| Good Luck UK 12:13 - Dec 12 with 56805 views | PlanetHonneywood |
For the Eze, not the Pugh!
#votewarburton
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| Good Luck UK on 21:45 - Dec 14 with 1621 views | Sharpy36 |
| Good Luck UK on 21:06 - Dec 14 by BrianMcCarthy |
What are your views on how this affects Ireland, border(s) and violence?
Would really like to know what the feeling is now. |
I believe that the border issue is a complete red herring and therefore will not affect those counties that run along the border. In saying that there will have to be some form of customs check, which imo will involve a trusted trader and electronic tracking system. Systems are already in place. |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Good Luck UK on 22:01 - Dec 14 with 1584 views | Harbour |
9 hours today in A&E at Northwick Park Hospital with my wife not well. Staff fantastic but clearly understaffed. It’s 10 Years of the Tories to fix it and they have not. no excuse now Johnson the promises you made at the election need fulfilling. No more lies fudging and false promises. Believe it when I see it. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 22:02 - Dec 14 with 1583 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 21:06 - Dec 14 by BlackCrowe |
Bazza, he should've won in this climeate of carnage but he lost because he was way too far left for everyone including the 'working class'. Not helped that some of his front bench were either utterly hopeless/insane or completely disaligned with the program.
i think he genuinely believes everything his ideaology, so he's not a phoney, it's just that the majority doesn't agree with him.
But ultimately Momentum is the big big problem and possibly will continue to be. As long as they control the membership, nothing will change. labour needs a moderate to stand a chance and i fear momentum will ensure another uber left will get it such as Mcdonnell's protege Long-bailey.
All too depressing, whatever your politics (and especially with this govt) a credible opposition is essential. |
Left and Right is subjective. Everything he advocated is already happening and is a mainstream view in countries from Norway to Korea. If you showed our manifesto to people in Norway that would ask you which centrist wrote it.
Maybe it was too much too soon. Asking people to consciously separate from 40 years of Neo Liberal policies was a big ask. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 22:04 - Dec 14 with 1573 views | stevec |
| Good Luck UK on 19:04 - Dec 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Labour lost because of
A) it’s Brexit stance
B) The false perception of Corbyn.
C) The false perception that it’s Manifesto was unaffordable.
D) A disunified PLP
The manifesto (costs aside) was almost universally popular amongst everyone until we told them it was Labour and Corbyn’s policy.
This isn’t the opinion of a keyboard commentator, this is the opinion of someone who has been knocking on doors for the the last four years from Darlington to Falmouth.
Our failure, and I say I as an employee of the Labour Party who has just lost his job, was a weakness in dealing with false narratives and instead acting the martyr which was only really appreciated by the Labour bubble. By those false narratives I mean:
Labour skinted the country in 2008, Labour's manifesto was unaffordable, Corbyn is a IRA / Hamas / Iranian sympathiser, Corbyn and Labour are antisemitic.
For those Labour supporters who are blaming Corbyn, consider this; Blair (Centre Right), Brown (Centrist), Miliband (Soft Left), all got fewer votes than Corbyn and were all equally vilified in their time, except Blair who only copped it near the end when the Tabloids dropped their support of him. Whoever the next leader is, they will be subject to the same vilification because it is the system that is rigged. Labour under Corbyn tried to work outside the system by developing a Community and Grassroots based organising structure but sadly these take a decade to bed in, while we tried to do it in 3 years and under the phenomenon of Brexit. I truly believe that if the Tories didn’t have ‘Get Brexit Done’ to fall back on it would have been a Labour majority, with Corbyn or otherwise.
Anyway, best of luck to everyone. I am a big believer that as a country we get the government we deserve ultimately. [Post edited 14 Dec 2019 19:29]
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Mind boggling.
It’s like losing 5-0 at home and your manager saying we were the better team. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 22:07 - Dec 14 with 1566 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Good Luck UK on 22:02 - Dec 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Left and Right is subjective. Everything he advocated is already happening and is a mainstream view in countries from Norway to Korea. If you showed our manifesto to people in Norway that would ask you which centrist wrote it.
