| Ban of petrol and diesel cars 11:29 - Nov 14 with 2728 views | onehunglow |
Being brought forward to 2030 then.
Given the price of electric cars,people will simply either driver banger causing more pollution or simply bin the car.
Troubled times ahead |  |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 13:38 - Nov 14 with 1259 views | felixstowe_jack |
You can still buy hybrid ones until 2035. | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 13:51 - Nov 14 with 1257 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Troubled indeed.
You surely aren't naive enough to believe that they will allow old bangers to continue to pollute the roads are you?
They will be regulated or priced (taxed) off the roads.
They have made it clear that they want everybody on public transport or riding bikes, tough if there is no public transport where you live or work.
Then you have the minor problem of where all the leccy comes from for all these leccy vehicles and all the places needed to charge them.
Of course they will expect you to make your expensive transport to be made available to give up it's leccy to help stabilize the National Grid when it is in trouble through your nice Smart Meter when they deem it necessary.
I have nothing against EVs other than the general public tax payers should not be expected to subsidise them. They are not quite as green as is made out though, merely shifting their pollution out of the city, which is not a bad thing in itself.
They are great to drive except for range anxiety on long journeys.
The fire brigade hate them because if they catch fire they are almost impossible to put out and the Battery remains live. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 13:53]
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 14:12 - Nov 14 with 1242 views | Catullus |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 13:51 - Nov 14 by A_Fans_Dad |
Troubled indeed.
You surely aren't naive enough to believe that they will allow old bangers to continue to pollute the roads are you?
They will be regulated or priced (taxed) off the roads.
They have made it clear that they want everybody on public transport or riding bikes, tough if there is no public transport where you live or work.
Then you have the minor problem of where all the leccy comes from for all these leccy vehicles and all the places needed to charge them.
Of course they will expect you to make your expensive transport to be made available to give up it's leccy to help stabilize the National Grid when it is in trouble through your nice Smart Meter when they deem it necessary.
I have nothing against EVs other than the general public tax payers should not be expected to subsidise them. They are not quite as green as is made out though, merely shifting their pollution out of the city, which is not a bad thing in itself.
They are great to drive except for range anxiety on long journeys.
The fire brigade hate them because if they catch fire they are almost impossible to put out and the Battery remains live. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 13:53]
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This is where I agree. When we are told we have been close to blackouts and we aren't putting new power stations up, where does the extra power for all these cars come from. Then there's the ecological damage done by mining the rare materials needed for the batteries.
Of course the price of electric cars will need to come down OR public transport will need to be vastly improved. The charging grid needs to be raised to a suitable level too.
My honest hope is that if I am still around at 2030 that I no longer need a car. My wife will be 56 and hopefully will have taken EVR so we can spend our time travelling.
I'd ditch the car now if we could manage.
Casting my mind back to the diesel scandal, what if it turns out electric cars aren't the cure but simply the cause of other problems? | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 15:29 - Nov 14 with 1209 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 13:51 - Nov 14 by A_Fans_Dad |
Troubled indeed.
You surely aren't naive enough to believe that they will allow old bangers to continue to pollute the roads are you?
They will be regulated or priced (taxed) off the roads.
They have made it clear that they want everybody on public transport or riding bikes, tough if there is no public transport where you live or work.
Then you have the minor problem of where all the leccy comes from for all these leccy vehicles and all the places needed to charge them.
Of course they will expect you to make your expensive transport to be made available to give up it's leccy to help stabilize the National Grid when it is in trouble through your nice Smart Meter when they deem it necessary.
I have nothing against EVs other than the general public tax payers should not be expected to subsidise them. They are not quite as green as is made out though, merely shifting their pollution out of the city, which is not a bad thing in itself.
They are great to drive except for range anxiety on long journeys.
The fire brigade hate them because if they catch fire they are almost impossible to put out and the Battery remains live. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 13:53]
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EV are far less likely to catch fire than petrol or diesel car as both those carry highly inflamably petrol and to a lesser extent diesel. Petrol car are particularly liable to explode if they catch fire.
