| Chair jailed for a year 13:00 - Feb 23 with 53087 views | DevonWhite |
According to The Sun. |  | | |  |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:10 - Feb 23 with 2875 views | Antti_Heinola |
A lot of stuff here based on guesswork. A lot of criticism of Chair of 'not taking it seriously' - how do any of us know that? One thing we do know is his legal counsel changed very late on. It's possible Chair, as basically anyone would, was following advice from his lawyer, and then at a very late stage perhaps realised that strategy was not a good one, and he was replaced by a better (pricier) lawyer. I don't know, but there's a lot of assumptions being made on this thread. |  |
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| Chair jailed for a year on 23:13 - Feb 23 with 2863 views | Monkey_Roots |
| Chair jailed for a year on 22:47 - Feb 23 by BerlinR |
Kind of strange subject to be making my first post on but I live in Germany and know a bit about the German legal system and suspect that the Belgian system is more like the German one than the British system.
In Germany, when a trial takes place, the prosecutor submits the prosecution file to the court and the defence lawyer submits a defence file. The judges go through both files and decides what witnesses to call and question to clear up any contradictions/arguments between the two cases.
The defendant does not enter any plea - the system works on the presumption that the defendant is innocent until proven otherwise so the defendant does not have to say they are not guilty. If the defendant admits the offence, this admission is simply treated as evidence of guilt in the trial.
While the prosecutor and defence lawyer can also ask questions of the witnesses (and in serious cases the victim may also be represented by a lawyer who can also ask questions) most of the questioning is done by the judges. Once all the witnesses have been heard, the various lawyers can sum up their arguments and push any legal points they think are relevant. The judges then withdraw to consider both the prosecution and defence cases and reach a verdict.
In cases where the judges find the defendant guilty, the chief judge reads out a statement of what the sentence is and giving reasons for the findings. However, whilst the guilty verdict is recorded immediately, the sentence is then automatically referred to a second court for review and ratification and it is not immediately activated as it would be in a British court.
If the defendant (now convict) lodges an appeal, the appeal and review of sentence are effectively dealt with simultaneously by the same court. If the sentence of the first court is prison and this is ratified by the second court, that is when the sentence becomes active. The convict can be held on remand between the first court imposing the sentence and the second court reviewing it, but often, the first court will release the defendant pending the review/appeal in the second court. It would not surprise me in the least if the situation in Belgium is very similar.
If so, that would mean that Chair has been found guilty and given an initial sentence of 2 years in prison (with the second year suspended) but that he is currently free while the sentence goes through the review process and any appeal he submits is dealt with.
If the situation is the same/similar to that in Germany, the second court could reduce the sentence (if it upholds the guilty verdict) but could also impose a harsher sentence.
Hope this helps. |
Blah blah blah… state your cheese. |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:20 - Feb 23 with 2800 views | Northernr |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:10 - Feb 23 by Antti_Heinola |
A lot of stuff here based on guesswork. A lot of criticism of Chair of 'not taking it seriously' - how do any of us know that? One thing we do know is his legal counsel changed very late on. It's possible Chair, as basically anyone would, was following advice from his lawyer, and then at a very late stage perhaps realised that strategy was not a good one, and he was replaced by a better (pricier) lawyer. I don't know, but there's a lot of assumptions being made on this thread. |
And by the papers, happy at lunchtime to just splash "Ilias Chair is in prison" across national newspapers.
So much conjecture and guesswork all over the show. |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:21 - Feb 23 with 2797 views | Hunterhoop |
| Chair jailed for a year on 22:47 - Feb 23 by BerlinR |
Kind of strange subject to be making my first post on but I live in Germany and know a bit about the German legal system and suspect that the Belgian system is more like the German one than the British system.
In Germany, when a trial takes place, the prosecutor submits the prosecution file to the court and the defence lawyer submits a defence file. The judges go through both files and decides what witnesses to call and question to clear up any contradictions/arguments between the two cases.
The defendant does not enter any plea - the system works on the presumption that the defendant is innocent until proven otherwise so the defendant does not have to say they are not guilty. If the defendant admits the offence, this admission is simply treated as evidence of guilt in the trial.
While the prosecutor and defence lawyer can also ask questions of the witnesses (and in serious cases the victim may also be represented by a lawyer who can also ask questions) most of the questioning is done by the judges. Once all the witnesses have been heard, the various lawyers can sum up their arguments and push any legal points they think are relevant. The judges then withdraw to consider both the prosecution and defence cases and reach a verdict.
