| Russia invade Ukraine 14:17 - Dec 23 with 152297 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Discuss.
Also why is Putin always described in the media as this rugged strongman? He’s barely five foot tall with his high heels on.
But that’s another debate.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 11:38 - Apr 11 with 1102 views | controversial_jack |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 11:02 - Apr 11 by Lorax |
NO, they haven't been doing it to themselves, what you highlight there is Russian separatists backed by Moscow attempting a violent coup. Those atrocities obviously didn't stop as the Russian army has been perpetrating more and more.
Those 14000 dead are a result of Russian separatists starting fighting in Donbass and Luhansk. |
You think?
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/03/13/censored-reports-from-donbass-make-c | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 11:53 - Apr 11 with 1091 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 07:09 - Apr 11 by Scotia |
The same applies to the cars and building windows. Do you seriously think that someone would be stupid enough to make such a simple mistake in an apparent global conspiracy?
Whoever is responsible must think the entire population of the world is stupid, but they obviously didn't account for the Investigative genius that can be found on football forums.
If it is one of those missiles from the link then it's quite possible it crashed. |
So, you actually belive that those cars were destroyed where they stand by missile explosions that did not break any windows 10ft away?
OK. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:19 - Apr 11 with 1075 views | Lorax |
Hmmm, censored reports say.....another website that I have never heard of and could be anything. What I did see was it is always highly critical of the USA. That's fair enough I guess, lots to criticise, but is it fair criticism? | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:19 - Apr 11 with 1072 views | A_Fans_Dad |
The vast majority of those photos are not OTR-21 Tochka missiles, they are TOS-1A Rockets from the Mobile multiple rocket launchers.
They are in totally different classes, but even those penetrated the ground, even concrete and roads.
They are 10ft long, 8" in diameter, weigh 173Kg and only have a range of about 12Km maximum.
Whereas the OTR-21 is 21ft long, 26" in diameter, weigh 2000Kg with a range of 15-70Km.
Let me know when actually find some photos of OTR-21s sticking up out of the ground, not just laying on the grass or concrete.
ps You do know that Ukraine has about 500 OTR-21s, plus there are all those destroyed Russian OTR-21 Mobile units with damaged missiles on board. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:22 - Apr 11 with 1074 views | Lorax |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 11:53 - Apr 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
So, you actually belive that those cars were destroyed where they stand by missile explosions that did not break any windows 10ft away?
OK. |
Those misslies could have hit well short of the cars and that station but burning debris could have hit the cars and if one of them caught fire, it could spread to the others.
I have to admit though, how the station itself looks completely untouched is a bit odd. Missiles throw out debris and shrapnel, if it hit the cars then you'd have thought some would hit the station too.
I don't doubt a missile hit, killing 50 people. It's entirely possible the Ukrainians burnt those cars for extra visual effect. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:49 - Apr 11 with 1065 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:22 - Apr 11 by Lorax |
Those misslies could have hit well short of the cars and that station but burning debris could have hit the cars and if one of them caught fire, it could spread to the others.
I have to admit though, how the station itself looks completely untouched is a bit odd. Missiles throw out debris and shrapnel, if it hit the cars then you'd have thought some would hit the station too.
I don't doubt a missile hit, killing 50 people. It's entirely possible the Ukrainians burnt those cars for extra visual effect. |
Is the Tarmac melted where the cars are parked and covered with melted rubber and plastic?
Is the building sooty damaged from burning plastic?
Why is white car rusty?
You have to look at everything with a very critical eye. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:54 - Apr 11 with 1066 views | Lorax |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:49 - Apr 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
Is the Tarmac melted where the cars are parked and covered with melted rubber and plastic?
Is the building sooty damaged from burning plastic?
Why is white car rusty?
You have to look at everything with a very critical eye. |
That all adds to the "visual effect" aspect but it doesnt prove the missile didn't hit. If those cars were moved there, it doesn't prove the missile strike was faked. it just proves that propaganda is in play on both sides which is something we all know, because it always is whoever is in conflict. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 16:06 - Apr 11 with 1050 views | Scotia |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 11:53 - Apr 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
So, you actually belive that those cars were destroyed where they stand by missile explosions that did not break any windows 10ft away?
