| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams 12:56 - Jul 17 with 1254 views | KeithHaynes |
From the OS.
Swansea City Under-21s were held to a draw in their second pre-season outing as they faced Stevenage Under-21s.
The Swans came from behind twice in the game, with Josh Thomas and Kai Ludvigsen netting, and had chances to earn a victory.
It was Stevenage who took the lead, a mix up at the back allowing a poor goal to roll past Remy Mitchell after just two minutes.
But four minutes later, the Swans were level. Thomas getting on the end of a great ball from Corey Hurford and tapping home for his second goal of pre-season.
Despite the Swans having chances to take the lead, with Joe Thomas and Azeem Abdulai coming close, it would be the visitors who retook the lead. Mitchell was dispossessed in his own box, giving Stevenage a tap in for their second.
Abdulai struck the crossbar just minutes after, but the Swans were left frustrated for much of the remainder of the game, with a number of balls flashing across the Stevenage box.
But Ludvigsen would finally find the much-deserved leveller. Tarrelle Whittaker’s free kick was saved onto the post, but Ludvigsen followed up well to head the Swans level.
Swansea City: Remy Mitchell, Joe Thomas, Ben Blythe, Wasiri Williams, Harry Jones, Josh Carey, Azeem Abdulai (captain), Ben Lloyd, Joel Cotterill, Corey Hurford, Josh Thomas.
Substitutes: Kai Ludvigsen, Filip Lissah, Zane Myers, Ruben Davies, Tarrelle Whittaker, Sam Leverett, Archie Matthews. |  |
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| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 13:10 - Jul 17 with 1225 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Another two mix ups at the back. Swansea player must be able to take calculated risks at the back like many European sides. If young prospects cannot manage keep ball then they are moved on. There were countless mix up at the back last season and 3 or 4 never made it past this level (for Swansea anyway).
Practice practice and practice again. [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 13:11]
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| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 13:17 - Jul 17 with 1211 views | jasper_T |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 13:10 - Jul 17 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Another two mix ups at the back. Swansea player must be able to take calculated risks at the back like many European sides. If young prospects cannot manage keep ball then they are moved on. There were countless mix up at the back last season and 3 or 4 never made it past this level (for Swansea anyway).
Practice practice and practice again. [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 13:11]
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Or the system is flawed and expecting miracles from players. Playing out from the back is nothing new for Swans development sides that produced Davies, Cabango, Rodon and Roberts, it's only last season we started seeing defensive mixups each and every week.
Get rid of all the lads making mistakes playing this way and we won't have a team left. |  | | |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 15:18 - Jul 17 with 1119 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 13:17 - Jul 17 by jasper_T |
Or the system is flawed and expecting miracles from players. Playing out from the back is nothing new for Swans development sides that produced Davies, Cabango, Rodon and Roberts, it's only last season we started seeing defensive mixups each and every week.
Get rid of all the lads making mistakes playing this way and we won't have a team left. |
Mix up occur from
a) low skills
b) low concentration
c) poor team work.
d) poor spacial awareness.
e) Tendency to panic.
I saw Swansea players in the u23 forcing passes to payers under pressure when another defender was free. Crazy play. O'Leary told his players they would be given time to develop but were making the same mistakes at the end of the season as they were at the start.
If you are a Swansea player for 6-8 years you must have the basic skills of controlling the ball and pass. A number of last years defenders found it all too much for them and were found out during development. That is what it is for.
If Eriksen, Jacob Jones, Margetson, Cameron Evans and Butler have figured it out over 12 long months of practice and experience they would be in the first team picture. Now they can hoof it at Carmarthen or Barry Town.
If the local boys are not up to it players will be need to be brought in. Its brutal but the way it has to be. The philosophy. Monk Tate Williams were never cultured ball players. | |
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| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 15:22 - Jul 17 with 1118 views | jasper_T |
Monk, Tate and Williams would have been lost at sea trying to play the Martin system. | | | |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 16:18 - Jul 17 with 1071 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 15:22 - Jul 17 by jasper_T |
Monk, Tate and Williams would have been lost at sea trying to play the Martin system. |
They played beautiful stuff under Brendan. They got roughed up once or twice but were always in control. Under Laudrup with Chico coming in Swansea defenders were never hustled or panicked and played out from the back smoothly.
Potter players some ridiculous 'high risk' defensive play with VDH and others with Grimes at fullback. | |
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| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 16:28 - Jul 17 with 1067 views | jasper_T |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 16:18 - Jul 17 by ReslovenSwan1 |
They played beautiful stuff under Brendan. They got roughed up once or twice but were always in control. Under Laudrup with Chico coming in Swansea defenders were never hustled or panicked and played out from the back smoothly.
Potter players some ridiculous 'high risk' defensive play with VDH and others with Grimes at fullback. |
None of those managers played the way we do now with no wide passing option available. We're easy to press because we force everything through a narrow strip in the middle of the pitch. Wingbacks are often the furthest players forward, and when we play a back four they tuck in narrow and again often get further forward than the midfield.
