| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? 14:51 - Jan 29 with 3494 views | KeithHaynes |
Tells a story this one.
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 20:04 - Jan 29 with 1024 views | Luther27 |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 19:52 - Jan 29 by cadleigh |
Yes, but have you worked for managers who told everyone at the firm that they thought your performance was poor or your attitude sucked? And then told their families? That's what Martin did to Obafemi, not long after he did the same to Piroe, roughly at the same time he commented at length in the media on Rhys Williams' mental health and shortly before he told the media that Paterson didn't really have a clue what was going on with his own contract negotiations. ( https://www.irishmirror.ie/spo
In some of these cases Martin's actions resulted in a short-term improvement in performance, but in the long term all of the players concerned have wanted out. Which is exactly what most people would do under the circumstances - work their arses off to make themselves as attractive as possible to other employers so you can get the hell away.
Doesn't mean that Obafemi isn't also responsible. I guess we'll find out pretty quickly when he goes to Burnley whether he's capable of sustained performance and mustering the right attitude and workrate.
But I can't remember a previous Swansea manager using the press the way Martin has done, let alone repeatedly. If you have issues with a player, sort them out behind closed doors for heavens sake. |
You alluded to it yourself. If you’re not flavour of the month then work your arse off and put yourself in the shop window. Obafembi, Patterson and Whittaker have done the total opposite of that. RM? as far as I’m concerned he can do one as well. Perhaps if he’d gone on strike we might be better off, but then we’ll never know. |  | | |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 20:35 - Jan 29 with 965 views | Dr_Winston |
I do wonder if all of the people castigating the players involved for being less interested in playing (and let's be honest, the only source we have to suggest that anyone has refused to play is RM, hardly a paragon of honesty) have never had a shitty boss themselves and not exactly thrown themselves into the task at hand. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 20:59 - Jan 29 with 930 views | Luther27 |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 20:35 - Jan 29 by Dr_Winston |
I do wonder if all of the people castigating the players involved for being less interested in playing (and let's be honest, the only source we have to suggest that anyone has refused to play is RM, hardly a paragon of honesty) have never had a shitty boss themselves and not exactly thrown themselves into the task at hand. |
My source of information is this site. Consensus opinion on here points to the players in question threw their toys out of the pram. If that’s the case I don’t want that type at the club no matter what.
As for shifty bosses….I can honestly say I never went on strike because of them. I did however try my very best to prove them wrong. | | | |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 21:01 - Jan 29 with 925 views | cadleigh |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 20:04 - Jan 29 by Luther27 |
You alluded to it yourself. If you’re not flavour of the month then work your arse off and put yourself in the shop window. Obafembi, Patterson and Whittaker have done the total opposite of that. RM? as far as I’m concerned he can do one as well. Perhaps if he’d gone on strike we might be better off, but then we’ll never know. |
Isn't that precisely what Obafemi did? Eleven goals in 25 matches after Martin shamed him in the media, Burnley got the 'come and get me' message and tried three times to land him, and when it didn't happen Obafemi took his ball away until they came back for him. The fact that they did tells me that they know that he is perfectly capable of turning it back on when he wants to. Time will tell. | |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 21:05 - Jan 29 with 904 views | KeithHaynes |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 20:35 - Jan 29 by Dr_Winston |
I do wonder if all of the people castigating the players involved for being less interested in playing (and let's be honest, the only source we have to suggest that anyone has refused to play is RM, hardly a paragon of honesty) have never had a shitty boss themselves and not exactly thrown themselves into the task at hand. |
Would be interested to know when he has lied, if that’s what you are implying of course. | |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 21:13 - Jan 29 with 897 views | Dr_Winston |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 21:05 - Jan 29 by KeithHaynes |
Would be interested to know when he has lied, if that’s what you are implying of course. |
He lies every time he tries to blame the players for poor results that are mostly down to his own management. Being charitable perhaps he's just a bit thick and lies unknowingly.