Maybe it was too much too soon. Asking people to consciously separate from 40 years of Neo Liberal policies was a big ask. |
And its that kind of intellectually superior attitude to the electorate that gave your lot the result they deserved on Thursday. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 22:09 - Dec 14 with 1555 views | kensalriser |
| Good Luck UK on 21:06 - Dec 14 by BrianMcCarthy |
What are your views on how this affects Ireland, border(s) and violence?
Would really like to know what the feeling is now. |
Almost no-one in England gives a fck about Ireland, North or South.
We even had a minister for NI who didn't realise people there voted along sectarian lines. |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 22:09 - Dec 14 with 1553 views | kensalriser |
| Good Luck UK on 22:07 - Dec 14 by Ned_Kennedys |
And its that kind of intellectually superior attitude to the electorate that gave your lot the result they deserved on Thursday. |
Jello would be so disappointed. | |
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| Good Luck UK on 22:29 - Dec 14 with 1515 views | stowmarketrange |
| Good Luck UK on 22:01 - Dec 14 by Harbour |
9 hours today in A&E at Northwick Park Hospital with my wife not well. Staff fantastic but clearly understaffed. It’s 10 Years of the Tories to fix it and they have not. no excuse now Johnson the promises you made at the election need fulfilling. No more lies fudging and false promises. Believe it when I see it. |
People will still fall for it again in 5 years time.The greed comes out in some people at election time,maybe because they don’t need those vital services yet.
The one who do need them are the ones to suffer the most while a lot of people don’t seem to care because it’s not them or their families suffering. |  | | |
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| Good Luck UK on 22:31 - Dec 14 with 1509 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 22:29 - Dec 14 by stowmarketrange |
People will still fall for it again in 5 years time.The greed comes out in some people at election time,maybe because they don’t need those vital services yet.
The one who do need them are the ones to suffer the most while a lot of people don’t seem to care because it’s not them or their families suffering. |
Damien Green was on LBC this morning putting forward his view that health and social care should be paid for through a separate and private insurance system apparently.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 22:34]
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| Good Luck UK on 22:47 - Dec 14 with 1478 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 19:25 - Dec 14 by AnonymousR |
We won't leave in 7 weeks. We will be confirming the agreement to leave in December 2020. That won't stop the PM from coming out of 10 Downing Street on 1st February, stand at a podium and say it's done. I'd bank on him sending the confirmation to the EU and signing it this time.
The problems start from that point on though. As suggested earlier in the thread, since the arrangements from 1/1/21 aren't in place and are HIGHLY unlikely to be in place the really hard work starts now.
For example, Macron has asked for standardisation of UK exports to EU standards. This will be difficult for DexEu to agree with BEIS. The PM has suggested standardisation is on the cards according to Varadkar meaning the softest of super-soft Brexit. As I suggested the other day, horse trading over market access has started - Frederiksen wants access for the Danish fleet to UK waters as a trade-off for access to Denmark.
To retain the 19k existing nurses, will require significant workforce planning. Up to 17k vacancies exist at any time, as well as a substantial increase in de-registration (called invalidation size 2016). With almost a quarter of UK nurses being foreign nationals, the immigration policy and post leave EU registration requirements are likely to place further pressure. It is achievable but very difficult, especially since the removal of the bursary means the trend of new nursing students has been to fall since 2010.
The relationship with Scotland and NI WILL become more strained. NI in particular since the WA will place a border in the Irish Sea for goods and services and it can't wait 2 years. If trouble starts again, the PM will be held accountable as the man who broke the GFA.
The forecasts of the economic impact of leaving which have been published all confirm that the UK will suffer as a result of leaving. The extent will be determined before December 2020 and it's unlikely to be positive reading for the new government.
I'm not sure what 'choose this direction every time' means? As mentioned previously, the popular vote in this election was to remain (as it was in 2017 and in 2018) and the expectation that people who disagree will simply change their mind is naive in the extreme.