In cases where the judges find the defendant guilty, the chief judge reads out a statement of what the sentence is and giving reasons for the findings. However, whilst the guilty verdict is recorded immediately, the sentence is then automatically referred to a second court for review and ratification and it is not immediately activated as it would be in a British court.
If the defendant (now convict) lodges an appeal, the appeal and review of sentence are effectively dealt with simultaneously by the same court. If the sentence of the first court is prison and this is ratified by the second court, that is when the sentence becomes active. The convict can be held on remand between the first court imposing the sentence and the second court reviewing it, but often, the first court will release the defendant pending the review/appeal in the second court. It would not surprise me in the least if the situation in Belgium is very similar.
If so, that would mean that Chair has been found guilty and given an initial sentence of 2 years in prison (with the second year suspended) but that he is currently free while the sentence goes through the review process and any appeal he submits is dealt with.
If the situation is the same/similar to that in Germany, the second court could reduce the sentence (if it upholds the guilty verdict) but could also impose a harsher sentence.
Hope this helps. |
Thanks, BerlinR. Do you have a rough idea of how long it takes for the second court to complete their review/the appeal? Feels like quite a relevant piece of information. Are we talking weeks or months? |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:23 - Feb 23 with 2771 views | Hooparoo |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:20 - Feb 23 by Northernr |
And by the papers, happy at lunchtime to just splash "Ilias Chair is in prison" across national newspapers.
So much conjecture and guesswork all over the show. |
Like anyone he’s entitled to the presumption of innocence but IF he is guilty of such a serious assault that could’ve killed the bloke then he can fck right off and should never set foot in LR ever again. |  |
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| Chair jailed for a year on 23:24 - Feb 23 with 2766 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Thanks, BerlinR.
Important info. |  |
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| Chair jailed for a year on 23:29 - Feb 23 with 2715 views | Superhoops2808 |
I have waded through all the pages of this thread and one thing stands out to me, is how people lurch from one end of the spectrum to the other
From well he is guilty throw the book at him
To then, well maybe the press dont have it right
To then, Surely he is innocent until proven guilty.
Unbelievable as has already been said how many self appointed law experts we have here particularly in Belgium law!! |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:37 - Feb 23 with 2661 views | colinallcars |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:29 - Feb 23 by Superhoops2808 |
I have waded through all the pages of this thread and one thing stands out to me, is how people lurch from one end of the spectrum to the other
From well he is guilty throw the book at him
To then, well maybe the press dont have it right
To then, Surely he is innocent until proven guilty.
Unbelievable as has already been said how many self appointed law experts we have here particularly in Belgium law!! |
I think what's made it worse is that we, most of us, thought that he was a cut above a lot of the tossers we've had on the books the last few years. Hopefully that's correct and this turns out to be not as indicated by the trash media that have so far depicted it. |  | | |
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| Chair jailed for a year on 23:38 - Feb 23 with 2648 views | FredManRave |
ChairGate |  |
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| Chair jailed for a year on 23:43 - Feb 23 with 2596 views | ChrisNW6 |
Where's your tool | | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:47 - Feb 23 with 2571 views | BerlinR |
Thanks, BerlinR. Do you have a rough idea of how long it takes for the second court to complete their review/the appeal? Feels like quite a relevant piece of information. Are we talking weeks or months?
Don't know about in Belgium (don't claim to know 100% that the system in Belgium is similar to Germany's but think it is likely) but the review7appeal generally takes months here. | | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:47 - Feb 23 with 2544 views | stainrods_elbow |
Is Chair still included in the 'moving chairs on the Titanic' trope of recent posts?
I guess there's no 'arm in it, if so.
I'll get all my overgarments. |  |
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| Chair jailed for a year on 23:50 - Feb 23 with 2542 views | BerlinR |
Blah blah blah… state your cheese.
Thanks for your valuable feedback. | | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:54 - Feb 23 with 2500 views | ChrisNW6 |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:50 - Feb 23 by BerlinR |
Blah blah blah… state your cheese.
Thanks for your valuable feedback. |
For a long time lurker you missed rule number one.... Cheese please | | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:59 - Feb 23 with 2477 views | BucksRanger |
How come double jeopardy doesn't enter into this? If the French legal system found there was no case to be answered, why does the Belgian legal system have the right to issue a prison sentence? |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 00:10 - Feb 24 with 2423 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
Read everything so far and still have no clue whats happening at midnight before the biggest game of our season .
If Chair is on trial for hitting someone in the head with a rock then its attemped murder and there is no way he is getting off with a 2 year sentance with 1 year basically thrown away.