It's not a one size fits all possession system. The way we do it invites problems and requires exceptional ability. | | | |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 20:54 - Jul 17 with 926 views | AndyCole |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 16:28 - Jul 17 by jasper_T |
None of those managers played the way we do now with no wide passing option available. We're easy to press because we force everything through a narrow strip in the middle of the pitch. Wingbacks are often the furthest players forward, and when we play a back four they tuck in narrow and again often get further forward than the midfield.
It's not a one size fits all possession system. The way we do it invites problems and requires exceptional ability. |
As the second best most insightful football analyst here Jasper:
- what the heck is Martin's rationale for doing what he does, his 'system', his 'process' ?
- what model is he looking to emulate ? (he's clearly not clever enough to innovate)
- what other club plays the way he wants us to ?
Cheers. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 23:34 - Jul 17 with 867 views | jasper_T |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 20:54 - Jul 17 by AndyCole |
As the second best most insightful football analyst here Jasper:
- what the heck is Martin's rationale for doing what he does, his 'system', his 'process' ?
- what model is he looking to emulate ? (he's clearly not clever enough to innovate)
- what other club plays the way he wants us to ?
Cheers. |
There's logic to it. Push wide players high to create pockets of space behind them, press high to win back possession quickly and in advantageous areas, congest the centre of the pitch to make that easier and also monopolise the ball.
The problem for me is that the positives aren't outweighing the negatives when everything is put together. Sustained possession isn't as useful (either for creating chances or wearing other teams down) when you don't stretch the pitch from side to side. Pressing high with that congested central pack is easy to play out when teams can go either wide or direct. Misplace a single pass in sustained possession and the high placement for the press leaves us exposed. Players constantly moving into those wide spaces we create takes a lot of energy and brings goalscorers out of positions they're most dangerous. Individually interesting or good ideas can give bad results if they're not complimentary. We were very quickly sussed put by half-decent managers.
Hopefully the back four system (with further tinkering) is Plan A this season, as the wingbacks for me just wasn't the answer. For all the talk of a "process" that approach changed only very slightly over the course of a full season. A manager incapable of evolution eventually faces revolution. | | | |
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| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 11:31 - Jul 18 with 772 views | AndyCole |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 23:34 - Jul 17 by jasper_T |
There's logic to it. Push wide players high to create pockets of space behind them, press high to win back possession quickly and in advantageous areas, congest the centre of the pitch to make that easier and also monopolise the ball.
The problem for me is that the positives aren't outweighing the negatives when everything is put together. Sustained possession isn't as useful (either for creating chances or wearing other teams down) when you don't stretch the pitch from side to side. Pressing high with that congested central pack is easy to play out when teams can go either wide or direct. Misplace a single pass in sustained possession and the high placement for the press leaves us exposed. Players constantly moving into those wide spaces we create takes a lot of energy and brings goalscorers out of positions they're most dangerous. Individually interesting or good ideas can give bad results if they're not complimentary. We were very quickly sussed put by half-decent managers.
Hopefully the back four system (with further tinkering) is Plan A this season, as the wingbacks for me just wasn't the answer. For all the talk of a "process" that approach changed only very slightly over the course of a full season. A manager incapable of evolution eventually faces revolution. |
And there we have it, for the less informed, the laggards, the rose-tinted specs sheeple.
However despite the RMv2.0 model/system/process - The Plymouth game had us massively exposed in behind down the flanks; the Rovers game we were far too slow turning and tracking. We are still sitting ducks, esp with our wide defensive players now tucking narrow into a clogged midfield.
This is the stuff a few here have been banging on about all last term, esp Dr_P who calls it live on the matchday threads.
We were also massively out-gunned athletically, despite the mid-pre-season. Up against better teams we were often rag-dolled - Downs going down like a baby when Moore brushed him off which cost us a goal.
We now still lack zip, verve and dynamism. Despite nigh on through a long pre-season.
C'mon Martinistas - say something, anything of substance.......
. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
| |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 19:05 - Jul 18 with 653 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 11:31 - Jul 18 by AndyCole |
And there we have it, for the less informed, the laggards, the rose-tinted specs sheeple.
However despite the RMv2.0 model/system/process - The Plymouth game had us massively exposed in behind down the flanks; the Rovers game we were far too slow turning and tracking. We are still sitting ducks, esp with our wide defensive players now tucking narrow into a clogged midfield.
This is the stuff a few here have been banging on about all last term, esp Dr_P who calls it live on the matchday threads.
We were also massively out-gunned athletically, despite the mid-pre-season. Up against better teams we were often rag-dolled - Downs going down like a baby when Moore brushed him off which cost us a goal.
We now still lack zip, verve and dynamism. Despite nigh on through a long pre-season.
C'mon Martinistas - say something, anything of substance.......
. |
I have to agree and although it’s only a friendly that game against Plymouth we did look ropey.
