| Yanks Out 18:16 - Jul 21 with 6783 views | owainglyndwr |
This club is going down hill fast. ....
A new manager without investment don't add up |  | | |  |
| Yanks Out on 20:46 - Jul 24 with 1034 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Yanks Out on 18:53 - Jul 24 by Chief |
But as you've already conceded the manager doesn't have sole charge over transfers - 'joint effort'.
So if they gave Cooper what he wanted, why did Cooper at several points state we don't have an out and out striker this season? Why didn't they endevour provide that?
So he told them repeatedly what he wanted. But that wasn't provided was it? You're lying now. You know he wanted an out and out striker. And it wasn't provided was it?
Obafemi isn't a number 9. He's another impish winger/small pacy striker.
Dunno what the waffle in the next paragraphs about. Irrelevant. What we do know is that the out and out striker didn't arrive. I have no idea if any viable options were offered to Cooper. I'd suggest not, if any were he'd have jumped at the opportunity surely. Why would he refuse a player in a position he wanted? You have no idea whether Cooper was offered Piggott.
Morris has played a lot of his career on the wing and he's not that highly rated. If he was he wouldn't still be playing MLS at his age.
Again you're contradicting yourself. You say Cooper was given what he wanted then giving an example where a former manager wasn't given what they wanted. While maintaining that Cooper is the boss and he's to blame for everything!
Bizarre.
So you're saying that he walked away with no compensation then? Yes strange action for a manager who 'quit'. Sounds to me like a very admirable act. |
To put it bluntly Cooper might have been looking for a way out and stocking up with excuses. Every loser has a list of reasons why something did not work and Cooper was prone to sometimes blame his tools which has been noted on here. Frank always seemed to have his number.
If Cooper had no number 9 then that his his responsibility. There are dozens of them in the lower leagues and Scotland all pretty good. Swansea were linked with a number of players. Obafemi is an out and out striker. Several strikers were surplus to requirements like Charlie Austin for example.
Cooper was playing an £80,000 a week striker in Ayew. Cooper made no attempt to drum him out of the club and did quite the opposite. He could have got two very good strikers even if some club had paid half Ayew's wages. He also did not need Woodman in my opinion. I warned you what would happen if the US players were not given a fair crack at it. Its called managing up.
I can fully understand why he left. He was being presented with a lower budget and has to compete with the rest of the league on a level playing field excepting the top 4 or 5.
Had Cooper been sacked it is doubtful he would have stayed on for the extra two weeks and gone to Pennyhill. I suspect he has something lined up and waiting for a post to become available. Perhaps, If he has a job ready in two months time , he would not want compensation and he would not want to jump ship after 2 month of the season.
Morris was rated one of the MLS best players 2 years ago as a striker. If the US players are so poor as you suggest the likes of Cullen Garrick and Brandon Cooper should go on loan and really rip it up. I am all for these guys getting experience. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Yanks Out on 21:07 - Jul 24 with 1008 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 20:46 - Jul 24 by ReslovenSwan1 |
To put it bluntly Cooper might have been looking for a way out and stocking up with excuses. Every loser has a list of reasons why something did not work and Cooper was prone to sometimes blame his tools which has been noted on here. Frank always seemed to have his number.
If Cooper had no number 9 then that his his responsibility. There are dozens of them in the lower leagues and Scotland all pretty good. Swansea were linked with a number of players. Obafemi is an out and out striker. Several strikers were surplus to requirements like Charlie Austin for example.
Cooper was playing an £80,000 a week striker in Ayew. Cooper made no attempt to drum him out of the club and did quite the opposite. He could have got two very good strikers even if some club had paid half Ayew's wages. He also did not need Woodman in my opinion. I warned you what would happen if the US players were not given a fair crack at it. Its called managing up.
I can fully understand why he left. He was being presented with a lower budget and has to compete with the rest of the league on a level playing field excepting the top 4 or 5.
Had Cooper been sacked it is doubtful he would have stayed on for the extra two weeks and gone to Pennyhill. I suspect he has something lined up and waiting for a post to become available. Perhaps, If he has a job ready in two months time , he would not want compensation and he would not want to jump ship after 2 month of the season.
Morris was rated one of the MLS best players 2 years ago as a striker. If the US players are so poor as you suggest the likes of Cullen Garrick and Brandon Cooper should go on loan and really rip it up. I am all for these guys getting experience. |
If he was looking for excuses then he wouldn’t have joined, or indeed stay after the first heat.
To his credit he did despite those not always living up to the standards he set. He was let down in January, as were we as fans.
You are again saying “number 9, there’s loads in the lower leagues” as if he simply wanted a number. He wanted a player capable of playing the role at a level knocking on the Premier League.
You mentioned Mullin yesterday as someone he should have gone for. The bloke has just signed for Wrexham….
