| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. 15:51 - Dec 6 with 3368 views | builthjack |
So a full house at The Liberty , 21 of those have died of Covid.
It's nowhere near finished yet.
Think about it you ones who don't seem to care. [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 15:51]
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| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:02 - Dec 7 with 823 views | controversial_jack |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 11:48 - Dec 7 by Scotia |
That clearly isn't the case. It does disproportionately kill the old and infirm, but the average age of a patient requiring intensive care treatment is in their late 50's. That is the issue as much as deaths. Our hospitals are full to bursting point.
Covid is robbing people of years of life, many of those may not be in absolute peak physical condition but don't have otherwise life threatening conditions. One person I know who died of Covid was on Kidney Dialysis and awaiting a transplant. He would have lived for many years in his state of health before contracting the virus, almost certainly long enough to get a transplant. He was killed by Covid. I know another lad, he was a bit overweight, but spent time on a ventilator aged just 44 and has absolutely no other conditions.
Just look around you, how many people do you see who are clearly in peak fitness, without considering any hidden conditions they may have?
A friend of mine ( ITU anaesthetist) does not expect to get a vaccine for some time because there are so many at risk NHS staff before him in the queue. They wouldn't die any time soon if they didn't get Covid. |
Excellent post and this is the reality |  | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:02 - Dec 7 with 820 views | Glossolalia |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 11:48 - Dec 7 by Scotia |
That clearly isn't the case. It does disproportionately kill the old and infirm, but the average age of a patient requiring intensive care treatment is in their late 50's. That is the issue as much as deaths. Our hospitals are full to bursting point.
Covid is robbing people of years of life, many of those may not be in absolute peak physical condition but don't have otherwise life threatening conditions. One person I know who died of Covid was on Kidney Dialysis and awaiting a transplant. He would have lived for many years in his state of health before contracting the virus, almost certainly long enough to get a transplant. He was killed by Covid. I know another lad, he was a bit overweight, but spent time on a ventilator aged just 44 and has absolutely no other conditions.
Just look around you, how many people do you see who are clearly in peak fitness, without considering any hidden conditions they may have?
A friend of mine ( ITU anaesthetist) does not expect to get a vaccine for some time because there are so many at risk NHS staff before him in the queue. They wouldn't die any time soon if they didn't get Covid. |
Well it is the case, and it's what we've been talking about on this thread - death. If you want to change the area of focus, go ahead, but don't dismiss what I say because you conflate deaths with hospital admissions.
Of course you know a lad, or someone else. These examples are heartbreaking, but only illuminate what many realise - there are exceptions. Why are there so many anecdotes of surprise deaths to bolster an argument when those in opposition to the lockdown take these for granted? Life is dangerous. And you know what robs people of the most of their years? Sloth and gluttony. But we can't point fingers can we. We aren't innocent in this. The best way to protect the NHS, the best way it's always been, is to respect yourself.
As for this idea that the NHS is at bursting point. Well, earlier in the year, admissions were higher, and that resulted in only one field hospital being used. Remember, when we spunked away millions? We have the infrastructure if required, and we also have many available beds, let alone more if necessary. Just scroll down and look. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk- |  | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:10 - Dec 7 with 812 views | exhmrc1 |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 11:14 - Dec 7 by exhmrc1 |
One of my neighbours was found dead in his chair by the ambulance. Every day he went to the pub drinking. Nobody would have known he was about to die. Anyone making claims that most would have died within 3 months is making false claims. None of us would have been able to predict my neighbours death just like nobody knows whether people who have covid are about to die without it. To claim that most will die within 3 months is absurd.
The figures show that over 40% of the people dying in Wales with covid are in their 50s, 60s and 70s. Nobody in their right mind would believe most of these would die within 3 months if they didnt have covid. The deaths increase with age but that doesnt mean even those in their 80s would die in a couple of months. |
it is on here. If you open PHW deaths and scroll down there is a graph showing the deaths at different age groups. Hover on it and it gives the percentages for each age group for men and women
https://t.co/zpWRYSUbfh?amp=1 | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:22 - Dec 7 with 804 views | Glossolalia |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:10 - Dec 7 by exhmrc1 |
it is on here. If you open PHW deaths and scroll down there is a graph showing the deaths at different age groups. Hover on it and it gives the percentages for each age group for men and women
https://t.co/zpWRYSUbfh?amp=1 |
So 83,7% are 70 or over and die. When you wrote 40% are in their 50s, 60s, and 70s you knew this would make it seem as if many more aged 50-69 were dying of COVID.
