| More information on the Convertible Loan note 19:41 - Dec 3 with 11153 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
This is an extract from the Structured dialogue held early this month. (presented on Planetswans) . Given in parenthesis
[Julian stated that last year ownership invested, via a loan note, around £10-13 million. Jake Silverstein invested half, Jason Levien and Steve Kaplan matched that and some of our other shareholders contributed smaller amounts, into a convertible loan note. This club is a debt free club, apart from the convertible loan note, which is designed to leave the club debt free. We have capacity in the loan note to be able to do more and there will be a need this year for them to do more. We need to understand what we need from the January window and get through the beginning of the summer window. Our financial year is from August, so if a player is sold in July, then it would go into this year’s numbers.]
It seems some of the local shareholders may also have contributed. Interesting.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2021 19:44]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:18 - Dec 3 with 2589 views | Chief |
It is interesting although it makes no sense. Silverstein invested half, matched by K&L. 2 halves = 100%.
'some of our other shareholders' presumably means plural, so does this mean the trust is the only shareholder not involved? The other shareholders being Morgan&Jenkins?
Which of course means the dilution will be at the trust's door alone.... (If this ever does get converted &if the trust are still shareholders) |  |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:21 - Dec 3 with 2583 views | vetchonian |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:18 - Dec 3 by Chief |
It is interesting although it makes no sense. Silverstein invested half, matched by K&L. 2 halves = 100%.
'some of our other shareholders' presumably means plural, so does this mean the trust is the only shareholder not involved? The other shareholders being Morgan&Jenkins?
Which of course means the dilution will be at the trust's door alone.... (If this ever does get converted &if the trust are still shareholders) |
it's probably a way out from paying out when they lose the court case...more dirty tactics |  |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:37 - Dec 3 with 2560 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:21 - Dec 3 by vetchonian |
it's probably a way out from paying out when they lose the court case...more dirty tactics |
Well what it demonstrates to me is that there's obviously still a fairly large disconnect between the American owners and the trust on the share ownership. Pretty sure the trust haven't mentioned any of the other shareholders being in on this CLN(pretty sure they'd have released that information at some point if they knew)&I don't believe the trust were ever asked to contribute.
So again, as you alluded to Vetch there's obviously covert negotiation going on with the trust once again being excluded. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:25 - Dec 3 with 2534 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:21 - Dec 3 by vetchonian |
it's probably a way out from paying out when they lose the court case...more dirty tactics |
You are being ironic right? | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:17 - Dec 3 with 2483 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:37 - Dec 3 by Chief |
Well what it demonstrates to me is that there's obviously still a fairly large disconnect between the American owners and the trust on the share ownership. Pretty sure the trust haven't mentioned any of the other shareholders being in on this CLN(pretty sure they'd have released that information at some point if they knew)&I don't believe the trust were ever asked to contribute.
So again, as you alluded to Vetch there's obviously covert negotiation going on with the trust once again being excluded. |
I do not think you are fully informed and making unsubstantiated conclusions. You are able to clear all your doubts and ring up the SCST leadership and ask them. You are a fee paying member and have a right to know.
If I was a member I would want the SCST to be getting a piece of the 5% interest rates. 33 times better than they were getting from Santander. (according to accounts). | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:37 - Dec 3 with 2473 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:17 - Dec 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I do not think you are fully informed and making unsubstantiated conclusions. You are able to clear all your doubts and ring up the SCST leadership and ask them. You are a fee paying member and have a right to know.
If I was a member I would want the SCST to be getting a piece of the 5% interest rates. 33 times better than they were getting from Santander. (according to accounts). |
What other conclusion is there to come to? You don't seem to have come up with any plausible alternative theory, just a random swipe and diversion.
Well 1. Yes 5% would be lovely, but the trust weren't invited to weigh in, so it's a non-starter anyway.
And 2. I wouldn't want the trust taking money out of the club currently. When our CEO is publically stating the owners need to put more money in, the last thing the club needs is shareholders syphoning off funds. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:18 - Dec 3 with 2462 views | BillyChong |
What’s the interest rate on this CLN Res? I doubt these highly esteemed lawyers from the US of A are loaning dollars for nothing. 5% or Santander rates? | | | |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 00:32 - Dec 4 with 2448 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:37 - Dec 3 by Chief |
What other conclusion is there to come to? You don't seem to have come up with any plausible alternative theory, just a random swipe and diversion.