Some people just have a chip on their shoulder sadly. |  |
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| Yanks Out on 21:10 - Jul 24 with 1014 views | Chief |
| Yanks Out on 20:46 - Jul 24 by ReslovenSwan1 |
To put it bluntly Cooper might have been looking for a way out and stocking up with excuses. Every loser has a list of reasons why something did not work and Cooper was prone to sometimes blame his tools which has been noted on here. Frank always seemed to have his number.
If Cooper had no number 9 then that his his responsibility. There are dozens of them in the lower leagues and Scotland all pretty good. Swansea were linked with a number of players. Obafemi is an out and out striker. Several strikers were surplus to requirements like Charlie Austin for example.
Cooper was playing an £80,000 a week striker in Ayew. Cooper made no attempt to drum him out of the club and did quite the opposite. He could have got two very good strikers even if some club had paid half Ayew's wages. He also did not need Woodman in my opinion. I warned you what would happen if the US players were not given a fair crack at it. Its called managing up.
I can fully understand why he left. He was being presented with a lower budget and has to compete with the rest of the league on a level playing field excepting the top 4 or 5.
Had Cooper been sacked it is doubtful he would have stayed on for the extra two weeks and gone to Pennyhill. I suspect he has something lined up and waiting for a post to become available. Perhaps, If he has a job ready in two months time , he would not want compensation and he would not want to jump ship after 2 month of the season.
Morris was rated one of the MLS best players 2 years ago as a striker. If the US players are so poor as you suggest the likes of Cullen Garrick and Brandon Cooper should go on loan and really rip it up. I am all for these guys getting experience. |
A way out of what? He was stating that we needed a striker when we were riding high and looking pretty. Haha the manager that got us to 6th and 4th is a 'loser' now? Was a Potter a 'loser' for finishing 10th? As I say, Cooper didn't need to look for any excuses or reasons when we were challenging at the top so that's a bizarre opinion again. Thomas Frank had the number of every other manager in the division besides the top 2. Funnily enough his Brentford team justifiably finished 3rd. And by the way we dominated the away fixture last season.
So it's Cooper's fault no number 9 joined the club!? So you're saying now that transfers aren't a 'joint effort'? Another contradiction. Ok well i don't think he is, but it's irrelevant he got injured and he didn't come. Cooper can't be blamed for him getting injured. I assume Austin's wages would have been too much for us.
So Cooper should have got rid of Ayew now!? Wow. Haha this is unbelievable. Come off it, if there was any real interest in Ayew he'd have gone too. Just like Rodon, but Cooper as the 'boss' as you keep proclaiming him was powerless to stop him going, likewise Peterson, yet you expect him to try and push Ayew out of the club!? How many clean sheets did Woodman get last season?
Now I know Benda might have performed just as well, we don't know. But seeing as Woodman we know for a fact did do well, why try and re-write that!? Bizarre.
Oh hold on, I thought you said Cooper was the 'manager' and was fully in control and the squad balance was his doing? Now you're saying he needed to pander to the manager's above him by playing players who justified no starting place because the bosses signed them? Do you realise how absurd these contradictions of yours are sounding?
Ah this is better, now you're actually saying 'i suspect'. Good your learning. Now not stating things as fact. Of course your point isn't necessarily correct. It could well have just been what it was on the tin - mutual. Judging by Winters previous conduct when dealing with Cooper I don't think he was too sad to see him go&this is evidenced by no new contract being offered.
I'm not saying or haven't said the MLS is poor. But American players in their mid 20s still playing there aren't going to make too many ripples. Having said that, we're in the championship & Morris I think was able to offer something. Which he did - Cooper gave him ample time for his and the team's situation. We we're playing well so in your 'the buck stops with Cooper' you'd have to grant him credit where it's due and that period of time he obviously got his team selections correct.
Didn't you want those type players to be playing in the swans 11? You even implied you didn't want any loans in that could take their place in the team. So you suggesting that they should go out on loan now is just bizarre again! |  |
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| Yanks Out on 21:13 - Jul 24 with 1007 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 15:27 - Jul 24 by jasper_T |
If you assume a footballer's life begins with his first team debut (like most journos tbf) then sure, he's a winger that would need converting to centre forward.
What's "widely accepted to be true" is frequently bollocks. |
David de Gea was an outfield player for much on his youth, but he’s a goalkeeper quite clearly. If you called Leon Britton a “Premier League winger” a few years back it would be bordering on hilarious, and yet he played there until he was in his early 20’s in League 2.
What you were growing up is largely irrelevant, if you don’t have the attributes to play that role then you aren’t that role and you will quickly be moved by the professionals when you enter the game with the big boys.
