| US mass shootings 22:12 - Mar 28 with 7203 views | britferry |
130 times this year where 4 or more people have been killed in an incident.
I just can't understand why they like to target schools, Ok, the kids can't fight back but what the hell have they done to deserve being shot at their age? |  |
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| US mass shootings on 09:54 - Mar 29 with 692 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 09:37 - Mar 29 by Boundy |
Unless your down in the prone position then every time a longer barrel is more accurate than a short barrel and obviously distance is a major factor along with many others .That's why assault weapons are classed as more dangerous because of the risk of collateral damage . |
That’s not true, assault weapons have nothing to do with accuracy.
An assault weapon has nothing to do with length of barrel, and that is not why they are deemed more dangerous.
Put me in a room with you armed with a long barrelled rifle or and handgun and if I was that way inclined - I’m shooting you first time regardless of length of gun, and I have barely shot a gun in my life.
Futile argument. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 10:07]
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| US mass shootings on 09:54 - Mar 29 with 693 views | felixstowe_jack |
In 2020 the last year statistics are available there were 45,222 deaths in the USA from gunshots.
54% were from suicides and 43% from murder with 3% from other causes , accidents, law enforcement an undetermined causes.
It seems you are more likely to die from owning a gun than being a victim murder.
Murders by gunshot in 2020 were 19,384 the highest on record. Guns accounted for 80% of murders in 2020.
From those stark facts it proves that owing a gun does not protect an individual at all, but increases their risks of dying.
Still the myth that arming yourself protects youself exists in the USA just as the myth that carry a knife protects you in the UK. | |
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| US mass shootings on 09:57 - Mar 29 with 686 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 09:54 - Mar 29 by felixstowe_jack |
In 2020 the last year statistics are available there were 45,222 deaths in the USA from gunshots.
54% were from suicides and 43% from murder with 3% from other causes , accidents, law enforcement an undetermined causes.
It seems you are more likely to die from owning a gun than being a victim murder.
Murders by gunshot in 2020 were 19,384 the highest on record. Guns accounted for 80% of murders in 2020.
From those stark facts it proves that owing a gun does not protect an individual at all, but increases their risks of dying.
Still the myth that arming yourself protects youself exists in the USA just as the myth that carry a knife protects you in the UK. |
It’s certainly not a myth.
There are countless instances of people not only protecting themselves but others. I’ve posted half a dozen links that took about 15 seconds to find.
I think I could list 1000 and still have more to choose from, and those are just the ones written about.
But again, the other option is just to keep the criminals armed. Why? | |
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| US mass shootings on 10:01 - Mar 29 with 674 views | Dr_Parnassus |
People can feel free to answer this one too.
Your kids are in this food court in Indiana being shot up by a crazed murderer.
You have the option to disarm Elisjsha Dicken (pictured above) or allow him to stop the gunman by shooting him.
What do you pick?
Don’t all answer at once… | |
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| US mass shootings on 10:19 - Mar 29 with 651 views | felixstowe_jack |
| US mass shootings on 09:57 - Mar 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s certainly not a myth.
There are countless instances of people not only protecting themselves but others. I’ve posted half a dozen links that took about 15 seconds to find.
I think I could list 1000 and still have more to choose from, and those are just the ones written about.
But again, the other option is just to keep the criminals armed. Why? |
You have not answered the point that more people are killed by their own guns than are murdered.
Just pointing to a few occasions where people used guns to stop possible murders which may have saved a couple of hundred lives as opposed to 40,000 plus annual guns that would be significantly reduced if less guns were about. | |
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| US mass shootings on 10:25 - Mar 29 with 650 views | A_Fans_Dad |
One thing about the majority of the "mass" shootings, especially in schools, is that they are carried out in "Gun Free Zones".
They know there will be no armed resistance.
Watch the video of this latest shooting, after shooting out the front doors to announce her arrival she walks in to the foyer with one hand holding the door open and her rifle pointed at the floor, if there had been a trained armed guard in that foyer the shooter would have been dead before being able to kill anyone. | | | |
| US mass shootings on 10:25 - Mar 29 with 648 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 10:19 - Mar 29 by felixstowe_jack |
You have not answered the point that more people are killed by their own guns than are murdered.