Well 1. Yes 5% would be lovely, but the trust weren't invited to weigh in, so it's a non-starter anyway.
And 2. I wouldn't want the trust taking money out of the club currently. When our CEO is publically stating the owners need to put more money in, the last thing the club needs is shareholders syphoning off funds. |
You need to ask your Trust representative and get the facts. Your conclusions are most probably incorrect.
I criticise the members for not asking questions and not looking at outcomes. You prefer to deal in speculation rather than ask responsible people to give you answers. You pay an annual fee? What for? Are you happy not to know anything?
[Post edited 4 Dec 2021 0:39]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 00:51 - Dec 4 with 2430 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 00:32 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You need to ask your Trust representative and get the facts. Your conclusions are most probably incorrect.
I criticise the members for not asking questions and not looking at outcomes. You prefer to deal in speculation rather than ask responsible people to give you answers. You pay an annual fee? What for? Are you happy not to know anything?
[Post edited 4 Dec 2021 0:39]
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So which part in particular do you think is incorrect? | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 09:54 - Dec 4 with 2374 views | Catullus |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 00:32 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You need to ask your Trust representative and get the facts. Your conclusions are most probably incorrect.
I criticise the members for not asking questions and not looking at outcomes. You prefer to deal in speculation rather than ask responsible people to give you answers. You pay an annual fee? What for? Are you happy not to know anything?
[Post edited 4 Dec 2021 0:39]
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Unsubstantiated conclusion/assumptions/guesses, you've made a fair few of those yourself.
Maybe we'll find out the whole truth in due course. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 14:30 - Dec 4 with 2325 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 09:54 - Dec 4 by Catullus |
Unsubstantiated conclusion/assumptions/guesses, you've made a fair few of those yourself.
Maybe we'll find out the whole truth in due course. |
I deal in assessing 'outcomes' and have to therefore predict the future. You do not deal in outcomes and "hope for the best" as your passive "maybe we will find out the truth one day" indicates. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 14:38 - Dec 4 with 2315 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 00:51 - Dec 4 by Chief |
So which part in particular do you think is incorrect? |
I believe this to be incorrect. Your comment in parenthesis.
Chief - [So again, as you alluded to Vetch there's obviously covert negotiation going on with the trust once again being excluded.]
They were in a face to face meeting and made no complaints. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 14:41 - Dec 4 with 2312 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 14:38 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I believe this to be incorrect. Your comment in parenthesis.
Chief - [So again, as you alluded to Vetch there's obviously covert negotiation going on with the trust once again being excluded.]
They were in a face to face meeting and made no complaints. |
What face to face meeting? | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:11 - Dec 4 with 2295 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 14:41 - Dec 4 by Chief |
What face to face meeting? |
The Structured dialogue out last month. The minutes are open to all. Given on the Planet Swans site. The CLN was discussed and I provided an extract for your understanding. 7 selected fans were invited to attend with the club 'big shots'. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:16 - Dec 4 with 2292 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:11 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The Structured dialogue out last month. The minutes are open to all. Given on the Planet Swans site. The CLN was discussed and I provided an extract for your understanding. 7 selected fans were invited to attend with the club 'big shots'. |
That's a fans forum, not a meeting between shareholders, and not the place for any parties on the forum to dispute what others have said (if indeed it was noticed at the time by the trust representative - on the surface it does seem a fairly innocuous comment).
So that in no way discredits what I've posted further earlier in the thread. Try again. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:31 - Dec 4 with 2283 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:16 - Dec 4 by Chief |
That's a fans forum, not a meeting between shareholders, and not the place for any parties on the forum to dispute what others have said (if indeed it was noticed at the time by the trust representative - on the surface it does seem a fairly innocuous comment).
So that in no way discredits what I've posted further earlier in the thread. Try again. |
The SCST has had face to face formal meeting with the CEO where the CLN was discussed. This is only one example. What ever information they want they can ask the CEO. They talk of an open dialogue. I am not an insider. There are periods before the meeting where unreported discussions a can take place. They also meet at each home game. Relationships are cordial as far as I know.