Calling Whittaker a number 9 when it’s likely he will never truly play there (unless he drastically changes his game and physique) is just silly. He’s a wide forward/winger. We don’t play wingers (or at least didn’t under Cooper) so you would largely see him on either lank of the number 9 (that we didn’t have) in a forward 3. [Post edited 24 Jul 2021 21:22]
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| Yanks Out on 21:17 - Jul 24 with 1001 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 21:10 - Jul 24 by Chief |
A way out of what? He was stating that we needed a striker when we were riding high and looking pretty. Haha the manager that got us to 6th and 4th is a 'loser' now? Was a Potter a 'loser' for finishing 10th? As I say, Cooper didn't need to look for any excuses or reasons when we were challenging at the top so that's a bizarre opinion again. Thomas Frank had the number of every other manager in the division besides the top 2. Funnily enough his Brentford team justifiably finished 3rd. And by the way we dominated the away fixture last season.
So it's Cooper's fault no number 9 joined the club!? So you're saying now that transfers aren't a 'joint effort'? Another contradiction. Ok well i don't think he is, but it's irrelevant he got injured and he didn't come. Cooper can't be blamed for him getting injured. I assume Austin's wages would have been too much for us.
So Cooper should have got rid of Ayew now!? Wow. Haha this is unbelievable. Come off it, if there was any real interest in Ayew he'd have gone too. Just like Rodon, but Cooper as the 'boss' as you keep proclaiming him was powerless to stop him going, likewise Peterson, yet you expect him to try and push Ayew out of the club!? How many clean sheets did Woodman get last season?
Now I know Benda might have performed just as well, we don't know. But seeing as Woodman we know for a fact did do well, why try and re-write that!? Bizarre.
Oh hold on, I thought you said Cooper was the 'manager' and was fully in control and the squad balance was his doing? Now you're saying he needed to pander to the manager's above him by playing players who justified no starting place because the bosses signed them? Do you realise how absurd these contradictions of yours are sounding?
Ah this is better, now you're actually saying 'i suspect'. Good your learning. Now not stating things as fact. Of course your point isn't necessarily correct. It could well have just been what it was on the tin - mutual. Judging by Winters previous conduct when dealing with Cooper I don't think he was too sad to see him go&this is evidenced by no new contract being offered.
I'm not saying or haven't said the MLS is poor. But American players in their mid 20s still playing there aren't going to make too many ripples. Having said that, we're in the championship & Morris I think was able to offer something. Which he did - Cooper gave him ample time for his and the team's situation. We we're playing well so in your 'the buck stops with Cooper' you'd have to grant him credit where it's due and that period of time he obviously got his team selections correct.
Didn't you want those type players to be playing in the swans 11? You even implied you didn't want any loans in that could take their place in the team. So you suggesting that they should go out on loan now is just bizarre again! |
Correct.
It grinds people’s gears, but Cooper is one of the most successful managers we have ever had in this league.
His smiling ghost will always be there with these people, reminding them. | |
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| Yanks Out on 22:04 - Jul 24 with 983 views | jackrabbit |
| Yanks Out on 15:56 - Jul 23 by Chief |
It should be patently obvious to anyone remotely interested in football, let alone connected to the club that we need more quality in this squad.
You can't compare Cooper's loans which overall were an astounding success compared to the players you've linked to Potter there, which incidentally were permanent signings, not loans so the outlay and commitment isn't comparable either. The South American reportedly isn't coming purely because Cooper has left so there's your theory out the window.
Well there was a benefit - how those players progressed Should let clubs know that their youngsters can be trusted to come here and perform - and I know your on this trip at the moment about us having this squad of youngsters but they desperately need some quality around them to help them progress. |
Hear! Hear! Well said. Without loans of quality players we would struggle to stay in this division. I don’t care how much value we create for their parent clubs as long as they do the job for us while they’re here. That ‘s why I have concerns for the coming season. |  | | |
| Yanks Out on 22:34 - Jul 24 with 976 views | jasper_T |
| Yanks Out on 21:13 - Jul 24 by Dr_Parnassus |
David de Gea was an outfield player for much on his youth, but he’s a goalkeeper quite clearly. If you called Leon Britton a “Premier League winger” a few years back it would be bordering on hilarious, and yet he played there until he was in his early 20’s in League 2.
What you were growing up is largely irrelevant, if you don’t have the attributes to play that role then you aren’t that role and you will quickly be moved by the professionals when you enter the game with the big boys.
Calling Whittaker a number 9 when it’s likely he will never truly play there (unless he drastically changes his game and physique) is just silly. He’s a wide forward/winger. We don’t play wingers (or at least didn’t under Cooper) so you would largely see him on either lank of the number 9 (that we didn’t have) in a forward 3. [Post edited 24 Jul 2021 21:22]
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De Gea only played outfield until he was 14, don't be silly. We've got players on the books who hadn't even kicked a ball at that age. Whittaker was playing central for Derby's u23s a year ago. |  | | |
| Yanks Out on 22:39 - Jul 24 with 968 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 22:34 - Jul 24 by jasper_T |
De Gea only played outfield until he was 14, don't be silly. We've got players on the books who hadn't even kicked a ball at that age. Whittaker was playing central for Derby's u23s a year ago. |
I’m not being silly, I have given you a few examples. Leon Britton not being a winger for one. I’m sure he could play there, but I doubt he would have ever made the Premier League if he insisted on
being one, simply because it’s not his best position.
