| Parole 10:15 - Nov 14 with 2265 views | onehunglow |
A subject worthy of debate ?
What ya think |  |
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| Parole on 18:59 - Nov 16 with 887 views | STID2017 |
| Parole on 18:26 - Nov 14 by onehunglow |
With respect,you over elaborate .
I trust my opinion is one you understand if not respect
I ll say it more clearly
It is morally reprehensible that the likes of Peter Tobin draws breath whilst the innocent victims do not .
If you had a daughter,raped,butchered and thrown into a pit,you would think differently .
Nobody s daughter should be at risk at early release of anyone .
This is a moment for you to think outside the Legal World you earn your living at.
People want to feel safe . They are not.
I personally know barristers who pleaded mitigation/leniency for a child killer.
What a job . You really are special . |
It is ( I understand as a layman ) the barrister / lawyer's job to represent their client ?
It is also I understand part of the statute of law that everyone is entitled to fair and impartial representation?
So stands to reason that ( no matter what their personal beliefs) the barrister etc has to plead the best case he can for his or her client.
Seems obvious to me that if someone is convicted or pleads guilty then the best their represtative can try for is leniency / mitigation etc.
Also I would imagine no two cases are the same and likewise no two convicted persons are the same.
If a person is an evil killer who shows no remorse then maybe life should mean life.
However if a killer acted in a moment of anger / terror / madness then if they show remorse then they may have a case for parole ( depending on the circumstances of the case ) |  |
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| Parole on 20:10 - Nov 16 with 858 views | onehunglow |
Today,at Preston Crown Court,a man was found guilty of murdering a young women.
He hit her 19 times with an axe.
He claimed he threw it at a tree and missed catching her by accident .
He changed his plea today and is sentenced tomorrow
Would parole be appropriate and he released on licence
That is the argument I have presented ,badly, it would seem ,as it seems to have gone off at a tangent . | |
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| Parole on 20:29 - Nov 16 with 849 views | STID2017 |
| Parole on 20:10 - Nov 16 by onehunglow |
Today,at Preston Crown Court,a man was found guilty of murdering a young women.
He hit her 19 times with an axe.
He claimed he threw it at a tree and missed catching her by accident .
He changed his plea today and is sentenced tomorrow
Would parole be appropriate and he released on licence
That is the argument I have presented ,badly, it would seem ,as it seems to have gone off at a tangent . |
As a layman I would say he should be locked up at Broadmoor or similar for life.
Can't think there would be any mitigation for his actions ?
Each case on it's merit though ? | |
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| Parole on 21:49 - Nov 16 with 828 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 20:10 - Nov 16 by onehunglow |
Today,at Preston Crown Court,a man was found guilty of murdering a young women.
He hit her 19 times with an axe.
He claimed he threw it at a tree and missed catching her by accident .
He changed his plea today and is sentenced tomorrow
Would parole be appropriate and he released on licence
That is the argument I have presented ,badly, it would seem ,as it seems to have gone off at a tangent . |
I know very little about the case but in matters like this, he’s likely to get a minimum term sentence before he can even be considered for parole which will be measured in the decades. Say eg in 30 years time. That does mean he’d be released, but it may possibly be considered. They happen once a year.
This is an example of a similar type of case as an estimate of what he may get
https://www.theguardian.com/uk |  | | |
| Parole on 05:20 - Nov 17 with 804 views | angryjack |
The law is an ass,only yesterday I was convicted to 14 weeks in prison suspended for 18 months,plus a tag for 12 weeks plus a 300 pound fine plus a year's probation service,for self defence when a neighbour ran at me with a baseball bat,I took him to floor disarmed him..give him few punches,he got up to come at me again I punched him fown again his misses jumped on my back while this was going on..he tried get up again so I stamped on him..
He only had a 12 month probation for coming at me with bat and I get all that..magistrate said I would be in prison if it wasn't for fact he came at me with bat,so give me suspended instead,but then just gives him 13 month probation..the system from top to bottom is an ass | | | |
| Parole on 06:16 - Nov 17 with 783 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 05:20 - Nov 17 by angryjack |
The law is an ass,only yesterday I was convicted to 14 weeks in prison suspended for 18 months,plus a tag for 12 weeks plus a 300 pound fine plus a year's probation service,for self defence when a neighbour ran at me with a baseball bat,I took him to floor disarmed him..give him few punches,he got up to come at me again I punched him fown again his misses jumped on my back while this was going on..he tried get up again so I stamped on him..
