| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently 11:16 - Jan 18 with 2687 views | NotLoyal |
Would you have him in exchange for Dhanda ?
That seems to be the possibility. [Post edited 18 Jan 2021 11:16]
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 19:33 - Jan 18 with 976 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 19:25 - Jan 18 by trampie |
The idea is the wing backs attack when we have the ball and defend when we don't, a deep lying or false centre forward drops into midfield and fills a space when we haven't got the ball.
T.Roberts is not an out and out centre forward. |
Do you understand they not swing backs, if playing an orthodox 4 in midfield they then play with tighter width ,they play as wing backs when there are 3 others in there..not sure if you have played these systems to understand how it works...don't mean to be patronising but last few posts I have tried explaining how these systems work having played a number of them [Post edited 18 Jan 2021 19:34]
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 19:52 - Jan 18 with 935 views | AndyCole |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 12:39 - Jan 18 by 34dfgdf54 |
I wouldn't want to lose Dhanda necessarily but Cooper doesn't fancy him at all. For me he doesn't want to play a "10" anyway. I'd rather us sign Hourihane. |
I think he's looking for a MGW-type, someone who can play in a fluid front 3 and fluid mid 3.
A clever, hard working link man. Wilson was the top target.
T Roberts - looks like he plays in that role - and although not great against Brighton tried to do just that.
A better option to Dhanda, who is too lightweight. | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 19:55 - Jan 18 with 928 views | trampie |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 19:33 - Jan 18 by angryjack |
Do you understand they not swing backs, if playing an orthodox 4 in midfield they then play with tighter width ,they play as wing backs when there are 3 others in there..not sure if you have played these systems to understand how it works...don't mean to be patronising but last few posts I have tried explaining how these systems work having played a number of them [Post edited 18 Jan 2021 19:34]
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You don't have to have 3 centre midfield players to enable a side to play wing backs, the problem with having 3 lines of players is the space between each line and trying to play a passing game in such a rigid system.
When wingbacks started typically there would be 3 in midfield but that is not always the case these days, those 3 positions are often one sitting midfielder in front of the defenders and 2 centre mids or 2 centre mids and an attacking midfielder/#10/deep centre forward, depends on the opposition I suppose. |  |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:02 - Jan 18 with 916 views | TenbySwan |
Tyler Roberts played in the same Wales age group teams as Liam Cullen I think us at the same level.
I thought we were bringing in an American international.? |  | | |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:14 - Jan 18 with 890 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 19:55 - Jan 18 by trampie |
You don't have to have 3 centre midfield players to enable a side to play wing backs, the problem with having 3 lines of players is the space between each line and trying to play a passing game in such a rigid system.
When wingbacks started typically there would be 3 in midfield but that is not always the case these days, those 3 positions are often one sitting midfielder in front of the defenders and 2 centre mids or 2 centre mids and an attacking midfielder/#10/deep centre forward, depends on the opposition I suppose. |
So if your playing your system 3 at the back a tight 4 midfield and 3 up front there not wing backs then are they they are a 4 midfield and if the opposition played a 5 across the middle we would be exposed especially with as you say using Roberts and bidwell as midfielders they would have to push wide to mark their wing backs leaving 2 against 3 in middle but asyou just stated even with a number 10 and 2 holding there still 3 in there and ewhgen not got ball drops but the 2 wing back stay wide,where as would be narrow in a 4 | | | |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:33 - Jan 18 with 857 views | trampie |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:14 - Jan 18 by angryjack |
So if your playing your system 3 at the back a tight 4 midfield and 3 up front there not wing backs then are they they are a 4 midfield and if the opposition played a 5 across the middle we would be exposed especially with as you say using Roberts and bidwell as midfielders they would have to push wide to mark their wing backs leaving 2 against 3 in middle but asyou just stated even with a number 10 and 2 holding there still 3 in there and ewhgen not got ball drops but the 2 wing back stay wide,where as would be narrow in a 4 |