OK. |
Do you think that if those cars were destroyed to that extent by an explosion they'd have stayed in the same place? | | | |
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| Russia invade Ukraine on 16:35 - Apr 11 with 1037 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 16:06 - Apr 11 by Scotia |
Do you think that if those cars were destroyed to that extent by an explosion they'd have stayed in the same place? |
Do you think that if those cars were destroyed to that extent by an explosion the windows would all be unbroken?
As to your question, they were tossed there by this massive controlled explosion that positioned them perfectly against the kerb, in line and a foot or two apart.
 | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 17:28 - Apr 11 with 1029 views | Boundy |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:19 - Apr 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
The vast majority of those photos are not OTR-21 Tochka missiles, they are TOS-1A Rockets from the Mobile multiple rocket launchers.
They are in totally different classes, but even those penetrated the ground, even concrete and roads.
They are 10ft long, 8" in diameter, weigh 173Kg and only have a range of about 12Km maximum.
Whereas the OTR-21 is 21ft long, 26" in diameter, weigh 2000Kg with a range of 15-70Km.
Let me know when actually find some photos of OTR-21s sticking up out of the ground, not just laying on the grass or concrete.
ps You do know that Ukraine has about 500 OTR-21s, plus there are all those destroyed Russian OTR-21 Mobile units with damaged missiles on board. |
I think you need to read my 1st sentence again but just in case you miss it again "So IF it is " etc. Let know when you can prove your theory | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Russia invade Ukraine on 17:45 - Apr 11 with 1014 views | Scotia |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 16:35 - Apr 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
Do you think that if those cars were destroyed to that extent by an explosion the windows would all be unbroken?
As to your question, they were tossed there by this massive controlled explosion that positioned them perfectly against the kerb, in line and a foot or two apart.
|
Of course they wouldn't but has anyone actually claimed they were destroyed by the missile in that exact position? They could have been moved they could have been destroyed by fire and not the original explosion. We don't know.
That makes no difference to whether or not the Russians blew up a train station packed with displaced Ukrainians. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 19:34 - Apr 11 with 989 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 17:28 - Apr 11 by Boundy |
I think you need to read my 1st sentence again but just in case you miss it again "So IF it is " etc. Let know when you can prove your theory |
You said if it was the Missile identified by the Ukrainian themselve to the media including the BBC as one of the 2 missiles that hit the Station killing 30 people.
They later changed it to 50 people and maybe it wasn't that missile that killed them unless it discharged submunitions, or that one may have been shot down.
You then looked for and presented Rockets as evidence of misfiring missiles, because you obviously don't know the difference.
Now you want me to prove not my theory, but the Ukranian's rather changeable "story".
I don't think I need to bother. [Post edited 11 Apr 2022 19:35]
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| Russia invade Ukraine on 22:28 - Apr 11 with 955 views | Boundy |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 19:34 - Apr 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
You said if it was the Missile identified by the Ukrainian themselve to the media including the BBC as one of the 2 missiles that hit the Station killing 30 people.
They later changed it to 50 people and maybe it wasn't that missile that killed them unless it discharged submunitions, or that one may have been shot down.
You then looked for and presented Rockets as evidence of misfiring missiles, because you obviously don't know the difference.
Now you want me to prove not my theory, but the Ukranian's rather changeable "story".
I don't think I need to bother. [Post edited 11 Apr 2022 19:35]
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What on earth are you babbling on about ? I asked you what type of missile it was , you kindly guessed the type ,I responded with my comment "IF" then presented you with a number of images which contained both rocket and missiles which are by definition " missile, a rocket-propelled weapon designed to deliver an explosive warhead with great accuracy at high speed. Missiles vary from small tactical weapons that are effective out to only a few hundred feet to much larger strategic weapons that have ranges of several thousand miles." Could you do me a favour and I do hope its not just a threat but please don't bother and stick to teaching kids the rudimentary of an internal combustion engine | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
| |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 22:30 - Apr 11 with 954 views | majorraglan |
The report is incorrect according to almost every reputable source that I’ve come across.