You are in position to find out if the SCST were invited to join the CLN as a fee paying member. You can also ask if they know who the minor shareholders who contributed are and why this has not be publicised. There will be a new CLN by the sounds of it. Do you think the SCST should contribute? | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:44 - Dec 4 with 2278 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:31 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The SCST has had face to face formal meeting with the CEO where the CLN was discussed. This is only one example. What ever information they want they can ask the CEO. They talk of an open dialogue. I am not an insider. There are periods before the meeting where unreported discussions a can take place. They also meet at each home game. Relationships are cordial as far as I know.
You are in position to find out if the SCST were invited to join the CLN as a fee paying member. You can also ask if they know who the minor shareholders who contributed are and why this has not be publicised. There will be a new CLN by the sounds of it. Do you think the SCST should contribute? |
I'm not sure if you're missing the point or being deliberately obtuse. Either is possible.
Winter saying this yesterday was the first public exposure of it. Up until now Winter has only stated it was Silverstein half, K&L half. No other party involved.
If the trust knew any different, they'd have stated so. But all their correspondence has mirrored what Winter has released. If they knew they'd have no reason to withhold that information.
So I don't know whether Winters been lying previously, or whether he was unaware. Maybe this is a new a development. But if it was it feeds in to what I'm saying - the trust as far as we know (again they'd have no reason to withhold this) weren't approached to weigh in nor consulted on this development.
I could ask, but these minutes were only released yesterday &we play today, so getting an answer this fast isn't realistic. Will the trust even be asked to contribute in this new CLN? They weren't first time round so irrelevant really. Can't really answer whether they should without the whole picture. I'm inclined to say no because I'm skeptical as to how and why another one is needed at all. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:06 - Dec 4 with 2271 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:44 - Dec 4 by Chief |
I'm not sure if you're missing the point or being deliberately obtuse. Either is possible.
Winter saying this yesterday was the first public exposure of it. Up until now Winter has only stated it was Silverstein half, K&L half. No other party involved.
If the trust knew any different, they'd have stated so. But all their correspondence has mirrored what Winter has released. If they knew they'd have no reason to withhold that information.
So I don't know whether Winters been lying previously, or whether he was unaware. Maybe this is a new a development. But if it was it feeds in to what I'm saying - the trust as far as we know (again they'd have no reason to withhold this) weren't approached to weigh in nor consulted on this development.
I could ask, but these minutes were only released yesterday &we play today, so getting an answer this fast isn't realistic. Will the trust even be asked to contribute in this new CLN? They weren't first time round so irrelevant really. Can't really answer whether they should without the whole picture. I'm inclined to say no because I'm skeptical as to how and why another one is needed at all. |
How do you know they were not asked to join the CLN? No news is not proof of exclusion. There have been no complaints. The meeting was a couple of weeks ago.
I recommend you find out the facts before speculating they were excluded. They may get another chance if there is a new CLN. This seems to be pending. Do you think they should contribute or not? The SCST certainly should inform the members their plan to join or not join. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:14 - Dec 4 with 2269 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:06 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
How do you know they were not asked to join the CLN? No news is not proof of exclusion. There have been no complaints. The meeting was a couple of weeks ago.
I recommend you find out the facts before speculating they were excluded. They may get another chance if there is a new CLN. This seems to be pending. Do you think they should contribute or not? The SCST certainly should inform the members their plan to join or not join. |
The trust stated that they knew of the CLN just before the news was released. The news that Silverstein &K&L had loaned the club money. They weren't asked to be a part of it. As I say, has this even been picked up? The minutes only came out yesterday.
How come you're allowed to speculate but I'm not then? You do an awful lot of it. I've come to a conclusion based on the facts that are in the public domain and it's certainly no leap.
Currently there's nothing to join. And no guarantee that even if there is that they'll be even invited to. Read my last post. I don't know whether they should get involved without the full facts. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:52 - Dec 4 with 2251 views | BillyChong |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:14 - Dec 4 by Chief |
The trust stated that they knew of the CLN just before the news was released. The news that Silverstein &K&L had loaned the club money. They weren't asked to be a part of it. As I say, has this even been picked up? The minutes only came out yesterday.