There would be nothing tight about my midfield, you are clearly old fashioned in your outlook, the modern way is for teams to be fluid, attack in numbers and defend in numbers, the system i was talking about the enganche would drop back into centre midfield making three central midfielders, the two wing backs then make five midfielders matching the opposition five midfielders in your senario and there would still be three defenders back there. | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:53 - Jan 18 with 818 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:33 - Jan 18 by trampie |
There would be nothing tight about my midfield, you are clearly old fashioned in your outlook, the modern way is for teams to be fluid, attack in numbers and defend in numbers, the system i was talking about the enganche would drop back into centre midfield making three central midfielders, the two wing backs then make five midfielders matching the opposition five midfielders in your senario and there would still be three defenders back there. |
Read the posts when we first started this debate you have changed your opinions so many times,when been explained mush what you have said don't work what you are saying is have wing backs when we not got the ball as the forward drops back in midfield allowing our two midfielders /wingbacks go wide just to defend,in that system 343 usually the two wide forwards drop to stop their full backs/ wingbacks coming forward ,if they otherwise stayed and we caught on counter our midfield would be exposed as there would either be gapsout wide or gasps through middle and believe me I not old fashioned in thoughts played at decent level in these systems [Post edited 18 Jan 2021 20:54]
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:59 - Jan 18 with 797 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:33 - Jan 18 by trampie |
There would be nothing tight about my midfield, you are clearly old fashioned in your outlook, the modern way is for teams to be fluid, attack in numbers and defend in numbers, the system i was talking about the enganche would drop back into centre midfield making three central midfielders, the two wing backs then make five midfielders matching the opposition five midfielders in your senario and there would still be three defenders back there. |
Leave it there mate I should have stopped when you said Tyler Roberts can be our firminho | | | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 21:17 - Jan 18 with 782 views | trampie |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:53 - Jan 18 by angryjack |
Read the posts when we first started this debate you have changed your opinions so many times,when been explained mush what you have said don't work what you are saying is have wing backs when we not got the ball as the forward drops back in midfield allowing our two midfielders /wingbacks go wide just to defend,in that system 343 usually the two wide forwards drop to stop their full backs/ wingbacks coming forward ,if they otherwise stayed and we caught on counter our midfield would be exposed as there would either be gapsout wide or gasps through middle and believe me I not old fashioned in thoughts played at decent level in these systems [Post edited 18 Jan 2021 20:54]
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I haven't changed my position at all, Dhanda does not seem to be a first choice pick for Coops, Leeds and Bielsa are said to be interested, T.Roberts not first choice for Leeds, T.Roberts worth more than Dhanda per transfermarkt site, if Dhanda is unhappy not being first choice and has his head turned by a Premier League team and some kind of swap takes place we could utilise T.Roberts, I personally would not persue the transfer but if Dhanda wanted to go for arguments sake then it might be best for both parties.
I remember Holland's total football, the end of Italy's catenaccio system, Germany's sweeper system, then Argentina's 3-5-2 and then wingbacks coming into the game and Bielsa incorporating all or most of those systems, he often used to play 3 defenders, 2 wingbacks,1 sitting mid, 1 centre mid, 1 enganche and 2 strikers but very fluid, sometimes described as 3-3-1-3 (3 defenders, then 2 wingbacks and 1 defensive mid, then 1 centre mid then the enganche and 2 strikers). | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 21:41 - Jan 18 with 750 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 21:17 - Jan 18 by trampie |
I haven't changed my position at all, Dhanda does not seem to be a first choice pick for Coops, Leeds and Bielsa are said to be interested, T.Roberts not first choice for Leeds, T.Roberts worth more than Dhanda per transfermarkt site, if Dhanda is unhappy not being first choice and has his head turned by a Premier League team and some kind of swap takes place we could utilise T.Roberts, I personally would not persue the transfer but if Dhanda wanted to go for arguments sake then it might be best for both parties.