Not sure where you get the idea that the pollution is "transferred " else where. Most public charging points are supplied by renewable power, the companies who provide them, have signed contracts for renewable energy.
As far as charging at home at home very little electricity these days is from oil or coal fired power stations, some are gas fired which produces far less pollution than petrol or diesel. | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 15:35 - Nov 14 with 1204 views | onehunglow |
So, we will have a nation of car users that will be charging their vehicles overnight,if not at home ,but at the nearest street charging point.
Not sure if fans dad realises just how many of our road users pay no attention to any legalities at all. | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:11 - Nov 14 with 1185 views | Catullus |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 15:29 - Nov 14 by felixstowe_jack |
EV are far less likely to catch fire than petrol or diesel car as both those carry highly inflamably petrol and to a lesser extent diesel. Petrol car are particularly liable to explode if they catch fire.
Not sure where you get the idea that the pollution is "transferred " else where. Most public charging points are supplied by renewable power, the companies who provide them, have signed contracts for renewable energy.
As far as charging at home at home very little electricity these days is from oil or coal fired power stations, some are gas fired which produces far less pollution than petrol or diesel. |
I think the point is where does all this extra electricity come from? We don't have a massive surplus of production, several times we have come close to running out. If everyones car is electric or hybrid what strain does that put on supply?
Even after that, what about charging points? We'd need enough for every house. That's quite an infrastructure project
Monday to Friday (normally) I only do about 150 miles so maybe 200 per week usually. One full charge is enough for me for the week but unless the price of these cars comes down I can't afford to buy one. Things may have drastically changed by 2030 of course. However right now a Kia E Niro 2 only does 180 miles on a full charge and is £29, 595. Unless there's a decent second hand market many people won't be able to afford electric. | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:15 - Nov 14 with 1183 views | onehunglow |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:11 - Nov 14 by Catullus |
I think the point is where does all this extra electricity come from? We don't have a massive surplus of production, several times we have come close to running out. If everyones car is electric or hybrid what strain does that put on supply?
Even after that, what about charging points? We'd need enough for every house. That's quite an infrastructure project
Monday to Friday (normally) I only do about 150 miles so maybe 200 per week usually. One full charge is enough for me for the week but unless the price of these cars comes down I can't afford to buy one. Things may have drastically changed by 2030 of course. However right now a Kia E Niro 2 only does 180 miles on a full charge and is £29, 595. Unless there's a decent second hand market many people won't be able to afford electric. |
The Hague is full of street chargers. I can just imagine these on our sink estates being used for resident's cars .  | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:15 - Nov 14 with 1182 views | felixstowe_jack |
No need to charge every car overnight. The average comute round trip is 23 miles , for 5 working days that would be 110 about half the range of a new EV. A lot of workplaces now have chargeing points at work, so you can charge at work. You could also charge your car at the weekend at home , or when you visit supermarket to do you shopping. Different people will have different charging habits. | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:44 - Nov 14 with 1171 views | builthjack |
HGVs will still be on diesel I guess. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:46 - Nov 14 with 1166 views | Andy1300 |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:44 - Nov 14 by builthjack |
HGVs will still be on diesel I guess. |
Tesla have thought otherwise |  |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:56 - Nov 14 with 1162 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 15:11 - Nov 14 by onehunglow |
Chum.
Cut the personal crap and I won't lock horns with you pointing out your misplaced arrogance.
All vehicles on our roads taxed ,insured and MOTd then.  |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 17:16 - Nov 14 with 1155 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 15:29 - Nov 14 by felixstowe_jack |
EV are far less likely to catch fire than petrol or diesel car as both those carry highly inflamably petrol and to a lesser extent diesel. Petrol car are particularly liable to explode if they catch fire.
Not sure where you get the idea that the pollution is "transferred " else where. Most public charging points are supplied by renewable power, the companies who provide them, have signed contracts for renewable energy.