In February 2013 the Ukrainian parliament voted to finalise discussions with the EU regarding a free trade agreement, the President of the Ukraine decided to ignore what the democratically elected Parliament had voted for and decided to sign an agreement with Russia instead. Yanukovich the President was widely perceived as being corrupt and protestors were unhappy with what had happened, the influence of oligarchs, human rights abuses and it kicked off in November 2013. Yanukovich fled and was voted out of office in 2014, there was a democratic election several months later which returned a new president.
It’s also worth remembering that in 2010 after being voted in to power, Yanukovich consolidated his grip on power after the Ukrainian Constitution was changed, what happened was, according to some international observers “highly unusual”. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 23:04 - Apr 11 with 941 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 22:28 - Apr 11 by Boundy |
What on earth are you babbling on about ? I asked you what type of missile it was , you kindly guessed the type ,I responded with my comment "IF" then presented you with a number of images which contained both rocket and missiles which are by definition " missile, a rocket-propelled weapon designed to deliver an explosive warhead with great accuracy at high speed. Missiles vary from small tactical weapons that are effective out to only a few hundred feet to much larger strategic weapons that have ranges of several thousand miles." Could you do me a favour and I do hope its not just a threat but please don't bother and stick to teaching kids the rudimentary of an internal combustion engine |
I did not guess the type, I told you what the Ukranians said it was.
It is a long range guided weapon and practically all the photos you showed were short range unguided barrage rockets.
None of which changes anything to do with the story that alleged it was the missile that killed the people and destroyed the cars without breaking a single window 10ft away, but looks as if it was dropped on the grass off the back of a lorry.
ps What are you talking about teaching kids about engines, you must have me mixed up with someone else. [Post edited 11 Apr 2022 23:22]
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| Russia invade Ukraine on 23:25 - Apr 11 with 936 views | Lorax |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 22:30 - Apr 11 by majorraglan |
The report is incorrect according to almost every reputable source that I’ve come across.
In February 2013 the Ukrainian parliament voted to finalise discussions with the EU regarding a free trade agreement, the President of the Ukraine decided to ignore what the democratically elected Parliament had voted for and decided to sign an agreement with Russia instead. Yanukovich the President was widely perceived as being corrupt and protestors were unhappy with what had happened, the influence of oligarchs, human rights abuses and it kicked off in November 2013. Yanukovich fled and was voted out of office in 2014, there was a democratic election several months later which returned a new president.
It’s also worth remembering that in 2010 after being voted in to power, Yanukovich consolidated his grip on power after the Ukrainian Constitution was changed, what happened was, according to some international observers “highly unusual”. |
I have tried pointing out that Yanukovych was not removed by a violent coup but was voted out by Parliament first and the violence started afterwards, that has been scoffed at by Contro.
Some people want to believe what Russia is saying and dispute anything the Ukraine says.
I don't doubt that Ukraine is putting propaganda out, every country does. But going on the vast majority of evidence, Russia is guilty as sin. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 00:04 - Apr 12 with 930 views | controversial_jack |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 23:25 - Apr 11 by Lorax |
I have tried pointing out that Yanukovych was not removed by a violent coup but was voted out by Parliament first and the violence started afterwards, that has been scoffed at by Contro.
Some people want to believe what Russia is saying and dispute anything the Ukraine says.
I don't doubt that Ukraine is putting propaganda out, every country does. But going on the vast majority of evidence, Russia is guilty as sin. |
Ukraine is in a state of crisis two days after the country’s democratically elected president was ousted following months of street protests that left at least 82 people dead. On Saturday, Ukraine’s Parliament voted to remove President Viktor Yanukovych, a move Yanukovych described as a coup.
It was unconstitutional, and a coup can take many forms, but what a lovely stable democratic country the Ukraine has been | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 00:32 - Apr 12 with 918 views | majorraglan |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 00:04 - Apr 12 by controversial_jack |
Ukraine is in a state of crisis two days after the country’s democratically elected president was ousted following months of street protests that left at least 82 people dead. On Saturday, Ukraine’s Parliament voted to remove President Viktor Yanukovych, a move Yanukovych described as a coup.
It was unconstitutional, and a coup can take many forms, but what a lovely stable democratic country the Ukraine has been |
The protests started after he ignored a democratic decision made in parliament to open negotiations with the EU and off his own bat decided to pursue an agreement with Putin and Russia, despite this being contrary to the wishes of the people and parliament.