I remember Holland's total football, the end of Italy's catenaccio system, Germany's sweeper system, then Argentina's 3-5-2 and then wingbacks coming into the game and Bielsa incorporating all or most of those systems, he often used to play 3 defenders, 2 wingbacks,1 sitting mid, 1 centre mid, 1 enganche and 2 strikers but very fluid, sometimes described as 3-3-1-3 (3 defenders, then 2 wingbacks and 1 defensive mid, then 1 centre mid then the enganche and 2 strikers). |
Every one of them systems i n your second paragraph, involves 3 in the middle, if you playing wing backs like you say I holding 1 centre one number 10 they will move about allowing width for wing backs.I stop debating with people like you who use transfer market and probably Fifa manager to see if players are any good ,always makes me smile.going back to your original post 343 system ain't a system that uses winbacks its a system that invites trouble ,where as 352 that's a system with wing backs, or or3241, or 3142, which is usually our system 343 ain't a system with wing backs either is 442, I'm not debating anymore I disagree everything you have said and thee best one was playing 343 with Connor and bidwell in the middle 4 and you said drop smith and have Tyler dropping to do smithjob when not got ball.sums it up to me talk about square pegs, | | | |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 23:32 - Jan 18 with 687 views | trampie |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 21:41 - Jan 18 by angryjack |
Every one of them systems i n your second paragraph, involves 3 in the middle, if you playing wing backs like you say I holding 1 centre one number 10 they will move about allowing width for wing backs.I stop debating with people like you who use transfer market and probably Fifa manager to see if players are any good ,always makes me smile.going back to your original post 343 system ain't a system that uses winbacks its a system that invites trouble ,where as 352 that's a system with wing backs, or or3241, or 3142, which is usually our system 343 ain't a system with wing backs either is 442, I'm not debating anymore I disagree everything you have said and thee best one was playing 343 with Connor and bidwell in the middle 4 and you said drop smith and have Tyler dropping to do smithjob when not got ball.sums it up to me talk about square pegs, |
Well according to the Beeb Swans played, 3 defenders, 4 midfielders including Roberts and Bidwell, 1 enganche and 2 strikers, 3-4-1-2 against Barnsley. | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 23:53 - Jan 18 with 659 views | ItchySphincter |
I’ve wondered a few times why we haven’t gone for Roberts. Don’t want to lose Dhanda but he would suit us. |  |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 04:18 - Jan 19 with 603 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 23:32 - Jan 18 by trampie |
Well according to the Beeb Swans played, 3 defenders, 4 midfielders including Roberts and Bidwell, 1 enganche and 2 strikers, 3-4-1-2 against Barnsley. |
If you look what I have said that is a wing back system.you still don't get it do you...so they are playing as wing backs, but a 343 system you originally spoke about the 4 in middle would be a tight 4 ...Bidwell and Roberts are full backs / wingbacks who could yes play as midfielders but if you had a 4 would probably use Grimes Fulton Smith dhanda who are natural midfielders that's why it's not a very good sytem the width would come from the forwards and not the midfielders in that system,and would rely them to drop and chase the opposition full backs /wing backswhen not got ball,let it go mate. | | | |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 07:32 - Jan 19 with 563 views | trampie |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 04:18 - Jan 19 by angryjack |
If you look what I have said that is a wing back system.you still don't get it do you...so they are playing as wing backs, but a 343 system you originally spoke about the 4 in middle would be a tight 4 ...Bidwell and Roberts are full backs / wingbacks who could yes play as midfielders but if you had a 4 would probably use Grimes Fulton Smith dhanda who are natural midfielders that's why it's not a very good sytem the width would come from the forwards and not the midfielders in that system,and would rely them to drop and chase the opposition full backs /wing backswhen not got ball,let it go mate. |
They would not be a tight four, they don't have to be a tight four, did Swansea play a tight four against Barnsley ?, Roberts and Bidwell get up and down the pitch, teams using wingbacks have a different formation when defending as opposed to when they are attacking. | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 10:42 - Jan 19 with 487 views | AndyCole |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 20:33 - Jan 18 by trampie |
There would be nothing tight about my midfield, you are clearly old fashioned in your outlook, the modern way is for teams to be fluid, attack in numbers and defend in numbers, the system i was talking about the enganche would drop back into centre midfield making three central midfielders, the two wing backs then make five midfielders matching the opposition five midfielders in your senario and there would still be three defenders back there. |
Totally agree. The key is the 'f' word - both in the middle, up top and intra middle and top. Fluidity and clever, hard working interchanging. With WBs complementing in tandem.