I suppose Charlton on Saturday will give a better insight | |
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| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 21:10 - Jul 18 with 618 views | AndyCole |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 19:05 - Jul 18 by KeithHaynes |
I have to agree and although it’s only a friendly that game against Plymouth we did look ropey.
I suppose Charlton on Saturday will give a better insight |
It was thoroughly underwhelming, a game I was looking forward to to gauge the progress of a RM pre-season and see our new recruits, esp at the back.Â
We have the players to have a proper pop. We need to see success again. Some of us are fed up with watching us lose so much, especially the manner of losing.
Rusty needs to Bin (Rusty Bin) his idealistic models and focus on winning. Winning games effectively, efficiently and entertainingly.
And not winning PR soundbites for brand Rusty. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
| |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 08:24 - Jul 19 with 539 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Yes calling it live is the true acid test AC. Last term it was uncanny the amount of times it was clearly stated how we are going to concede or what we needed to expose in the opposition in order to take advantage. Martin was consistently 2 steps behind, often leaving it until it was too late.
What usually happens then, is people try to change what happened, what was obvious and what was changed. So documenting it as it happens is always pretty rewarding as a counter to those revisions that happen in the days following.
When we couldn’t score for toffee, it was noted that our play is too slow and too short meaning the opposition aren’t afraid to over press us knowing we won’t go long and expose the spaces they leave behind and they also have heaps of time to get back into position because we won’t move it quickly. After weeks and months of this criticism, finally we started to score some and just by magic they all seemed to come from longer balls and quick direct moves utilising the pace of Oba.
For all Martin’s talk about philosophy, he has absolutely no clue how to play it intelligently. I’m not saying he was reading and listening to posters on here of course before any of the trolls pipe up with their usual guff, it’s just telling that what is obvious to many immediately, takes him weeks and months to realise it.
For me, that’s simply because he is wedded to it. It’s the only way he knows how to play despite it never being successful anywhere he’s tried to implement it. This is why he never says “we have arrived, now judge us” - there is always the caveat to not judge now but always in the future. That’s because he has very little belief that what he is doing can garner success, he just knows it will get him noticed for those that look at stats and he can try to climb the ladder that way.
But I don’t believe he has any in depth tactical knowledge of the game, let alone regarding his own tactics. I don’t remember a single interview where he has discussed football or his tactics in any sort of depth and displayed genuine knowledge, he seems like a former player with a skin deep knowledge of the inner workings of the game who is passing off a style without really understanding it.
He doesn’t appear to want it questioned because he cannot discuss the pros and cons of it. In his mind if we have more possession then it’s working and that’s all there is to it.
“There are none as blind as those who will not see”. |  |
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| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 12:57 - Jul 19 with 470 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City Under 21’s report v Stevenage + Teams on 08:24 - Jul 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes calling it live is the true acid test AC. Last term it was uncanny the amount of times it was clearly stated how we are going to concede or what we needed to expose in the opposition in order to take advantage. Martin was consistently 2 steps behind, often leaving it until it was too late.
What usually happens then, is people try to change what happened, what was obvious and what was changed. So documenting it as it happens is always pretty rewarding as a counter to those revisions that happen in the days following.
When we couldn’t score for toffee, it was noted that our play is too slow and too short meaning the opposition aren’t afraid to over press us knowing we won’t go long and expose the spaces they leave behind and they also have heaps of time to get back into position because we won’t move it quickly. After weeks and months of this criticism, finally we started to score some and just by magic they all seemed to come from longer balls and quick direct moves utilising the pace of Oba.
For all Martin’s talk about philosophy, he has absolutely no clue how to play it intelligently. I’m not saying he was reading and listening to posters on here of course before any of the trolls pipe up with their usual guff, it’s just telling that what is obvious to many immediately, takes him weeks and months to realise it.
For me, that’s simply because he is wedded to it. It’s the only way he knows how to play despite it never being successful anywhere he’s tried to implement it. This is why he never says “we have arrived, now judge us” - there is always the caveat to not judge now but always in the future. That’s because he has very little belief that what he is doing can garner success, he just knows it will get him noticed for those that look at stats and he can try to climb the ladder that way.
But I don’t believe he has any in depth tactical knowledge of the game, let alone regarding his own tactics. I don’t remember a single interview where he has discussed football or his tactics in any sort of depth and displayed genuine knowledge, he seems like a former player with a skin deep knowledge of the inner workings of the game who is passing off a style without really understanding it.
He doesn’t appear to want it questioned because he cannot discuss the pros and cons of it. In his mind if we have more possession then it’s working and that’s all there is to it.
“There are none as blind as those who will not see”. |
I have said it a few times...Martin is an idealist ....outside of football too...not that that is a bad thing.
What that means is though they are often hard to move form that ideal even when they know it is wrong.
We have a new season I wait with hope that Martin has learnt form last season and we see success in this...time will tell | |
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