People who voted remain know they've lost and congratulations to the people who voted leave. The PM simply needs to get everyone to agree what that leave looks like. Simply. If it means BRINO and the softest of soft EUExits, he is more likely to gain a majority and, with the ERG de-clawed with the larger majority he has a better opportunity. As you expect people to change their minds, is it reasonable to expect arch hard Brexit leavers to change theirs too? |
Lets just wait and see......... |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 22:51 - Dec 14 with 1467 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Good Luck UK on 22:09 - Dec 14 by kensalriser |
Jello would be so disappointed. |
You think? Jello was never one for accepting builshit. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 22:52 - Dec 14 with 1461 views | Northernr |
This idea that people have "fallen for it", don't know what they've voted for, have made big mistake, will come to realise and come round to this way of thinking in the end has to stop. It has to stop.
"The manifesto was good, the manifesto was popular, we're proud of the manifesto". Nooooooooooooo, please stop. Please. Listen to what people have said, learn from it, adapt.
"The MSM are against us, he's been savaged, he hasn't been given a fair hearing." The Conservatives have just won their biggest majority since 1935? They've done that with a leader who has ducked interviews, hidden in fridges, funnelled public money to somebody he was having an affair with, refused to admit how many kids he's got. They've run a campaign that has been shown, very publicly, to be lying to people repeatedly. You had Jacob Rees Mogg saying people had burned to death in homes the Tories had clad with solidified lighter fuel because they were too dim to get out. You had Priti Patel's "it's not the government is it" moment over the food banks. You had a four year old on a pile of coats in a hospital waiting room. All of this got massive coverage, and people still voted for it. Corbyn hasn't lost because Laura Kuennesberg has been a bit mean to him and The Guardian hasn't all been as fawning as Owen Jones.
People in Bolsover, Scunthorpe, Grimsby are voting Tory. This is fcking remarkable. Take it from somebody who lived in these shtholes. This idea that these people are wrong, or stupid, or will come to their senses, is insulting, and patronising, and completely out of touch. They're willingly voting for a party that decimated their communities in the 1980s, and they're doing it because they fcking hate this left wing Labour movement and its leadership so much.
We've had this experiment now, it's been put to the public twice, the public have now very soundly given their verdict. This Momentum, Corbyn, anti-Semitic, stuff is over now. Over.
Please God can we start again with some proper opposition that people feel they can get behind.
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| Good Luck UK on 22:54 - Dec 14 with 1455 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 22:02 - Dec 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Left and Right is subjective. Everything he advocated is already happening and is a mainstream view in countries from Norway to Korea. If you showed our manifesto to people in Norway that would ask you which centrist wrote it.
Maybe it was too much too soon. Asking people to consciously separate from 40 years of Neo Liberal policies was a big ask. |
Baz, its Corbyn .Labour activists have been calling radio stations all day saying his name came up on the door step time and again .
Are you really saying you heard nothing ?
The media didnt photoshop him with known terrorists , the jewish MPs didnt trash their careers out of fun . He gave away 61 billion to the waspi women off the cuff in an interview .
He is not a leader , of a party or a country and from what I know of you on here and a fellow R he isnt worth your shoe leather and time ... IMO | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 22:54 - Dec 14 with 1453 views | Sharpy36 |
| Good Luck UK on 22:31 - Dec 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Damien Green was on LBC this morning putting forward his view that health and social care should be paid for through a separate and private insurance system apparently.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 22:34]
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Farage was/is an advocate of this. His plan would be a voluntary opt out for those in sociaty who could afford it. | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Good Luck UK on 22:55 - Dec 14 with 1443 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 22:54 - Dec 14 by essextaxiboy |
Baz, its Corbyn .Labour activists have been calling radio stations all day saying his name came up on the door step time and again .
Are you really saying you heard nothing ?
