| Top half team 21:42 - Feb 15 with 4418 views | builthjack |
Sorinola MOM [Post edited 15 Feb 2023 21:42]
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| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Top half team on 19:04 - Feb 16 with 926 views | STID2017 |
| Top half team on 14:11 - Feb 16 by swan_si |
"They ate bottom too" I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and put that down as a typo.   |
I can vouch for him.
He don't know what he is saying half the time !  |  |
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| Top half team on 19:38 - Feb 16 with 896 views | grabsplatter |
Our game management was awful last night, quite how we managed to give their players so much space when we had a man advantage was baffling.
I was really disappointed with the lack of control from both Grimes & Joe in the closing stages. As experienced players they should have been organising & controlling, they did neither.
I expected better from Joe |  | | |
| Top half team on 19:45 - Feb 16 with 891 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Top half team on 10:04 - Feb 16 by jack247 |
Completely agree, but as I said earlier, it’s just too soon to judge.
Rangers must have seen something in him and he was one of the best players in league one. I wouldn’t be rushing to start him just yet though. |
I'd start him and persist with him, we need him up to speed for next season.
The thing is, I am hoping Martin is gone and we have a new manager next season, martin has no reason to work towards next season if he thinks he'll be gone in the summer. I reckon he'd be more inclined to keep going as he is and try, try, try to make it work to prove a point.
The fact tht after 18 months it seems to have gone backwards as well as downhill is lots on him.
He can be a genuinely nice bloke, he can care about the players but s long as the football is so bad, so slow, so boring, I don't care. Him and the owners are damaging the club.
I don't mind us being eternally mid table but I want to enjoy going. |  | | |
| Top half team on 20:06 - Feb 16 with 879 views | onehunglow |
| Top half team on 18:48 - Feb 16 by swancity |
Any win in the Championship is a valuable three points and that includes a home win against the bottom team.
We know full well that clubs at the bottom can beat the top sides in this league. There’s little to choose between say Blackburn and Blackpool.
Last night we played well in the first half but got nervous in the second half. There’s some anxiety at the moment as we’ve been on a bad run but things can change quickly. We look a mid table side to me at the moment and a top ten finish will be a decent return.
This bashing of the players and manager is pathetic though. Dr Winston has weighed in to just about every manager at our club since Bryan Flynn. Apart from Kenny Jackett. He loved him. 😂 |
I ll defend Winston here
No,I have had it in for most managers , at least after the gorgeous Sousa criminally underrated by our forum experts
Forget the rest , Martin stands alone | |
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| Top half team on 19:19 - Feb 17 with 763 views | STID2017 |
| Top half team on 20:06 - Feb 16 by onehunglow |
I ll defend Winston here
No,I have had it in for most managers , at least after the gorgeous Sousa criminally underrated by our forum experts
Forget the rest , Martin stands alone |
So you rate Martin above all others?
Wow that is some statement considering he is up against Msrtinez, Rodgers and Laudrup !
Well done Russ, that is some accolade | |
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| Top half team on 07:50 - Feb 18 with 699 views | jack247 |
| Top half team on 19:45 - Feb 16 by SullutaCreturned |
I'd start him and persist with him, we need him up to speed for next season.
The thing is, I am hoping Martin is gone and we have a new manager next season, martin has no reason to work towards next season if he thinks he'll be gone in the summer. I reckon he'd be more inclined to keep going as he is and try, try, try to make it work to prove a point.
The fact tht after 18 months it seems to have gone backwards as well as downhill is lots on him.
He can be a genuinely nice bloke, he can care about the players but s long as the football is so bad, so slow, so boring, I don't care. Him and the owners are damaging the club.
I don't mind us being eternally mid table but I want to enjoy going. |
I wouldn’t. He doesn’t merit it. Who would you leave out?
We are light on strikers, but if he’s a #10/wide attacker, I’d have Cooper, Congreve and Ntcham ahead of him.
If Martin does end up going in the summer and Paterson comes back into the reckoning, him too.
Keep bringing him on for 20/30 minutes, if he starts influencing games, then consider it. | | | |
| Top half team on 08:20 - Feb 18 with 683 views | Dr_Winston |
What chance does he have to influence games stuck out wide for the last 20 minutes, especially when you tend to play as badly as we do late on in games? It's setting him up to fail, which frankly I wouldn't put past Russy at this point.
For my money Piroe is the best option we have at #10, but given that he is at least capable of of playing upfront and is way better than Cullen then Whittaker is the obvious choice to at least be given a chance from the start.