How come you're allowed to speculate but I'm not then? You do an awful lot of it. I've come to a conclusion based on the facts that are in the public domain and it's certainly no leap.
Currently there's nothing to join. And no guarantee that even if there is that they'll be even invited to. Read my last post. I don't know whether they should get involved without the full facts. |
https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/2 good read | | | |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:16 - Dec 4 with 2237 views | Chief |
https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/2
This one is too: "It is disappointing that it seems an agreement has been finalised without any discussion with our representatives"
So which is it Resloven? The trust and the rest of us were kept in the dark about Jenkins/Morgan's involvement from the start?
Or have they since got involved and this change was kept from the trust and us fans by Winter? | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:34 - Dec 4 with 2229 views | Catullus |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 14:30 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I deal in assessing 'outcomes' and have to therefore predict the future. You do not deal in outcomes and "hope for the best" as your passive "maybe we will find out the truth one day" indicates. |
Utter BS, you guess, you assume. You cannot predict the future you merely outline any scenario that supports what you want to happen which is also usually a defence of previous owners, even when they were not part of the OP.
I am passive, because there is nothing I can do to alter the situation. Can you alter the situation? NOPE.
Not that saying maybe we will find out the truth is passive, it is a factual statement because we will or we won't, therefore MAYBE! There's more fact in that that much of what you post. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:47 - Dec 4 with 2218 views | Dewi1jack |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 14:30 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I deal in assessing 'outcomes' and have to therefore predict the future. You do not deal in outcomes and "hope for the best" as your passive "maybe we will find out the truth one day" indicates. |
Just wonder why you try to pass off your "assess the future guesses" or wild speculation as more reasoned people would call it, as fact on here.
The way you have always tried to slag off the Trust and its leadership by purporting your posts to be" in the know"
My assessing of a future to yet be known is somehow, you're related to/ involved in a business with/ friends with or just a lackey/bumchum of a previous shareholder.
A previous shareholder that could really be up Shittuscreekus (thought I'd try a bit of Latin  ) if the Trust win in Court. |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:26 - Dec 4 with 2188 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:16 - Dec 4 by Chief |
https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/2
This one is too: "It is disappointing that it seems an agreement has been finalised without any discussion with our representatives"
So which is it Resloven? The trust and the rest of us were kept in the dark about Jenkins/Morgan's involvement from the start?
Or have they since got involved and this change was kept from the trust and us fans by Winter? |
The Statement states this
{Our most recent information was that discussions were still being continued. It is disappointing that it seems an agreement has been finalised without any discussion with our representatives.}
So the SCST knew in advance that "discussions were still being continued" concerning the CLN. What the SCST knew and did not know is down to what enquires they made last year. There is no indication they were excluded. It seems all shareholders could invest in the loan which is what I would expect.
I could not understand why the other minor sellers were not concerned about dilution. Now I know.
A new loan is pending. Will the SCST be involved or stay out of it like last time? They cannot avoid dilution as their holding is too big for them. It always has been. The strategy was not thought out properly. Too many shares not enough cash for a rainy day. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 18:34]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:38 - Dec 4 with 2167 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:26 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The Statement states this
{Our most recent information was that discussions were still being continued. It is disappointing that it seems an agreement has been finalised without any discussion with our representatives.}
So the SCST knew in advance that "discussions were still being continued" concerning the CLN. What the SCST knew and did not know is down to what enquires they made last year. There is no indication they were excluded. It seems all shareholders could invest in the loan which is what I would expect.
I could not understand why the other minor sellers were not concerned about dilution. Now I know.
A new loan is pending. Will the SCST be involved or stay out of it like last time? They cannot avoid dilution as their holding is too big for them. It always has been. The strategy was not thought out properly. Too many shares not enough cash for a rainy day. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 18:34]
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It literally says they weren't consulted before it being it was finalised and released. And what was released by the club gave absolutely no mention of any other parties other than Silverstein & K&L being involved.
So as I've said all along, the revelation of other shareholders being involved is news to us all including the trust meaning they have been kept out of the loop on it. There is no other conclusion to reach.
I have no idea. They obviously weren't fully involved in what the old cln entailed, so I assume not. There's also no timescale so the court case could be taking place by then, impossible to say. | |
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