The media didnt photoshop him with known terrorists , the jewish MPs didnt trash their careers out of fun . He gave away 61 billion to the waspi women off the cuff in an interview .
He is not a leader , of a party or a country and from what I know of you on here and a fellow R he isnt worth your shoe leather and time ... IMO |
No I heard lots of hatred for Corbyn. I’m just saying it was based on things that arn’t true. [Post edited 14 Dec 2019 22:56]
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| Good Luck UK on 22:57 - Dec 14 with 1427 views | WEAREAWFUL |
Oh dear should of kept my mouth shut,
Momentum bazza is back spinning his crap | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 23:03 - Dec 14 with 1403 views | WEAREAWFUL |
| Good Luck UK on 22:01 - Dec 14 by Harbour |
9 hours today in A&E at Northwick Park Hospital with my wife not well. Staff fantastic but clearly understaffed. It’s 10 Years of the Tories to fix it and they have not. no excuse now Johnson the promises you made at the election need fulfilling. No more lies fudging and false promises. Believe it when I see it. |
Can i just say you do realize its a weekend so not to many staff working the same as in most walks of life, and can i just ask how many people were in the queue in front of you in our free at source nhs | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 23:06 - Dec 14 with 1391 views | stevec |
| Good Luck UK on 22:09 - Dec 14 by kensalriser |
Almost no-one in England gives a fck about Ireland, North or South.
We even had a minister for NI who didn't realise people there voted along sectarian lines. |
That’s probably true.
If Nicola Sturgeon wants Independence for Scotland she’d more likely get it if she asked England to vote on it rather than the people of Scotland.
Likewise Northern Ireland, a United Ireland makes sense for everyone concerned now the troubles are largely in the past. Both Scotland and Ireland are proud nations and its ludicrous in this time we should preside over either.
A self governing England equally makes sense, financing of the NHS and education would become more sustainable as a single nation. Would also enable Scotland to rejoin the EU and Northern Ireland once absorbed back into a United Ireland. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 23:13 - Dec 14 with 1370 views | Sharpy36 |
| Good Luck UK on 23:06 - Dec 14 by stevec |
That’s probably true.
If Nicola Sturgeon wants Independence for Scotland she’d more likely get it if she asked England to vote on it rather than the people of Scotland.
Likewise Northern Ireland, a United Ireland makes sense for everyone concerned now the troubles are largely in the past. Both Scotland and Ireland are proud nations and its ludicrous in this time we should preside over either.
A self governing England equally makes sense, financing of the NHS and education would become more sustainable as a single nation. Would also enable Scotland to rejoin the EU and Northern Ireland once absorbed back into a United Ireland. |
Welcome to my world | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Good Luck UK on 23:19 - Dec 14 with 1363 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 23:06 - Dec 14 by stevec |
That’s probably true.
If Nicola Sturgeon wants Independence for Scotland she’d more likely get it if she asked England to vote on it rather than the people of Scotland.
Likewise Northern Ireland, a United Ireland makes sense for everyone concerned now the troubles are largely in the past. Both Scotland and Ireland are proud nations and its ludicrous in this time we should preside over either.
A self governing England equally makes sense, financing of the NHS and education would become more sustainable as a single nation. Would also enable Scotland to rejoin the EU and Northern Ireland once absorbed back into a United Ireland. |
Thats made me rethink the Union problem , Just because its old and we have close ties doesnt mean that it has to go on for ever.
Would it really be so bad if we went our own ways ?
We could still be allies and close friends. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 23:26 - Dec 14 with 1348 views | stevec |
| Good Luck UK on 22:52 - Dec 14 by Northernr |
This idea that people have "fallen for it", don't know what they've voted for, have made big mistake, will come to realise and come round to this way of thinking in the end has to stop. It has to stop.
"The manifesto was good, the manifesto was popular, we're proud of the manifesto". Nooooooooooooo, please stop. Please. Listen to what people have said, learn from it, adapt.