Just pointing to a few occasions where people used guns to stop possible murders which may have saved a couple of hundred lives as opposed to 40,000 plus annual guns that would be significantly reduced if less guns were about. |
Suicide isn’t an accident, they were trying to kill themselves.
It wasn’t a product of owning a gun. Owning a gun doesn’t make you want to kill yourself, I don’t understand the point you are making.
Does it really matter if you shoot yourself or hang yourself?
Where are your figures of preventative deaths to be able to compare?
Be that from reduced armed home invasions, reduced fatal assaults and reduced armed conflict as a result of the fear of others being armed. As well as the many saved from shooting their attackers.
There are two options:
1) Disarm law abiding citizens
2) Allow them to defend themselves
Choosing option 1 would be a disaster and a green light for armed criminals to go on a rampage safe in the knowledge that the only threat to life is now from the police. | |
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| US mass shootings on 10:29 - Mar 29 with 642 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 10:25 - Mar 29 by A_Fans_Dad |
One thing about the majority of the "mass" shootings, especially in schools, is that they are carried out in "Gun Free Zones".
They know there will be no armed resistance.
Watch the video of this latest shooting, after shooting out the front doors to announce her arrival she walks in to the foyer with one hand holding the door open and her rifle pointed at the floor, if there had been a trained armed guard in that foyer the shooter would have been dead before being able to kill anyone. |
There is a reason not a single person will answer my questions.
It’s because their answer would be “I’d rather own a gun in that instance”.
They can’t bring themselves to say it, but it’s the only answer available. Anything else is utterly bonkers.
This is the situation faced by people in America. Own one, or run the risk of not being able to protect your family in a situation where you need to. 400 million guns owned privately in the USA, 99.9% of them are owned responsibly for this reason.
I know which I’d be picking. | |
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| US mass shootings on 10:40 - Mar 29 with 640 views | felixstowe_jack |
| US mass shootings on 10:29 - Mar 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
There is a reason not a single person will answer my questions.
It’s because their answer would be “I’d rather own a gun in that instance”.
They can’t bring themselves to say it, but it’s the only answer available. Anything else is utterly bonkers.
This is the situation faced by people in America. Own one, or run the risk of not being able to protect your family in a situation where you need to. 400 million guns owned privately in the USA, 99.9% of them are owned responsibly for this reason.
I know which I’d be picking. |
The undeniable fact and truth is that in the countries with the highest gun ownership and least gun laws have the highest murder rates from guns.
Figures are deaths per 100k of population
Top five countries
Venezuela 35.75
El Salvador 33.34
Guatemala 33.06
Colombia 25.29
USA 23.29
Brazil 22.84
Selection of some of the safest countries
Italy 1.35%
Germany 1.22%
Ireland 0.57%
Netherlands 0.48%
UK 0. 24%
South Korea 0 08%
Without dispute you are upto 100 times safer in countries with very tough gun laws and very low gun ownership.
I know which I would rather have and would be safer, that is low gun ownership | |
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| US mass shootings on 10:43 - Mar 29 with 635 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 10:40 - Mar 29 by felixstowe_jack |
The undeniable fact and truth is that in the countries with the highest gun ownership and least gun laws have the highest murder rates from guns.
Figures are deaths per 100k of population
Top five countries
Venezuela 35.75
El Salvador 33.34
Guatemala 33.06
Colombia 25.29
USA 23.29
Brazil 22.84
Selection of some of the safest countries
Italy 1.35%
Germany 1.22%
Ireland 0.57%
Netherlands 0.48%
UK 0. 24%
South Korea 0 08%
Without dispute you are upto 100 times safer in countries with very tough gun laws and very low gun ownership.
I know which I would rather have and would be safer, that is low gun ownership |
But the choice isn’t “no guns” or “guns”. This is what people fail to understand.