Ntcham isn't a 10. I see him as more of a JdG type. Sitting central and pushing play on. Cooper just hasn't demonstrated anything like enough creative skill so far to suggest that he can play there. Good goalscoring instincts, wiling worker but not much in the way of guile and vision. Congreve has talent but would benefit from a loan spell first. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Top half team on 09:16 - Feb 18 with 654 views | jack247 |
| Top half team on 08:20 - Feb 18 by Dr_Winston |
What chance does he have to influence games stuck out wide for the last 20 minutes, especially when you tend to play as badly as we do late on in games? It's setting him up to fail, which frankly I wouldn't put past Russy at this point.
For my money Piroe is the best option we have at #10, but given that he is at least capable of of playing upfront and is way better than Cullen then Whittaker is the obvious choice to at least be given a chance from the start.
Ntcham isn't a 10. I see him as more of a JdG type. Sitting central and pushing play on. Cooper just hasn't demonstrated anything like enough creative skill so far to suggest that he can play there. Good goalscoring instincts, wiling worker but not much in the way of guile and vision. Congreve has talent but would benefit from a loan spell first. |
Whichever position he comes on in, the minimum requirement is to bust a gut. ‘Half hearted’ and ‘a player who wants to drift around and wait for the ball’ seem fairly accurate criticisms to me.
If he’s not doing that, he’s setting himself up to fail far more than Martin is.
However much we don’t rate Russell Martin, he works with these players every day. We’re looking at starting him based on a good season with Plymouth and a league cup hat trick 18 months ago. | | | |
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| Top half team on 09:56 - Feb 18 with 636 views | Dr_Winston |
| Top half team on 09:16 - Feb 18 by jack247 |
Whichever position he comes on in, the minimum requirement is to bust a gut. ‘Half hearted’ and ‘a player who wants to drift around and wait for the ball’ seem fairly accurate criticisms to me.
If he’s not doing that, he’s setting himself up to fail far more than Martin is.
However much we don’t rate Russell Martin, he works with these players every day. We’re looking at starting him based on a good season with Plymouth and a league cup hat trick 18 months ago. |
I can't quite believe people are still playing the "he sees them in training" card as if Martin's judgement is not widely considered flawed and his issues towards players he doesn't want proven beyond doubt. Let's be honest, he hadn't even seen him in training for half a season and he couldn't be bothered to hide his lack of enthusiasm for the kid.
I'm basing my desire to see what Whittaker can do on the half a season where he was considered one of the very best attacking players in League One whom clubs were reportedly interested in making seven figure bids for. "A good season" somewhat underplays what he was doing down there.
I'd like to see him have a run in the side in his best position, as I'd imagine any competent manager suddenly finding a player like that in his squad would do. It may work out, it may not, but to not even try would be idiotic. [Post edited 18 Feb 2023 9:59]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Top half team on 10:05 - Feb 18 with 629 views | jack247 |
| Top half team on 09:56 - Feb 18 by Dr_Winston |
I can't quite believe people are still playing the "he sees them in training" card as if Martin's judgement is not widely considered flawed and his issues towards players he doesn't want proven beyond doubt. Let's be honest, he hadn't even seen him in training for half a season and he couldn't be bothered to hide his lack of enthusiasm for the kid.
I'm basing my desire to see what Whittaker can do on the half a season where he was considered one of the very best attacking players in League One whom clubs were reportedly interested in making seven figure bids for. "A good season" somewhat underplays what he was doing down there.
I'd like to see him have a run in the side in his best position, as I'd imagine any competent manager suddenly finding a player like that in his squad would do. It may work out, it may not, but to not even try would be idiotic. [Post edited 18 Feb 2023 9:59]
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I’m not comparing what he sees in training to what Cooper did or Potter did. I’m comparing it to the last two substitute appearances you and I have seen (not even counting Birmingham as he had no chance) and 9 goals in half a season in league one.
As flawed as he may be, he has constant contact with the players are a far superior football insight than either of us.
It’s not the local leagues, you don’t just chuck a player in to see what he can do. | | | |
| Top half team on 12:08 - Feb 18 with 587 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Top half team on 07:50 - Feb 18 by jack247 |
I wouldn’t. He doesn’t merit it. Who would you leave out?
We are light on strikers, but if he’s a #10/wide attacker, I’d have Cooper, Congreve and Ntcham ahead of him.