We know the type. We've had one as manager before. Ginger fella. Propensity for falling out with people and blaming anyone other than himself. Can't get a job now. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 21:14 - Jan 29 with 894 views | dobjack2 |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 20:35 - Jan 29 by Dr_Winston |
I do wonder if all of the people castigating the players involved for being less interested in playing (and let's be honest, the only source we have to suggest that anyone has refused to play is RM, hardly a paragon of honesty) have never had a shitty boss themselves and not exactly thrown themselves into the task at hand. |
My understanding is that;
Pato had a strop after the contract extension on the same terms was announced.
Obafemi had a strop after the club refused the offer from Burnley
Do you disagree with that?
I assume we undertook due diligence before we signed them, but Martin is not head of recruitment.
Do I think Martin is the best manager in the history of the world - no. He is a rookie, making mistakes. His reluctance to go to a back 4 when all the evidence suggested that was needed was a massive mistake in my opinion. He says things to the press that should stay in the dressing room.
However that does not make him responsible for players having strops over our contract/transfer negotiations.
Take a step back and assign fault where it should be, not where you would like it to be. | | | |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 21:26 - Jan 29 with 845 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 21:14 - Jan 29 by dobjack2 |
My understanding is that;
Pato had a strop after the contract extension on the same terms was announced.
Obafemi had a strop after the club refused the offer from Burnley
Do you disagree with that?
I assume we undertook due diligence before we signed them, but Martin is not head of recruitment.
Do I think Martin is the best manager in the history of the world - no. He is a rookie, making mistakes. His reluctance to go to a back 4 when all the evidence suggested that was needed was a massive mistake in my opinion. He says things to the press that should stay in the dressing room.
However that does not make him responsible for players having strops over our contract/transfer negotiations.
Take a step back and assign fault where it should be, not where you would like it to be. |
Patos contract issues was a year ago.
It’s strange people are putting his current situation down to that. |  |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 22:49 - Jan 29 with 796 views | Fireboy2 |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 21:14 - Jan 29 by dobjack2 |
My understanding is that;
Pato had a strop after the contract extension on the same terms was announced.
Obafemi had a strop after the club refused the offer from Burnley
Do you disagree with that?
I assume we undertook due diligence before we signed them, but Martin is not head of recruitment.
Do I think Martin is the best manager in the history of the world - no. He is a rookie, making mistakes. His reluctance to go to a back 4 when all the evidence suggested that was needed was a massive mistake in my opinion. He says things to the press that should stay in the dressing room.
However that does not make him responsible for players having strops over our contract/transfer negotiations.
Take a step back and assign fault where it should be, not where you would like it to be. |
Brilliant post ðŸ‘
Saved me the job 👠|  | | |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:00 - Jan 29 with 778 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 22:49 - Jan 29 by Fireboy2 |
Brilliant post ðŸ‘
Saved me the job 👠|
Agree, think he got it spot on. |  | | |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:05 - Jan 29 with 762 views | Fireboy2 |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:00 - Jan 29 by Sirjohnalot |
Agree, think he got it spot on. |
It's lucky the vast % don't agree with conspiracy theories re these two bellends. | | | |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:15 - Jan 29 with 751 views | STID2017 |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 20:35 - Jan 29 by Dr_Winston |
I do wonder if all of the people castigating the players involved for being less interested in playing (and let's be honest, the only source we have to suggest that anyone has refused to play is RM, hardly a paragon of honesty) have never had a shitty boss themselves and not exactly thrown themselves into the task at hand. |
Two points.
First, yes I have ( and I suppose like many ) had bosses I didn't agree with.
However I never downed tools or slackened off.
The main reason being that in ordinary jobs the likelihood is you would get fired.
Second the reliable information tends to come from those responsible for this site.
Anything else that we read on here tends to be speculation, reports from unreliable sources purportedly within the club ( but to be taken with a large pinch of salt and thrown out by the cleaners )
To accuse Martin of being dishonest is a bit harsh and a slur on his character surely ? |  |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:18 - Jan 29 with 747 views | cadleigh |
Paterson had a strop, got gaslighted by Martin in the media, came back, had another strop, repeat ad nauseum.
Obafemi got the Martin media treatment, obviously wanted out from that point onwards, threw a strip when he wasn’t allowed to go.
So the two are similar but not identical. There is a common factor though - apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players involved. | |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:21 - Jan 29 with 739 views | Dr_Winston |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:15 - Jan 29 by STID2017 |
Two points.