400 MILLION guns in circulation. 90% of criminals that used a gun to commit their crimes say they did not get their guns from retail.
The guns are already there. Damage long but done.
So the scenario you paint isn’t the scenario the US face. There has never been 400 million civilian owned guns in any of the countries you list as “safe”. | |
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| US mass shootings on 11:05 - Mar 29 with 624 views | felixstowe_jack |
| US mass shootings on 10:43 - Mar 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
But the choice isn’t “no guns” or “guns”. This is what people fail to understand.
400 MILLION guns in circulation. 90% of criminals that used a gun to commit their crimes say they did not get their guns from retail.
The guns are already there. Damage long but done.
So the scenario you paint isn’t the scenario the US face. There has never been 400 million civilian owned guns in any of the countries you list as “safe”. |
You have answered your own question 90% of criminals did not get their guns from retail. Although the 10% who did is extraordinary that they can just walk into a shop and buy one. The other 90% have got their guns usually stealing guns during burglary.
Some more facts for you.
39% of men in the USA own guns while only 22.6% of women own guns.
Yet men are 7 times more likely to be shot that women in the USA . You would think far more women than men would be murdered if according to your arguments being armed protects you from murder. | |
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| US mass shootings on 11:25 - Mar 29 with 617 views | Gwyn737 |
| US mass shootings on 11:05 - Mar 29 by felixstowe_jack |
You have answered your own question 90% of criminals did not get their guns from retail. Although the 10% who did is extraordinary that they can just walk into a shop and buy one. The other 90% have got their guns usually stealing guns during burglary.
Some more facts for you.
39% of men in the USA own guns while only 22.6% of women own guns.
Yet men are 7 times more likely to be shot that women in the USA . You would think far more women than men would be murdered if according to your arguments being armed protects you from murder. |
It’s clear than in the US as gun ownership has risen so have associated gun deaths.
If the answer to making people safer is more guns, where’s the tipping point?
Would a billion guns do it? | | | |
| US mass shootings on 11:31 - Mar 29 with 610 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 11:25 - Mar 29 by Gwyn737 |
It’s clear than in the US as gun ownership has risen so have associated gun deaths.
If the answer to making people safer is more guns, where’s the tipping point?
Would a billion guns do it? |
Nobody has said “more” guns make people safer.
The point being made is that in a country where there are 400 million guns in circulation, having one to protect yourself is safer for you than not having one.
That’s just an undeniable fact.
Won’t make you immune from harm of course, but I don’t think anyone has suggested it would, have they?
I have given the forum many scenarios in where they find themselves in many scenarios that Americans unfortunately find themselves in. Asked if you would prefer yourself or someone else to be armed to be able to stop such a scenario…
Nobody can answer, because the answer is yes. | |
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| US mass shootings on 11:34 - Mar 29 with 608 views | Scotia |
| US mass shootings on 09:18 - Mar 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
So it’s not power you are concerned about, but accuracy?
I’m pretty sure most murders, be that mass murders or singular aren’t done from a snipers position. They are done at close range and in close quarters. I highly doubt they are using scopes, it’s a point and shoot scenario.
It’s not a fascination, it’s a supporting of a highly political right to bear arms. There is a very real lobby to try and disarm people, knowing that the only people being disarmed are those using them responsibly.
It’s not just about mass shooting, it’s about shootings and life threatening situations in general. I can post hundreds of examples of shootings being stopped by armed civilians.
https://www.wbko.com/2023/02/1
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/ne
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/n
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/
https://www.wcjb.com/2023/02/1
https://www.kktv.com/2023/01/0
I could probably post thousands of these if needed (armed intruders being shot by vulnerable people). [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 9:27]
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It's the killing of innocent people that concerns me, I don't really care what type of gun is used.
If most cases involve close range discharge of a firearm why does anyone need to own any form of long barreled rifle?
It looks more like an obsession to be honest, a bit like those oddballs who pose with massive fish or murdered wildlife.
I haven't got a problem with anyone shooting a home intruder.