If Martin does end up going in the summer and Paterson comes back into the reckoning, him too.
Keep bringing him on for 20/30 minutes, if he starts influencing games, then consider it. |
Simple, I'd bench Cullen. Besides that what does Ntcham do over a 90 minute spell? Then Congreve, what has he done?
Don't get me started on Paterson, that person should never get near our first team again. First up there''s his "head not being in the right place" then, once he was treated with kid gloves and got back in the team he proceeded to be utterly useless.
Cooper should start, yes. | | | |
| Top half team on 12:26 - Feb 18 with 583 views | jack247 |
| Top half team on 12:08 - Feb 18 by SullutaCreturned |
Simple, I'd bench Cullen. Besides that what does Ntcham do over a 90 minute spell? Then Congreve, what has he done?
Don't get me started on Paterson, that person should never get near our first team again. First up there''s his "head not being in the right place" then, once he was treated with kid gloves and got back in the team he proceeded to be utterly useless.
Cooper should start, yes. |
Ntcham is already benched. He starts now and again but it’s not very often.
Cullen scores goals, runs himself into the ground and makes Piroes game easier. If Whittaker is doing that in his cameos, there’s an argument to start him. Even if it’s not coming off, he should be matching Culllens work rate and determination.
Congreve is below him in the pecking order. He looks like he could be a real handful, but is still very raw.
Paterson is a talented player, but 100% agree with the rest of your assessment. | | | |
| Top half team on 12:47 - Feb 18 with 574 views | KeithHaynes |
 Blackburn Rovers v Swansea City : Team News 18th Feb 2023 11:45It’s Blackburn Rovers v Swansea City in the sky bet championship today, kick off 3pm at Ewood Park. Pay on the day for all fans is available if you fancy a very late decision on going to the game.  0
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| Top half team on 13:10 - Feb 18 with 563 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Top half team on 12:26 - Feb 18 by jack247 |
Ntcham is already benched. He starts now and again but it’s not very often.
Cullen scores goals, runs himself into the ground and makes Piroes game easier. If Whittaker is doing that in his cameos, there’s an argument to start him. Even if it’s not coming off, he should be matching Culllens work rate and determination.
Congreve is below him in the pecking order. He looks like he could be a real handful, but is still very raw.
Paterson is a talented player, but 100% agree with the rest of your assessment. |
Cullen had played a lot of times before he got to this season and his 5 goals in 13 games. He kept getting game time despite doing little to deserve it other than "running himself into the ground" which others have described as being a "headless chicken"
Against Blackpool Whittaker wasn't disinterested, he was constantly calling for the ball but Grimes mostly turned away and went left instead, not Whittakers fault, he made himself avaiable, he made runs but the ball didn't come. What is he supposed to do?
Cullen and Whiitaker are different types of player, Whittaker is more creative so try him in that position, maybe if he plas where he prefers he'll give more back?
All that aside, it's not like Martin hasn't dropped other players in and persisted with them when they give little back. How many times has he played people entirely out of position? Latibeadiere, Wolf, to start.
He's done it with others but as we all know, some payers constantly get ignored for no apparent reason while others, despite being a hindrance keep getting picked and defended. | | | |
| Top half team on 13:36 - Feb 18 with 553 views | jack247 |
| Top half team on 13:10 - Feb 18 by SullutaCreturned |
Cullen had played a lot of times before he got to this season and his 5 goals in 13 games. He kept getting game time despite doing little to deserve it other than "running himself into the ground" which others have described as being a "headless chicken"
Against Blackpool Whittaker wasn't disinterested, he was constantly calling for the ball but Grimes mostly turned away and went left instead, not Whittakers fault, he made himself avaiable, he made runs but the ball didn't come. What is he supposed to do?
Cullen and Whiitaker are different types of player, Whittaker is more creative so try him in that position, maybe if he plas where he prefers he'll give more back?
All that aside, it's not like Martin hasn't dropped other players in and persisted with them when they give little back. How many times has he played people entirely out of position? Latibeadiere, Wolf, to start.
He's done it with others but as we all know, some payers constantly get ignored for no apparent reason while others, despite being a hindrance keep getting picked and defended. |
This gets levelled against Cullen a lot. He may not have deserved starts in the past. He does at moment. 5 goals in 13 games is similar to Whittakers recent record, it’s just in the Championship. Calling him a headless chicken is just naive.
Your third paragraph sums it up really. Can you imagine the response if someone said that about Paterson ‘play him where he prefers and he’ll give more back’. The onus is on the player to give 100% wherever he plays.
