| Another Brexit benefit .... 21:01 - Dec 11 with 11955 views | Kilkennyjack |
.... falling out with France over fish .. seems legit ....
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:18 - Dec 15 with 1467 views | Catullus |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:04 - Dec 15 by controversial_jack |
We export 70% to the EU, but we also import fish too. £1,2 billion when out economy is worth £2.6 trillion is indeed peanuts |
Ah, so we're moving from "nobody" to "peanuts" eh. That must mean that 25000 jobs don't matter as well as the potential for our fishing industry to grow when we have full control of our territorial waters again.
People were moaning about Debenhams when they cut jobs, people went berserk when Arcadia collapsed and cost 13000 jobs but twice as many jobs around our fishing industry is PEANUTS. Good to know you care. |  |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:21 - Dec 15 with 1439 views | Highjack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:18 - Dec 15 by Catullus |
Ah, so we're moving from "nobody" to "peanuts" eh. That must mean that 25000 jobs don't matter as well as the potential for our fishing industry to grow when we have full control of our territorial waters again.
People were moaning about Debenhams when they cut jobs, people went berserk when Arcadia collapsed and cost 13000 jobs but twice as many jobs around our fishing industry is PEANUTS. Good to know you care. |
If it’s only a tiny part of the economy it doesn’t matter. Unless it’s a Nissan plant. Then it’s the most important thing in the world. |  |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:34 - Dec 15 with 1446 views | controversial_jack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:18 - Dec 15 by Catullus |
Ah, so we're moving from "nobody" to "peanuts" eh. That must mean that 25000 jobs don't matter as well as the potential for our fishing industry to grow when we have full control of our territorial waters again.
People were moaning about Debenhams when they cut jobs, people went berserk when Arcadia collapsed and cost 13000 jobs but twice as many jobs around our fishing industry is PEANUTS. Good to know you care. |
i've been made redundant in the past and nobody cared about that.
We willingly sold lot's of our fishing rights to foreign countries for a quick profit, i'm sure this has been brought up before.Our fishing industry will not grow unless we have a market for it, and that market is in the EU.
The UK is a net importer of fish, with imports exceeding exports. The UK’s trade gap in 2019 for sea fish is 270 thousand tonnes.
In 2019, the UK imported 721 thousand tonnes of sea fish, with a value of £3,457 million. It exported 452 thousand tonnes with a value of £2,004 million.
That's how important our fishing industry is | | | |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:58 - Dec 15 with 1434 views | Catullus |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:34 - Dec 15 by controversial_jack |
i've been made redundant in the past and nobody cared about that.
We willingly sold lot's of our fishing rights to foreign countries for a quick profit, i'm sure this has been brought up before.Our fishing industry will not grow unless we have a market for it, and that market is in the EU.
The UK is a net importer of fish, with imports exceeding exports. The UK’s trade gap in 2019 for sea fish is 270 thousand tonnes.
In 2019, the UK imported 721 thousand tonnes of sea fish, with a value of £3,457 million. It exported 452 thousand tonnes with a value of £2,004 million.
That's how important our fishing industry is |
You only think nobody cared but still is that a reason to be dismissive of 25000 jobs?
Otherwise it's another self defeating argument. We are a net importer because of quotas. If we are free to fish our own waters, for our industry to grow again then we won't have to import.
From another angle, if we are importing so many fish why do we export? Maybe because we don't or haven't been able to catch as many of the fish the Uk consumes but we catch a lot of fish that EU countries consume?
Maybe now the fishing industry can grow again and we will import fewer fish, eating more of our own catch, supporting UK jobs. Remember if the fishing industry grows then it'll create jobs elsewhere too. Our fishing industry was decimated, not just by EU membership, it's a lot more complicated but having control of our own waters could be an important step in creating growth and jobs again,
https://www.sustainweb.org/new | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 12:45 - Dec 15 with 1417 views | controversial_jack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:58 - Dec 15 by Catullus |
You only think nobody cared but still is that a reason to be dismissive of 25000 jobs?
