| Indy support falls 17:28 - Mar 3 with 8150 views | SullutaCreturned |
I'm surprised nobody has posted this,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
It also looks like Plaid Cymru are in disarray,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
It's not really a good look, is it? Plaid and thir great Welsh hope are nothing more than a clique of self serving no hopers and the Indy support hit a high but now support is waning as it looks much like Labour will thrash the tories in the next GE and with Sturgeon going it appears indy support in Scotland has fallen too.
Reports of the death of the UK seem quite premature! |  | | |  |
| Indy support falls on 19:08 - Mar 5 with 1264 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Indy support falls on 18:56 - Mar 5 by Gwyn737 |
That’s kind of my point, Cat.
The Indy types go on about not wanting to be ruled by Westminster, having decisions made from ‘afar’ and not wanting to recognise parliaments authority but are happy to cede control to the unelected in Brussels. I don’t see that as consistent.
On the other side (particularly over the bridge), the Brexit supporters won’t give a stuff about cutting wales loose.
However, wanting Brexit then being pro union isn’t consistent.
There’ll be exceptions of course depending on which type of Brexit an individual wanted but I’m just generalising. |
I wanted a brexit that was and will never happen. I wanted a free trade area with Europe with none of the political ties. Lets call it a NATO for trade.
I don't see consisyency as an issue here because it's politics and that isn't even consistent in Wales let alone the UK or Europe. There are far too many different wants and desires, too mnay cliques and ancient animosities, just look at Macron, he wants what he wants and sometimes that is just to pee off the English. The Germans only want to do anything that makes them stronger and as usual, it's the politicians are the problem. Most ordinary people just want to get on with their lives without so much interference. | | | |
| Indy support falls on 08:02 - Mar 6 with 1192 views | Whiterockin |
| Indy support falls on 19:08 - Mar 5 by SullutaCreturned |
I wanted a brexit that was and will never happen. I wanted a free trade area with Europe with none of the political ties. Lets call it a NATO for trade.
I don't see consisyency as an issue here because it's politics and that isn't even consistent in Wales let alone the UK or Europe. There are far too many different wants and desires, too mnay cliques and ancient animosities, just look at Macron, he wants what he wants and sometimes that is just to pee off the English. The Germans only want to do anything that makes them stronger and as usual, it's the politicians are the problem. Most ordinary people just want to get on with their lives without so much interference. |
Most people want politicians to provide the best for the general public irrespective if their political divide. Not what is best for the politician and their ego, this goes for every tier of government in every country. |  | | |
| Indy support falls on 08:45 - Mar 6 with 1164 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Indy support falls on 19:08 - Mar 5 by SullutaCreturned |
I wanted a brexit that was and will never happen. I wanted a free trade area with Europe with none of the political ties. Lets call it a NATO for trade.
I don't see consisyency as an issue here because it's politics and that isn't even consistent in Wales let alone the UK or Europe. There are far too many different wants and desires, too mnay cliques and ancient animosities, just look at Macron, he wants what he wants and sometimes that is just to pee off the English. The Germans only want to do anything that makes them stronger and as usual, it's the politicians are the problem. Most ordinary people just want to get on with their lives without so much interference. |
Why did you ever think that Brexit was on the table ?
It was always about the rich avoiding tax and the bonfire of workers rights.
The flag was to attract the hard of thinking.
Con job. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Indy support falls on 10:16 - Mar 6 with 1126 views | Gwyn737 |
| Indy support falls on 19:08 - Mar 5 by SullutaCreturned |
I wanted a brexit that was and will never happen. I wanted a free trade area with Europe with none of the political ties. Lets call it a NATO for trade.
I don't see consisyency as an issue here because it's politics and that isn't even consistent in Wales let alone the UK or Europe. There are far too many different wants and desires, too mnay cliques and ancient animosities, just look at Macron, he wants what he wants and sometimes that is just to pee off the English. The Germans only want to do anything that makes them stronger and as usual, it's the politicians are the problem. Most ordinary people just want to get on with their lives without so much interference. |
If the French and the Germans can do this from inside the EU, why did we need to come out? | | | |
| Indy support falls on 10:41 - Mar 6 with 1122 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Indy support falls on 10:16 - Mar 6 by Gwyn737 |
If the French and the Germans can do this from inside the EU, why did we need to come out? |
Mainly because the EU was never a democratic institution. It is controlled by a German and French alliance. | |
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| Indy support falls on 10:58 - Mar 6 with 1116 views | Gwyn737 |
| Indy support falls on 10:41 - Mar 6 by felixstowe_jack |
Mainly because the EU was never a democratic institution. It is controlled by a German and French alliance. |
Could you share with me an EU regulation or rule of significance that has been forced on us after voting our representatives voted against it?