He only had a 12 month probation for coming at me with bat and I get all that..magistrate said I would be in prison if it wasn't for fact he came at me with bat,so give me suspended instead,but then just gives him 13 month probation..the system from top to bottom is an ass |
Did you plead guilty nor were you convicted after trial ?
If you pleaded or the sparse info you’ve given, that seems about right, due to the stamp.
If you ran a trial, I assume you ran self defence, and if what you’re saying is correct, does seem like a runnable self defence case (stamp may be a problem)
Did your solicitor advise you re the automatic right of appeal to the Crown Court ? You run the risk, if it goes wrong of an Immediate sentence though.
I always advise people if they can, not to have a trial in the magistrates court. Far better chance of success in front of a jury. | | | |
| Parole on 09:30 - Nov 17 with 747 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 21:49 - Nov 16 by Sirjohnalot |
I know very little about the case but in matters like this, he’s likely to get a minimum term sentence before he can even be considered for parole which will be measured in the decades. Say eg in 30 years time. That does mean he’d be released, but it may possibly be considered. They happen once a year.
This is an example of a similar type of case as an estimate of what he may get
https://www.theguardian.com/uk |
Thanks for your reply John.
I am of the opinion that anyone who strikes anyone with an axe 19 times should never see the light of day again. As we cant commit to capital deterrent then a life in prison ,sadly,is the only alternative with no parole.
Even a cursory glance at the evidence released in this case compels one to conclude the public should never be at risk from an individual who tricks a female into believing she is going to a picnic only to be chopped up with axe,which he said he threw at a tree but it missed and hit her. 19 times.
Makes one wonder about that defence and what it must have been like presenting it. | |
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| Parole on 09:37 - Nov 17 with 736 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 09:30 - Nov 17 by onehunglow |
Thanks for your reply John.
I am of the opinion that anyone who strikes anyone with an axe 19 times should never see the light of day again. As we cant commit to capital deterrent then a life in prison ,sadly,is the only alternative with no parole.
Even a cursory glance at the evidence released in this case compels one to conclude the public should never be at risk from an individual who tricks a female into believing she is going to a picnic only to be chopped up with axe,which he said he threw at a tree but it missed and hit her. 19 times.
Makes one wonder about that defence and what it must have been like presenting it. |
Personal opinion ? Completely agree with you, course they should never be released. To do something like this, something is broken inside, which is very unlikely ever to be fixed. Capital punishment can never and will never return. Risk of executing an innocent person is always there. That is a mistake which cannot be overcome. if 1 innocent person were to be executed, how do you come back from that ?
Legal opinion, its has to be right that, say in 35 years time, consideration needs to be given as to whether this person has changed and whether they remain a threat to society.
It's horrible presenting a defence like that but he ended up pleading guilty, after the expert gave evidence. The reason he pleaded guilty was on the advice of his defence barrister. It's not all about getting people, it is advising on the evidence, which is what happened here. Without a defence barrister, he would have kept on with the trial.
I've defended and prosecuted when I've been on the wrong side, but no one ever asks about prosecuting a case where you don't feel comfortable | | | |
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| Parole on 09:41 - Nov 17 with 735 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 09:37 - Nov 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Personal opinion ? Completely agree with you, course they should never be released. To do something like this, something is broken inside, which is very unlikely ever to be fixed. Capital punishment can never and will never return. Risk of executing an innocent person is always there. That is a mistake which cannot be overcome. if 1 innocent person were to be executed, how do you come back from that ?
Legal opinion, its has to be right that, say in 35 years time, consideration needs to be given as to whether this person has changed and whether they remain a threat to society.
It's horrible presenting a defence like that but he ended up pleading guilty, after the expert gave evidence. The reason he pleaded guilty was on the advice of his defence barrister. It's not all about getting people, it is advising on the evidence, which is what happened here. Without a defence barrister, he would have kept on with the trial.
I've defended and prosecuted when I've been on the wrong side, but no one ever asks about prosecuting a case where you don't feel comfortable |
Interesting.
It’s why I comment about the Job itself.
I do nit in any way aim my comments at you personally.
Understand that well,John.
Now,enjoy your day | |
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| Parole on 11:15 - Nov 17 with 715 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 21:49 - Nov 16 by Sirjohnalot |
I know very little about the case but in matters like this, he’s likely to get a minimum term sentence before he can even be considered for parole which will be measured in the decades. Say eg in 30 years time. That does mean he’d be released, but it may possibly be considered. They happen once a year.