As far as charging at home at home very little electricity these days is from oil or coal fired power stations, some are gas fired which produces far less pollution than petrol or diesel. |
I suggest that you read about the problems with EVs when they catch fire, they are far more difficult to put out than Petrol or Diesel, which the fire brigades are equiped for.
Once a lythium-ion battery starts burning they are very hard to stop.
https://www.technocracy.news/e
As to your claim that " Most public charging points are supplied by renewable power" I call bull.
Only a few have been designed to use Solar power as a source.
Gas Fired power stations still produce the so called pollution that is bringing in this change ie CO2.
The questions still arise
1. Where is all the extra power going to come from?
2. How much space will be required for the charging stations required, roughly 6 times as much as a current garage forecourt for the same throughput?
3. How much will it cost and how long will it take to upgrade the Substations and Power lines to cope with all the extra power?
4. Where will the Government get all the lost tax revenue from petrol & diesel sales? Currently EVs are only slightly cheaper to run than FFs and the payback on the extra initial outlay is long. How long will it be when they add 70% to the price of electricity to recover the lost tax?
Do you know how much energy is required to replace all the current Fossil Fuels used for Cars, have you ever even tried to work it out?
Then we have the cost to replace the battery when it is no longer efficient, it will make owning old second hand cars worthless as the battery will cost 10 times the worth of the car.
Then we have the question of what you do with 34 million batteries when they no longer accept a charge.
Plus you have to consider the fact that EVs are heavier than FF cars, which means more wear to roads, which is already a massive problem.
Aart from all those minor details EVs are great, especially to drive. | | | |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 17:21 - Nov 14 with 1150 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:15 - Nov 14 by felixstowe_jack |
No need to charge every car overnight. The average comute round trip is 23 miles , for 5 working days that would be 110 about half the range of a new EV. A lot of workplaces now have chargeing points at work, so you can charge at work. You could also charge your car at the weekend at home , or when you visit supermarket to do you shopping. Different people will have different charging habits. |
" A lot of workplaces now have chargeing points at work, so you can charge at work."
Yes of course they are going to allow free or cheap charging when all the workers are driving EVs.
It is all about scale, there are currently 34 million cars in the UK, about a quarter of a million of them are EVs.
You still haven't answered where is the extra power coming from.
The national grid is grinding to a halt now without EVs, Electric Heating & cooking which are also in the impossible plan. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 18:25]
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 18:13 - Nov 14 with 1138 views | Andy1300 |
One thing to consider, people who don’t have drives, they can’t really trail a cable across the pavement, they need to have way too many charging points on the streets
Let’s hope that councils take up road space for thes points and not block pavements, they are to be used for cars, let them take up road space. | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 18:20 - Nov 14 with 1130 views | onehunglow |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 18:13 - Nov 14 by Andy1300 |
One thing to consider, people who don’t have drives, they can’t really trail a cable across the pavement, they need to have way too many charging points on the streets
Let’s hope that councils take up road space for thes points and not block pavements, they are to be used for cars, let them take up road space. |
Which is my point Andy.I spent a fair bit of time in the Hague and it's far more civilied and community based.People even avoid dumping shyte on the streets and Ive never seen wholescale domestic rubbish dumped in a lane or beauty spot. Like ours do.
We are not sophisticated nor smart enough to have charging points a s they will be vandalised as most things are. We need to change our society first and that means getting people to behave as they would with a brain.
Im not hopeful ,looking around.
Imagine,chappie arriving at home from work in his electric car ,parking up in the street,then setting his car up for charge then going in for his tea/dinner. | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 18:32 - Nov 14 with 1124 views | builthjack |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 18:20 - Nov 14 by onehunglow |
Which is my point Andy.I spent a fair bit of time in the Hague and it's far more civilied and community based.People even avoid dumping shyte on the streets and Ive never seen wholescale domestic rubbish dumped in a lane or beauty spot. Like ours do.