Out veto was pretty powerful and I see more harm than good. You may well see it another way. | | | |
| Indy support falls on 12:04 - Mar 6 with 1095 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Indy support falls on 10:58 - Mar 6 by Gwyn737 |
Could you share with me an EU regulation or rule of significance that has been forced on us after voting our representatives voted against it?
Out veto was pretty powerful and I see more harm than good. You may well see it another way. |
Rul of significance? There were many things I did not like such as the ECJ having final say and being able to over rule our own courts. I did not like that EU law takes primacy.
Now our veto was also a bone of contention because it wasn't going to last forever, indeed some of it had already been ceded and moves were underway to get rid of it and bring us into line with the other members.
What I see is the potential to be better off but unfortunately we have a completely dire bunch of politicians who I wouldn't trust to run a bath. I have hopes for the future but brexit was always going to be a long term job. it was never goingbto be sorted and all be rosy in 5-10 years, it could be 20 years before we have any major tangible benefits. | | | |
| Indy support falls on 12:09 - Mar 6 with 1093 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Indy support falls on 08:45 - Mar 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Why did you ever think that Brexit was on the table ?
It was always about the rich avoiding tax and the bonfire of workers rights.
The flag was to attract the hard of thinking.
Con job. |
Now then, if you read a post properly maybe you wouldn't say things like that which leave you open to ridicule...was and will never happen...I knew it wasn't on the table.
Also, the rich have been using EU tax laws to avoid paying billions of tax in the UK and can you tell me which workers rights have been put on the bonfire?
The hard of thinking continually make stupid posts with even less basis in fact than my posts which is why they are continually ridiculed.
Maybe instead of always reverting/diverting to brexit you could comment on the fall in support for Indy in Wales? | | | |
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| Indy support falls on 13:44 - Mar 6 with 1061 views | Gwyn737 |
| Indy support falls on 12:04 - Mar 6 by SullutaCreturned |
Rul of significance? There were many things I did not like such as the ECJ having final say and being able to over rule our own courts. I did not like that EU law takes primacy.
Now our veto was also a bone of contention because it wasn't going to last forever, indeed some of it had already been ceded and moves were underway to get rid of it and bring us into line with the other members.
What I see is the potential to be better off but unfortunately we have a completely dire bunch of politicians who I wouldn't trust to run a bath. I have hopes for the future but brexit was always going to be a long term job. it was never goingbto be sorted and all be rosy in 5-10 years, it could be 20 years before we have any major tangible benefits. |
Things will get better but as we can already see, that will come with closer alignment. | | | |
| Indy support falls on 15:53 - Mar 6 with 1037 views | Treforys_Jack |
Simply put, the Indy's haven't covered themselves in glory, the Senedd has been deeply disappointing. Get some independent thinkers and doers in there. Let's support forward thinkers, thinking outside of SE Wales would be a start. [Post edited 6 Mar 2023 17:13]
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| Indy support falls on 18:22 - Mar 6 with 990 views | Boundy |
| Indy support falls on 15:53 - Mar 6 by Treforys_Jack |
Simply put, the Indy's haven't covered themselves in glory, the Senedd has been deeply disappointing. Get some independent thinkers and doers in there. Let's support forward thinkers, thinking outside of SE Wales would be a start. [Post edited 6 Mar 2023 17:13]
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if the current quality of politician and its policies within the Sennedd are anything to go by then as far as I'm concrerned I truly hope independance for Wales never happens . At the moment we have a country run by the few for the few and no one will convince me any differently . Thtas not to say Wales couldn't prosper but like all democracies we wouldnt have a one party state ( or would we) and the opposition would still contain the same faces we see now , all in the trough for their own ends . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Indy support falls on 22:20 - Mar 6 with 963 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Indy support falls on 13:44 - Mar 6 by Gwyn737 |
Things will get better but as we can already see, that will come with closer alignment. |
Yes but the alignment should be with trade and not political.
One last thing, what you say about the inconsistency, The big problem in Wales is that we have a group of people who don't consider themselves British, we have a large number of English "immigrants" and the third group, us Welsh who also call ourselves British.