Excluding people in their 70s this drops to below 14%. Stop scaremongering. And bear in mind, many people that age are profoundly unwell owing to many factors.
Anyway Exhmrc1, or can I call you Malcolm, I'm done. I learnt a thing or two, only hope you did too. [Post edited 7 Dec 2020 12:24]
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| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:23 - Dec 7 with 799 views | exhmrc1 |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:02 - Dec 7 by Glossolalia |
Well it is the case, and it's what we've been talking about on this thread - death. If you want to change the area of focus, go ahead, but don't dismiss what I say because you conflate deaths with hospital admissions.
Of course you know a lad, or someone else. These examples are heartbreaking, but only illuminate what many realise - there are exceptions. Why are there so many anecdotes of surprise deaths to bolster an argument when those in opposition to the lockdown take these for granted? Life is dangerous. And you know what robs people of the most of their years? Sloth and gluttony. But we can't point fingers can we. We aren't innocent in this. The best way to protect the NHS, the best way it's always been, is to respect yourself.
As for this idea that the NHS is at bursting point. Well, earlier in the year, admissions were higher, and that resulted in only one field hospital being used. Remember, when we spunked away millions? We have the infrastructure if required, and we also have many available beds, let alone more if necessary. Just scroll down and look. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk- |
The fact is hospitals are full of covid patients. The most recent figures show 262 covid patients in Swansea Bay Health Board. This will probably have increased by later today.That is 20% of all patients. There are 45 patients in critical care in Wales. That is 26% of all critical care beds in Wales. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:26 - Dec 7 with 798 views | Glossolalia |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:23 - Dec 7 by exhmrc1 |
The fact is hospitals are full of covid patients. The most recent figures show 262 covid patients in Swansea Bay Health Board. This will probably have increased by later today.That is 20% of all patients. There are 45 patients in critical care in Wales. That is 26% of all critical care beds in Wales. |
I couldn't help it. Stop with the hyperbole. 20% isn't 'full'. Its one-fifth. You seem incapable of reasoned posts. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:27 - Dec 7 with 796 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 11:48 - Dec 7 by Scotia |
That clearly isn't the case. It does disproportionately kill the old and infirm, but the average age of a patient requiring intensive care treatment is in their late 50's. That is the issue as much as deaths. Our hospitals are full to bursting point.
Covid is robbing people of years of life, many of those may not be in absolute peak physical condition but don't have otherwise life threatening conditions. One person I know who died of Covid was on Kidney Dialysis and awaiting a transplant. He would have lived for many years in his state of health before contracting the virus, almost certainly long enough to get a transplant. He was killed by Covid. I know another lad, he was a bit overweight, but spent time on a ventilator aged just 44 and has absolutely no other conditions.
Just look around you, how many people do you see who are clearly in peak fitness, without considering any hidden conditions they may have?
A friend of mine ( ITU anaesthetist) does not expect to get a vaccine for some time because there are so many at risk NHS staff before him in the queue. They wouldn't die any time soon if they didn't get Covid. |
I suggest that when talking numbers that you use official statistics.
For week 47 (20th November) you can find them here
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplep
Pay particular attention to Figure 4, UK deaths by Age Group.
Summary
85+ - 26589 = 41.6%
75 to 84 - 20953 = 32.8%
65 to 74 - 9642 = 15.1%
45 to 64 - 5987 = 9.4%
15 to 44 - 675 = 1.057165231
1 to 14 - 4 = 0.006% [Post edited 7 Dec 2020 12:28]
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| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 13:01 - Dec 7 with 768 views | controversial_jack |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:27 - Dec 7 by A_Fans_Dad |
I suggest that when talking numbers that you use official statistics.
For week 47 (20th November) you can find them here
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplep
Pay particular attention to Figure 4, UK deaths by Age Group.