We are not sophisticated nor smart enough to have charging points a s they will be vandalised as most things are. We need to change our society first and that means getting people to behave as they would with a brain.
Im not hopeful ,looking around.
Imagine,chappie arriving at home from work in his electric car ,parking up in the street,then setting his car up for charge then going in for his tea/dinner. |
They should be thinking a few years ahead and going for wireless charging.
If you can do with a phone in McDonalds now, then why not do it with cars. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 18:45 - Nov 14 with 1113 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 18:32 - Nov 14 by builthjack |
They should be thinking a few years ahead and going for wireless charging.
If you can do with a phone in McDonalds now, then why not do it with cars. |
Wireless charging would be ideal, but do you really want them to dig up most of the roads more than they do now?
Which roads do you put them on, all the motorways, A roads, B roads, how long will the charging strips need to be?
HS2 is looking like £150B, how much do you think it would cost to go wireless?
Or are you thinking of stand alone wireless chargers, you do realise we are talking 7kW up to 250kW each. I am not sure I would want to be around one when it is charging in the rain. | | | |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 19:21 - Nov 14 with 1077 views | Dr_Winston |
Until you can do 250 miles on a single charge, then recharge within five minutes for another 250 miles, people will always be reluctant to see electric vehicles as the best option.
Hydrogen fuel cells have always seemed a better option yet have been somehow lost in the argument courtesy of the Tesla hype machine. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 19:31 - Nov 14 with 1086 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 19:21 - Nov 14 by Dr_Winston |
Until you can do 250 miles on a single charge, then recharge within five minutes for another 250 miles, people will always be reluctant to see electric vehicles as the best option.
Hydrogen fuel cells have always seemed a better option yet have been somehow lost in the argument courtesy of the Tesla hype machine. |
Doc, when I was at Fords they were working on Fuel cell cars back in the 90s, they could not get them to work properly. There are some fairly good ones from other makes now, but the fuel stations are a problem and one was destroyed in a fire/explosion recently.
https://electrek.co/2019/06/11
Hydrogen versions stand a better chance, but hydrogen is not easy to deal with due to it's small molecular size and embrittlement problems.
It is also expensive to produce and has less calorific value than fossil fuels.
Natural or coal gas would probably be a better bet,as is LPG. [Post edited 15 Nov 2020 10:53]
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 19:33 - Nov 14 with 1082 views | Boundy |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 19:21 - Nov 14 by Dr_Winston |
Until you can do 250 miles on a single charge, then recharge within five minutes for another 250 miles, people will always be reluctant to see electric vehicles as the best option.
Hydrogen fuel cells have always seemed a better option yet have been somehow lost in the argument courtesy of the Tesla hype machine. |
Taken from the Cummins web site , the company that makes engines so yes they would have vested interest but facts are facts
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe and the third most abundant on earth. In fact, 75% of everything in the visible universe is hydrogen. However, hydrogen does not usually exist on its own in nature. Instead it is produced from compounds containing it, primarily in the form of water.
Hydrogen is the hot, new, low-carbon fuel, but it’s been around for millions of years. Henry Cavendish discovered hydrogen in 1766 and the first electrolyzer separating hydrogen from water subsequently appeared in 1800 when a static charge was introduced into water. More than 200 years later, Cummins is continuing to enhance its products based on these fundamental discoveries.
Fuel cells need hydrogen as a fuel to produce energy. Whilst, pure hydrogen is very common, other fuels compounded with hydrogen, or hydrocarbons, are also used for producing energy. Some examples of other fuels used are natural gas, methanol, ammonia or diesel.
Hydrogen is a key energy vector that powers our technology using fuel cells. Fuel cells generate electricity through a chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen. As hydrogen gas passes through a fuel cell stack, it combines with atmospheric oxygen to generate electricity and the only by-product is water vapor.
While hydrogen, when consumed, does not produce any emissions or critical air components, it is only as clean as the energy source used to produce it. When using surplus renewable energy sources, like solar, wind or hydro-electric, through the process of electrolysis, carbon-free hydrogen is generated, commonly referred to as green hydrogen.