It isn't us brexiteers/britats who are being inconsistent, its the Welsh nats who want to leave the Union and be ruled by the EU who are inconsistent. | | | |
| Indy support falls on 09:21 - Mar 7 with 920 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Indy support falls on 10:58 - Mar 6 by Gwyn737 |
Could you share with me an EU regulation or rule of significance that has been forced on us after voting our representatives voted against it?
Out veto was pretty powerful and I see more harm than good. You may well see it another way. |
One example of course was the CAP which benefits French farmers the most. We had to accept this when we joined no right to veto it. Tony Blair agree to hand back half the UK annual rebate to the EU in return for the EU reform the CAP. Guess what the EU took the money and the CAP was not reformed. | |
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| Indy support falls on 18:22 - Mar 7 with 885 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Indy support falls on 18:22 - Mar 6 by Boundy |
if the current quality of politician and its policies within the Sennedd are anything to go by then as far as I'm concrerned I truly hope independance for Wales never happens . At the moment we have a country run by the few for the few and no one will convince me any differently . Thtas not to say Wales couldn't prosper but like all democracies we wouldnt have a one party state ( or would we) and the opposition would still contain the same faces we see now , all in the trough for their own ends . |
Johnson
Truss
kwasi
Gove
Nads
Frost
Hancock
Mogg
The above are all far far worse than anyone in the Senedd.
You need to get off your knees, straighten your back and be a proud Welshman. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Indy support falls on 18:25 - Mar 7 with 884 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Indy support falls on 09:21 - Mar 7 by felixstowe_jack |
One example of course was the CAP which benefits French farmers the most. We had to accept this when we joined no right to veto it. Tony Blair agree to hand back half the UK annual rebate to the EU in return for the EU reform the CAP. Guess what the EU took the money and the CAP was not reformed. |
Blair said in 9 years of being PM there was not one thing that the EU asked of the UK that he disagreed with.
The Tory line that the EU imposed unwanted laws on the UK is simply nonsense. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Indy support falls on 18:36 - Mar 7 with 881 views | Gwyn737 |
| Indy support falls on 09:21 - Mar 7 by felixstowe_jack |
One example of course was the CAP which benefits French farmers the most. We had to accept this when we joined no right to veto it. Tony Blair agree to hand back half the UK annual rebate to the EU in return for the EU reform the CAP. Guess what the EU took the money and the CAP was not reformed. |
Are farmers better off now? | | | |
| Indy support falls on 18:55 - Mar 7 with 869 views | builthjack |
| Indy support falls on 18:36 - Mar 7 by Gwyn737 |
Are farmers better off now? |
I speak to farmers every day, being in a farming area.
The vast majority wish we had stayed in Europe.
Although most voted to leave as they were told they would be far better off. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Indy support falls on 19:26 - Mar 7 with 854 views | Gwyn737 |
| Indy support falls on 18:55 - Mar 7 by builthjack |
I speak to farmers every day, being in a farming area.
The vast majority wish we had stayed in Europe.
Although most voted to leave as they were told they would be far better off. |
My family are farmers Builthy so I see it every day too. | | | |
| Indy support falls on 19:35 - Mar 7 with 845 views | Boundy |
| Indy support falls on 18:22 - Mar 7 by Kilkennyjack |
Johnson
Truss
kwasi
Gove
Nads
Frost
Hancock
Mogg
The above are all far far worse than anyone in the Senedd.
You need to get off your knees, straighten your back and be a proud Welshman. |
I'll tell you what I want my little Irish friend , you telling me what I want . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Indy support falls on 14:42 - Mar 8 with 806 views | johnlangy |
I thought I’d respond to a few of the points in the thread.
‘I would like a vote on the future of Cardiff Bay, I voted for it but I would vote to scrap it now’
Why would you expect a vote on this ? There have been two referendums already. In 1979 the yes vote was just over 20%. Just eighteen years later the yes vote was just over 50%. An incredible turnaround in such a short time. Then fourteen years into devo the vote for more powers was 65% yes which effectively means a majority of two to one were saying they thought the Senedd was doing a good job. So I ask again, why would you expect a vote on it when it’s what the majority want ?
‘They will constantly ask for a second vote on the EU but the Nats will never give us a vote on devolution.’
Why is it that you say it’s the ‘nats’ who constantly ask for a second vote on the EU ? If the nats are the only ones who would vote yes to Indy (for arguments sake) then that would mean 25% at most. The remain vote was close to 50% so that means many non-nats are asking for a second vote as well. But many nats are not asking for a second vote (yet). As an example, i’ve said that in the future, if Brexit is seen to not be working then a second vote should be looked at. That’s not a particularly revolutionary opinion. It’s a sensible one. Re a vote on devolution, see my comment above.