Spain are the masters at this. No pigeonholing re numbers on the back or positionally (eg #10) are largely now defunct. They set-up to exploit weaknesses, front foot positivity.
Top teams in EPL are mastering it too. Spurs has Kane and Son (less so)often lying in CM, NDombele up high etc.
EDit - and T Roberts looks like he can fit in our style (Dhanda too) [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 10:46]
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 10:57 - Jan 19 with 467 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 07:32 - Jan 19 by trampie |
They would not be a tight four, they don't have to be a tight four, did Swansea play a tight four against Barnsley ?, Roberts and Bidwell get up and down the pitch, teams using wingbacks have a different formation when defending as opposed to when they are attacking. |
It's like educating pork h9nestly the formation is in the line up ill tell you again systems are there for a reason and you are asked to stick to that system and do a job 343,that means 4 in the middle if the the two outer of the four hugged the touchline as wingbacks there would be a massive gap in middle or they be getting in the way of the 3 outer forwards going forward meaning they would go narrow to create space for the wing backs meaning the top 3 be narrow and getting in eac other way that's how when you have a system it's about your areas you answered your own question no they didn't play a tight 4 agains Barnsley because they didn't play 343 I'll tell you again they played 3 defenders 2 outer wingbacks with 3 in middle interchanging and 2 up top.if you play a 442 for example there no wing backs in that system yes the full backs might overlap but they get back to a deep position to keep shape.systems are all about shape,a343 system is not designed for wing backs,somebody educate him | | | |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 10:59 - Jan 19 with 464 views | onehunglow |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 10:57 - Jan 19 by angryjack |
It's like educating pork h9nestly the formation is in the line up ill tell you again systems are there for a reason and you are asked to stick to that system and do a job 343,that means 4 in the middle if the the two outer of the four hugged the touchline as wingbacks there would be a massive gap in middle or they be getting in the way of the 3 outer forwards going forward meaning they would go narrow to create space for the wing backs meaning the top 3 be narrow and getting in eac other way that's how when you have a system it's about your areas you answered your own question no they didn't play a tight 4 agains Barnsley because they didn't play 343 I'll tell you again they played 3 defenders 2 outer wingbacks with 3 in middle interchanging and 2 up top.if you play a 442 for example there no wing backs in that system yes the full backs might overlap but they get back to a deep position to keep shape.systems are all about shape,a343 system is not designed for wing backs,somebody educate him |
Pork has a bad press Mr Angry..
Anyway,has this chap signed as we seem to be speculating again and nothing much happening. | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 11:05 - Jan 19 with 451 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 10:42 - Jan 19 by AndyCole |
Totally agree. The key is the 'f' word - both in the middle, up top and intra middle and top. Fluidity and clever, hard working interchanging. With WBs complementing in tandem.
Spain are the masters at this. No pigeonholing re numbers on the back or positionally (eg #10) are largely now defunct. They set-up to exploit weaknesses, front foot positivity.
Top teams in EPL are mastering it too. Spurs has Kane and Son (less so)often lying in CM, NDombele up high etc.