Yanukovych was also accused by an international organisation of being a top example of corruption. The protesters used violence as did Yanukovych’s police and internal agencies, who used it first I don’t know. Shortly after coming to power, Yanukovich’s Ukraine changed its constitution giving the President additional powers at the expense of parliament, the decision was controversial because most observers believed the Constitutional Court didn’t have the authority to make the changes and 4 judges resigned in the run up to the decision being made. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 13:10 - Apr 12 with 871 views | Lorax |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 00:04 - Apr 12 by controversial_jack |
Ukraine is in a state of crisis two days after the country’s democratically elected president was ousted following months of street protests that left at least 82 people dead. On Saturday, Ukraine’s Parliament voted to remove President Viktor Yanukovych, a move Yanukovych described as a coup.
It was unconstitutional, and a coup can take many forms, but what a lovely stable democratic country the Ukraine has been |
Those street protests, as I told you before, people were killed by snipers shooting at crowds under orders from Yanukovych. The protests had been peaceful.
Yanukovych would call it a coup, he was hardly going to say "fair cop guv" was he?
It was unconstituional purely because he illegally altered the constitution.
Who has claimed Ukraine was a lovely, stable democratic country? How could t have been with somebody like Yanukovych in power?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/viktor-yanukovych-ukraine-corrupti
https://transparency.eu/corruption-opulence-and-decadence-in-ukraine/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25182830
Stop defending the indefensible. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 13:27 - Apr 12 with 865 views | controversial_jack |
But protesters from western Ukraine, including far-right nationalists, sought to turn this policy dispute into a means for overthrowing the elected government. Police efforts to quell the disturbances turned violent, with the police not the only culprits. Police faced armed neo-Nazi storm troopers who attacked with firebombs and other weapons.
Though the U.S. news media did show scenes of these violent melees, the U.S. press almost universally blamed Yanukovych — and took almost gleeful pleasure as his elected government collapsed and was replaced by thuggish right-wing militias “guarding” government buildings.
With Yanukovych and many of his supporters fleeing for their lives, the opposition parties seized control of parliament and began passing draconian new laws often unanimously, as neo-Nazi thugs patrolled the scene. Amazingly, the U.S. news media treated all this as uplifting, a popular uprising against a tyrant, not a case of a coup government operating in collusion with violent extremists.
In the upside-down world that has become the U.S. news media, the democratically elected president was a dictator and the coup makers who overthrew the popularly chosen leader were “pro-democracy” activists. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 14:51 - Apr 12 with 849 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 13:27 - Apr 12 by controversial_jack |
But protesters from western Ukraine, including far-right nationalists, sought to turn this policy dispute into a means for overthrowing the elected government. Police efforts to quell the disturbances turned violent, with the police not the only culprits. Police faced armed neo-Nazi storm troopers who attacked with firebombs and other weapons.
Though the U.S. news media did show scenes of these violent melees, the U.S. press almost universally blamed Yanukovych — and took almost gleeful pleasure as his elected government collapsed and was replaced by thuggish right-wing militias “guarding” government buildings.
With Yanukovych and many of his supporters fleeing for their lives, the opposition parties seized control of parliament and began passing draconian new laws often unanimously, as neo-Nazi thugs patrolled the scene. Amazingly, the U.S. news media treated all this as uplifting, a popular uprising against a tyrant, not a case of a coup government operating in collusion with violent extremists.
In the upside-down world that has become the U.S. news media, the democratically elected president was a dictator and the coup makers who overthrew the popularly chosen leader were “pro-democracy” activists. |
Commonly known as a "CIA colour revolution". | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 17:57 - Apr 12 with 828 views | majorraglan |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 13:27 - Apr 12 by controversial_jack |
But protesters from western Ukraine, including far-right nationalists, sought to turn this policy dispute into a means for overthrowing the elected government. Police efforts to quell the disturbances turned violent, with the police not the only culprits. Police faced armed neo-Nazi storm troopers who attacked with firebombs and other weapons.