This is an example of a similar type of case as an estimate of what he may get
https://www.theguardian.com/uk |
He got a minimum of 32 years, before parole can even be considered. He is 51, so he will be 82 before his case can even be looked at.
Q they will have then, is 'does an 82 year old man pose a risk of physical harm to the public' Answer is very likely to be no.
No risk, 31 year sentence, q would be, if he is an old, no longer a risk, should he remain inside at tax payers' expesne | | | |
| Parole on 11:40 - Nov 17 with 708 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 11:15 - Nov 17 by Sirjohnalot |
He got a minimum of 32 years, before parole can even be considered. He is 51, so he will be 82 before his case can even be looked at.
Q they will have then, is 'does an 82 year old man pose a risk of physical harm to the public' Answer is very likely to be no.
No risk, 31 year sentence, q would be, if he is an old, no longer a risk, should he remain inside at tax payers' expesne |
Yes
It is about justice and cost should not be a factor . He really should not be drawing breath
He will have a life , regardless of where he is .His victim has no life , her parents lives ended too , as they knew it
Consider this.
As a relatively young man,you fail to grasp that old were people can be dangerous . Age is relative . My own father at 82 was very very spiky and in no way inoffensive,impotent or incapable . Scum like this fella will come out full of hate,indignation, contempt even and will still present a risk and risk is what it is all about.
No risk when in prison .
Anyway, thanks for the reply I believe I might have expressed myself better [Post edited 17 Nov 2022 11:50]
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| Parole on 12:22 - Nov 17 with 698 views | angryjack |
| Parole on 06:16 - Nov 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Did you plead guilty nor were you convicted after trial ?
If you pleaded or the sparse info you’ve given, that seems about right, due to the stamp.
If you ran a trial, I assume you ran self defence, and if what you’re saying is correct, does seem like a runnable self defence case (stamp may be a problem)
Did your solicitor advise you re the automatic right of appeal to the Crown Court ? You run the risk, if it goes wrong of an Immediate sentence though.
I always advise people if they can, not to have a trial in the magistrates court. Far better chance of success in front of a jury. |
Advised plead guilty as I stamped on him but he came at me with bat,his partner jumped on my back while I took him to floor,he kept getting up so I know it was wrong I stamped on his chest and he went hospital later on..but I was in fear if he got up he use bat again ..told pre sentence report this but magistrate made out I was the violent one when i wasn't he started it and it all on video..I had 14 week prison suspended 18 months 12 week tag plus 300 fine in shivh 150 victim surcharge znd 12 month probation order..all he had was 12 month probation order when he swung bat at my head..albeit a different magistrate gave his sentence but how can 2 magistrates be so far apart | | | |
| Parole on 13:22 - Nov 17 with 682 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 12:22 - Nov 17 by angryjack |
Advised plead guilty as I stamped on him but he came at me with bat,his partner jumped on my back while I took him to floor,he kept getting up so I know it was wrong I stamped on his chest and he went hospital later on..but I was in fear if he got up he use bat again ..told pre sentence report this but magistrate made out I was the violent one when i wasn't he started it and it all on video..I had 14 week prison suspended 18 months 12 week tag plus 300 fine in shivh 150 victim surcharge znd 12 month probation order..all he had was 12 month probation order when he swung bat at my head..albeit a different magistrate gave his sentence but how can 2 magistrates be so far apart |
Depends on a number of factors.
Previous convictions
What you and he were charged with
Stage at which pleas were entered
Whether the bat was part of the allegation against him
Seems Odd that you were not charged and dealt with together. Ultimately just because one person may have for a lenient sentence doesn’t mean the other persons sentence wasn’t correct. Magistrates remember are not legally qualified, just members of the public.
Hope that helps a bit ? | | | |
| Parole on 14:21 - Nov 17 with 669 views | controversial_jack |
Magistrates are the weak link in our Justice system.
I wouldn't have thought pleading guilty when it's self defense is very wise | | | |
| Parole on 14:54 - Nov 17 with 664 views | Jack123 |
| Parole on 12:22 - Nov 17 by angryjack |
Advised plead guilty as I stamped on him but he came at me with bat,his partner jumped on my back while I took him to floor,he kept getting up so I know it was wrong I stamped on his chest and he went hospital later on..but I was in fear if he got up he use bat again ..told pre sentence report this but magistrate made out I was the violent one when i wasn't he started it and it all on video..I had 14 week prison suspended 18 months 12 week tag plus 300 fine in shivh 150 victim surcharge znd 12 month probation order..all he had was 12 month probation order when he swung bat at my head..albeit a different magistrate gave his sentence but how can 2 magistrates be so far apart |
That sentence seems really harsh you received, I don't know you, or your neighbour, but it does say a lot about the person if they even possess a baseball bat, let alone bring it out to threaten.