‘The senedd still relies on the £3000 per person subsidy from UK taxpayers but still asks for more. Where does the Senedd spend this extra £9 billion a year?’
The imaginary, enormous deficit rears it’s ugly head again. The actual figure in the case of Independence has been shown to be less than a quarter of that.
‘It's a good question.’ referring to the £3000 per person mentioned above. No it isn’t a good question because the number is completely wrong.
‘The Indy types go on about not wanting to be ruled by Westminster, having decisions made from ‘afar’ and not wanting to recognise parliaments authority but are happy to cede control to the unelected in Brussels. I don’t see that as consistent.’
See my comment about ‘nats’ above. Speaking for myself, I’m certainly not looking to cede control to Brussels. I’m looking for Welsh Independence. If/when Wales has been Independent for a while and the Welsh people are supportive of attempting to join the EU then a case can be made for a referendum on that. If they are not supportive then there won’t be a referendum. Simple democracy. What’s wrong with that ?
‘Maybe instead of always reverting/diverting to brexit you could comment on the fall in support for Indy in Wales?’
I did a quick google on this and the walesonline report showed the figure to be 18%. The next google reference was to a site called statista.com which showed voting intentions from June 2020 to Feb 2023. The original figure was 25% and the latest was 22%. No one expects the indy numbers to go up all the time. But dropping back to 22% is hardly a catastrophic drop.
The OP refers to just the one figure from the poll. How can one number give a decent perspective ? Aren’t the rest of the numbers important ? The OP correctly says that the ‘yes’ vote has gone down, which many might read as the ‘no’ vote going up. But the fact is that the ‘no’ vote has not gone up. Surely that’s important as well ! It was 55%, much the same as it has been for some time.
That means that there are around 25% who didn’t say yes or no. If there was a vote it’s perfectly reasonable to believe that a large number would say no and a fair number would say yes. If you just guess at 8% being yes (not unreasonable because quite a few of the ‘don’t knows’ are the ones who have gone from yes to I’m not sure) then that alone will take the figure back to the upper twenties.
For anyone to dismiss these numbers as irrelevant makes no sense.
I’ll finish with a couple of questions.
Firstly, why do people post things that are not true in support of their position, which is anti Independence ?
Secondly, if they believe in their argument why don’t they make that argument with facts ? | | | |
| Indy support falls on 19:22 - Mar 8 with 766 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Indy support falls on 14:42 - Mar 8 by johnlangy |
I thought I’d respond to a few of the points in the thread.
‘I would like a vote on the future of Cardiff Bay, I voted for it but I would vote to scrap it now’
Why would you expect a vote on this ? There have been two referendums already. In 1979 the yes vote was just over 20%. Just eighteen years later the yes vote was just over 50%. An incredible turnaround in such a short time. Then fourteen years into devo the vote for more powers was 65% yes which effectively means a majority of two to one were saying they thought the Senedd was doing a good job. So I ask again, why would you expect a vote on it when it’s what the majority want ?
‘They will constantly ask for a second vote on the EU but the Nats will never give us a vote on devolution.’
Why is it that you say it’s the ‘nats’ who constantly ask for a second vote on the EU ? If the nats are the only ones who would vote yes to Indy (for arguments sake) then that would mean 25% at most. The remain vote was close to 50% so that means many non-nats are asking for a second vote as well. But many nats are not asking for a second vote (yet). As an example, i’ve said that in the future, if Brexit is seen to not be working then a second vote should be looked at. That’s not a particularly revolutionary opinion. It’s a sensible one. Re a vote on devolution, see my comment above.
‘The senedd still relies on the £3000 per person subsidy from UK taxpayers but still asks for more. Where does the Senedd spend this extra £9 billion a year?’
The imaginary, enormous deficit rears it’s ugly head again. The actual figure in the case of Independence has been shown to be less than a quarter of that.
‘It's a good question.’ referring to the £3000 per person mentioned above. No it isn’t a good question because the number is completely wrong.
‘The Indy types go on about not wanting to be ruled by Westminster, having decisions made from ‘afar’ and not wanting to recognise parliaments authority but are happy to cede control to the unelected in Brussels. I don’t see that as consistent.’