I’m not saying he isn’t putting effort in, it may just be his style, Messi often looks like he’s coasting, but I can see where the ‘half hearted’ comment comes from.
I’m also not suggesting Martin is faultless, but it’s reasonable to assume he knows a bit more about football than you or I and he works with Whittaker and Cullen every day. It’s not as if he won’t have been tried in that position, it’s just done in training and we don’t see it.
Latibeaudiere is certainly a problem. Martin wants a player who can defend there, but the system he wants to play is never going to work if we can’t attack with pace and/or flair down both flanks. | | | |
| Top half team on 16:44 - Feb 18 with 535 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Top half team on 13:36 - Feb 18 by jack247 |
This gets levelled against Cullen a lot. He may not have deserved starts in the past. He does at moment. 5 goals in 13 games is similar to Whittakers recent record, it’s just in the Championship. Calling him a headless chicken is just naive.
Your third paragraph sums it up really. Can you imagine the response if someone said that about Paterson ‘play him where he prefers and he’ll give more back’. The onus is on the player to give 100% wherever he plays.
I’m not saying he isn’t putting effort in, it may just be his style, Messi often looks like he’s coasting, but I can see where the ‘half hearted’ comment comes from.
I’m also not suggesting Martin is faultless, but it’s reasonable to assume he knows a bit more about football than you or I and he works with Whittaker and Cullen every day. It’s not as if he won’t have been tried in that position, it’s just done in training and we don’t see it.
Latibeaudiere is certainly a problem. Martin wants a player who can defend there, but the system he wants to play is never going to work if we can’t attack with pace and/or flair down both flanks. |
Half hearted is just as naive as headless chicken, you kind of say it when you mention Messi.
Paterson stopped giving after his tantrum and the pay rise. For what it's worth players should be in their best position which is the problem with Lati, he is a centre back, emergency right back but in no way is he a wing back. Hes not quick, he cant't beat a man or cross...he is badly out of position but keeps getting picked.
Whatever happens in training, it has to work on matchdays and it doesn't, it hardly ever has and that's down to Martin. if he knows more about football he's doing a damn good job of looking clueless. For example, he has twice used a different system and twice we had reasonable runs but then he reverted to this and it hasn't worked, now a sensible coach might say, OK I'll go with what works but he doesn't, he persists with trying to get a Focus sport to drive like a Ferrari.
Edit, he put Whiyyaker on in the 90th minute, just what is he suppose to do, how can he prove anything in 6 minutes? [Post edited 18 Feb 2023 16:57]
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| Top half team on 17:18 - Feb 18 with 509 views | jack247 |
| Top half team on 16:44 - Feb 18 by SullutaCreturned |
Half hearted is just as naive as headless chicken, you kind of say it when you mention Messi.
Paterson stopped giving after his tantrum and the pay rise. For what it's worth players should be in their best position which is the problem with Lati, he is a centre back, emergency right back but in no way is he a wing back. Hes not quick, he cant't beat a man or cross...he is badly out of position but keeps getting picked.
Whatever happens in training, it has to work on matchdays and it doesn't, it hardly ever has and that's down to Martin. if he knows more about football he's doing a damn good job of looking clueless. For example, he has twice used a different system and twice we had reasonable runs but then he reverted to this and it hasn't worked, now a sensible coach might say, OK I'll go with what works but he doesn't, he persists with trying to get a Focus sport to drive like a Ferrari.
Edit, he put Whiyyaker on in the 90th minute, just what is he suppose to do, how can he prove anything in 6 minutes? [Post edited 18 Feb 2023 16:57]
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It’s not though is it? Put Cullen on wide right and he’ll chase every ball into the corner, hassle defenders and protect Lati. We didn’t see any of that from Whitaker midweek.
Agree on Latibeaudiere, he’s a utility defender without an attacking bone in his body. It’s not unreasonable for Martin to expect at least one full/wingback who can attack and defend, but in the absence of one, he needs to play a different system.
Knows more about football than we do, not than his peers. Unless you genuinely think either of us could do a better job. I know I couldn’t.
Nothing Whitaker could have done today. If he’s the best player in training every day, he’ll be starting games or coming on with a decent chunk of them left.