Fuel cells and hydrogen have been used to store power going back to the Apollo space missions. The NASA Glenn Research Center, NASA’s fuel cell research and development center, has been using fuel cells for the past four decades, including for the space shuttle missions.
Hydrogen refueling stations are growing worldwide to support fuel cell vehicles. In 2010, there were just 22 hydrogen refueling stations around the world. In 2019, that number has grown to 470 hydrogen refueling stations in operation. Japan leads the way with 113 stations, followed by Germany with 81 and the U.S. with 64 stations.
Hydrogen fuel cells are used in many applications. Cummins has been demonstrating hydrogen and fuel cell capabilities in many applications including powering passenger trains in Europe and providing fuel cells for refuse trucks, as well as, forklifts, pick-up and delivery trucks, heavy duty trucks, airplanes, and buses. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars (n/t) on 21:10 - Nov 14 with 1065 views | Catullus |
Hydrogen can be the most abundant element in the Universe, that's not much good here on Earth.
The charging points made previously, we won't have to charge every car every night, that's true but, what when there is a queue? What when there is one charging point on s astreet to be shared by several houses and most or even all of those houses need to charge their cars? First come first served and you get up the next day knowing you haven't got the range to get to work? Lets face it, are the government going to pay for enough charging points for everybody. The rich won't care, they have big houses, big drives, they'll probably have 3/4 points.
If they bring this in in 2030 without having started a significant infrastructure build several years earlier it will cause chaos. It could quite possibly price many lower income families out of having a car and possibly then cause problems for them getting to work. It will cause the unemployment of thousands of car mechanics, they just won't be needed if, as I have read, EV cars need much less servicing because they don't have the complcated engines. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 21:23]
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 00:13 - Nov 15 with 1024 views | controversial_jack |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 16:15 - Nov 14 by felixstowe_jack |
No need to charge every car overnight. The average comute round trip is 23 miles , for 5 working days that would be 110 about half the range of a new EV. A lot of workplaces now have chargeing points at work, so you can charge at work. You could also charge your car at the weekend at home , or when you visit supermarket to do you shopping. Different people will have different charging habits. |
Much less in cold weather when heating is required or A/C in the summer , and as the batteries get older | | | |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 08:47 - Nov 15 with 964 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 00:13 - Nov 15 by controversial_jack |
Much less in cold weather when heating is required or A/C in the summer , and as the batteries get older |
Why is air conditioning needed just open the windows.
As for heating you can always wrap up warm. EV actual use heat source pumps, they pump in external air and act as a fridge in reverse. They provide about 5kw of heating for every 1Kw of battery power.
Of course if you use air conditioning in it powered by the engine as uses more fuel causing more pollution. Even heating takes hot water from the radiator which means the engine takes longer to heat up and often never reaches optimum temperature to burn petrol using even more petrol. | |
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| Ban of petrol and diesel cars on 10:04 - Nov 15 with 937 views | Whiterockin |
As I see it there are major issues with the move over to electric cars.
First is obviously the ability to charge the vehicle. Many live in properties where they are not able to connect the car to a charging point where they live particularly if you live in a flat in a city or have to park on the street wherever you can. The only long term solution I can see is a portable power pack similar to something you use for a mobile phone, put it in the car overnight to charge the car and back in your house during the day to re charge. Currently the size of these would be impractical but with research hopefully the size could be reduced to a manageable size.
Secondly there are not currently enough electric cars on the road to have a viable second hand market to help those who want to go electric but can't afford it. My solution on this would make it compulsory for all motabillity cars to be electric in 2 years time. There are approximately 650,000 motabillity cars on the road on 3 year contracts, by the time you factor in early contract ends when people pass away and benefit is withdrawn there is nearly 250,000 going into the second hand car market every year. This would really push the change forward. Radical I know, but major changes need to come in for this to work. |  | | |
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