You have said Whittaker was a center forward in the youth levels so he is one now. He was only in the youth levels until 18, your example of Whittaker gives a mere 4 years more than De Gea was an outfielder, an example you claim is “silly”.
I really cannot help you if you think Whittaker is a number 9, as other posters have quite rightly pointed out - he obviously is nothing of the sort and if he insists on playing there then he will have to drop down the leagues dramatically until he can come up against defences that don’t punish him for his shortcomings in the position. [Post edited 24 Jul 2021 22:45]
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| Yanks Out on 22:44 - Jul 24 with 972 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Yanks Out on 22:04 - Jul 24 by jackrabbit |
Hear! Hear! Well said. Without loans of quality players we would struggle to stay in this division. I don’t care how much value we create for their parent clubs as long as they do the job for us while they’re here. That ‘s why I have concerns for the coming season. |
The strategy was clear. Use the loans for one or two seasons and ease in the numerous 19-22 year olds highly regarded by the club into the first team
Cabango, Cullen Benda and Whittaker have this season been eased into the first team. Garrick, Brandon Cooper (back form loans) and Ollie Cooper are next in line. This is the club strategy.
Cooper knew the club strategy but went along with only the first two thirds of it. He ducked out of the final and most important stage. Presumably he has something more interesting for himself to do?.
Added to those seven are Walsh, Joseph and Piroe, 23 19 and 21 respectively. Added to Benda and the loan returnees this is effectively 7 new squad players. This will be added to a solid defensive core.
These 19-22 must play. Otherwise what is the point of them being at the club? The u21 hs been filled with exciting talent and they will be knocking on the door next season. Butler and Rushesha are already pressing. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Yanks Out on 22:48 - Jul 24 with 961 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 22:44 - Jul 24 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The strategy was clear. Use the loans for one or two seasons and ease in the numerous 19-22 year olds highly regarded by the club into the first team
Cabango, Cullen Benda and Whittaker have this season been eased into the first team. Garrick, Brandon Cooper (back form loans) and Ollie Cooper are next in line. This is the club strategy.
Cooper knew the club strategy but went along with only the first two thirds of it. He ducked out of the final and most important stage. Presumably he has something more interesting for himself to do?.
Added to those seven are Walsh, Joseph and Piroe, 23 19 and 21 respectively. Added to Benda and the loan returnees this is effectively 7 new squad players. This will be added to a solid defensive core.
These 19-22 must play. Otherwise what is the point of them being at the club? The u21 hs been filled with exciting talent and they will be knocking on the door next season. Butler and Rushesha are already pressing. |
He didn’t duck out, it sounds like he felt his ambitions were not matched by the clubs. I certainly felt that way in January too.
Thankfully as a result of not ducking out in previous years when he was given rubbish after rubbish to work with (it would have been far easier to than not), he has become one of our most successful championship managers. | |
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| Yanks Out on 23:20 - Jul 24 with 959 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Yanks Out on 22:48 - Jul 24 by Dr_Parnassus |
He didn’t duck out, it sounds like he felt his ambitions were not matched by the clubs. I certainly felt that way in January too.
Thankfully as a result of not ducking out in previous years when he was given rubbish after rubbish to work with (it would have been far easier to than not), he has become one of our most successful championship managers. |
Football people can talk "football speak" in their strange coded way (usually associated with very poor grammar) but there is no need for forum posters to repeat it parrot fashion.
"He felt his ambitions were not matched by the clubs". This is an excuse putting the blame on them. It translates to "the parachute payments have finished and I m out".
Last season Cooper had
Woodman,
Roberts
Bidwell
Guehi
Rodon
Cabango
Grimes
Gallagher
Brewster
Ayew
All top shelf performers. He was very lucky to sneak into 6th. Over £100m of young hungry talent plus Ayew Roberts and Bidwell. It should have been enough. That looks real strong to me. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Yanks Out on 23:35 - Jul 24 with 946 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 23:20 - Jul 24 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Football people can talk "football speak" in their strange coded way (usually associated with very poor grammar) but there is no need for forum posters to repeat it parrot fashion.
"He felt his ambitions were not matched by the clubs". This is an excuse putting the blame on them. It translates to "the parachute payments have finished and I m out".