I may turn out wrong, but I do feel there is unreasonable expectation on him from fans who have barely seen him play. | | | |
| Top half team on 18:12 - Feb 18 with 476 views | swancity |
| Top half team on 09:56 - Feb 18 by Dr_Winston |
I can't quite believe people are still playing the "he sees them in training" card as if Martin's judgement is not widely considered flawed and his issues towards players he doesn't want proven beyond doubt. Let's be honest, he hadn't even seen him in training for half a season and he couldn't be bothered to hide his lack of enthusiasm for the kid.
I'm basing my desire to see what Whittaker can do on the half a season where he was considered one of the very best attacking players in League One whom clubs were reportedly interested in making seven figure bids for. "A good season" somewhat underplays what he was doing down there.
I'd like to see him have a run in the side in his best position, as I'd imagine any competent manager suddenly finding a player like that in his squad would do. It may work out, it may not, but to not even try would be idiotic. [Post edited 18 Feb 2023 9:59]
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You’re clueless. Grammatically correct with good spelling and punctuation but you haven’t got a clue about football, that much is obvious.
But keep on posting if it makes you happy …. 👠| |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Top half team on 18:44 - Feb 18 with 449 views | builthjack |
Still top half.
Looking forward to beating Stoke midweek. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Top half team on 19:40 - Feb 18 with 431 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Top half team on 18:44 - Feb 18 by builthjack |
Still top half.
Looking forward to beating Stoke midweek. |
You're looking at the league position, look at the points mun, we are2-3 bad results from being in a poor position.
We are sliding towards the relegation zone, we will probably have enough to avoid that but it's just not good enough. I don't know how anyone can defend Martin any more. | | | |
| Top half team on 19:42 - Feb 18 with 423 views | KeithHaynes |
| Top half team on 19:40 - Feb 18 by SullutaCreturned |
You're looking at the league position, look at the points mun, we are2-3 bad results from being in a poor position.
We are sliding towards the relegation zone, we will probably have enough to avoid that but it's just not good enough. I don't know how anyone can defend Martin any more. |
We are going to win the four games required.
I think. | |
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| Top half team on 19:49 - Feb 18 with 413 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Top half team on 19:42 - Feb 18 by KeithHaynes |
We are going to win the four games required.
I think. |
I'd like to think so but after seeing us against Blackpool and after today, where is our next win? Heck, where is our next point?
Stoke lost to Blackpool so maybe.... | | | |
| Top half team on 20:33 - Feb 18 with 383 views | builthjack |
| Top half team on 19:40 - Feb 18 by SullutaCreturned |
You're looking at the league position, look at the points mun, we are2-3 bad results from being in a poor position.
We are sliding towards the relegation zone, we will probably have enough to avoid that but it's just not good enough. I don't know how anyone can defend Martin any more. |
We will be mid table, no problem.
Yanks out. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Top half team on 20:39 - Feb 18 with 381 views | raynor94 |
| Top half team on 18:44 - Feb 18 by builthjack |
Still top half.
Looking forward to beating Stoke midweek. |
I can't see how anybody can look on that game with any confidence, we are in relegation form.
And it's the time of year the bottom 5 start finding form |  |
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| Top half team on 21:06 - Feb 18 with 370 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Top half team on 17:18 - Feb 18 by jack247 |
It’s not though is it? Put Cullen on wide right and he’ll chase every ball into the corner, hassle defenders and protect Lati. We didn’t see any of that from Whitaker midweek.
Agree on Latibeaudiere, he’s a utility defender without an attacking bone in his body. It’s not unreasonable for Martin to expect at least one full/wingback who can attack and defend, but in the absence of one, he needs to play a different system.
Knows more about football than we do, not than his peers. Unless you genuinely think either of us could do a better job. I know I couldn’t.
Nothing Whitaker could have done today. If he’s the best player in training every day, he’ll be starting games or coming on with a decent chunk of them left.
I may turn out wrong, but I do feel there is unreasonable expectation on him from fans who have barely seen him play. |
Your first para is kind of the point though, if he played a better formation where they were in their best ositions things would be better. We wouldn't have acentre back as wing back, we wouldn't have a striker as an attacking midfielder, we wouldn't have used a right back as centre half or played Cabango on the left when his left is purely for standing on.
If Martin really does know more about football then why is he trying so hard to make an Apple pie with a bag of sprouts? Why was his first pledge (to sort out the defence) such an incredible failure? Why does he keep blaming the players when a decent coach would be playing to our strengths and not forcing them to try and play a way they clearly cannot?
It's not even like it's debatable, look at our performances, look at our results. I'm sure he's a lovely bloke but he is NOT a good manager. | | | |
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