EDit - and T Roberts looks like he can fit in our style (Dhanda too) [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 10:46]
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Yes Spain have players interchanging so do Liverpool but Spain have 3 midfielders in middle interchanging with one up top allowin width for wing backs who always keep their shape..Liverpool play 4 at back with 3 in middle and 3 up top allowing their full backs to push on now the argument here is about a343 system that wouldn't allow wing backs,there is fluidity yes but only in certain position otherwise what is the point in system [Post edited 19 Jan 2021 11:09]
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 11:09 - Jan 19 with 436 views | trampie |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 10:57 - Jan 19 by angryjack |
It's like educating pork h9nestly the formation is in the line up ill tell you again systems are there for a reason and you are asked to stick to that system and do a job 343,that means 4 in the middle if the the two outer of the four hugged the touchline as wingbacks there would be a massive gap in middle or they be getting in the way of the 3 outer forwards going forward meaning they would go narrow to create space for the wing backs meaning the top 3 be narrow and getting in eac other way that's how when you have a system it's about your areas you answered your own question no they didn't play a tight 4 agains Barnsley because they didn't play 343 I'll tell you again they played 3 defenders 2 outer wingbacks with 3 in middle interchanging and 2 up top.if you play a 442 for example there no wing backs in that system yes the full backs might overlap but they get back to a deep position to keep shape.systems are all about shape,a343 system is not designed for wing backs,somebody educate him |
BBC website show the Swans formation as Roberts, Grimes, Fulton, Bidwell in a 3-4-1-2 at Barnsley.
There is no rule saying you have to have 5 in midfield if playing wingbacks. | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 11:13 - Jan 19 with 426 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 11:09 - Jan 19 by trampie |
BBC website show the Swans formation as Roberts, Grimes, Fulton, Bidwell in a 3-4-1-2 at Barnsley.
There is no rule saying you have to have 5 in midfield if playing wingbacks. |
So where was Smith then he was in midfield interchanging allowing width,when we didn't have ball he acts as extra man to cover he wasn't up front he's amidfielder now if he stayed up front that would mean our wide man would have to come narrower to help out so they then become tighter do you see | | | |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 11:23 - Jan 19 with 414 views | AndyCole |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 11:09 - Jan 19 by trampie |
BBC website show the Swans formation as Roberts, Grimes, Fulton, Bidwell in a 3-4-1-2 at Barnsley.
There is no rule saying you have to have 5 in midfield if playing wingbacks. |
And we often morph into 31411 etc etc
The 'f' word applies to the overall system too - So if we set out 352 and dynamically morph into a 343 what's the problem. The clever players will exploit and adapt.
As Pep said after the 4-0 drubbing of Palace when asked about what has he done tactically to turnaround the slight dip - "nothing, it's the same philosophy, the beauty of coaching the best players is they work it out for themselves." | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 14:43 - Jan 19 with 352 views | trampie |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 11:23 - Jan 19 by AndyCole |
And we often morph into 31411 etc etc
The 'f' word applies to the overall system too - So if we set out 352 and dynamically morph into a 343 what's the problem. The clever players will exploit and adapt.
As Pep said after the 4-0 drubbing of Palace when asked about what has he done tactically to turnaround the slight dip - "nothing, it's the same philosophy, the beauty of coaching the best players is they work it out for themselves." |
Yes exactly. | |
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| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 14:56 - Jan 19 with 328 views | angryjack |
| Tyler Roberts ready to leave Leeds apparently on 11:23 - Jan 19 by AndyCole |
And we often morph into 31411 etc etc
The 'f' word applies to the overall system too - So if we set out 352 and dynamically morph into a 343 what's the problem. The clever players will exploit and adapt.
As Pep said after the 4-0 drubbing of Palace when asked about what has he done tactically to turnaround the slight dip - "nothing, it's the same philosophy, the beauty of coaching the best players is they work it out for themselves." |
No problem but a 343 not a system with wing backs simple if players drop in and it morphs to a 352 then it becomes wing backs but a 343 ain't a wing back system unless a forward drops in the hole and becomes a 352 with wide wing backs | | | |
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