Last season Cooper had
Woodman,
Roberts
Bidwell
Guehi
Rodon
Cabango
Grimes
Gallagher
Brewster
Ayew
All top shelf performers. He was very lucky to sneak into 6th. Over £100m of young hungry talent plus Ayew Roberts and Bidwell. It should have been enough. That looks real strong to me. |
Not sure what that means to be honest, but back to the meat of your nonsense.
So using your coded football speak “top shelf” you mean Premier League quality, then.
Woodman - no
Roberts - maybe
Bidwell - no
Grimes - doubtful
Guehi - yes
Rodon - yes
Cabango - maybe
Gallagher - doubtful
Brewster - apparently not
Ayew - yes
That’s three.
In reality he steered a worse side than Potter had from 10th to 6th, that becoming possible by picking up sufficiently more points than Potter managed to.
The year after we lost even more talent, including one of the “yes” category above, very early on. Despite being let down by the board in January making sub par signings like Arriola, he managed miracles and got us into 4th.
I understand the fashion to frame absolutely everything in the negative, but it will never get past the sensible among us. | |
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| Yanks Out on 23:47 - Jul 24 with 951 views | Chief |
| Yanks Out on 22:44 - Jul 24 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The strategy was clear. Use the loans for one or two seasons and ease in the numerous 19-22 year olds highly regarded by the club into the first team
Cabango, Cullen Benda and Whittaker have this season been eased into the first team. Garrick, Brandon Cooper (back form loans) and Ollie Cooper are next in line. This is the club strategy.
Cooper knew the club strategy but went along with only the first two thirds of it. He ducked out of the final and most important stage. Presumably he has something more interesting for himself to do?.
Added to those seven are Walsh, Joseph and Piroe, 23 19 and 21 respectively. Added to Benda and the loan returnees this is effectively 7 new squad players. This will be added to a solid defensive core.
These 19-22 must play. Otherwise what is the point of them being at the club? The u21 hs been filled with exciting talent and they will be knocking on the door next season. Butler and Rushesha are already pressing. |
How do you know that is that this strategy was 'only for 1 or 2 seasons'? How is that clear? Cooper reportedly had a South American loan signing lined up and we've been linked to several others. So yet another of your flawed theories busted.
That's if you assume he 'ducked out'. He's obviously in no rush to move onto his next venture owing to him staying on and the lack of vacancies out there. | |
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| Yanks Out on 01:15 - Jul 25 with 941 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Yanks Out on 23:47 - Jul 24 by Chief |
How do you know that is that this strategy was 'only for 1 or 2 seasons'? How is that clear? Cooper reportedly had a South American loan signing lined up and we've been linked to several others. So yet another of your flawed theories busted.
That's if you assume he 'ducked out'. He's obviously in no rush to move onto his next venture owing to him staying on and the lack of vacancies out there. |
Cooper said himself that this was the strategy. I sense he was hooked on elite loans. The club itself has a duty to its own young players. I have explained to you there re 12 -13 players aged 19-22 desperate for their chance.
Brandon Cooper, Garrick, Benda, Ollie Cooper, Cullen Latibeaudire, Whittaker all have long term contracts and must play the more the better. It will be difficult for the club next season for sure. It will be a challenge. This is the club strategy and they have to go with it with total commitment that Cooper could not offer. It is a too big a job for him it seems.
Gibbs White was a disaster. He played a couple of weeks, Swansea got him fit and he was pulled away. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Yanks Out on 01:51 - Jul 25 with 925 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 01:15 - Jul 25 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Cooper said himself that this was the strategy. I sense he was hooked on elite loans. The club itself has a duty to its own young players. I have explained to you there re 12 -13 players aged 19-22 desperate for their chance.
Brandon Cooper, Garrick, Benda, Ollie Cooper, Cullen Latibeaudire, Whittaker all have long term contracts and must play the more the better. It will be difficult for the club next season for sure. It will be a challenge. This is the club strategy and they have to go with it with total commitment that Cooper could not offer. It is a too big a job for him it seems.
Gibbs White was a disaster. He played a couple of weeks, Swansea got him fit and he was pulled away. |
Nothing to do with the size of the job, again if that was the issue he wouldn’t have come here in the first place or indeed stayed for the second year.
Potter had the best chance to get us promoted, failed to get close. Cooper took up the reins knowing it would be even harder for him considering the amount of talent that would be sold each year.
He did it anyway, getting us to a play off place against the odds in his first year and equalling our club record points tally at this level in his second. The man worked wonders.
He did the right thing pulling the plug after that January debacle. Managers get judged on their seasons as a whole and the board room making ludicrous decisions like that was a serious risk to both his reputation and the club. [Post edited 25 Jul 2021 2:04]
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| Yanks Out on 06:42 - Jul 25 with 910 views | Chief |
| Yanks Out on 01:15 - Jul 25 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Cooper said himself that this was the strategy. I sense he was hooked on elite loans. The club itself has a duty to its own young players. I have explained to you there re 12 -13 players aged 19-22 desperate for their chance.