See my comment about ‘nats’ above. Speaking for myself, I’m certainly not looking to cede control to Brussels. I’m looking for Welsh Independence. If/when Wales has been Independent for a while and the Welsh people are supportive of attempting to join the EU then a case can be made for a referendum on that. If they are not supportive then there won’t be a referendum. Simple democracy. What’s wrong with that ?
‘Maybe instead of always reverting/diverting to brexit you could comment on the fall in support for Indy in Wales?’
I did a quick google on this and the walesonline report showed the figure to be 18%. The next google reference was to a site called statista.com which showed voting intentions from June 2020 to Feb 2023. The original figure was 25% and the latest was 22%. No one expects the indy numbers to go up all the time. But dropping back to 22% is hardly a catastrophic drop.
The OP refers to just the one figure from the poll. How can one number give a decent perspective ? Aren’t the rest of the numbers important ? The OP correctly says that the ‘yes’ vote has gone down, which many might read as the ‘no’ vote going up. But the fact is that the ‘no’ vote has not gone up. Surely that’s important as well ! It was 55%, much the same as it has been for some time.
That means that there are around 25% who didn’t say yes or no. If there was a vote it’s perfectly reasonable to believe that a large number would say no and a fair number would say yes. If you just guess at 8% being yes (not unreasonable because quite a few of the ‘don’t knows’ are the ones who have gone from yes to I’m not sure) then that alone will take the figure back to the upper twenties.
For anyone to dismiss these numbers as irrelevant makes no sense.
I’ll finish with a couple of questions.
Firstly, why do people post things that are not true in support of their position, which is anti Independence ?
Secondly, if they believe in their argument why don’t they make that argument with facts ? |
John, as always you make logical points, good points. I disagree with some purely because some may or may not be right, such as the true deficit.
The drop in support was given as down to 18% by the WoL, without an avtual vote on it we will never know the true support levels.
When I said the nats will never give us a vote, I should have been more specific, it was aimed at the few on here who expecta new brexit vote but would never, no matter what, allow a vote on devo. Those same people (or at least a person) insists that an indy Wales will join the EU.
Your last sentence, such facts are thin on the ground, cnstantly argued about and we cannot agree about the deficit or the percentage support because we don't have a definite number as a "fact"
One certain fact seems to eb that with the tories looking certain to lose the next vote, indy support has been affected. | | | |
| Indy support falls on 20:52 - Mar 8 with 735 views | Gwyn737 |
| Indy support falls on 19:22 - Mar 8 by SullutaCreturned |
John, as always you make logical points, good points. I disagree with some purely because some may or may not be right, such as the true deficit.
The drop in support was given as down to 18% by the WoL, without an avtual vote on it we will never know the true support levels.
When I said the nats will never give us a vote, I should have been more specific, it was aimed at the few on here who expecta new brexit vote but would never, no matter what, allow a vote on devo. Those same people (or at least a person) insists that an indy Wales will join the EU.
Your last sentence, such facts are thin on the ground, cnstantly argued about and we cannot agree about the deficit or the percentage support because we don't have a definite number as a "fact"
One certain fact seems to eb that with the tories looking certain to lose the next vote, indy support has been affected. |
I think that last paragraph is spot on. | | | |
| Indy support falls on 03:07 - Mar 9 with 689 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Indy support falls on 19:22 - Mar 8 by SullutaCreturned |
John, as always you make logical points, good points. I disagree with some purely because some may or may not be right, such as the true deficit.
The drop in support was given as down to 18% by the WoL, without an avtual vote on it we will never know the true support levels.
When I said the nats will never give us a vote, I should have been more specific, it was aimed at the few on here who expecta new brexit vote but would never, no matter what, allow a vote on devo. Those same people (or at least a person) insists that an indy Wales will join the EU.
Your last sentence, such facts are thin on the ground, cnstantly argued about and we cannot agree about the deficit or the percentage support because we don't have a definite number as a "fact"
One certain fact seems to eb that with the tories looking certain to lose the next vote, indy support has been affected. |
The uk will also rejoin the eu.
Look at the scenes in Ukraine and Georgia.
The eu is a good thing, whilst brexit ideology is dishonest, divisive, and a fundamentally dumb ass idea. An idea to get Johnson to PM no matter what.
An indy wales will join the eu, just like ireland.
This is not a controversial view. Its inevitable. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Indy support falls on 03:14 - Mar 9 with 687 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Indy support falls on 14:42 - Mar 8 by johnlangy |
I thought I’d respond to a few of the points in the thread.