Summary
85+ - 26589 = 41.6%
75 to 84 - 20953 = 32.8%
65 to 74 - 9642 = 15.1%
45 to 64 - 5987 = 9.4%
15 to 44 - 675 = 1.057165231
1 to 14 - 4 = 0.006% [Post edited 7 Dec 2020 12:28]
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That's deaths, what about those critically ill or just hospitalised needing oxygen.What about staff going off sick with stress or illness, we aren't even into winter properly yet.
There is always a lag too, so unfortunately deaths will rise as cases rise. | | | |
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| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 13:04 - Dec 7 with 768 views | exhmrc1 |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:27 - Dec 7 by A_Fans_Dad |
I suggest that when talking numbers that you use official statistics.
For week 47 (20th November) you can find them here
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplep
Pay particular attention to Figure 4, UK deaths by Age Group.
Summary
85+ - 26589 = 41.6%
75 to 84 - 20953 = 32.8%
65 to 74 - 9642 = 15.1%
45 to 64 - 5987 = 9.4%
15 to 44 - 675 = 1.057165231
1 to 14 - 4 = 0.006% [Post edited 7 Dec 2020 12:28]
|
There is more than one form of official statistics. Public Health Wales and Gov.uk also publish official figures which are more up to date as the ONS figures are usually 2 weeks behind. Even using the ONS figures that you have provided there are more deaths under 85 than over which backs up the figures that I posted earlier. More between 65 and 84 than over 85. The actual PHW figures show them in smaller age groups
90+
80-90
70-80
60-70
50.60
then lower.
It is clear that once the over 60s are vaccinated most of the deaths will be prevented. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 13:07 - Dec 7 with 764 views | controversial_jack |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 13:04 - Dec 7 by exhmrc1 |
There is more than one form of official statistics. Public Health Wales and Gov.uk also publish official figures which are more up to date as the ONS figures are usually 2 weeks behind. Even using the ONS figures that you have provided there are more deaths under 85 than over which backs up the figures that I posted earlier. More between 65 and 84 than over 85. The actual PHW figures show them in smaller age groups
90+
80-90
70-80
60-70
50.60
then lower.
It is clear that once the over 60s are vaccinated most of the deaths will be prevented. |
That's not going to happen for some time yet | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 13:09 - Dec 7 with 763 views | Scotia |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:02 - Dec 7 by Glossolalia |
Well it is the case, and it's what we've been talking about on this thread - death. If you want to change the area of focus, go ahead, but don't dismiss what I say because you conflate deaths with hospital admissions.
Of course you know a lad, or someone else. These examples are heartbreaking, but only illuminate what many realise - there are exceptions. Why are there so many anecdotes of surprise deaths to bolster an argument when those in opposition to the lockdown take these for granted? Life is dangerous. And you know what robs people of the most of their years? Sloth and gluttony. But we can't point fingers can we. We aren't innocent in this. The best way to protect the NHS, the best way it's always been, is to respect yourself.
As for this idea that the NHS is at bursting point. Well, earlier in the year, admissions were higher, and that resulted in only one field hospital being used. Remember, when we spunked away millions? We have the infrastructure if required, and we also have many available beds, let alone more if necessary. Just scroll down and look. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk- |
I'm not changing the area of focus. I'm illustrating that many people do die, prematurely, for no other reason than that they have Covid. Even if they may be over the age of 80 or have some other health condition, you don't need powers of a seer or use examples of exceptional cases to demonstrate that.
The NHS is at bursting point, or will be soon. To the extent that a waiting room in Morriston hospital is now being used as a Covid ITU. One of the reasons for this is we are trying to run a "normal" NHS service alongside caring for acutely ill Covid patients, we have to do this or even more people would die of other causes. This is a different approach to the scenario in Spring when effectively the NHS outside of Covid was mothballed. Restrictions are essential to allow this to be the case. It is clear that the Nightingale hospitals were a sham, little more than a convalescent space. We have the infrastructure but not the staff.
You are correct though that is for another thread.
I don't see why we can't point fingers at those that lead unhealthy lives, in some ways the government do through duty, VAT and "the sugar tax". They are putting themselves at excess risk, but it would be a completely inhumane society to let everyone not at peak fitness or over the age of 70 be at the mercy of Covid. I don't think I'm invincible to the effects of Covid myself despite not falling under any of the risk criteria.
