have to teach the membership of this forum on basic sensible financial management. I am such a nice bloke I even suggested a 'Financial Q and A' guest page on this great forum.
The Ft 100 is not a massive gamble. It goes up and down but in general it goes up and is a safer and better investment than your house even with buy to rent. That is a fact.
The biggest gamble of all in investment is struggling small football teams where Swansea city have resided for some time. Its boom or bust for them worse the gold mining stocks. As it happens Swansea city was boom not bust The Trust had a 100x mark up a £20m profit but did not sell despite encouragement. HJ played an absolute blinder for 14 years and is loved by the other shareholders. The Trust prefered not to sell and said so. Bad call.
The famility running Stoke city are £180m in debt and stll below Swansea in the league. That how they outbid Swansea for Joe Allen. They borrowed the money.
The level of financial naiivity is absolutely staggering to me. |
The stock exchange is a gamble, shares rise AND fall. A neighbour of mine says he's lost 30k since covid hit. Commapnies go bankrupt, get caught cheating. It is not a better investment than property because property is a very safe investment, even when house prices drop the rent will still keep coming.
Football clubs are a MASSIVE gamble and the easiest way to lose a fortune.
The Coates family are not in debt, the football club are. Coates has an estimated worth of 750 million. That's how Stoke borrowed, they have a rich owner who bails them out but also why they could be in FFP trouble this season.
Again you ignore that the trust were deliberatley kept out of the sale, that is public knowledge and you cannot sell if there is no buyer either.
PS, if stocks are so safe why are gold stocks apparently bad?
PPS, see point 2,
https://www.thesimpledollar.co | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 12:20 - Nov 10 with 601 views | BillyChong |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 10:16 - Nov 10 by Catullus |
The stock exchange is a gamble, shares rise AND fall. A neighbour of mine says he's lost 30k since covid hit. Commapnies go bankrupt, get caught cheating. It is not a better investment than property because property is a very safe investment, even when house prices drop the rent will still keep coming.
Football clubs are a MASSIVE gamble and the easiest way to lose a fortune.
The Coates family are not in debt, the football club are. Coates has an estimated worth of 750 million. That's how Stoke borrowed, they have a rich owner who bails them out but also why they could be in FFP trouble this season.
Again you ignore that the trust were deliberatley kept out of the sale, that is public knowledge and you cannot sell if there is no buyer either.
PS, if stocks are so safe why are gold stocks apparently bad?
PPS, see point 2,
https://www.thesimpledollar.co |
He has ignored every point around the Trust being kept out of the sale to Americans. | | | |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 13:21 - Nov 10 with 589 views | onehunglow |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 10:16 - Nov 10 by Catullus |
The stock exchange is a gamble, shares rise AND fall. A neighbour of mine says he's lost 30k since covid hit. Commapnies go bankrupt, get caught cheating. It is not a better investment than property because property is a very safe investment, even when house prices drop the rent will still keep coming.
Football clubs are a MASSIVE gamble and the easiest way to lose a fortune.
The Coates family are not in debt, the football club are. Coates has an estimated worth of 750 million. That's how Stoke borrowed, they have a rich owner who bails them out but also why they could be in FFP trouble this season.
Again you ignore that the trust were deliberatley kept out of the sale, that is public knowledge and you cannot sell if there is no buyer either.
PS, if stocks are so safe why are gold stocks apparently bad?
PPS, see point 2,
https://www.thesimpledollar.co |
I have also lost money in the market mainly as the 2 firms selected for ISA have bombed because of various issue at Board Level.
Any contributions to draw back the losses please pm me | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 14:26 - Nov 10 with 572 views | trampie |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 22:12 - Nov 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Crickey this is fun. I have to teach the membership of this forum on basic sensible financial management. I am such a nice bloke I even suggested a 'Financial Q and A' guest page on this great forum.
The Ft 100 is not a massive gamble. It goes up and down but in general it goes up and is a safer and better investment than your house even with buy to rent. That is a fact.
The biggest gamble of all in investment is struggling small football teams where Swansea city have resided for some time. Its boom or bust for them worse the gold mining stocks. As it happens Swansea city was boom not bust The Trust had a 100x mark up a £20m profit but did not sell despite encouragement. HJ played an absolute blinder for 14 years and is loved by the other shareholders. The Trust prefered not to sell and said so. Bad call.
The famility running Stoke city are £180m in debt and stll below Swansea in the league. That how they outbid Swansea for Joe Allen. They borrowed the money.
The level of financial naiivity is absolutely staggering to me. |
What was the FTSE 100 on 31 December 1999 ?, what is the footsie now ? (even with its recent gains on the back of a possible vaccine).
The footsie has gone down over the last 20 odd years using the last day of the last century as a starting point. |  |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 14:46 - Nov 10 with 568 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 14:26 - Nov 10 by trampie |
What was the FTSE 100 on 31 December 1999 ?, what is the footsie now ? (even with its recent gains on the back of a possible vaccine).