Otherwise it's another self defeating argument. We are a net importer because of quotas. If we are free to fish our own waters, for our industry to grow again then we won't have to import.
From another angle, if we are importing so many fish why do we export? Maybe because we don't or haven't been able to catch as many of the fish the Uk consumes but we catch a lot of fish that EU countries consume?
Maybe now the fishing industry can grow again and we will import fewer fish, eating more of our own catch, supporting UK jobs. Remember if the fishing industry grows then it'll create jobs elsewhere too. Our fishing industry was decimated, not just by EU membership, it's a lot more complicated but having control of our own waters could be an important step in creating growth and jobs again,
https://www.sustainweb.org/new |
We import and export, because that's what trading is . Big money is made from import and export and it's how countries and businesses thrive.
We are a net importer, because we sold a lot of our fishing rights for a quick buck. It doesn't detract from the fact that, the EU is a far bigger market than our own domestic one, and that demand in the EU is far greater.
I love fish and could eat it every day, but it's so expensive | | | |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:30 - Dec 15 with 1381 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 10:55 - Dec 15 by Lohengrin |
Don’t get too hung-up on Hake, Gwyn. The real issue here for Johnson, as it would be for any Leader, is that he cannot allow for a scenario whereby Britain would be the only independent nation in the world without control of her own territorial waters. |
The UK has always been independent.
Its through that independence that we chose to join the EU.
And now we will agree fish quotas through our independence.
Put simply, doing a trade deal does not make you any less independent. | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:30 - Dec 15 with 1378 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 12:45 - Dec 15 by controversial_jack |
We import and export, because that's what trading is . Big money is made from import and export and it's how countries and businesses thrive.
We are a net importer, because we sold a lot of our fishing rights for a quick buck. It doesn't detract from the fact that, the EU is a far bigger market than our own domestic one, and that demand in the EU is far greater.
I love fish and could eat it every day, but it's so expensive |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:52 - Dec 15 with 1375 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:30 - Dec 15 by Kilkennyjack |
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I am sure the Irish will offer the French increased quotas to fish in irish sector of EU waters to make up any short. | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 15:01 - Dec 15 with 1374 views | Lohengrin |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:30 - Dec 15 by Kilkennyjack |
The UK has always been independent.
Its through that independence that we chose to join the EU.
And now we will agree fish quotas through our independence.
Put simply, doing a trade deal does not make you any less independent. |
If at the end of this we are stilled tethered to the Thatcherite single market there is going to be an explosion of anger that will bring this government down within weeks. |  |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 15:50 - Dec 15 with 1314 views | Highjack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 15:01 - Dec 15 by Lohengrin |
If at the end of this we are stilled tethered to the Thatcherite single market there is going to be an explosion of anger that will bring this government down within weeks. |
Careful now. I’ve been severely reprimanded in the past for comparing the EU to Thatcherism. | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 16:25 - Dec 15 with 1310 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 15:01 - Dec 15 by Lohengrin |
If at the end of this we are stilled tethered to the Thatcherite single market there is going to be an explosion of anger that will bring this government down within weeks. |
Well in the last hour we’ve quite obviously agreed a deal. Look at what sterling is doing.
So you’ll soon find out.
But what would be far more likely to bring the government down is the country running out of goods and a lot of food within a matter of weeks together with thousands losing jobs.
Your insistence that being able to trade freely somehow works against ‘The common man’ is genuinely bewildering.
Edited to add: btw - the set up that has been happening over the past few weeks that will enable Johnson to portray the deal as a ‘win’ is genuinely hilarious. Ratchets, adjudication mechanisms and tariffs... Lol. [Post edited 15 Dec 2020 16:36]
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 16:43 - Dec 15 with 1283 views | Lohengrin |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 16:25 - Dec 15 by londonlisa2001 |
Well in the last hour we’ve quite obviously agreed a deal. Look at what sterling is doing.
So you’ll soon find out.
But what would be far more likely to bring the government down is the country running out of goods and a lot of food within a matter of weeks together with thousands losing jobs.