Brandon Cooper, Garrick, Benda, Ollie Cooper, Cullen Latibeaudire, Whittaker all have long term contracts and must play the more the better. It will be difficult for the club next season for sure. It will be a challenge. This is the club strategy and they have to go with it with total commitment that Cooper could not offer. It is a too big a job for him it seems.
Gibbs White was a disaster. He played a couple of weeks, Swansea got him fit and he was pulled away. |
Cooper said publicly that the strategy was to loan players for his first 2 seasons then not loan any beyond that? Why was the loan of a South American imminent then? Yet another of your theories that obviously aren't true.
No one's debating youngsters need to play, that's never been in dispute, so not sure why you keep repeating it. What is completely obvious though is it they need some quality and experience around them. The likes of Grimes are probably going to get sold bringing down the average age even further. The club probably won't pay fees to bring in the level of player needed to Replace such quality and this is where Cooper's loans could have come in.
Don't know the relevance of the mgw thing. Law of averages dictate not every loan will work out. Pure bad luck that one. | |
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| Yanks Out on 06:52 - Jul 25 with 901 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 06:42 - Jul 25 by Chief |
Cooper said publicly that the strategy was to loan players for his first 2 seasons then not loan any beyond that? Why was the loan of a South American imminent then? Yet another of your theories that obviously aren't true.
No one's debating youngsters need to play, that's never been in dispute, so not sure why you keep repeating it. What is completely obvious though is it they need some quality and experience around them. The likes of Grimes are probably going to get sold bringing down the average age even further. The club probably won't pay fees to bring in the level of player needed to Replace such quality and this is where Cooper's loans could have come in.
Don't know the relevance of the mgw thing. Law of averages dictate not every loan will work out. Pure bad luck that one. |
People forget Brendan loaned Frank Nouble, Tamas Priskin and Jermaine Easter.
Thankfully Borini worked. | |
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| Yanks Out on 14:07 - Jul 25 with 848 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Yanks Out on 23:35 - Jul 24 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not sure what that means to be honest, but back to the meat of your nonsense.
So using your coded football speak “top shelf” you mean Premier League quality, then.
Woodman - no
Roberts - maybe
Bidwell - no
Grimes - doubtful
Guehi - yes
Rodon - yes
Cabango - maybe
Gallagher - doubtful
Brewster - apparently not
Ayew - yes
That’s three.
In reality he steered a worse side than Potter had from 10th to 6th, that becoming possible by picking up sufficiently more points than Potter managed to.
The year after we lost even more talent, including one of the “yes” category above, very early on. Despite being let down by the board in January making sub par signings like Arriola, he managed miracles and got us into 4th.
I understand the fashion to frame absolutely everything in the negative, but it will never get past the sensible among us. |
'Top shelf' meant among the best in the championship. He had to get past Franks who had no elite loans. Franks schooled him not once but on several occasions. Frank also managed to be competitive after having a man sent off in last years Semi final. Cooper with this team v 10 could have gone for the throat but settled for 1-0 which was not enough.
Franks has seen his teamlose big player after big player and was still grinding on not moaning.
Comparisons with Potter are irrelevant. Potter took over a team in flux and transitioning. A top manager would not have allowed himself to be bullied in January. Arriola is actually streets better than Korey Smith for example so represent an option and an upgrade. Arriola can actuall score.
Cooper did not have to go. He quit when his budget was cut by the EFL. He always knew it was coming. I would back him if he honoured his contract and accepted the reality of the 3 year contract he signed. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Yanks Out on 14:32 - Jul 25 with 820 views | waynekerr55 |
| Yanks Out on 18:26 - Jul 21 by swan65split |
Club is in safe hands we were told........ |
By fans for fans, or something |  |
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| Yanks Out on 14:35 - Jul 25 with 816 views | Catullus |
| Yanks Out on 23:20 - Jul 24 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Football people can talk "football speak" in their strange coded way (usually associated with very poor grammar) but there is no need for forum posters to repeat it parrot fashion.
"He felt his ambitions were not matched by the clubs". This is an excuse putting the blame on them. It translates to "the parachute payments have finished and I m out".
Last season Cooper had
Woodman,
Roberts
Bidwell
Guehi
Rodon
Cabango
Grimes
Gallagher
Brewster
Ayew
All top shelf performers. He was very lucky to sneak into 6th. Over £100m of young hungry talent plus Ayew Roberts and Bidwell. It should have been enough. That looks real strong to me. |
Of all those names how many actually played in the "top shelf"? Regularly now, not just fleeting appearances and you can't count what happened after they left us either. | |
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| Yanks Out on 15:07 - Jul 25 with 792 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Yanks Out on 14:35 - Jul 25 by Catullus |
Of all those names how many actually played in the "top shelf"? Regularly now, not just fleeting appearances and you can't count what happened after they left us either. |
As championship players go those 9 or 10 are as good as you are going to get in the championship. Cooper scraped in 6th
He had Brentford on the ropes at the Liberty v 10 men and they got away with a 1-0 defeat. Ayew missed a penalty.