The footsie has gone down over the last 20 odd years using the last day of the last century as a starting point. |
If you pick your own starting point, the millenium high point you may have a case. You would have to be very unlucky to fill your boots on that day. Dot com boom remember? If you did you would have lost.
Most people spread they risk to avoid that scenario. You are also forgetting dividends. On average 2-3% at a guess. 5% for Glaxo, Nat Grid etc, These willhave accumluated very nicely over the last 20 years. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 14:50 - Nov 10 with 564 views | trampie |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 14:46 - Nov 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
If you pick your own starting point, the millenium high point you may have a case. You would have to be very unlucky to fill your boots on that day. Dot com boom remember? If you did you would have lost.
Most people spread they risk to avoid that scenario. You are also forgetting dividends. On average 2-3% at a guess. 5% for Glaxo, Nat Grid etc, These willhave accumluated very nicely over the last 20 years. |
20 odd years butt and a loss, shockingly poor, the FTSE is a mature market, it's had its day as the last few decades prove. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 15:44 - Nov 10 with 552 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 07:04 - Nov 10 by Chief |
It would be good if you could answer my previous question but I will critique this reply too:
- Where has this £8mill figure come from?
- Why are you confusing money in Swansea City football club's accounts with money in the personal bank accounts of Kaplan etc? That's where the money for the trusts shares will come from.
- As experienced investors I'd have thought they'd have already budgeted for this eventually - especially as you say they've already made similar value bids to the trust in the last few years.
- Why the need for a cash call?
- unless they are already siphoning off club funds how can a - e logically result from them having to buy shares from their own pocket?
- so you think the Americans will deliberately handicap the club by stealing its funds. This then logically could see us drop down the divisions. How do they intend to recoup the rest of their £70 odd million then!? That doesn't sound like a good business plan by our American friends now does it?
- that's absolute nonsense about trusts shares being given to someone else. Purely scaremongering lies.
- you've certainly done your best to spread domesday scaremongering scenarios and myths yes! |
The £8m is the money the London agencies will take from the legal process in the event of a win. They may have talked themselves into a fee even if they lose if they are not 100% confident on the case , which would not surprise me at all. The Trust board might be tempted to accept this to save face having already wasted £150,000 in my eyes.
I believe the funders will want insurance against losing in court. £1.5 m in legal fees if the lose for example and the US legal costs gulp . Remember possibly court debutants will be going into court to bat for them. This looks like a big risk to me. The Trust only have £800k. They can only therefore pay these fees in shares. Check it out yourself you are a member. Give your man a ring.
While you are at it put the funders terms on here for transparency. I am only speculating. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 16:01 - Nov 10 with 546 views | Chief |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 15:44 - Nov 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The £8m is the money the London agencies will take from the legal process in the event of a win. They may have talked themselves into a fee even if they lose if they are not 100% confident on the case , which would not surprise me at all. The Trust board might be tempted to accept this to save face having already wasted £150,000 in my eyes.
I believe the funders will want insurance against losing in court. £1.5 m in legal fees if the lose for example and the US legal costs gulp . Remember possibly court debutants will be going into court to bat for them. This looks like a big risk to me. The Trust only have £800k. They can only therefore pay these fees in shares. Check it out yourself you are a member. Give your man a ring.
While you are at it put the funders terms on here for transparency. I am only speculating. |
- yes your last comment is the only thing worth picking up upon. All the numbers and various scenarios you've dreamt up there are all completely that - speculation from your head. And we know you are entirely biased against the trust so all of it is pretty worthless.
And anyway - if the trust lose they can just sell sell their shares in the Premier league when promoted can't they???
Don't give me that nonsense about the trust giving away shares to funders if they lose - not even you can honestly say that's a likely outcome. | |
| |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 16:40 - Nov 10 with 537 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Inflation and the Swansea city Supporters Trust on 16:01 - Nov 10 by Chief |
- yes your last comment is the only thing worth picking up upon. All the numbers and various scenarios you've dreamt up there are all completely that - speculation from your head. And we know you are entirely biased against the trust so all of it is pretty worthless.
And anyway - if the trust lose they can just sell sell their shares in the Premier league when promoted can't they???
Don't give me that nonsense about the trust giving away shares to funders if they lose - not even you can honestly say that's a likely outcome. |
It is a question of relationships. Most in business especially in a small cities recognise the benefits of good relations. Legal action can only lead to bad relations even if unsucessful.
The saviours of Swansea city in 2002 thought it a good idea to involve the fans in the ownership team. The set up was to share the benefit for the investors and the fans body.
The man that ran the club for 15 years or so, had 14 sucessful years and one bad one. He increased the asset value of the Trust x100 (sensational returns) and put Americans with cash on table in front of them 4 months before the sale was concluded. No agreement was made and internal strife within the Trust led to the buyer walking away. This is the reason they gave.
Legal action will demonstrate that setting up the Trust was bad call. They have not come up to expectation. Trusts are set up for failure and and fan cash invlovement with low achievement like Exeter City. Swansea fans could not cope with success and looked to conflict for comfort and self justification.
. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