Your insistence that being able to trade freely somehow works against ‘The common man’ is genuinely bewildering.
Edited to add: btw - the set up that has been happening over the past few weeks that will enable Johnson to portray the deal as a ‘win’ is genuinely hilarious. Ratchets, adjudication mechanisms and tariffs... Lol. [Post edited 15 Dec 2020 16:36]
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Why would you find it in the least bewildering?I think I’ve been wholly consistent in my thinking across the years on here. I have always advocated the interventionist state and, in all honesty, in my estimation that’s what millions who voted Leave ardently desire. | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 17:12 - Dec 15 with 1267 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 16:43 - Dec 15 by Lohengrin |
Why would you find it in the least bewildering?I think I’ve been wholly consistent in my thinking across the years on here. I have always advocated the interventionist state and, in all honesty, in my estimation that’s what millions who voted Leave ardently desire. |
I didn’t say I found it out of character or inconsistent.
I’ve always found it bewildering...
The EU is an interventionist State. Just a big one. With lots and lots of customers. I agree that may well be behind the thinking of many who voted leave, but the mistake is in thinking the UK has the size or infrastructure to be able to do it alone. We’ve ended up, of course with the potential of a free trade area that’s actually smaller than the UK itself...
We’ll find out quite quickly what’s been agreed anyway. It will be spun to high heaven, and there’s be a whole load of guff about ratchet clauses and fish, but the actual reality of what’s been agreed will emerge once the likes of Kuenssberg and Peston have made way for more accurate analysis.
Johnson has played a game of chicken, seemingly believing the nonsense about German car manufacturers and Italian Prosecco producers. Once it became apparent to him last week that it wasn’t going to work, something had to be agreed pretty sharpish as we are simply not ready. Although the concern that so many here seem to have about fishing quotas that are largely in the hands of the super rich or have been flogged off to the Spanish and Dutch is touching. Or misinformed. One of the two. | | | |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 18:51 - Dec 15 with 1216 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 17:12 - Dec 15 by londonlisa2001 |
I didn’t say I found it out of character or inconsistent.
I’ve always found it bewildering...
The EU is an interventionist State. Just a big one. With lots and lots of customers. I agree that may well be behind the thinking of many who voted leave, but the mistake is in thinking the UK has the size or infrastructure to be able to do it alone. We’ve ended up, of course with the potential of a free trade area that’s actually smaller than the UK itself...
We’ll find out quite quickly what’s been agreed anyway. It will be spun to high heaven, and there’s be a whole load of guff about ratchet clauses and fish, but the actual reality of what’s been agreed will emerge once the likes of Kuenssberg and Peston have made way for more accurate analysis.
Johnson has played a game of chicken, seemingly believing the nonsense about German car manufacturers and Italian Prosecco producers. Once it became apparent to him last week that it wasn’t going to work, something had to be agreed pretty sharpish as we are simply not ready. Although the concern that so many here seem to have about fishing quotas that are largely in the hands of the super rich or have been flogged off to the Spanish and Dutch is touching. Or misinformed. One of the two. |
I agree.
Especially the fish dead cat, classic Dom - as the Tory scum would gleefully proclaim. | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 10:53 - Dec 16 with 1156 views | Catullus |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 12:45 - Dec 15 by controversial_jack |
We import and export, because that's what trading is . Big money is made from import and export and it's how countries and businesses thrive.
We are a net importer, because we sold a lot of our fishing rights for a quick buck. It doesn't detract from the fact that, the EU is a far bigger market than our own domestic one, and that demand in the EU is far greater.
I love fish and could eat it every day, but it's so expensive |
Self defeating again.
We import more than we export but we export most of what we catch. That shows that we have a large domestic market for fish.
We are a net importer because we sold the quotas but those quoyas are coming back so no need to export or import so much.
If we have a lot of fish then the price will come down, market forces at work. So one day soon you'll be able to afford fish every day. I often eat fish, 3 times a week as well some tinned tuna in salad sandwiches for lunch, creature of habit me and I love fish. | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 10:58 - Dec 16 with 1152 views | controversial_jack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 10:53 - Dec 16 by Catullus |
Self defeating again.