Brewster, Gallahger, Guehi, Ayew, Roberts, Rodon, Cabango, Bidwell, Woodman, v 10 men?
Arms tied behind his back? Really? If he cannot win with that scenario then he has no chance next season. Its a job for a man with a big ego and big cahones and total faith in his coaching ability wih or with out money. The players are already at Swansea in all positions. They are young men looking for a leader not one looking at spreadsheets, odds and a chunky transfer budget. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Yanks Out on 02:51 - Jul 26 with 713 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Yanks Out on 15:07 - Jul 25 by ReslovenSwan1 |
As championship players go those 9 or 10 are as good as you are going to get in the championship. Cooper scraped in 6th
He had Brentford on the ropes at the Liberty v 10 men and they got away with a 1-0 defeat. Ayew missed a penalty.
Brewster, Gallahger, Guehi, Ayew, Roberts, Rodon, Cabango, Bidwell, Woodman, v 10 men?
Arms tied behind his back? Really? If he cannot win with that scenario then he has no chance next season. Its a job for a man with a big ego and big cahones and total faith in his coaching ability wih or with out money. The players are already at Swansea in all positions. They are young men looking for a leader not one looking at spreadsheets, odds and a chunky transfer budget. |
Martinez had:-
Britton
Dyer
Williams
Rangel
Bodde
Pratley
Scotland
Jordi Gomez
Joe Allen
De Vries
And came 8th
Sousa had:-
Dobbie
Britton
Dyer
Williams
Rangel
Bodde
Pratley
Scotland
Jordi Gomez
Joe Allen
De Vries
And came 7th
Potter had:-
Olsson
Carter Vickers (American international  )
VdH
Fer
McBurnie
Celina
Dyer
Routledge
Roberts
Dan James
Rodon
Grimes
And came 10th.
Nearly all of those can be described as “as good as it gets” at Championship level, yet none of them really came close. All three of those teams I would take above either of Coopers teams, yet he managed to finish 6th and 4th. [Post edited 26 Jul 2021 2:54]
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| Yanks Out on 14:02 - Jul 26 with 641 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Yanks Out on 02:51 - Jul 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Martinez had:-
Britton
Dyer
Williams
Rangel
Bodde
Pratley
Scotland
Jordi Gomez
Joe Allen
De Vries
And came 8th
Sousa had:-
Dobbie
Britton
Dyer
Williams
Rangel
Bodde
Pratley
Scotland
Jordi Gomez
Joe Allen
De Vries
And came 7th
Potter had:-
Olsson
Carter Vickers (American international )
VdH
Fer
McBurnie
Celina
Dyer
Routledge
Roberts
Dan James
Rodon
Grimes
And came 10th.
Nearly all of those can be described as “as good as it gets” at Championship level, yet none of them really came close. All three of those teams I would take above either of Coopers teams, yet he managed to finish 6th and 4th. [Post edited 26 Jul 2021 2:54]
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This is not an an unreasonable argument and well done for doing the research and providing the data. I know it takes time.
I do not dispute Cooper did well in terms of position and defensive statistics etc.
What I dispute is the claim that Cooper was in some way let down by the management. Martinez found good players cheaply and played them Cooper used imported loans.
Martinez paid pennies for Dyer, Williams, Rangel, Bodde, Scotland, Gomez (on loan) and De Vries. I read somewhere Bodde was a tip from the much maligned Van Zweden with his Den Haag links.
Swansea have paid pennies for Whittaker, Joseph. Piroe Benda, Manning, Bidwell Bennett etc. Cooper was not being asked to "work with his arms tied behind his back".
He has a credible squad to work with. He has done a hard headed assessment and determined that his methods would not work with this squad given its lack of experience. He does not like the probabilities . I agree with him. Swansea needs better than Cooperball with these players promising as they are. I being a positive soul wanted to keep Cooper and use influence to improve his coaching.
To this end I recommended incorporating better coaching staff to replace Marsh or Tate to improve passing and possession stats. This approach allied to a new contract seemed progressive to me. Coopers style currently is fan unfriendly and prevented him from getting Premier league jobs. The "turgid playing style" tag has followed him around. He may have been an ideal replacement for Hiodgeson but the ownership were not convinced by statistics alone. I know and he knows his style is the hallmark of say Kenny Jackett who never will earn the super big bucks.