The longer this thread goes on it seems to be completely apparent that American society is a bit of a basket case. If only someone could have a time machine and steal the quill from whoever signed the 2nd amendment. | | | |
| US mass shootings on 11:35 - Mar 29 with 603 views | Scotia |
| US mass shootings on 10:01 - Mar 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
People can feel free to answer this one too.
Your kids are in this food court in Indiana being shot up by a crazed murderer.
You have the option to disarm Elisjsha Dicken (pictured above) or allow him to stop the gunman by shooting him.
What do you pick?
Don’t all answer at once… |
How many times has this type of situation arisen though? | | | |
| US mass shootings on 11:37 - Mar 29 with 601 views | onehunglow |
A country apparently very protective of the unborn child but not that much regarding its living ones.
A sick land perverted by religion | |
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| US mass shootings on 11:40 - Mar 29 with 599 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| US mass shootings on 10:40 - Mar 29 by felixstowe_jack |
The undeniable fact and truth is that in the countries with the highest gun ownership and least gun laws have the highest murder rates from guns.
Figures are deaths per 100k of population
Top five countries
Venezuela 35.75
El Salvador 33.34
Guatemala 33.06
Colombia 25.29
USA 23.29
Brazil 22.84
Selection of some of the safest countries
Italy 1.35%
Germany 1.22%
Ireland 0.57%
Netherlands 0.48%
UK 0. 24%
South Korea 0 08%
Without dispute you are upto 100 times safer in countries with very tough gun laws and very low gun ownership.
I know which I would rather have and would be safer, that is low gun ownership |
I have no idea where you got your "safety statistics" from but it is obviously Not related to gun ownership.
Position in the world in 2017 for gun ownership/100,000 population source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Venezuela 32nd place (18.5 guns/100,000 population)
El Salvador 65th place (12.0 guns/100,000 population)
Guatemala 64th place (12.1 guns/100,000 population)
Colombia 77th place (10.1 guns/100,000 population)
USA 1st place (120.5 guns/100,000 population)
Brazil 94th place (8.3 guns/100,000 population)
So it must have to do with something else. | | | |
| US mass shootings on 11:41 - Mar 29 with 598 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 11:34 - Mar 29 by Scotia |
It's the killing of innocent people that concerns me, I don't really care what type of gun is used.
If most cases involve close range discharge of a firearm why does anyone need to own any form of long barreled rifle?
It looks more like an obsession to be honest, a bit like those oddballs who pose with massive fish or murdered wildlife.
I haven't got a problem with anyone shooting a home intruder.
The longer this thread goes on it seems to be completely apparent that American society is a bit of a basket case. If only someone could have a time machine and steal the quill from whoever signed the 2nd amendment. |
Hunting is the main reason, which is the vast majority of why those guns are bought.
If you have no issue with someone shooting a home intruder, then you should have no issues with someone shooting a mass shooter.
Those scenarios require guns to be available to the public in order to protect themselves from these instances.
Of course American society is a basket case, we know that. Mental health epidemic is horrific for one, as is the amount of people now let out on bail or released altogether despite committing terrible crimes.
Which is why it’s vital we have strong leaders in place willing to tackle it, and now some may understand why I can’t stand the likes of Biden or the Democrats who pander to this sort of thing with regards to defunding the police and bail reform.
But as has been discussed, stopping gun ownership now is not a viable option, no matter how much people kick and scream. | |
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| US mass shootings on 11:42 - Mar 29 with 596 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 11:35 - Mar 29 by Scotia |
How many times has this type of situation arisen though? |
A fair few, bad guys with guns being shot seems a common occurrence in America.
But even once is enough, isn’t it?
The other option is for it to happen and nobody stop him. Why is that preferable? | |
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| US mass shootings on 11:53 - Mar 29 with 573 views | Scotia |
| US mass shootings on 11:42 - Mar 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
A fair few, bad guys with guns being shot seems a common occurrence in America.
But even once is enough, isn’t it?
The other option is for it to happen and nobody stop him. Why is that preferable? |
It's not preferable it shouldn't happen in the first place. But the rationale behind the right to bare arms is to be able to defend yourself, it's obviously not working. A fair few is thousands too few over the years.