I would have thought, when someone has a weapon you are well within your rights to incapacitate the other person. |  |
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| Parole on 19:58 - Nov 17 with 647 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 14:54 - Nov 17 by Jack123 |
That sentence seems really harsh you received, I don't know you, or your neighbour, but it does say a lot about the person if they even possess a baseball bat, let alone bring it out to threaten.
I would have thought, when someone has a weapon you are well within your rights to incapacitate the other person. |
I agree with that
If attacked ,for me, the most force possible. It’s better to be in court than be in the dust bowl in the sky
We have it totally wrong here and Police have no latitude now. | |
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| Parole on 20:02 - Nov 17 with 641 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 14:54 - Nov 17 by Jack123 |
That sentence seems really harsh you received, I don't know you, or your neighbour, but it does say a lot about the person if they even possess a baseball bat, let alone bring it out to threaten.
I would have thought, when someone has a weapon you are well within your rights to incapacitate the other person. |
You are, but can only do what’s reasonable. You can’t eg, kick the living daylights into someone on the floor. Stamp on their head eg, | | | |
| Parole on 20:16 - Nov 17 with 632 views | onehunglow |
| Parole on 20:02 - Nov 17 by Sirjohnalot |
You are, but can only do what’s reasonable. You can’t eg, kick the living daylights into someone on the floor. Stamp on their head eg, |
I do believe self defence aspect has altered since I left the service .
It’s ratherpitiful one would have to prove force used to protect was not excessive .
If woken in the night by an intruder in your bedroom,things are rather opaque yet at court months later all is clear ,apparently .
I am Closing in on 73 yrs of age and a modest 1.80 and 86 kilos but ,if attacked in my own home and th@ includes the family dog or wife then I am well prepared and they will be hurt significantly if I get the chance . In confrontational burglaries , it is all about being alert enough and wits enough to avoid damage to self or property.
If proven excessive,I could
I’ve with that as. Long as my loved ones are safe. Nothing else matters.
It’s why anyone invading a home should expect lethal force if called for.
We were confronted once ,when we were just married over a dog we had at the time. Fella knocked on our door ,wife answered. He grabbed here .She screamed . I was upstairs and heard here. I came down the stairs and hit him with a boot which was at th3 bottom of the stairs . This broke his nose and gave me the time to bend him over the Storage Heater ,which was heavy .
Went to court and he got bound over but Complaints and Discipline were at the Mags Court watching . | |
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| Parole on 20:35 - Nov 17 with 617 views | Jack123 |
| Parole on 20:02 - Nov 17 by Sirjohnalot |
You are, but can only do what’s reasonable. You can’t eg, kick the living daylights into someone on the floor. Stamp on their head eg, |
Of course. I agree.
But it would be interesting to know, were there any injuries sustained by the person angryjack was accused of assaulting . I took it, when he said stamped on him, he stamped on his chest. to keep him down?
Still, not knocking angry for doing it, when under threat, who knows what I would do, maybe a lot worse.? I hope not. | |
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| Parole on 20:37 - Nov 17 with 618 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 20:16 - Nov 17 by onehunglow |
I do believe self defence aspect has altered since I left the service .
It’s ratherpitiful one would have to prove force used to protect was not excessive .
If woken in the night by an intruder in your bedroom,things are rather opaque yet at court months later all is clear ,apparently .
I am Closing in on 73 yrs of age and a modest 1.80 and 86 kilos but ,if attacked in my own home and th@ includes the family dog or wife then I am well prepared and they will be hurt significantly if I get the chance . In confrontational burglaries , it is all about being alert enough and wits enough to avoid damage to self or property.
If proven excessive,I could
I’ve with that as. Long as my loved ones are safe. Nothing else matters.
It’s why anyone invading a home should expect lethal force if called for.
We were confronted once ,when we were just married over a dog we had at the time. Fella knocked on our door ,wife answered. He grabbed here .She screamed . I was upstairs and heard here. I came down the stairs and hit him with a boot which was at th3 bottom of the stairs . This broke his nose and gave me the time to bend him over the Storage Heater ,which was heavy .