We import more than we export but we export most of what we catch. That shows that we have a large domestic market for fish.
We are a net importer because we sold the quotas but those quoyas are coming back so no need to export or import so much.
If we have a lot of fish then the price will come down, market forces at work. So one day soon you'll be able to afford fish every day. I often eat fish, 3 times a week as well some tinned tuna in salad sandwiches for lunch, creature of habit me and I love fish. |
You don't understand the concept of trading | | | |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:17 - Dec 16 with 1148 views | Catullus |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 10:58 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
You don't understand the concept of trading |
Oh really? Maybe you don't understand that we can sell more fish in a domestic market, if we have those fish and don't have to import them but catch them ourselves?
Trading is trading whether internally or externally. Markets will shift and if we cannot afford to trade in an EU market we need to find trade elsehwere, we need to modernise and adapt.
PS, trade is a basic economic concept involving the buying and selling of goods and services, with compensation paid by a buyer to a seller, or the exchange of goods or services between parties. Trade can take place within an economy between producers and consumers. Why do you think I don't understand that? Or maybe you don't understand that not all trade has to be with the EU? In fact our trade with them has been dropping for a while and increasing outside the EU. We just need that path to continue growing, which hopefully it will. | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:26 - Dec 16 with 1140 views | controversial_jack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:17 - Dec 16 by Catullus |
Oh really? Maybe you don't understand that we can sell more fish in a domestic market, if we have those fish and don't have to import them but catch them ourselves?
Trading is trading whether internally or externally. Markets will shift and if we cannot afford to trade in an EU market we need to find trade elsehwere, we need to modernise and adapt.
PS, trade is a basic economic concept involving the buying and selling of goods and services, with compensation paid by a buyer to a seller, or the exchange of goods or services between parties. Trade can take place within an economy between producers and consumers. Why do you think I don't understand that? Or maybe you don't understand that not all trade has to be with the EU? In fact our trade with them has been dropping for a while and increasing outside the EU. We just need that path to continue growing, which hopefully it will. |
There isn't the demand for fish in the domestic market. | | | |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:27 - Dec 16 with 1134 views | Highjack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 21:08 - Dec 14 by Lohengrin |
He’s pinched that line from James O’Brien, I think.
Clever presenter is Mr O’Brien but I’m not quite sure what to make of him? I’ve made it a personal rule to never trust a man who wears a silk scarf indoors unless it’s David Essex... |
I find him painfully miserable. I mean I love a healthy dose of cynicism more than most people but for gods sake James just cheer up a bit. | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:53 - Dec 16 with 1139 views | Catullus |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:26 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
There isn't the demand for fish in the domestic market. |
So why do we import more than we export? We imported 288,000 tonnes more than we exported in2018 and you say we have no demstic market?
https://assets.publishing.serv
Why do we buy so much fish then? In 2019 we imported more fish than the entire UK fishing fleet caught,
https://www.gov.uk/government/
The trade deficit of fish with the EU is around 1.5 billion. What do we do with all this fish we don't want then? | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 12:50 - Dec 16 with 1136 views | controversial_jack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 11:53 - Dec 16 by Catullus |
So why do we import more than we export? We imported 288,000 tonnes more than we exported in2018 and you say we have no demstic market?
https://assets.publishing.serv
Why do we buy so much fish then? In 2019 we imported more fish than the entire UK fishing fleet caught,
https://www.gov.uk/government/
The trade deficit of fish with the EU is around 1.5 billion. What do we do with all this fish we don't want then? |
It depends what fish it is. We get fish from all around the world. I don't particularly like cod , as i find it tasteless [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 12:51]
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 13:43 - Dec 16 with 1123 views | Catullus |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 12:50 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
It depends what fish it is. We get fish from all around the world. I don't particularly like cod , as i find it tasteless [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 12:51]
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Still you haven't explained how there is no domestic market for something we imported over 720,000 tonnes of in 2019? | |
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:07 - Dec 16 with 1117 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 13:43 - Dec 16 by Catullus |
Still you haven't explained how there is no domestic market for something we imported over 720,000 tonnes of in 2019? |
We import a lot of cod, tuna, salmon, prawn, haddock. This is what we eat over here. The price will rise without tariff free trade. Which hits the consumer.