I'd agree a strong leader is needed, one who can sort this mess out, who would vote for that if it was a candidates policy? | | | |
| US mass shootings on 11:57 - Mar 29 with 568 views | Scotia |
| US mass shootings on 11:41 - Mar 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Hunting is the main reason, which is the vast majority of why those guns are bought.
If you have no issue with someone shooting a home intruder, then you should have no issues with someone shooting a mass shooter.
Those scenarios require guns to be available to the public in order to protect themselves from these instances.
Of course American society is a basket case, we know that. Mental health epidemic is horrific for one, as is the amount of people now let out on bail or released altogether despite committing terrible crimes.
Which is why it’s vital we have strong leaders in place willing to tackle it, and now some may understand why I can’t stand the likes of Biden or the Democrats who pander to this sort of thing with regards to defunding the police and bail reform.
But as has been discussed, stopping gun ownership now is not a viable option, no matter how much people kick and scream. |
You can own a rifle for hunting in this country, but under strict restrictions and controls. My neighbour has one in a safe in his loft. I've never seen it except for in a case being loaded in to his car.
To shoot a home intruder you need a gun at home. Not in a shopping mall. | | | |
| US mass shootings on 11:59 - Mar 29 with 567 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 11:53 - Mar 29 by Scotia |
It's not preferable it shouldn't happen in the first place. But the rationale behind the right to bare arms is to be able to defend yourself, it's obviously not working. A fair few is thousands too few over the years.
I'd agree a strong leader is needed, one who can sort this mess out, who would vote for that if it was a candidates policy? |
I don’t understand your point at all here.
Even one person defending themselves against armed criminals is valid enough reasoning for the right to bear arms. Again, criminals aren’t going to hand back their guns, only law abiding citizens and there is 400 million in circulation.
So all you are doing is saying “sorry to the thousands who have saved their own lives and others, we are actually going to require you all to have died in those instances as I’m not happy that even more bad guys aren’t being killed”.
I can probably reel off 1000 links to incidents of the public defending themselves against armed attackers and not even scratch the surface. That’s only the ones reported.
That one incident in Indiana could have saved 100 lives in a single afternoon, he ended up “just” killing 3 in a packed food court. | |
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| US mass shootings on 12:01 - Mar 29 with 561 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| US mass shootings on 11:41 - Mar 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Hunting is the main reason, which is the vast majority of why those guns are bought.
If you have no issue with someone shooting a home intruder, then you should have no issues with someone shooting a mass shooter.
Those scenarios require guns to be available to the public in order to protect themselves from these instances.
Of course American society is a basket case, we know that. Mental health epidemic is horrific for one, as is the amount of people now let out on bail or released altogether despite committing terrible crimes.
Which is why it’s vital we have strong leaders in place willing to tackle it, and now some may understand why I can’t stand the likes of Biden or the Democrats who pander to this sort of thing with regards to defunding the police and bail reform.
But as has been discussed, stopping gun ownership now is not a viable option, no matter how much people kick and scream. |
The main reason for gun ownership in the USA is Self defence (67%).
https://www.pewresearch.org/so | | | |
| US mass shootings on 12:02 - Mar 29 with 559 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US mass shootings on 11:57 - Mar 29 by Scotia |
You can own a rifle for hunting in this country, but under strict restrictions and controls. My neighbour has one in a safe in his loft. I've never seen it except for in a case being loaded in to his car.
To shoot a home intruder you need a gun at home. Not in a shopping mall. |
But to shoot an active shooter in a shopping mall you need one in a shopping mall.
If you are allowed a gun in your home then there is nothing stopping a criminal taking the gun out of the home is there…
So again, maybe you can be the first to answer.
Active shooter in a mall, your kids look to be next in line. Do you choose to have a gun on you in that instance (or someone else willing to shoot him dead)… or do you back your decision that you don’t have a gun, knowing that criminals will always have one?
Those are the two options.
Pick one. | |
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