First, yes I have ( and I suppose like many ) had bosses I didn't agree with.
However I never downed tools or slackened off.
The main reason being that in ordinary jobs the likelihood is you would get fired.
Second the reliable information tends to come from those responsible for this site.
Anything else that we read on here tends to be speculation, reports from unreliable sources purportedly within the club ( but to be taken with a large pinch of salt and thrown out by the cleaners )
To accuse Martin of being dishonest is a bit harsh and a slur on his character surely ? |
Everything we read everywhere is speculation. Unless you're in direct contact with those involved that's all it can ever be. I've heard things that directly contradict what is reported, but it is what it is.
I don't doubt that what is reported here is done so in good faith. I just believe that everything should be questioned, especially given the contradictory nature of what comes out sometimes.
As for Russy's righteousness, I think it's fairly obvious by this point that he's, let's say "overly keen" to muddy the waters when it comes to identifying reasons for defeat. If he's not capable of being forthright in that situation then everything else becomes automatically questionable. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 02:32 - Jan 30 with 669 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:18 - Jan 29 by cadleigh |
Paterson had a strop, got gaslighted by Martin in the media, came back, had another strop, repeat ad nauseum.
Obafemi got the Martin media treatment, obviously wanted out from that point onwards, threw a strip when he wasn’t allowed to go.
So the two are similar but not identical. There is a common factor though - apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players involved. |
Brilliant post.
Saved me the job. | |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 07:56 - Jan 30 with 630 views | magicdaps10 |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:21 - Jan 29 by Dr_Winston |
Everything we read everywhere is speculation. Unless you're in direct contact with those involved that's all it can ever be. I've heard things that directly contradict what is reported, but it is what it is.
I don't doubt that what is reported here is done so in good faith. I just believe that everything should be questioned, especially given the contradictory nature of what comes out sometimes.
As for Russy's righteousness, I think it's fairly obvious by this point that he's, let's say "overly keen" to muddy the waters when it comes to identifying reasons for defeat. If he's not capable of being forthright in that situation then everything else becomes automatically questionable. |
The reason people here contradictions is because they only hear one side of a story and it tends to not come directly from that person who said it in the first place......always atleast another side to a story and also people quite often never say the truth to make themselves look better or even the victim.
Take for example cadleighs post above
"So the two are similar but not identical. There is a common factor though - apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players involved."
There is a common factor here he states......a being the key word! He then states, apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players!!!!!!!
So he states a common factor, he then tells us the common factor but then basically says but its not that.........people won't have the intelligence to see that because someone has stated but pushed it to one side and tried highlighting something else.
I mean no offence to Cadleighs but its crazy how people think or want to think or even see things to suit. |  |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 07:58 - Jan 30 with 623 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 07:56 - Jan 30 by magicdaps10 |
The reason people here contradictions is because they only hear one side of a story and it tends to not come directly from that person who said it in the first place......always atleast another side to a story and also people quite often never say the truth to make themselves look better or even the victim.
Take for example cadleighs post above
"So the two are similar but not identical. There is a common factor though - apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players involved."
There is a common factor here he states......a being the key word! He then states, apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players!!!!!!!
So he states a common factor, he then tells us the common factor but then basically says but its not that.........people won't have the intelligence to see that because someone has stated but pushed it to one side and tried highlighting something else.
I mean no offence to Cadleighs but its crazy how people think or want to think or even see things to suit. |
No, he states there is a common factor aside from players attitudes. Read what he said properly instead of creating your own narrative.
The other common denominator is Russell Martin. He is blaming all, using both sides of the story as you suggest.
Where as you are omitting the Russell Martin correlation and focusing on just one side of the story, the opposite of what you are telling others to do.
……….
Man jumps onto prison cell with a violent criminal, a criminal who is notoriously badly behaved and aggressive, and starts mistreating him. The criminal then beats him to death.
Your types view: the inmate was aggressive and has a history of that kind of behaviour, poor guy. Inmates fault.
Sensible view: the inmate was aggressive yes, also does have a history of violence - but it was preventable and if he didn’t mistreat him then it probably wouldn’t have provoked that response: both to blame.