‘I would like a vote on the future of Cardiff Bay, I voted for it but I would vote to scrap it now’
Why would you expect a vote on this ? There have been two referendums already. In 1979 the yes vote was just over 20%. Just eighteen years later the yes vote was just over 50%. An incredible turnaround in such a short time. Then fourteen years into devo the vote for more powers was 65% yes which effectively means a majority of two to one were saying they thought the Senedd was doing a good job. So I ask again, why would you expect a vote on it when it’s what the majority want ?
‘They will constantly ask for a second vote on the EU but the Nats will never give us a vote on devolution.’
Why is it that you say it’s the ‘nats’ who constantly ask for a second vote on the EU ? If the nats are the only ones who would vote yes to Indy (for arguments sake) then that would mean 25% at most. The remain vote was close to 50% so that means many non-nats are asking for a second vote as well. But many nats are not asking for a second vote (yet). As an example, i’ve said that in the future, if Brexit is seen to not be working then a second vote should be looked at. That’s not a particularly revolutionary opinion. It’s a sensible one. Re a vote on devolution, see my comment above.
‘The senedd still relies on the £3000 per person subsidy from UK taxpayers but still asks for more. Where does the Senedd spend this extra £9 billion a year?’
The imaginary, enormous deficit rears it’s ugly head again. The actual figure in the case of Independence has been shown to be less than a quarter of that.
‘It's a good question.’ referring to the £3000 per person mentioned above. No it isn’t a good question because the number is completely wrong.
‘The Indy types go on about not wanting to be ruled by Westminster, having decisions made from ‘afar’ and not wanting to recognise parliaments authority but are happy to cede control to the unelected in Brussels. I don’t see that as consistent.’
See my comment about ‘nats’ above. Speaking for myself, I’m certainly not looking to cede control to Brussels. I’m looking for Welsh Independence. If/when Wales has been Independent for a while and the Welsh people are supportive of attempting to join the EU then a case can be made for a referendum on that. If they are not supportive then there won’t be a referendum. Simple democracy. What’s wrong with that ?
‘Maybe instead of always reverting/diverting to brexit you could comment on the fall in support for Indy in Wales?’
I did a quick google on this and the walesonline report showed the figure to be 18%. The next google reference was to a site called statista.com which showed voting intentions from June 2020 to Feb 2023. The original figure was 25% and the latest was 22%. No one expects the indy numbers to go up all the time. But dropping back to 22% is hardly a catastrophic drop.
The OP refers to just the one figure from the poll. How can one number give a decent perspective ? Aren’t the rest of the numbers important ? The OP correctly says that the ‘yes’ vote has gone down, which many might read as the ‘no’ vote going up. But the fact is that the ‘no’ vote has not gone up. Surely that’s important as well ! It was 55%, much the same as it has been for some time.
That means that there are around 25% who didn’t say yes or no. If there was a vote it’s perfectly reasonable to believe that a large number would say no and a fair number would say yes. If you just guess at 8% being yes (not unreasonable because quite a few of the ‘don’t knows’ are the ones who have gone from yes to I’m not sure) then that alone will take the figure back to the upper twenties.
For anyone to dismiss these numbers as irrelevant makes no sense.
I’ll finish with a couple of questions.
Firstly, why do people post things that are not true in support of their position, which is anti Independence ?
Secondly, if they believe in their argument why don’t they make that argument with facts ? |
Also john, the uk has a huge debt and wales cannot afford to stay.
Why dont people start there ?
Any debt taken out in our name but without our consent will not stand.
Wales needs the tools that only Indy can bring.
Devo max under a uk labour govt might work for even 20 years, but the undermining of the Senedd by English Tory MPs will accelerate the calls for full Indy soonest. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Indy support falls on 08:39 - Mar 9 with 654 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Indy support falls on 03:14 - Mar 9 by Kilkennyjack |
Also john, the uk has a huge debt and wales cannot afford to stay.
Why dont people start there ?
Any debt taken out in our name but without our consent will not stand.
Wales needs the tools that only Indy can bring.
Devo max under a uk labour govt might work for even 20 years, but the undermining of the Senedd by English Tory MPs will accelerate the calls for full Indy soonest. |
Much of the debt was of course run up during the labour banking crisis and paying for 12 million people to keep their jobs during covoid. Not helped of course by the annual £24 billion subsidies to Scotland snd Wales.
Time for a second devolution referendum before Drakeford installs more Senedd and changes the voting system. | |
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