We catch a lot of herring, mackerel, sole. We export most of it as we don’t eat that fish here in any great quantity. If there are tariffs, sales of those will drop which hits fishermen.
So lose, lose.
You are assuming that we will just switch to eating the fish that we do catch as the price will drop (to mop up the surplus caused by decreased exports). But that is unlikely to happen, as we won’t change our eating habits. Not quickly at least. (And even if we did, our fishing fleet are still out of pocket as prices are lower).
A nation doesn’t change its eating habits overnight.
Edited to add: you’ve said you eat a lot of fish, I bet it’s not mackerel, herring and sole. [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 14:10]
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:55 - Dec 16 with 1094 views | FieryJack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:07 - Dec 16 by londonlisa2001 |
We import a lot of cod, tuna, salmon, prawn, haddock. This is what we eat over here. The price will rise without tariff free trade. Which hits the consumer.
We catch a lot of herring, mackerel, sole. We export most of it as we don’t eat that fish here in any great quantity. If there are tariffs, sales of those will drop which hits fishermen.
So lose, lose.
You are assuming that we will just switch to eating the fish that we do catch as the price will drop (to mop up the surplus caused by decreased exports). But that is unlikely to happen, as we won’t change our eating habits. Not quickly at least. (And even if we did, our fishing fleet are still out of pocket as prices are lower).
A nation doesn’t change its eating habits overnight.
Edited to add: you’ve said you eat a lot of fish, I bet it’s not mackerel, herring and sole. [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 14:10]
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Bang on.
As a nation I suspect we've become too squeamish about fish over the decades since the war.
Mackerel and herring are plentiful and cheap and our forbears wolfed them down.
Today, they're regarded as too oily, too bony and too strong-tasting for wimpish British tastes. It's notable that mackerel is often served with a mustard sauce, presumably to mask it's pungent fishiness.
I don't exempt myself from criticism here: I used to regard my elder sister's invites to tea with great apprehension in case she served up her signature dish (which I used to silently refer to as 1950's Prison Punishment Food), namely Boiled Potatoes, Savoy Cabbage, Grilled Whole Mackerel. Most of the meal would be spent trying not to choke on fish bones.
I wonder what % of the UK's population will be tucking into a Yarmouth Bloater for tea this evening.
0%, I suspect - with the possible exception of FelixstoweJack, who, being a patriotic Brexiteer, and supporter of his local East Anglian economy, should, by rights, be scoffing it every day.
[Post edited 16 Dec 2020 15:05]
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| Another Brexit benefit .... on 15:00 - Dec 16 with 1090 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Another Brexit benefit .... on 14:07 - Dec 16 by londonlisa2001 |
We import a lot of cod, tuna, salmon, prawn, haddock. This is what we eat over here. The price will rise without tariff free trade. Which hits the consumer.
We catch a lot of herring, mackerel, sole. We export most of it as we don’t eat that fish here in any great quantity. If there are tariffs, sales of those will drop which hits fishermen.
So lose, lose.
You are assuming that we will just switch to eating the fish that we do catch as the price will drop (to mop up the surplus caused by decreased exports). But that is unlikely to happen, as we won’t change our eating habits. Not quickly at least. (And even if we did, our fishing fleet are still out of pocket as prices are lower).
A nation doesn’t change its eating habits overnight.
Edited to add: you’ve said you eat a lot of fish, I bet it’s not mackerel, herring and sole. [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 14:10]
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Nothing a good advertising campaign can't change extolling the virtues of healthy British fish. After all you only have look at the success of macdonnell and Kentucky chicken which are basically very unhealthy diets. | |
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