One looks at it from the reality of the situation from both sides, the other just views it through the convenient narrative. [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 8:28]
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 08:46 - Jan 30 with 582 views | Superjan |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 07:58 - Jan 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
No, he states there is a common factor aside from players attitudes. Read what he said properly instead of creating your own narrative.
The other common denominator is Russell Martin. He is blaming all, using both sides of the story as you suggest.
Where as you are omitting the Russell Martin correlation and focusing on just one side of the story, the opposite of what you are telling others to do.
……….
Man jumps onto prison cell with a violent criminal, a criminal who is notoriously badly behaved and aggressive, and starts mistreating him. The criminal then beats him to death.
Your types view: the inmate was aggressive and has a history of that kind of behaviour, poor guy. Inmates fault.
Sensible view: the inmate was aggressive yes, also does have a history of violence - but it was preventable and if he didn’t mistreat him then it probably wouldn’t have provoked that response: both to blame.
One looks at it from the reality of the situation from both sides, the other just views it through the convenient narrative. [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 8:28]
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You’ve just taught me two valuable lessons. Firstly don’t go into a prison cell with a violent prisoner but if you do , be nice to him . This advice will be of great assistance in my line of work….. | | | |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 08:48 - Jan 30 with 578 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 08:46 - Jan 30 by Superjan |
You’ve just taught me two valuable lessons. Firstly don’t go into a prison cell with a violent prisoner but if you do , be nice to him . This advice will be of great assistance in my line of work….. |
I aim to please  | |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 10:27 - Jan 30 with 508 views | onehunglow |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 23:18 - Jan 29 by cadleigh |
Paterson had a strop, got gaslighted by Martin in the media, came back, had another strop, repeat ad nauseum.
Obafemi got the Martin media treatment, obviously wanted out from that point onwards, threw a strip when he wasn’t allowed to go.
So the two are similar but not identical. There is a common factor though - apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players involved. |
Leaves me feeling humble.
Absolutely spot on. | |
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 10:57 - Jan 30 with 496 views | cadleigh |
| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 07:56 - Jan 30 by magicdaps10 |
The reason people here contradictions is because they only hear one side of a story and it tends to not come directly from that person who said it in the first place......always atleast another side to a story and also people quite often never say the truth to make themselves look better or even the victim.
Take for example cadleighs post above
"So the two are similar but not identical. There is a common factor though - apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players involved."
There is a common factor here he states......a being the key word! He then states, apart from the potential immaturity/selfishness of the players!!!!!!!
So he states a common factor, he then tells us the common factor but then basically says but its not that.........people won't have the intelligence to see that because someone has stated but pushed it to one side and tried highlighting something else.
I mean no offence to Cadleighs but its crazy how people think or want to think or even see things to suit. |
We are all prone to confirmation bias, amplifying the data that seems to support our preferred interpretation of events and downplaying or disregarding those that seem inconvenient.
In this case, I'm not trying to absolve the players of any responsibility in order to pin all the blame on Martin - far from it. I have made my low opinion of their actions very clear, I think. I am, though, suggesting that we look at whether venality is the only explanation for what's going on.
'Psychological contracts' (Argyris, 1960) are not easily broken. Other posters have mentioned Fulton as an example of someone who wasn’t "in Russell Martin’s plans" (Haynes, 2022), but he's not taken his ball away - far from it. But did he get the full Martin media treatment this time last year? Not that I recall.
There may be other factors at work as well as the individual personality of the players concerned and the way that their manager has treated them in the media. What the manager has said behind closed doors, for example, or what their agents have said or done. Happy to entertain any and all of them if there's evidence (as there is in Paterson's case for his agent, I think?).
But I do find it surprising that some supporters argue one minute that it's ridiculous to ascribe 100% of responsibility for poor performances to Martin alone (which I agree with), and then argue that if a player wants out then that must be 100% down to them and no blame falls on the manager whatsoever... [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 11:09]
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| Don’t clubs wish players all the best etc when they leave ? on 11:48 - Jan 30 with 458 views | KeithHaynes |
And only Sorinola and Walsh wishing him all the best on Twitter etc. | |
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