Went to court and he got bound over but Complaints and Discipline were at the Mags Court watching . |
Home self defence is different to self defence. Essentially it has to be grossly disproportionate to be deemed unlawful. Law allows for that exact scenario, you are able to use disproportionate force against intruders in your house, eg when you wake up at night, key words are ‘grossly disproportionate.’. Law completely allows for seeing someone in your house at 3 in the morning and throwing him down the stairs. Person can’t be expected to think rationally then.
Normal defence is two fold.
What was going through your mind at the time, in the situation you, at that point, perceived it did you think it was reasonable
If so
Would the reasonable person think that was reasonable.
Once you raise it only on a balance or probabilities, prosecution have to disprove it.
As a householder, you’re pretty likely not to be charged,, unless eg, like that chap who shot the burglar running away from his house, | | | |
| Parole on 21:41 - Nov 17 with 596 views | Catullus |
| Parole on 11:40 - Nov 17 by onehunglow |
Yes
It is about justice and cost should not be a factor . He really should not be drawing breath
He will have a life , regardless of where he is .His victim has no life , her parents lives ended too , as they knew it
Consider this.
As a relatively young man,you fail to grasp that old were people can be dangerous . Age is relative . My own father at 82 was very very spiky and in no way inoffensive,impotent or incapable . Scum like this fella will come out full of hate,indignation, contempt even and will still present a risk and risk is what it is all about.
No risk when in prison .
Anyway, thanks for the reply I believe I might have expressed myself better [Post edited 17 Nov 2022 11:50]
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OHL, the law is an ass, the changes politicians have made changes these last 30 years that have made it so. The lawyers/legal porfessionals working in it though can only do what they can do, they have to work within the rules.
Do you blame the ref for stupid rule changes imposed by FIFA?
When I changed jobs I had to do more training, today I did an asbestos awareness course, not because it was particularly relevant to my job, there's not much change I'll come across any but the rulebook says I had to do it.
We all have to follow the rules of our jobs. The legal rulebook says even the worst scumbag should get the best defence possible, the idea being that if even after the best defence you are found guilty then you are most likely 100% guilty, we know it doesn't entirely work that way but the principle is there to be followed, we cannt blame the legal profession for the rulebook. Blame the government. | |
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| Parole on 06:22 - Nov 18 with 577 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Parole on 21:41 - Nov 17 by Catullus |
OHL, the law is an ass, the changes politicians have made changes these last 30 years that have made it so. The lawyers/legal porfessionals working in it though can only do what they can do, they have to work within the rules.
Do you blame the ref for stupid rule changes imposed by FIFA?
When I changed jobs I had to do more training, today I did an asbestos awareness course, not because it was particularly relevant to my job, there's not much change I'll come across any but the rulebook says I had to do it.
We all have to follow the rules of our jobs. The legal rulebook says even the worst scumbag should get the best defence possible, the idea being that if even after the best defence you are found guilty then you are most likely 100% guilty, we know it doesn't entirely work that way but the principle is there to be followed, we cannt blame the legal profession for the rulebook. Blame the government. |
It’s the least worst system out there.
Reason we were on strike is that it’s falling apart, more junior end are leaving in droves, for better pay elsewhere. I voted against ending the strike as, even though the deal is good for someone at my seniority dealing more serious and longer cases, the young people , couple of years in, with shorter cases, bail apps, mentions, etc are being screwed over. As we don’t get paid for travel, hotels etc, a lot of them especially in London are actually making a loss to get to court and do their cases.
Yesterday, a sex case I’m prosecuting, with a young complainant was in for trial, no court room, or judge available, was adjourned for the second time to feb 2024 ! Case is already 3 years old. | | | |
| Parole on 08:18 - Nov 18 with 545 views | angryjack |
| Parole on 20:35 - Nov 17 by Jack123 |
Of course. I agree.
But it would be interesting to know, were there any injuries sustained by the person angryjack was accused of assaulting . I took it, when he said stamped on him, he stamped on his chest. to keep him down?
Still, not knocking angry for doing it, when under threat, who knows what I would do, maybe a lot worse.? I hope not. |
He went hospital for xrays on chest ..bruising... | | | |
| Parole on 11:04 - Nov 18 with 518 views | Jack123 |
| Parole on 08:18 - Nov 18 by angryjack |
He went hospital for xrays on chest ..bruising... |
Disgusting.. so no real injuries, just went to hospital to tick a few boxes.
To be walking around with a tag for defending yourself, is an absolute travesty.
The magistrate must have had a screw loose, in the real world if you asked 100 people how they got off, after attacking someone with a baseball bat, and they said they ended up with a bruised chest, I think most people would say you got off lightly. | |
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