Though the U.S. news media did show scenes of these violent melees, the U.S. press almost universally blamed Yanukovych — and took almost gleeful pleasure as his elected government collapsed and was replaced by thuggish right-wing militias “guarding” government buildings.
With Yanukovych and many of his supporters fleeing for their lives, the opposition parties seized control of parliament and began passing draconian new laws often unanimously, as neo-Nazi thugs patrolled the scene. Amazingly, the U.S. news media treated all this as uplifting, a popular uprising against a tyrant, not a case of a coup government operating in collusion with violent extremists.
In the upside-down world that has become the U.S. news media, the democratically elected president was a dictator and the coup makers who overthrew the popularly chosen leader were “pro-democracy” activists. |
The president ignored the will of the democratically elected parliament who’d mandated him to negotiate with the EU and instead he signed a deal against the parliamentary mandate he’d been given with Putin. He also got the Constitution changed to give himself more power under what can only be seen as dubious circumstances. Putin has done the same thing in Russia, he can now be President until 2036! [Post edited 13 Apr 2022 15:02]
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| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:44 - Apr 13 with 773 views | Lorax |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 13:27 - Apr 12 by controversial_jack |
But protesters from western Ukraine, including far-right nationalists, sought to turn this policy dispute into a means for overthrowing the elected government. Police efforts to quell the disturbances turned violent, with the police not the only culprits. Police faced armed neo-Nazi storm troopers who attacked with firebombs and other weapons.
Though the U.S. news media did show scenes of these violent melees, the U.S. press almost universally blamed Yanukovych — and took almost gleeful pleasure as his elected government collapsed and was replaced by thuggish right-wing militias “guarding” government buildings.
With Yanukovych and many of his supporters fleeing for their lives, the opposition parties seized control of parliament and began passing draconian new laws often unanimously, as neo-Nazi thugs patrolled the scene. Amazingly, the U.S. news media treated all this as uplifting, a popular uprising against a tyrant, not a case of a coup government operating in collusion with violent extremists.
In the upside-down world that has become the U.S. news media, the democratically elected president was a dictator and the coup makers who overthrew the popularly chosen leader were “pro-democracy” activists. |
Neo Nazi storm troopers? Seized control of parliament?
Yanukovych ran and tried to take his misbegotten wealth with him. He went against the wishes of a democratically elected Parliament and against the wishes of the people. The proof of that is in the way the people have responded to their leader, Zelenskyy and the illegal invasion by Russia.
If the Ukrainian people wanted Putin in and Yanukovych back, they would not be fighting, they would be welcoming Russian troops. You can't see it though, you're blinded by pro Russian propaganda.
Just look at Bojo today, would any of us complain if parliament had a vote of no confidence and he was displaced? Or would you be calling that a coup against democracy too? And Bojo is nowhere near as bad as Yanukovych who openly boasted of his corruption. | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 15:05 - Apr 13 with 747 views | controversial_jack |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 12:44 - Apr 13 by Lorax |
Neo Nazi storm troopers? Seized control of parliament?
Yanukovych ran and tried to take his misbegotten wealth with him. He went against the wishes of a democratically elected Parliament and against the wishes of the people. The proof of that is in the way the people have responded to their leader, Zelenskyy and the illegal invasion by Russia.
If the Ukrainian people wanted Putin in and Yanukovych back, they would not be fighting, they would be welcoming Russian troops. You can't see it though, you're blinded by pro Russian propaganda.
Just look at Bojo today, would any of us complain if parliament had a vote of no confidence and he was displaced? Or would you be calling that a coup against democracy too? And Bojo is nowhere near as bad as Yanukovych who openly boasted of his corruption. |
Zelensky, was hugely unpopular before the conflict.His ratings were something like 21% and half of the Ukrainian electorate didn't even want him to run for another term.
Nothing like a war or conflict to improve a leaders popularity. We saw it here in the early 80s | | | |
| Russia invade Ukraine on 15:34 - Apr 13 with 740 views | felixstowe_jack |
I see putins allies the eco warriors extremist have been p
Blocking or fuel distribution centres. This has resulted in petrol stations running out of supplies. Businesses now have to waste time driving around to find petrol stations that are still open. This will lead to increased cost which will be passed onto customers and increase inflation | |
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