I'm not a supporter of lockdown per se, but recognise we need to control the virus. At the moment it is completely out of control and something needs to be done to stop illness and save lives. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 14:20 - Dec 7 with 744 views | Treforys_Jack |
Not looking good in Swansea Bay atm, why are people so selfish and ignorant. |  | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 15:08 - Dec 7 with 728 views | A_Fans_Dad |
" I'm illustrating that many people do die, prematurely, for no other reason than that they have Covid. Even if they may be over the age of 80 or have some other health condition, you don't need powers of a seer or use examples of exceptional cases to demonstrate that. "
Exactly the same applies to Influenza, hence UK excess deaths every single winter, COVID has replaced flu as the predominant killer of the old because it has more complications than the flu. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 15:21 - Dec 7 with 726 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 14:20 - Dec 7 by Treforys_Jack |
Not looking good in Swansea Bay atm, why are people so selfish and ignorant. |
You seem to think that it is all being caused by selfishness & ignorance.
What about the number of people who get COVID when they go in to hospital.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
There was an outbreak recently in a Gower care home caused by a Care worker who had no idea they had COVID.
So, not all down to idiots, just a lot of it. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 17:25 - Dec 7 with 706 views | exhmrc1 |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 13:07 - Dec 7 by controversial_jack |
That's not going to happen for some time yet |
I dont know the Health board's public health guy has said they are planning to give the vaccine at 3200-3300 a day 7 days a week if they can get the vaccine quick enough and get the staff. That is 64,000 to 66,000 over 20 days. That is approximately 1/6 of the area population being fully vaccinated within 40 days. That will cover most of the high risk people all over 65 or 70. Some wont actually have it and it is possible all those over 60s will have it. The second 40 day period is likely to cover every one over 55. Most of the deaths occurring come from those age groups. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 17:51 - Dec 7 with 697 views | Treforys_Jack |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 15:21 - Dec 7 by A_Fans_Dad |
You seem to think that it is all being caused by selfishness & ignorance.
What about the number of people who get COVID when they go in to hospital.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
There was an outbreak recently in a Gower care home caused by a Care worker who had no idea they had COVID.
So, not all down to idiots, just a lot of it. |
Not really in the mood to spar with you regarding this, you've only got to go outside and see the idiots not social distancing. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 17:57 - Dec 7 with 694 views | Scotia |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 17:25 - Dec 7 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know the Health board's public health guy has said they are planning to give the vaccine at 3200-3300 a day 7 days a week if they can get the vaccine quick enough and get the staff. That is 64,000 to 66,000 over 20 days. That is approximately 1/6 of the area population being fully vaccinated within 40 days. That will cover most of the high risk people all over 65 or 70. Some wont actually have it and it is possible all those over 60s will have it. The second 40 day period is likely to cover every one over 55. Most of the deaths occurring come from those age groups. |
You are correct. I think that referred to the threebmass vaccination centres alone though?
I assume some will be delivered via GP's and pharmacist's once the Oxford jab is available and of course directly to care homes.
All being well the vast majority of people who really need this vaccine will have been vaccinated by the end of March. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 18:24 - Dec 7 with 687 views | controversial_jack |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 17:25 - Dec 7 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know the Health board's public health guy has said they are planning to give the vaccine at 3200-3300 a day 7 days a week if they can get the vaccine quick enough and get the staff. That is 64,000 to 66,000 over 20 days. That is approximately 1/6 of the area population being fully vaccinated within 40 days. That will cover most of the high risk people all over 65 or 70. Some wont actually have it and it is possible all those over 60s will have it. The second 40 day period is likely to cover every one over 55. Most of the deaths occurring come from those age groups. |
Apparently the vulnerable should be vaccinated by end of feb, and that's just the first dos,.but that leaves a lot of others still waiting. I can't see it being completed before the summer [Post edited 7 Dec 2020 18:25]
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| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 18:25 - Dec 7 with 686 views | exhmrc1 |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 15:08 - Dec 7 by A_Fans_Dad |
" I'm illustrating that many people do die, prematurely, for no other reason than that they have Covid. Even if they may be over the age of 80 or have some other health condition, you don't need powers of a seer or use examples of exceptional cases to demonstrate that. "
Exactly the same applies to Influenza, hence UK excess deaths every single winter, COVID has replaced flu as the predominant killer of the old because it has more complications than the flu. |
Flu kills far fewer than Covid. Firstly many in the at risk are vaccinated and secondly it is not as infectious. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 18:29 - Dec 7 with 682 views | controversial_jack |
Covid is 30 to 40 times more lethal than flu | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 18:55 - Dec 7 with 677 views | Catullus |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:26 - Dec 7 by Glossolalia |
I couldn't help it. Stop with the hyperbole. 20% isn't 'full'. Its one-fifth. You seem incapable of reasoned posts. |
There are more "covid" patients in Welsh hospitals now than at the first peak.