"The MSM are against us, he's been savaged, he hasn't been given a fair hearing." The Conservatives have just won their biggest majority since 1935? They've done that with a leader who has ducked interviews, hidden in fridges, funnelled public money to somebody he was having an affair with, refused to admit how many kids he's got. They've run a campaign that has been shown, very publicly, to be lying to people repeatedly. You had Jacob Rees Mogg saying people had burned to death in homes the Tories had clad with solidified lighter fuel because they were too dim to get out. You had Priti Patel's "it's not the government is it" moment over the food banks. You had a four year old on a pile of coats in a hospital waiting room. All of this got massive coverage, and people still voted for it. Corbyn hasn't lost because Laura Kuennesberg has been a bit mean to him and The Guardian hasn't all been as fawning as Owen Jones.
People in Bolsover, Scunthorpe, Grimsby are voting Tory. This is fcking remarkable. Take it from somebody who lived in these shtholes. This idea that these people are wrong, or stupid, or will come to their senses, is insulting, and patronising, and completely out of touch. They're willingly voting for a party that decimated their communities in the 1980s, and they're doing it because they fcking hate this left wing Labour movement and its leadership so much.
We've had this experiment now, it's been put to the public twice, the public have now very soundly given their verdict. This Momentum, Corbyn, anti-Semitic, stuff is over now. Over.
Please God can we start again with some proper opposition that people feel they can get behind.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Momentum are a cult and won’t be listening to anyone.
I look at decent people like Alan Johnson, tearing his hair out with that lot. Frank Field, Kate Hoey, all intelligent, yet they can’t lay a finger on them. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 23:28 - Dec 14 with 1335 views | Northernr |
| Good Luck UK on 23:26 - Dec 14 by stevec |
Momentum are a cult and won’t be listening to anyone.
I look at decent people like Alan Johnson, tearing his hair out with that lot. Frank Field, Kate Hoey, all intelligent, yet they can’t lay a finger on them. |
Hoey is a fcking moron but I love Alan Johnson and thought he was absolutely Bob on the other night. He speaks for me. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 23:34 - Dec 14 with 1310 views | nix |
| Good Luck UK on 22:55 - Dec 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
No I heard lots of hatred for Corbyn. I’m just saying it was based on things that arn’t true. [Post edited 14 Dec 2019 22:56]
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Not all of it though. It's not just the antisemitism it's the reducing IHT to such a low threshold, it's the renationalising everything all at once, it's the attacking private landlords. And yes, it's the belief that his manifesto was unsustainable. In some ways it's okay for the Tories to promise the earth, because fairly or unfairly, they've got the image of protecting the economy. Labour, in order to win have to promote a prudent image, a government that will balance the books.
Like Alan Johnson said, him and his cronies came across as a load of student activists rather than a credible leadership. They listened to each other and their supporters rather than to the people they wanted to win over. You can't just appeal to your dyed in the wool supporters, however much you might wish this. The last radical Labour government was Harold Wilson in the 70s. The Thatcher years changed the political landscape with traditional labour voters moving towards Tories with their promises of owning their council homes and lowering taxes.
In order to win elections, the Labour Party now has to appeal to a broader church, be seen as modern, smart and fiscally astute. Diane Abbot's disastrous inability to present figures and understand her own budget as shadow Home Secretary being a particular nadir. Corbyn's failure to understand this is part of his overall failure. It's difficult to understand how someone can be so blind and deaf to how they are perceived. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 23:36 - Dec 14 with 1312 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
I know from talking to many of my family and friends both Con and Labour, the great free give away of the Labour manifesto was seen as a bribe far too big too good to be true.
It all sounded great and without a doubt, some of it is much needed but this country has never been far left 83 proved that.
The labour party believed it's own hype, so assured yet manager to lose 59 seats in just 2 years without even being in power!
As for blaming the press well, the BBC has been the most pro-remain yet here we are leaving. |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 23:42 - Dec 14 with 1280 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
It's a shame the BBC got rid of This Week.
Andrew Neil, Michael Portillo Alan Johnson talked a lot of sense. | |
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