Cooper was good at beating teams with low resources. Sheff Wed Birmingham Barnsley etc. Now he has to beat them with the same budget and in house players owned by Swansea. He cannot rely on ringers from his u17 class. He assessed it and walked away from the challenge.
He can be upset about Ayew and Grimes going but the club would have offered a wage to keep them. It was Coopers job to get Grimes and Roberts to extend. Both will have to go if offers are good enough.
In summary Cooper was supported by the management according to an agreed strategy and Cooper walked away from his contract after he failed to win at Wembley and tie down his captain and star defender to a new deal. He has a clutch of very promising players that now must deliver their potential. There is no certainties that they will develop. He has declined the challenge. This was disappointing.
The club and Winter have flagged to the fans that the club will now work to develop in house talent. Garrick, Brandon Cooper, Cullen and Benda are now at a cross roads. Lets see how they do. Others like Whittaker Joseph and Piroe need to be challenged and pushed as well. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Yanks Out on 17:22 - Jul 26 with 619 views | owainglyndwr |
| Yanks Out on 14:02 - Jul 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This is not an an unreasonable argument and well done for doing the research and providing the data. I know it takes time.
I do not dispute Cooper did well in terms of position and defensive statistics etc.
What I dispute is the claim that Cooper was in some way let down by the management. Martinez found good players cheaply and played them Cooper used imported loans.
Martinez paid pennies for Dyer, Williams, Rangel, Bodde, Scotland, Gomez (on loan) and De Vries. I read somewhere Bodde was a tip from the much maligned Van Zweden with his Den Haag links.
Swansea have paid pennies for Whittaker, Joseph. Piroe Benda, Manning, Bidwell Bennett etc. Cooper was not being asked to "work with his arms tied behind his back".
He has a credible squad to work with. He has done a hard headed assessment and determined that his methods would not work with this squad given its lack of experience. He does not like the probabilities . I agree with him. Swansea needs better than Cooperball with these players promising as they are. I being a positive soul wanted to keep Cooper and use influence to improve his coaching.
To this end I recommended incorporating better coaching staff to replace Marsh or Tate to improve passing and possession stats. This approach allied to a new contract seemed progressive to me. Coopers style currently is fan unfriendly and prevented him from getting Premier league jobs. The "turgid playing style" tag has followed him around. He may have been an ideal replacement for Hiodgeson but the ownership were not convinced by statistics alone. I know and he knows his style is the hallmark of say Kenny Jackett who never will earn the super big bucks.
Cooper was good at beating teams with low resources. Sheff Wed Birmingham Barnsley etc. Now he has to beat them with the same budget and in house players owned by Swansea. He cannot rely on ringers from his u17 class. He assessed it and walked away from the challenge.
He can be upset about Ayew and Grimes going but the club would have offered a wage to keep them. It was Coopers job to get Grimes and Roberts to extend. Both will have to go if offers are good enough.
In summary Cooper was supported by the management according to an agreed strategy and Cooper walked away from his contract after he failed to win at Wembley and tie down his captain and star defender to a new deal. He has a clutch of very promising players that now must deliver their potential. There is no certainties that they will develop. He has declined the challenge. This was disappointing.
The club and Winter have flagged to the fans that the club will now work to develop in house talent. Garrick, Brandon Cooper, Cullen and Benda are now at a cross roads. Lets see how they do. Others like Whittaker Joseph and Piroe need to be challenged and pushed as well. |
You want to point out that these are your views on the club,
Do you know Cooper was supported.
No
We don't have enough experience in this squad ....good talented young players yes . Experience no.
Unless who ever becomes the manager he would need to bring in one or 2 players with experience , or we could find ourselves scrapping to avoid relegation | | | |
| Yanks Out on 17:44 - Jul 26 with 613 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Yanks Out on 17:22 - Jul 26 by owainglyndwr |
You want to point out that these are your views on the club,
Do you know Cooper was supported.
No
We don't have enough experience in this squad ....good talented young players yes . Experience no.
Unless who ever becomes the manager he would need to bring in one or 2 players with experience , or we could find ourselves scrapping to avoid relegation |
The club strategy is to blood and play these players. If the club is basing its future on the academy this is what it must do.
When Mr Jenkins and Mr Morgan made their strategy the word 'Ajax' was well to the fore of their thinking. Swansea cannot compete with the big guns of the big urban cities with out it.
Jenkins pulled of the unbelievable for 5 or 6 years but it could not be sustained when injuries and bad luck and some bad judgement inevitably occurred.
Burnley have come to the same conclusion. Their star player with a big ticket price tag ids Dwight McNeil.
There is plenty of experience in the squad. Roberts, Bennett, Naughton, Fulton, Smith, Manning, Bidwell, Lowe Walsh is near 24. Routledge. Hamer. Cabango is an experienced head on young shoulders. Grimes but he may be off. 13 right there.
The new man will have one or two good pros to bring in. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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