The Enfys hospitals are on standby because the hospitals are full. Not full of covid patients but they are nealy full most of the time, we always hear about a lack of beds, especially at this time of year. In Morriston today at 3pm there were 180 covid patients, so 180 extra patients in a hospital with hardly any spare beds anyway. They created a whole new ward in the outpatients dept to increase capacity.
That is what a lot of people miss. It's not just about deaths from covid, a lot of people will be seriously ill and there won't be a bed for them or they won't get their treatment or operation. It was always about more than just covid mortality rates. | |
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| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 19:00 - Dec 7 with 677 views | shingle |
What i can not get my head around is Sweden, a country that never locked down and only implemented certain restrictions, yes i know they have had more deaths than there neighbors who locked down, but the bulk of them were due to a fcuk up with the care homes, but that was back in March when they had 5000 deaths, since they sorted that out they have only had 2000 deaths in 9 or 10 months meaning just 8 to 20 deaths a day, so how does a country where many do not were masks, do not lock down, and because of this continue to save and treat so many by continuing normal treatment for other illnesses saving thousands in the process, the media here keep quiet about them or give out false statements saying oh its gone really bad over there when you only have to check the independent Worldometers site updates to see that is not so, and before we get that Sweden is not as big as the UK explanation compare them to the likes of Wales and Scotland who are far smaller than Sweden, i am not taking any sides or trying to prove anything it just seems that no one can give an explanation, just take a look at the death rate over there for the last 8 months or so it is just 8 to 20 a day and those are facts from the Worldometer site. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 19:11 - Dec 7 with 667 views | exhmrc1 |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:26 - Dec 7 by Glossolalia |
I couldn't help it. Stop with the hyperbole. 20% isn't 'full'. Its one-fifth. You seem incapable of reasoned posts. |
It is 1/5 of patients that cannot get in there that would have if there was no covid. A huge impact on the NHS. Morriston Hosp has around 30 ICU beds not including the outpatients area. 20% of that is 6 beds ie 6 beds that other very ill patients would normally be able to use but cant and the figures are rising, As Catullus has said 190 patients in Morriston Hospital that wouldnt have been there if it wasnt for Coronavirus the equivalent of 7 closed wards. | | | |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 21:09 - Dec 7 with 646 views | Andy1300 |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 10:02 - Dec 7 by exhmrc1 |
Yes it generally kills older people and the risk of dying from it increases with age. That isnt in doubt. That a majority of people would die anyway within a couple of months isnt true. How can anyone know when someone will die, Many of these people could live several years. Indeed in the 2 I know who passed away with it they could have expected to live for 20 or 30 years. Just because someone has a treatable condition doesnt mean they die of that rather than covid. |
So it’s fine for you to speculate but not for people like me?
General consensus is that most people are closer to death than are not. |  |
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| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 21:17 - Dec 7 with 642 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| 1 in every 1000 UK citizens have now died of Covid. on 12:01 - Dec 7 by A_Fans_Dad |
From the ONS latest excess deaths page, (6th November), there is this note that explains some of what Andy is saying.
Quote
"Of the 1,937 deaths that involved COVID-19, 1,743 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (90.0%); of the 2,267 deaths that involved Influenza and Pneumonia, 307 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (13.5%)."
Note the massive disparity 90% of those that contracted or tested positive for COVID-19 had it regstered as the underlying cause, yet only 13.5% with Flu & Pneumonia had it registered as the underlying cause.
This is the ONS latest excess deaths page, (20th November), again we have a major disparity
Of the 2,697 deaths involving COVID-19, 2,361 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (87.5%).
Of the 2,605 deaths that involved Influenza and Pneumonia, 280 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (10.7%). |
The number of pneumonia deaths in the UK is down by around 50 percent according to the ONS. This needs investigation. |  |
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