If the victim tried to settle for that tiny amount of money it makes it more bizzare because the attorneys will simply take most of it and he will be left with a pittance amoun
Either way its a nasty incident and QPR are bang in the middle right now | | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 00:36 - Feb 24 with 2332 views | Monkey_Roots |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:50 - Feb 23 by BerlinR |
Blah blah blah… state your cheese.
Thanks for your valuable feedback. |
I upvoted your post, it was incredibly helpful and I think we all appreciate your insight, honestly- no bs, you came in solid with your first post…
BUT
You must state your favourite cheese, or I’m going to put on a green bikini, and the usually calm and rational Brian McCarthy is going to go a bit fúckin mental and stove your nut in with a rock. | | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 00:42 - Feb 24 with 2299 views | NorthLondonR |
| Chair jailed for a year on 23:43 - Feb 23 by ChrisNW6 |
Where's your tool |
Someone has to turn this into a gif or whatever it's called |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 00:44 - Feb 24 with 2256 views | stainrods_elbow |
Perhaps Ilias could step onto the pitch before the start of play tomorrow, suitably stony-faced, and talk about how it feels being between a rock and a hard place. He's a very skull-ful player, after all.
I'd get my coat if I wasn't already wearing it. [Post edited 24 Feb 0:45]
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| Chair jailed for a year on 01:43 - Feb 24 with 2147 views | Match82 |
| Chair jailed for a year on 22:23 - Feb 23 by SydneyRs |
How come the rock can hit someone with a chair and it's no problem?
One rule for one, one for another. |
Underrated comment  |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 03:53 - Feb 24 with 1990 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Chair jailed for a year on 21:35 - Feb 23 by ShotKneesHoop |
If Ilias objects to the sentence -and it fails, then he could get the Electric Chair.
I'll get my coat, hat stand, grandfather clock, chaise longue, pouf, tall boys, short boys, sofa, so good etc.
I feel sorry for Marti, what has he done to inherit this crock of merde profonde? [Post edited 23 Feb 21:35]
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Me too, very difficult situation for him and QPR. Both
really are caught between a rock and a hard case. |  |
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| Chair jailed for a year on 06:14 - Feb 24 with 1844 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Chair jailed for a year on 19:47 - Feb 23 by numptydumpty |
It said he was critical and in hospital for period of time
That's in the reports but I like everybody no idea what's true and what's not.
It said he was critical and for me that's intensive care. Certainly wasn't stating anything as facts.
Happened years ago. Could have settled out of court but trial that he never attended and now supposedly jailed. Not making anything up. Just saying what was reported.
Sounds nonsense. Because if a man had hit someone so hard with a rock that the man ended in a critical condition, he would be interviewed and held in custody. I might be stupid, but hitting someone with a rock is not the done thing.
Whatever it is or isn't this all doesn't seem real
I thought this was nonsense when it first came out and surprised this being reported as facts but if he did do it, I would not want him at our football club but its all seems somerhing very strange going on that is hard to fathom on so many levels. [Post edited 23 Feb 20:05]
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I’m not having a go here but you absolutely said earlier on this thread - quite brazenly and without citation - “the victim was in intensive care with fractured skull - potentially could have been life threatening.”
People could and probably will read this thread, read someone stating that as fact and repeat it to their mates / on their message boards etc etc. And before you know it there are a whole host of people who believe it as fact as they won’t bother to read the details themselves.
The only quotes available are from ‘the Prosecutor’, who has twice used the words “a long time” to describe the length of recovery. Well what’s a long time? That’s entirely subjective. Relative to being discharged immediately, 3 hours is a ‘long time’.
Nobody here is getting any details from medical reports brought to trial by impartial doctors. They’re getting it from the claims of the prosecutor; the very definition of only knowing one side of the story.
We really do barely know anything here - I don’t think there’s any reason to, nor any good to come of adding to the conjecture with assumption. |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 07:05 - Feb 24 with 1706 views | Spaceman_P |
at least no-one decked chair.... I'll get my coat!!! |  | | |
| Chair jailed for a year on 07:57 - Feb 24 with 1482 views | BerlinR |
| Chair jailed for a year on 00:36 - Feb 24 by Monkey_Roots |
I upvoted your post, it was incredibly helpful and I think we all appreciate your insight, honestly- no bs, you came in solid with your first post…
BUT
You must state your favourite cheese, or I’m going to put on a green bikini, and the usually calm and rational Brian McCarthy is going to go a bit fúckin mental and stove your nut in with a rock. |
Ah well, if I really have to say, then it's Bavarian Blue. | | | |
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